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Frstly, as a disclaimer, I've really only spent six months thinking about the theoretical side of tactics in Football Manager, and how the match engine replicates certain aspects of the game is still a little unclear to me.  So probably some of what i'm saying is potentially nonsense, as I've mostly made my observations from tinkering with things and watching what happens in the games, as well as in the analysis screens. Anyway, 

The Tactical essence of Sacchi

Summary from my blog post about Sacchi

Sacchi once said “I coached the best team in history”. Some might dispute this, and argue that Guardiola’s Barcelona were the better side, this interesting blog in Goal.com gives Sacchi’s Milan the title, arguing:

Milan are more complete, physical and tactical with greater width to their game, have a stronger defence and an additionally clinical and well-rounded attack. They are also better aerially and from corners and set-pieces.

Previous attempts to recreate Sacchi in football manager, whilst being incredible tactical analyses in some cases, in my view have failed to address the speed and width of the tactic as well as the physicality of the approach, the utilisation of set pieces, and the extreme positioning of the defensive line. I’m most confused by the lack of width in many, not all, of the previous tactics. Donadoni is an incredible winger, two footed, with the ability to go inside or outside on either flank. Tassotti almost plays as a wing back, and Maldini is definitely a supporting fullback, with an outstanding ability to cross from deep. As goal note:

On corners and set-pieces, the entire Milan back four, plus the three Dutchmen were all outstanding in the air, and would expect to threaten the opposition at dead balls. and boast an abundance of pace on the counter attack.

Sacchi was an innovator. Like Guardiola’s Barcelona, both teams undeniably have their influences in the 1970s Dutch team. Sacchi will perhaps be best remembered for the notion of the 25 yard rule, such that, your defensive line should never be 25 yards behind your further most attacker. Watching AC Milan 1989 now on YouTube you’ll see them often camped on the half way line. Within that 25 yard zone, AC would hunt down their opponents to win back possession.

There is also a tremendous fluidity to the Milan approach, and Sacchi loved players who can play in any position. Milan’s back four, Tassotti, Baresi, Costacurta and Paolo Maldini, were comfortable on the ball, the latter two outstanding crossers. Baresi became famous for his attacking bursts to instigate attacks from the back, he was technically as good as any midfielder (Bonucci is p[perfect in this regard).

Sacchi’s formation should not be considered an orthodox 4-4-2, aside from the fluid movement of the players, there were asymmetries to the tactic. Tassotti spends more time up the pitch than Maldini, and Columbo often tucks inside from his wing role to form a midfield three, and help out Ancelotti and Rijkaard. And Gullitt comes deep into midfield to collect the ball, whilst Van Basten usually occupies advanced positions.

In terms of chance creation, goal note

Van Basten and Gullit scored all kind of goals – right foot, left foot, headers, beautiful goals, ugly goals – as did the Milan team in general, who dominated teams not only skilfully, but physically and tactically too. This Milan outfit could cope with the more physical and athletic modern game.

Resources for development of the tactic

http://www.football-coach.net/arrigo-sacchis-method.html 

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2011/11/23/2767812/arrigo-sacchis-ac-milan-vs-pep-guardiolas-barcelona-the

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1425160-great-team-tactics-breaking-down-how-arrigo-sacchis-ac-milan-took-down-europe

https://markfc713.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/football-tactics-arrigo-saachis-4-4-2/

 

 

 

 

 

Previous attempts to recreate the tactic

 

The Formation and Player Roles

155010.thumb.jpg.f477514067b58531834dbcf3f4a8cb4f.jpg

There are other views of this formation available online, but in my view, nothing comes closer than this graphic to representing how Milan play.

The formation is relatively easy to represent in Football Manager, and use of player roles allows you to represent some of the key aspects of Milan's play. E.g. Baresi (Bonucci) as the quarterback, (this is aided in FM18 by the brings ball out of defence PPM), Rijkaard's (Kessie) runs into the box, Van Basten (Kalinic) as an out and out complete forward, the sweeper keeper, and the way Ancelotti (Biglia) drops deep to receive the ball, without ever becoming a holding midfielder. Also having that deep mentality for Biglia will mean he drops in and takes the ball of the defenders whilst playing shorter passes to those around him like Ancelotti did. I'm not sure about the BBM, because Rijkaard does get involved in the build up play as well, hmmm.

