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Max11

Not enjoying FM18 - Defending is terrible

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Hello, I have already managed three or four different teams with medium and higher expectations both in SkyBet Championship and in Scotland premiership. Every time same results, defenders wander like idiots in the pitch, while my forwards even if strong like Mitrovic or Angulo at Sunderland can't hit the target even if with no GK in front of them. 

Any tip on how to cure this guys? 

4 stars coaches always in my staff. we have more o less the top coaches everytime! 

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Observe what the AI does. A lot more instances of full backs with defensive duties this year. Give it a go - it helped me out a lot.

Also... time. Give it time. Your players need time to build up understanding between them. In the tactic above, only your two CMs have a good understanding.

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ok... after posting this thread players seem now to have understood something and we are through 3 victories...... magic!

 

i've set a defensive midfielder more, the other three midfielders in a single line, one striker, and one free wing moving on the left or right channel depending on opponents weaknesses... let's hope this keeps working!

Edited by Max11

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1 hour ago, ajsr1982 said:

In the tactic above, only your two CMs have a good understanding.

That's a somewhat simplistic view.  All we know from that screen shot is that only the two CMs have a green line between them.  These new partnerships lines may be useful in places but they by no means give us the whole picture, so drawing conclusions based on just that may not be accurate.

Have a look at the screenie below - just going by the green lines, my midfielders are in a world of their own and nobody likes my striker.  Yet my AP runs the show and my RMD / CF constantly feed off each other.

Anyway, back to topic, 

1 hour ago, Max11 said:

ok... after posting this thread players seem now to have understood something and we are through 3 victories...... magic!

 

i've set a defensive midfielder more, the other three midfielders in a single line, one striker, and one free wing moving on the left or right channel depending on opponents weaknesses... let's hope this keeps working!

Good stuff :thup:.  Keep an eye on how things progress.  Don't be afraid to pause / rewind things you miss or even go back and review matches you're already played.

9.png

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17 minutes ago, herne79 said:

That's a somewhat simplistic view.  All we know from that screen shot is that only the two CMs have a green line between them.  These new partnerships lines may be useful in places but they by no means give us the whole picture, so drawing conclusions based on just that may not be accurate.

Have a look at the screenie below - just going by the green lines, my midfielders are in a world of their own and nobody likes my striker.  Yet my AP runs the show and my RMD / CF constantly feed off each other.

Anyway, back to topic, 

Good stuff :thup:.  Keep an eye on how things progress.  Don't be afraid to pause / rewind things you miss or even go back and review matches you're already played.

9.png

Crossed wires, I think.

My point was that his team looked like it hadn't played together for very long, as opposed to yours where I can see strong relationships right across the piece.

Thus, I was urging him to give things time to bed in before writing off his tactic.

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Yep!! I'm having similar issues. Rugani and Romagnoli (both have strong understanding) as CD (def), or BPD (def), with a defensive DLP in front of them. The DCs wander, or are caught flat-footed by simple balls through the middle or over the top, even against lower opposition. Very frustrating.

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Yeah I kind of agree on some stuff.

Defenders are pretty bad in general. They often don't react (start moving very late for no reason), they very easily stop marking their opponents, they tend to leave their position to chase the ball around even if you specifically ask them not to You can make it better to a certain extend, but there are still things that don't really make sense.

About attacking, the big issue I have in that game is shots going 10m away from the goal. How many times does a shot misses the target by 10+ IRL? Not that much. Yet in the game, you can can see it easily half a dozen times in a game (and not only our team, the opponent has it's fair share too). It's not realistic. That's one the biggest things I've notived in that game, since my first match played. I really think this should be corrected in a patch.

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Thanks everyone for helping ... attacking is another big issue! How to score more goals? Sometimes strikers look like other sports players!!!! :mad:

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13 minutes ago, Max11 said:

Thanks everyone for helping ... attacking is another big issue! How to score more goals? Sometimes strikers look like other sports players!!!! :mad:

I think the starting point here is how do you want to score goals? Then consider if your players have the qualities to create the chances and score goals like you plan for. 

