Is it me, or is it just to mind numbing with all the player interactions?

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 hours ago, tajj7 said:

I have guys with 4 years left on their contracts who only last season signed a new £120k a week contract that pretty much doubled their previous wages and suddenly they want more money again. 

Players will normally give you a reason for this. Are there other clubs interested? Is the player's salary lower than the squad average? Have you recently bumped them up from a first team player to a key player? It's very rare a player will approach you and simply demand a new contract for no reason whatsoever. If that's what's happening, sounds bugged, so you'd do well to raise it. 

[scass]

On 30/11/2017 at 09:27, forameuss said:

Well most of my issues are more a general malaise against where the game is going, and how it takes more time while I have less time available in my life to play.  I could give feedback that I don't like that, but it's not as if there's anything wrong, it's just the way the game is going, and at some point there may well come a time where I outgrow it or it outgrows me.  And that's fine.  

But if you're wanting specifics, FM15 was the last game I really enjoyed, probably down to still being involved in FMCU.  FM16 and FM17 I found pretty tedious, and just couldn't get into them to any great degree.  I had one long save, but probably played it more because I was documenting it and it was popular on FMCU (won thread of the year in the awards I believe).  Any further saves I started I would have great ideas for, but once I actually got into the game it was just...meh.  Nothing in particular jumping out, but it was what it was.  More specific issues

- International Management is not fleshed out at all.  Kind of suits as it can mean a much faster and simpler game, but there's plenty of things they could add to make it a nicer experience
- Scottish leagues seem a bit odd in their research
- The editor is still pretty neglected
- They continue to avoid making some kind of API for community work, despite plans to do so for FML in the closing months of it
- Dialogue options are still a bit lacking and won't allow me to say what I want to say to players
- Directors of Football still aren't very well fleshed out
- The game is taking up more and more time to do "properly"

But, like I said, none of them are really bad enough for me to be as raging as some seem to get.  There's things they could fix in there, but there's nothing that hasn't been raised elsewhere, and there's nothing that makes me angry enough to want to do parts of my day job for something that's supposed to be entertainment.  So I don't complain too much, because you kind of forfeit your right to complain if you're not willing to follow the avenues there are available for fixing it.

And finally we'll get to what you said.  Once again you're falling into the trap of believing that because I'm disagreeing with someone criticising the game, that I'm blindly defending it.  That I'm suppressing criticism.  That's laughable, to be honest. 

Your criticisms seem to have little to do with the match to match playing of the game, and concerns that ineternational football and DoF are not fleshed out, Mine are to do with the fact that the straightforward playing of the game is unenjoyable because the matches look like pub football, with massive clearances, even when you've told a team to play out of defence; the fact that the offside aspects is (a) too frequent, resulting in a game in which the highlights are dominated by offside decisions (b) wrong - offside in the real world is not now called until a player touches the ball, which they have ignored; (c) it isn't called when possession goes back to the defending side, and they start a break - have had countless breaks two against one and three against two stopped so that the ball can go back to my penalty area for a pointless free kick; the tactics screen is broken - the player dropdown doesn't refresh, and drag and drop doesn't work. The dynamics is abysmally conceived, and any interaction has little effect on the players.

Your  concern is about where the game is going, Myconcern is about where my money went - at the moment into a shell game for a games company who release a shoddy product. In another thread you said that calling the development lazy "insulting" to the development team. You need to get into your head that it's a comment dedicated customers are entitled to make about something they've paid money for. Which is more than you have done to entitle you to insult me by calling my comments laughable.

[forameuss]

12 hours ago, scass said:

Your criticisms seem to have little to do with the match to match playing of the game, and concerns that ineternational football and DoF are not fleshed out, Mine are to do with the fact that the straightforward playing of the game

"You're so relentlessly positive, I bet you don't have any criticisms with the game!"
"Here's some..."
"They're the wrong criticisms cos they're not what I think is bad!  waaaaah!

 

12 hours ago, scass said:

Your  concern is about where the game is going, Myconcern is about where my money went - at the moment into a shell game for a games company who release a shoddy product. In another thread you said that calling the development lazy "insulting" to the development team. You need to get into your head that it's a comment dedicated customers are entitled to make about something they've paid money for. Which is more than you have done to entitle you to insult me by calling my comments laughable.

Don't tell me where my concerns are.  And I don't need to get anything "into my head".  All you're doing is regurgitating empty "the customer is always right" sentiments.  Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them.  It remains one of the saddest aspects of this forum that it used to be a place where you could talk quite closely with the developers, get a good idea of their vision and the whys of certain decisions.  Now they steer well clear, and it's mostly down to attitudes like this.  Good job.