Some of the other positions are debatable, for example the positions of Colombo and Donadoni are subject to debate, as are the Gullit position. I believe the front two should be marked out as a two, because if you look especially as Milan get into the final third in the videos Gullit takes up the position of an orthodox centre-forward.

5a1d509f2517f_formation(2).thumb.jpg.853fa39dbd51aa8b4847afc7711ffe63.jpg 

In this case, Gullit is used as a deep lying forward,

Quote

"drop deep into space and hold up the ball before supplying linked passes to teammates, moving the ball back to midfield support, spreading it wide to the flanks, and playing in his strike partner"

5a1d49d946039_gullit(2).thumb.png.f186e09bb7ad1405a04d659537a9277a.png

This role seems a perfect fit for Gullit.
 
The other area of contention concerns the full backs. I've seen matching mentalities set for the full-backs in previous replication attempts. This is surely wrong, if you watch the videos Tassotti gets much further forward than Maldini. Maldini is sure a great crosser of the ball, but a lot of his work comes from deep, he seems to be more cautious, i'm not sure if that is his mentality, or the tactical system. Anyway, as such I've set asymmetric mentalities on the full backs. I am concerned about having an attacking fullback, and may look to analyse this throughout the season if the defence does not improve. 
 
The other problem concerns what to do about the Wingers ? I think Donadoni is fine as an Winger switching to inverted Winger throughout the game, i have no issue with that. Zivkovic is nice, because if you put him on the right as a "Winger - A", he has a left foot and cuts inside PPM, so this will actually perfectly replicate the unpredictable attacking play of Donadoni, in that he will go inside and out. Donadoni is amazing, since he can go outside on the right, but his two-footed nature means he often cuts in as well - and can do the same on the other side. I have signed Zivkovic and Chiesa in essence to replicate him, we also have Suso as well who can play this role. So i perhaps have too many Donadoni's.
 
The other side is an issue. I've just had Bonaventura return from injury, and i see him as playing that Colombo role nicely. The issue is how to replicate a narrow wide midfielder in the game. The description of the Wide Midfielder seems to fit exactly what Colombo does for AC, with the Sit Narrower option ticked in order to move him inside. It is interesting to note, that Milan's width comes from Donadoni and Tassoti, as well as Gullit dropping into wide areas. So the narrow wide midfielder is placed narrow on the same side that the DLFS is placed on, you will see the DLFS often occupying wide areas.  
5a1d4ca493e8f_colombo(2(2).thumb.jpg.d21a957dc4e70f03051a8471b2722167.jpg
I've also used this tactic below to great effect, winning 4-0 and 5-1 in the past two games I've used it, so i might go with it for a while.
3man.thumb.jpg.7c9332dc0df79d9896d8e415c11ff25e.jpg
In this case, the central midfielder on the left pushes out wide with his Mezzala role. Again, the role of the Mezzala seems to some degree consistent with what Colombo does "a central player who drifts out wide into the half spaces". I'm actually a big fan of the asymmetric formations, in that for whatever reason they seem to confuse the AI. Of course, Donadoni is now in the role of an AMR, and i think this could compromise the way we press, although I've not looked at the analysis on that yet. It might be that we need to pull him back to MR, and have the asymmetry in a flat bank of 4, and having him set to an attacking mentality, will push him ahead of his 3 teammates who are set to support and defend roles. 
 
Team Instructions
In my previous thread on my Crystal Palace save i was criticised, perhaps right or wrongly, for trying to change aspects of my mentality through team instructions, so i imagine this is where i'm perhaps committing some mistakes. Remember, i'm not so familiar with all of what the engine does, so i'm applying what I've learnt about football to this tactic, without necessarily understanding if what i'm doing is right within the engine. So i guess, this will be where i will learn the most. If you can comment constructively that'd be really cool. 
 