I see you have Mitrovic as your striker who I believe is good in the air. So my game plan would be to get crosses into the box for him to attack. Now you need to set roles and duties that will help get the ball wide and get those crosses in. You’d also want to think about what further support you can get in the box for Mitrovic.  

My Italian isn’t great so I can’t tell if your current set up is good for this or not. Either way you need to ensure your players attributes match the game plan. If they don’t as you have more technical skilful players instead of tall strong strikers, then maybe a different plan is needed. 

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il y a 6 minutes, LordKaivalya a dit :

The strikers do miss a ton of one v ones. It's hella frustrating. It's like they can only pull off tap ins.

I'm glad to read that because I bought a striker who has everything to crush opponents, yet he misses 4 1v1 per game and scored 4 goals in 5 months

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Dunno about one on ones. It likely isn't fully accurate. But one on ones are the most dramatically overrated chance types. You heard that here first because you likely follow ****** media and football punditry overjazzing things to sell football as an amazing prime time product of entertainment. Plus play too much Fifa. Outside of a bonafide penalty, the keeper edges this every time.  If they would be converting 1 in 3, everything will be fine, and that is for a class forward for his level.. At no angle whatsoever, more like 1 in 5. Which both are already dramatically better than your average shot of 1 in 10, and even to better that the forward has to be in range, centrally in front of the goal, not marked. Football scorelines are this low because forwards on every level more often simply blast it. Defending is easier than attacking, which is fundamental to any sport, football in particular, as those funny guys opt to score a ball with their feet, rather than their hands. Ronaldo is currently on a run of scoring 2 goals in 70 shots in the league. Still didn't keep those Fifa bobbins from handing him out their award or anything. It's always Fifa, innit. ;)

Wayward shots, your typical Serie A match day two weeks ago clickie here. Part of the problem FM has is that they look as if players actually mean that more often than not. Whereas in football it's oft visibly the result of a forward struggling to keep balance at pace, losing it at taking the shot, or struggling to control it (sometimes also connected to pitch conditions or actually shoulder charging / body contact between the forward and defender, which FM hasn't yet sussed quite yet either, but only considers if a defender is near the forward to simulate "pressure"). None of this belongs to the tactics forums in particular, mind. Though both are obviously influenced by tactics from both teams competing, including the one on ones you may create (tap-ins are fully justified, dramatically better chances, naturally, same as such cut backs, as they actually fully-on handicap the keeper no less as it's also a first time shot changing direction of the ball instantly by about 348734837 degrees, whereas this type of one on one in particular has always completely edged it for him in particular as he can close the angles quickly).

There's been a few tweaking going on. But this never much hugely changed from my experience, in-game, anyway.

Edited by Svenc

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Hi, I’m doing a save with Monaco. I’m in pre season but I have already noticed a HUGE defensive flaw. My defenders keep stepping out to press an opposition striker when they have the ball, leaving an attacking mid to make a run and their striker to find him. My back line is two BPD, with Jemerson on stopper duty. My team instructions don’t ask for a high press yet this still happens. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

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20 minutes ago, SmileFaceGamer said:

Hi, I’m doing a save with Monaco. I’m in pre season but I have already noticed a HUGE defensive flaw. My defenders keep stepping out to press an opposition striker when they have the ball, leaving an attacking mid to make a run and their striker to find him. My back line is two BPD, with Jemerson on stopper duty. My team instructions don’t ask for a high press yet this still happens. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

What does a stopper duty do?

Further, have you set any additional closing down instructions from either using a Team Instruction and/or an aggressive mentality?  Do any of your central defenders have a high Aggression attribute (which can act like a natural press)?

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1 minute ago, herne79 said:

What does a stopper duty do?

Further, have you set any additional closing down instructions from either using a Team Instruction and/or an aggressive mentality?  Do any of your central defenders have a high Aggression attribute (which can act like a natural press)?

No, no closing down instructions. I’m not sure in aggression of my CB’s, but this is an issue in all my saves whichever I’ve tried. The stopper is a bit of a pressing CB, which is fine when he doesn’t leave huge gaps when Glik isn’t covering or...