And finally, if you paid money and now regret it, well that's kind of your own fault really, isn't it?  If I felt I had any reservations about whether I'd waste my money, I'd probably have tried the free demo first.  No-one forced you to spend your money, but you did it anyway.  Maybe you'll be a bit more careful next time?  Seems like you'd have saved yourself a lot of grief.

And finally again, I'll stop saying the content was laughable when it stops making me laugh.  Suggesting I'm suppressing criticism - when I have plenty to criticise - was funny.  Ergo, laughable.  

[enigmatic]

On 11/30/2017 at 04:01, Bry said:

I probably shouldn't chuckle, but this thread has taken on the form of a heated manager/player interaction.

"Consider starting a few games in the FM Touch"

"No, FM Touch is not good enough, I need to be playing the regular game at this stage of my career"

"That wasn't the sort of reaction I was hoping for, although I'm grateful to those of you who do agree with me"

"I'm not at all happy with how you've handled this, you'll be hearing from my fellow consumers who bought the game"

[scass]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

it's mostly down to attitudes like this.  Good job.

Given that I've rarely commented until this iteration, don't blame me. talking closely with the developers and getting an idea off their vision? You just want to hero worship. Your idea of a concern about the game is the the Scottish Leagues seem a bit odd. I'm not "telling you about your concerns - I'm simply repeating your own words. 

I didn't try the demo because I played FM16 and FM 17 and found them absorbing. Not without faults, but enjoyable.mEventually they get repetitive but that's any game really.  I expect a standard from this game, and it is not evident in this game.

It's quite easy to give constructive criticism without being insulting, you say - I have. I've mentioned the offside and the match engine elsewhere, and had nothing back, apart from an army post from a moderator which told me thinks I already knew, and seemed to think I should be grateful. 

the forum is meant to be for discussing the game, not for us to sit at the feet of the developers and listen adoringly.

[grade]

FMT is not option for those who want to play it, but can't use the editor in my case. So I personally, don't know if anybody else is in the same position as me, i'm in limbo. Not sure if i depart with my money in regards of FM18.

[scass]

On 29/11/2017 at 10:35, forameuss said:

what's the point in people being so angry when it's suggested to someone else who may not share that view?  

Because this is a discussion forum, and they are expressing an opinion. Unfortunately it disagrees with your view that this forum is ao that we can talk to the developers and find out about their vision, but weird as it may seem to you, if people don't express an opinion that is negative about the game, then the developers won't know. What part of people saying they don't want to play touch do you not understand?

[edk77]

9 hours ago, grade said:

FMT is not option for those who want to play it, but can't use the editor in my case. So I personally, don't know if anybody else is in the same position as me, i'm in limbo. Not sure if i depart with my money in regards of FM18.

Same for me. Need to use editor data but it's supported in FMT. I hate all these player interactions overload, adds no fun to the game but only repeated clicks. Add no realism to the game at all it's just the same robotic conversation over and over again.

[scass]

On 2/12/2017 at 13:35, forameuss said:

 All you're doing is regurgitating empty "the customer is always right" sentiments.

What's empty about having a right to an opinion when I'm paying to keep these people in a job?

"Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them."  How would you know? Your idea of constructive criticism is to say that the Scottish league research isn't good enough. The match engine is awful, the interface is awful, the re are epeople complaining - not insultingly - about the interactions being a click generator and nothing more, but you don't want to hear it because the customer isn't omportant to you. You just want to hear the developers vision. I don't give a damn about their vision. i want to know how they're going to fix the nib football match engine, the repeatedly wrong offside calls, and the meaningless dynamics.

 

You see, I liked this game. I was looking forward to it. I find it absorbing and fun when it's good. but it's not anymore. And your patronising, su[perior "oh I want to hear the developers' vision but you horrible people have chased them away with your criticism" is nauseating.

[HUNT3R]

Cut it out - both of you. 

[forameuss]

On 12/2/2017 at 14:50, scass said:

Given that I've rarely commented until this iteration, don't blame me. talking closely with the developers and getting an idea off their vision? You just want to hero worship. Your idea of a concern about the game is the the Scottish Leagues seem a bit odd. I'm not "telling you about your concerns - I'm simply repeating your own words. 

And misrepresenting them.  You made out that I thought the game was perfect and had no criticisms.  I provided criticisms, but apparently they're not good enough.  I've always been quite open that I find the game to hover around 6-7 out of 10, and that FM16 and 17 were pretty much a busted flush for me.  Certain things that are maddening to others don't bother me.  Other things that people won't care about do.  I'm not saying there aren't other problems with the game, and never have.

On 12/2/2017 at 14:50, scass said:

I didn't try the demo because I played FM16 and FM 17 and found them absorbing. Not without faults, but enjoyable.mEventually they get repetitive but that's any game really.  I expect a standard from this game, and it is not evident in this game.