Mentality
5a1d5311bc8d6_team(2).thumb.jpg.ab79e3c4d9a78a711024e3091afe9482.jpg
I've agonised over mentality, because I've noticed that the mentality influences the defensive line as well as intensity of the press and desire to win possession back quickly. I've not measured it analytically, but i can clearly see that the heat maps for the defence are higher where you use attacking. On attacking, players are also more aggressive winning the ball back (not sure what to do about gets tuck in here, because AC backline did stay on their feet a lot, although the midfield could put the boot in, and also the defence were good at tactical fouling). Pressing is also a lot more intense.
 
So, the question with Sacchi, and the same will be true where we're talking about Saari, is how do we get these defensive lines at the highest as well as ensuring pressing is intense. Since, both operate what must be considered some of the highest defensive lines, we MUST replicate this in FM. I've created a Sarri tactic for Napoli, which uses Attacking mentality, but then rigs everything against that mentality, attacking, e.g. slow tempo, no risky passes, no dribbling, no long shots, retain possession, all short passing, no pass into space.
 
This is just my own version, i don't know if what i'm doing makes any sense WHATSOEVER. However, it makes it work in the game, i'm top with Napoli after ten games, although we're not scoring as much as i'd like the defense is amazing. So i'm bringing that in here ,because i know that Saari was influenced by Sacchi's idea of compression and pressing with the high line and offside trap. 
 
Plus watch AC, there is NO WAY, they should be set to a standard mentality. I agree that control is more realistic for their attacking style, but given perhaps the defining aspect of Saachi's is the high defensive line, closing down, and compression, i believe the attacking mentality actually beats Control for fidelity. I'll be interested to know i guess, am i overstating the role of mentality in defining the defensive line ? I am of course aware, that the attacking players might stay a little further forward in the compression, and therefore we might not get to our 25 yards between defense and attack, but often in the game with this tactic you will see it very compact. But regardless, surely having a Very Fluid mentality ought to create this compression and movement as a unit naturally anyhow ?
 
Also, look at Baresi man, he's got a total attacking orientation with the ball, as does Tassotti, i don't know ? Be interested in peoples thoughts ?  
 
In summary, selecting attacking allows us to have a higher defensive line, if you look at pressing that is also intensified by selecting attacking relative to control, the tactics also allows us a bit more width. Although we need to take steps to mitigate the tempo, since obviously we don't want to turn into Real Madrid. Although if you watch AC they do engage in a lot of counter attacks, so i'm ok with this, although i can see that we're a little too fast. I'm allowing my obsession with the defensive line to make this call.
 
Also aware of the issues relating to using attacking and more width, and how that impacts upon defensive shape. I need to look at this, when i do the defensive analysis. 
 
Tempo
I guess i probably should put this down to normal, and in fact i have used normal at times throughout the season. I can see that this is one way to mitigate the effects of having the attacking mentality. I don't know, i mean if the nature of high intensity is "using this approach to unsettle opposition", then it would appear to be the case with Sacchi's AC. Attacking obviously raises the tempo anyhow, so yeah, i'll change to normal, lol. 
 
I can see the engine does not always like higher tempo with shorter pass as well, and relative to my crystal palace save, i think we're having issues with chances being wasted, which i think might be influenced by tempo and passing style. 
 
Team Shape 
Very Fluid, i don't think there's any debate, AC one of the most fluid teams I've ever watched, with all players contributing to all phases. In my head anyway, this option, the team plays as a unit and as such ought to create the compression necessary for the 25 yard compression zone, since all players are contributing to that phase of the game ?
Attacking players still have high levels of creative freedom with the ball, despite the rigid systematic approach to defensive phases. 
 
Width
Again, i think is debatable, I've seen some teams go for a Balanced width. I'm not convinced, given the high volume of crosses to goals AC scored, you will not get authenticity by using Balanced, it has to be wider for me. I might even try exploiting the flank that Donadoni player is on in future. I certainly passionately disagree with previous replications who've used Narrow, in fact i'd say this was wrong. 
Width will allow more space and increase the mentalities of wider players, whilst offering support to them as well. Which seems to be a characteristic of Saachi. As mentioned above, i'm aware of the tension between wide play and defensive shape. 
 
Defensive line and offside trap 
Self evident. One of highest defensive lines ever used, and watching Baresi orchestrate the offside trap is a thing of beauty. There are some videos on YouTube actually, it's amazing. 
 