Wait I have found my own solution I think. Glik on cover to allow Jemerson to do his thing. Mabye try toning down the mentality to standard

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14 hours ago, SmileFaceGamer said:

No, no closing down instructions. I’m not sure in aggression of my CB’s, but this is an issue in all my saves whichever I’ve tried. The stopper is a bit of a pressing CB, which is fine when he doesn’t leave huge gaps when Glik isn’t covering or...

Wait I have found my own solution I think. Glik on cover to allow Jemerson to do his thing. Mabye try toning down the mentality to standard

So you say to one defender to press the player on the ball aggressively and slightly earlier than normal and you say to the other defender stay on cover. In my eyes you are increasing the gap that Jemerson leaves behind him because Glik stays further back. I'm not a big fan of the stopper role - but I think it works best with 3 at the back. Now it just becomes a 1 v 1 or even a 1 v 2. 

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17 hours ago, SmileFaceGamer said:

Hi, I’m doing a save with Monaco. I’m in pre season but I have already noticed a HUGE defensive flaw. My defenders keep stepping out to press an opposition striker when they have the ball, leaving an attacking mid to make a run and their striker to find him. My back line is two BPD, with Jemerson on stopper duty. My team instructions don’t ask for a high press yet this still happens. Any help would be greatly appreciated 

Don't use a stopper duty unless you want him to step out of the line. The closing down system in FM doesn't really consider the spaces they leave behind, so manage this yourself. I always have my center backs on closing down less or much less because otherwise they will do this sort of stuff.

And to comment more generally on the topic, yes the center backs in the game are complete idiots. Their body positioning is poor, they don't move laterally to cover wide areas, they react slowly and they turn slower than the Titanic did. But this is not an FM18 issue, it's been there for years, I'm just patiently waiting for them to improve the defensive side of things and give us more control over our defensive shapes, positioning and movement. Since you know there is a problem, you need to consider it in your decision making, e.g. much higher defensive lines are usually suicidal since even the fastest of defenders are not prepared to turn and chase balls over the top.

The most important thing though is the space behind fullbacks. Everyone likes to use attacking fullbacks/wingbacks all the time, and then wonder why their defence is leaking when there is no one to cover the wide areas, especially with crossing still being so OP in FM18. If you decide to use an attacking fullback, either accept the (huge) risks or then make changes to cover those wide areas. Maybe use three center backs so they cover more space laterally? Or use a defensive midfielder/CM on a defend duty on the same side, who can move and cover those areas when the fullback is high up the pitch. Or maybe a defensive winger? Regardless, I use attacking fullbacks sparingly just for this reason, the space behind them is a killer and in many situations what they bring to the attacking side of things is not worth the gaps in defence that they leave.

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19 hours ago, herne79 said:

 Do any of your central defenders have a high Aggression attribute (which can act like a natural press)?

In all the years I've been playing FM I never knew that. I'm glad you posted this but it's incredibly frustrating when the game is so vague sometimes. You would never be able to tell that from looking at the ME. 

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48 minutes ago, Colorado said:

In all the years I've been playing FM I never knew that. I'm glad you posted this but it's incredibly frustrating when the game is so vague sometimes. You would never be able to tell that from looking at the ME. 

Aggression encourages players to "get stuck in" to the action.  This is how the Online Manual describes it:

"This reflects a player’s attitude in terms of playing mentality but is not necessarily a dirtiness indicator. A more aggressive player will look to involve himself in every incident and get stuck in, perhaps at the expense of a yellow card or two. A less aggressive player may shy away from situations and merely drop into his comfort zone, waiting for the play to find him."

So lots of Aggression in central defenders (to continue the example) may be a cause of stepping up out of line to make challenges - and thus potentially leaving space behind.  When you play with a Defensive Midfielder this may not be quite so noticeable as you have that defensive screen, but I personally avoid high Aggression in a central defender if I'm not using a DM.

As an aside, this is why I favour high levels of Aggression if using an aggressive role, such as a BWM.  I don't really see the point of using a role that actively looks to "get stuck in" if the player's attribute will discourage that behaviour.

And avoid "dirty" players at all costs, especially if they have high levels of Aggression.  Look for coach/scout reports that indicate "high levels of competitiveness" - that's a dirty player :thup:.

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