Well that's unfortunate, but the facility was there to try before you buy.  Always a risk.

On 12/2/2017 at 14:50, scass said:

the forum is meant to be for discussing the game, not for us to sit at the feet of the developers and listen adoringly.

  I'm liking this "adoringly" chat.  Wonderful stuff.  You're totally right, the opaque closed box where people wail about bugs and no communication is much better than actually having an avenue to ask questions of the developers.  Maybe you'd like to ask them specifically about the interactions features?  Nah, course not.  That would be "adoring" them. Can't have that.

On 12/3/2017 at 02:33, scass said:

Because this is a discussion forum, and they are expressing an opinion. Unfortunately it disagrees with your view that this forum is ao that we can talk to the developers and find out about their vision, but weird as it may seem to you, if people don't express an opinion that is negative about the game, then the developers won't know. What part of people saying they don't want to play touch do you not understand?

Deary me.  I never said that was what the forum was for.  It's obviously a discussion forum (it's in the name) but do you disagree that it might perhaps be better if you could get an answer to a question from the person who actually coded the game?  Or is that too much "hero worship" for you?  Is it really better the way it is now?

The very selective quote you gave was part of a larger conversation.  It was suggested a couple of times to the OP that he could try it, then plenty of people jumped in on their behalf saying how they hated Touch.  That's fair enough, but just because they didn't like it doesn't mean that the person actually being suggested to won't either.  And lo and behold, the OP ended up replying saying that he had tried it, didn't like it initially, but would give it a try given what was said about it.  If they end up still not liking it, fine.  Why is it a problem to suggest it?

5 hours ago, scass said:

What's empty about having a right to an opinion when I'm paying to keep these people in a job?

"Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them."  How would you know? Your idea of constructive criticism is to say that the Scottish league research isn't good enough. The match engine is awful, the interface is awful, the re are epeople complaining - not insultingly - about the interactions being a click generator and nothing more, but you don't want to hear it because the customer isn't omportant to you. You just want to hear the developers vision. I don't give a damn about their vision. i want to know how they're going to fix the nib football match engine, the repeatedly wrong offside calls, and the meaningless dynamics.

 

You see, I liked this game. I was looking forward to it. I find it absorbing and fun when it's good. but it's not anymore. And your patronising, su[perior "oh I want to hear the developers' vision but you horrible people have chased them away with your criticism" is nauseating.

Wow.  You're absolutely seething here.

"The customer is always right" is an empty saying because it's completely untrue.  Funnily enough it's usually combined with "but I pay your salary", which it is here too.  Because of course it is.  I do like the irony in your post there though.  I said that at one point you could actually talk to the devs on here, ask them things, and then you cry that you want to know what they're going to do to fix things.  You could have done just that in the olden days, if you could phrase it less like a rant.  

And one last thing..you've really taken this "vision" comment as far more than it deserved to be.    I said

Quote

It remains one of the saddest aspects of this forum that it used to be a place where you could talk quite closely with the developers, get a good idea of their vision and the whys of certain decisions.  Now they steer well clear, and it's mostly down to attitudes like this.

But if it angers you so much, read it as...

Quote

t remains one of the saddest aspects of this forum that it used to be a place where you could talk quite closely with the developers, ask them questions and get direct answers from the people who actually coded the feature, rather than relying on community answers (which are often wrong).  They could also explain design decisions, and, where possible, give an idea of future plans.  Now they steer well clear, and it's mostly down to attitudes like this.

Or even simpler, "talk about what they've done and what they intend to do".  

[scass]

37 minutes ago, forameuss said:

You're totally right, the opaque closed box where people wail about bugs and no communication is much better than actually having an avenue to ask questions of the developers.

Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them.

 

It's called customer service. SI seem to have little concept of it.  And you don't seem to think that we deserve it.

 

 

[Cougar2010]

1 hour ago, scass said:

Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them.

 

It's called customer service. SI seem to have little concept of it.  And you don't seem to think that we deserve it.

 

 

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, scass said:

Funnily enough, it's actually quite easy to give constructive criticism without insulting them.

 

It's called customer service. SI seem to have little concept of it.  And you don't seem to think that we deserve it.

It is possible to give constructive criticism or call it a "shell game for a shoddy product"...

Not sure it's possible to do both, and this is coming from somebody that thought the FM17 player interaction model would have been best improved by deleting 60% of it.

[scass]

59 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

It is possible to give constructive criticism or call it a "shell game for a shoddy product"...

Not sure it's possible to do both, and this is coming from somebody that thought the FM17 player interaction model would have been best improved by deleting 60% of it.

well, you can explain why you think it's a shoddy product.