Closing Down More
Again, debatable as to whether should be set to Much More, but i believe that the compression of the zone between defence and attack is more a characteristic of Saachi rather than aggressively closing down per se. Need to do some analysis on how the pressing looks in the match engine, as I've been very focussed on getting the attacking play improved. 
 
Prevent GK short distribution. 
I'm unsure about this too, since i imagine that during the press, it drags the attackers a little further forward, thus creating a longer gap between defence and attack, but again, thoughts welcome. 
 
Tight Marking
Big problem for this tactic, is this option. Because Saachi doesn't man-mark. So previous attempts to create pressing systems, which i read when i was creating Sarri, users stated that they had clicked tighter marking to intensify the press. But, this would not be appropriate here ? 
However, here, i'm making the assumption that tighter marking relates to man marking ? I'm not sure it does ? Because obviously you can zonally mark tightly. So i'll definitely be interested if anyone knows about this ? 
 
Passing
Right, play out of defense, shorter passing, and work ball into box are all key features of AC's play. There is an argument for pass into space, but if you watch how the rest of the tactic combines, you will see that there is no need to pass into space since given the mentality and player roles, they already do this. I don't want possession to fall below 55% since you lose fidelity to Sacchi's play. Although i agree, they do pass into space.
For those who said i was using too many TI's to influence the mentality, my reasoning for doing so, is that when you click retain possession all of the passing directions change, not only the team directness bar (see below), but also ALL of the INDIVIDUAL bars for the players too. So ok, I've clicked shorter passing, but in my head anyway, by clicking retain possession, i'm shortening that pass direction of players who have short passing selected. And this is the reasoning for selecting the TI's that i have, I've looked at what they do to those instructions that are dependent upon other tactical choices, and some of the chains of causation are quite long. Are you saying then that this is completely useless and meaningless ? and there's no difference between retain possession and not retain possession in terms of passing directness ?
Remember, i don't know much about how the engine does these things, i only have my observations on what happens in the tactic screen, as well as what happens in the match engine, and analysis of the data post game. 
 5a1d586dcd412_pass2jpg(2).jpg.893f02671b49b9bd16ffda34cc626078.jpg5a1d5879678f8_pass(2).jpg.f44c97841d8a148713bb59390d1dde02.jpg
 
Creative freedom
Again, i think this is an area I might have got wrong. Since creative freedom relates to individual expression, we have a paradox of sorts within this AC Milan side. Going forward they are extremely expressive, yet Sacchi will of course be remembered for the extremely rigid and extreme approach to defending. So i'm thinking ticking this, will influence how the teams expressed itself, which is what i want. But i'm hoping it does impact upon defensive shape too much.  
 
Crossing
Float crosses, as mentioned, crosses are frequently floated into the box for Gullit, MBV, and Rijkaard, so self evident. Maldini also has the PI "crosses from deep" whereas Tassotti has "cross from byline".
 
Attack
Another defining characteristic of Sacchi's play, especially compared to Guardiola's replication of the 70s Dutch philosophy, and in stark contrast with Saari's replication, is the degree of dribbling. This isn't a possession tactic, there's bags of direct balls, crosses, and dribbling. Players who have dribble more include the "RB", the "BBM", the "Winger", and the front two.
 
Playing Squad
I'll do another thread linked on the playing squad, because i need to think in detail about how we get the right plyers in to replicate this. We need to get in big men in order to replicate the set-piece aspect of Saachi, as well as the goals from crosses. Obviously, we're going to need defenders with outstanding anticipation and positioning, as well as the technical attributes, we're lucky in having Romagnoli and Bonucci from the start, Roma can take over from Bonu when he retires. Mussachio should be good enough to fit that Costacurta role. I need a back up for him, defenders also need reasonable technique, first touch, off the ball and passing as well as decisions and high mental defensive attributes. Then you've got the overall team DNA, of determination, work rate, and team work. This will not be an easy task. The purchase of a better left back than Rodriguez also will be needed, in my head i'm thinking Kolasinac, although i need to think about this more ? Plus is Kolas better than Rodriguez in this version of the game ? 
Kessie can become Rijkaard, i'm convinced of that. I'm unsure about whether locatelli can become Ancelotti, but i like giving young players a chance and will allow him the time to see. Plus, we can play Biglia, who's just a shade off being a world class DLP right now, in bigger games, until LocaT is where we need him to be. We need to get in a back up for Kessie, i also like to have two first xi's who can nearly do as good as job as each other, because Montolivio, although playing well in this role, is not what we're looking forward. We need a strong CM who's good in the air, has the techincal ability, mental stats, and aerial capability to play the Rijkaard role (Savic ?). I need to find a better Wide Midfielders than Bonuventura, not because i don't rate him, i'm sure he can do that Coloumbo job, but he doesn't have a very good rating for that position. I will try and retrain him there, and see what happens. But i will sign a replacement in the summer, since i don't think this is a priority now. 
Kalinic and Silva can play the Van Basten role, and both are smashing in goals from everywhere at the moment. Silva is amazing in this game, and the similarities to Van Basten in terms of the goals he has got is really cool. I need to find a Gullit figure ASAP, hopefully in the Jan transfer window. I'm looking for  player who is tall and strong, capable in the air, but with amazing first touch, dribbling, pace, passing, off the ball, decisions, team work, work rate, determination, bravery, and finishing, LOL, not too much to ask for a club in the EURO Cup. 
Anyway, will LOVE some feedback, especially from those who can answer my questions on the match engine Q's I've noted above. And also those who have created tactics based upon Saachi, Sarri, or even the German pressing systems, as well as obviously those which derive from the Dutch school.
Tactic is finally working, we lost 3 of our first 4, but then won 6 in a row, although we just lost to Juve away 1-0, in a really close defensive game. This is the beauty i think of the tactics i have made, is that the attacking mentality combined with higher defensive line, closing down, and offside trap, gives a beautiful defence as the tactical familiarity improves. We're storming our EURO Cup games, against some poor teams, which really gives me hope that once this tactic is bedded in, and the right players are bought and young players improved, we will be able to replicate some of those crazy Sacchi scorelines from the late 80s. 
 
YouTube videos regarding my tactic - 

 

 

saachitactic.jpg

Edited by ifoundthatessence
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this is a great read. i love watching yourself argue with yourself over things like mentality. its exactly the sort of issues i have had with trying to recreate peps bayern and man city sides. i think the key to this is to actually watch the team play in FM on at least extended highlights to see exactly what is happening and whats going wrong. please come back with how things have progressed. dont give up because this is great

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1 hour ago, argenmik said:

this is a great read. i love watching yourself argue with yourself over things like mentality. its exactly the sort of issues i have had with trying to recreate peps bayern and man city sides. i think the key to this is to actually watch the team play in FM on at least extended highlights to see exactly what is happening and whats going wrong. please come back with how things have progressed. dont give up because this is great

hey buddy, yeah i definitely agree about watching the matches. I';ve also used the analysis screens after to game, to identify who is giving the ball away, wasting crosses, and losing dribbles.

But yeah, the attacking mentality with very high is way too quick and needs to be changed. 

Whilst these goals are crazy mad beautiful, the Atalanta goals are way too quick. 

But then the second video Vs Chievo i have slowed the tempo to Normal, and i also trained 5 bars of attacking set pieces and we scored four goals from set plays. Also look at the backheel from Andre Silva ! and there was me saying he couldn't be Gullit !!! But yeah as i said, i'd set up the set pieces formations to the AC formations. I think i might keep training set plays in match prep, owing to Milan set-piece prowess. 

We're absolutely ripping it up now, Chievo hammered 5-0, Atalanta 3-1, beat Napoli 3-1, Cagliari 3-0, and even won at Lazio 3-2. 

Your tactical styles are much slower, and i think that's their defining character, so yeah you've got a job on there !!! In order to make my previous Sarri tactic patient and slow, i set up to attacking for the mentality to get the defensive line, then rigged everything against fast direct play. I've kept normal tempo though, because of the fact that Sarri has quicker play in the final third - then rigged the PI's for the back five and the DLP to slow the play down in the first third and the build up. 

5a1da0024a5e9_sarriFM18(2).thumb.png.223b3a8fcd3e94bb208d6ff26f1b9120.png

But i can't score many goals with it. We've got 13 clean sheets in the past 19 games, but not enough goals. We are top though, but just no fun cos not scoring enough. 

Blah in my AC save, i just lost 1-0 to Sassulo as i was writing this, 20 chances Vs their 4. Blah. They scored over the top, THIS always happens when my first choice CB's don't play. Romagnoli and Paletta aren't that good yet, and don't have the bright green links between them either - so no shock. 

 

Edited by ifoundthatessence

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Good read.

And i don't understand why you were slated with your Palace topic, was certainly a good read and a good tactic.

Cheers,
Bitner 

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yeah from the clips i agree it is very very direct and i believe that they were a little more concise than that in attack. not holding possession at all needlessly but definitely having calm possession too where required.

it seems like youve moved to flexible shape for the screenshot. surely its as much very fluid as any team can be on FM. i myself would probably come down to control or even move to a standard and then reduce some of the slowing of the tempo shouts such as retain possession. 

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Haha, well i still don't really understand what went on with that Palace tactic, i'll have to do some more analysis, when i stop obsessing over the Saachi one. 

I tested with Leicester, who should've been amazing at it, and we're 8th after 20 games, and at Newcastle we're 12th. There's obviously some really interesting things to draw out about the interaction between the Palace squad and that tactic, i might try it again and see what happens. 

I especially think that the overload tactic coupled with the determination of the players was incredibly important in winning that title. 

I guess, whilst i do get the attacking aspects of the engine, i'm still not too clued up on the defensive aspects of the FM engine in relation to counter attack. So it's like, i don't really know what i'm doing defensively, yet put together that achievement it's the random aspect of it i guess.

You know, if i'd pre-planned the defensive performances it might've carried more legitimacy. The one thing i did do, was use Games Won % to pick my defence, as well as playing players who had full Green Bars, hence Joel Ward and James Tomkins and Papa Souare were permanent starters despite having better talent on the bench. 

But hey-ho. I've put a lot into this Saachi tactic so far, and will continue to do so, hopefully it will be cool. I'm looking now for the new Gullit, which is pretty exciting. I need to get his stats from the internet off an old screenshot or from FIFA if he never made it into an FM. Need a Rijkaard, and a Maldini also. Should be geeky fun. I never thought about getting the exact same players in from a system before. 

 

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1 minute ago, argenmik said:

yeah from the clips i agree it is very very direct and i believe that they were a little more concise than that in attack. not holding possession at all needlessly but definitely having calm possession too where required.

it seems like youve moved to flexible shape for the screenshot. surely its as much very fluid as any team can be on FM. i myself would probably come down to control or even move to a standard and then reduce some of the slowing of the tempo shouts such as retain possession. 

yeah definitely agree, which is the consequence of the attacking mentality :-( 

Oh sorry, the screenshot was from my Mauricio Sarri tactic at Napoli, which has some similarity, but yeah Sarri definitely doesn't use the same fluidity.  

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2 minutes ago, argenmik said:

yeah from the clips i agree it is very very direct and i believe that they were a little more concise than that in attack. not holding possession at all needlessly but definitely having calm possession too where required.

it seems like youve moved to flexible shape for the screenshot. surely its as much very fluid as any team can be on FM. i myself would probably come down to control or even move to a standard and then reduce some of the slowing of the tempo shouts such as retain possession. 

 

think that screenshot may have been for the sari one so ignore that. comment.

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19 hours ago, argenmik said:

 

think that screenshot may have been for the sari one so ignore that. comment.

I agree man, it's like a little too fast. Although, it's on normal tempo now. tbf, a lot of the games do have these short passing passages, but the short passing never leads to goals :-( The goals are often from breaks, or set plays.

So it's got it in the actual DNA of the tactic, but it doesn't lead to chance creation :-( I guess because in essence, i'm trying to superimpose a passing system on a mentality not designed to do so ?

Have a look at this though, the goals are spookily AC-esque in this game.

 

 

 

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On 11/29/2017 at 00:04, argenmik said:

this is a great read. i love watching yourself argue with yourself over things like mentality. its exactly the sort of issues i have had with trying to recreate peps bayern and man city sides. i think the key to this is to actually watch the team play in FM on at least extended highlights to see exactly what is happening and whats going wrong. please come back with how things have progressed. dont give up because this is great

Extended? If you truly want to replicate, its an exercise of patience. You will hardly see enough on extended. 

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thanks Rashidi for the criticism i was just trying to help someone out. good moderating.

"at least extended highlights". 

 

anyway... ifoundthatessence how is everything going now, some of those goals were great, i think that your idea of getting similar players is a good one because if you have someone more lightweight that Gullit for example he wont be capable of doing exactly the same things. i often think youre best off selling almost all of the players who dont suit and even buying weaker players who suit the system. 

Edited by argenmik

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5 hours ago, argenmik said:

thanks Rashidi for the criticism i was just trying to help someone out. good moderating.

"at least extended highlights". 

 

anyway... ifoundthatessence how is everything going now, some of those goals were great, i think that your idea of getting similar players is a good one because if you have someone more lightweight that Gullit for example he wont be capable of doing exactly the same things. i often think youre best off selling almost all of the players who dont suit and even buying weaker players who suit the system. 

Play nice, mate. Rasho is a tactical legend here. He knows his stuff when it comes to these mechanisms in FM :D

 

Anyways, I do like to see a different interpretation of the same system at times because it just means we're trying to get closer to the real thing. :D

My main problem with emulating this is that soccer was at a different time/place compared to where it is now. The new Offside law didn't come to place yet and most teams in Italy used a man-marking system. If Sacchi was around now, his team would be toasted :D

 

It is impossible to press that high up on the field and to have a high line like he did because he would easily get exposed by a through ball behind the defense and a pacy striker staying between the lines and catching up to it ala Vardy and Pippo. Klopp and Pep had this issue too and that's why their luck ran out sooner at Dortmund and Barca respectively. Sarri will be next in line when more teams are happy to sit deep and compact and only have a pacey striker up top ala Ranieri's Leicester.

This game can kill you if you overcommit too much on the D-line so it is important to have a good backline with pace, stamina and good defending skills.

 

 

 

Edited by Jean0987654321

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On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 21:10, Jean0987654321 said:

Play nice, mate. Rasho is a tactical legend here. He knows his stuff when it comes to these mechanisms in FM :D

 

Anyways, I do like to see a different interpretation of the same system at times because it just means we're trying to get closer to the real thing. :D

My main problem with emulating this is that soccer was at a different time/place compared to where it is now. The new Offside law didn't come to place yet and most teams in Italy used a man-marking system. If Sacchi was around now, his team would be toasted :D

 

It is impossible to press that high up on the field and to have a high line like he did because he would easily get exposed by a through ball behind the defense and a pacy striker staying between the lines and catching up to it ala Vardy and Pippo. Klopp and Pep had this issue too and that's why their luck ran out sooner at Dortmund and Barca respectively. Sarri will be next in line when more teams are happy to sit deep and compact and only have a pacey striker up top ala Ranieri's Leicester.

This game can kill you if you overcommit too much on the D-line so it is important to have a good backline with pace, stamina and good defending skills.

 

 

 

 

On ‎30‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 15:15, argenmik said:

thanks Rashidi for the criticism i was just trying to help someone out. good moderating.

"at least extended highlights". 

 

anyway... ifoundthatessence how is everything going now, some of those goals were great, i think that your idea of getting similar players is a good one because if you have someone more lightweight that Gullit for example he wont be capable of doing exactly the same things. i often think youre best off selling almost all of the players who dont suit and even buying weaker players who suit the system. 

Partially agree regarding extended highlights - i think comprehensive is fine though for me, i see no need to watch anything beyond that though. Occasionally i'll watch five or ten minutes of a game, just to see how we do play outside of highlights.  

Agree - regarding Saachi's system would now be exposed. Although obviously he'd have the intellect to adapt. 

Agree regarding players who suit the system, although i don't want to go too weak, cos i want to dominate Europe within 3/4 seasons. It's hard with AC cos there's not that much being put in for transfers, and gates are only 40,000. I think, there's a 45m sponsorship deal, which i assume has something to do with the owners, which is nice to receive in June. But there's little TV money and prize money in Italy relative to the UK, and PSG have just insane money. First season you're only in the EURO Cup, and i got knocked out by Real in the quarter anyhow. So not ideal. Anyhow, 

ON DEFENSE

So finally I've managed to get the defensive aspect of the attacking mentality working with the high line, aggressive pressing, and not conceding (ATTACK mentality, close down much more, prevent GK dist, higher defensive line). We did this last year and lost a lot of games first season (losing the scudetto to Juventus :-( ), mainly conceding goals from through balls, the tactics screen said we had an extremely high proportion of our goals from through balls. On another thread, i noticed that someone had suggested to click your defenders to close down much less, so i did that, and it's really helped. As has man marking and closing down the guy who is playing the through balls. I think also the team has finally gone from good to very good cohesion, which seems to me to have a massive impact upon the ability to deal with defensive situations. I said in my Palace thread, that i thought the very good cohesion we had early on had been really important to our defensive line. 

I also read on that 12 things you should know about FM thread, that you should never use more than one specialist role with a pressing team, so I've done that too. Changing the box to box midfielder (Rijkaard / Kessie) to a CM Attack. 5a22047b82b9e_ac22(2).thumb.png.10af0a9d884ca5444e8b8543897bb32a.png

I've also developed a standard tactic, to use at 1-0, which does quite well, almost as a counter attack tactic with a higher line. 

Squad is sorted really. Musachio / Romagnoli play the Costacurta role, Bonucci and Michael Keane can play the Baresi. We've got Calbria and Conti at the club at right back, and Rodriguez at left back (also signed that Ricca from Malaga for 1m as cover). 

We're mostly conceding 1's or keeping clean sheets now, so that's nice, i hope that over time, the defence will continue to improve. 

ac2.thumb.png.b990d25730a96484ecca95be5186dbc6.png

ON ATTACK

 I've trained the team really hard this year, (AC have great training facilities anyhow), and got more coaches in, and they've improved a lot, so many players have been reported as having improved their abilities. Nearly every player now has one-two's - i'm seeing a lot of these during the games, and some goals have come from them. Sergei Savic, who i signed to be our Gullit, is now becoming our Gullit, TOTAL BEAST OF A PLAYER, even better than he was on FM17. I've trained him a DLF, and stopped him rushing forward whenever possible, and he's now learning to drop deep as PPM (which i'm desperate that he learns). Andre Silva got 37 goals last season, and Kallinic got 20+ and is doing well this year ,both are beasts, who share the MVB role now, with our crossing system which obviously suits them. I clicked more shots for both of them too, and they score some insane goals. I've trained them to do overhead kicks which should be cool. Zivkovic, Suso, Chiesa, Cazorla, and Bonoventura in wide areas who each do different roles., Ziv, Sus, and Chi all play the Donadoni role, Bono plays a wide midfielder role like Colombo did, and I use Cazorla as a kind of wide Pirlo, not really anything to do with Saachi, but i love Cazorla. All wide players are being trained to run with ball, ala Donadoni. 

Kessie is a beast, will be our rijkaard, i'd like to get Delli Alli in too (he came up when i searched for Rijkaard's stats), cos it's demanding role, but having trouble getting him from spurs, although he wants to come. In the Ancelotti role, Biglia is playing big games, but Locatelli plays most games, he'll be a perfect replacement and like for like with Ancelotti, for his passing, long shots, and tackling ability (and i'll sign Melgioni or Benassi too, once Biglia is too old), got Wilshere to play the Ancelotti role (although is injured obviously). 

So far we're unbeaten, I've started dreaming on being invincible, but a long way to go yet. I've never been invincible ever before, even with a plug and play, let alone something i built from scratch, but It's a great tactic, i'm loving it, i might do another thread with all the PI's on, cos there are so many now, it's silly. We've got some really hard games now though, so i guess i'll lose a few of these. But anyhow, we've five clear, so yeah it's going great !!!! 

I'll upload some of the goals tomorrow. 

 

 

 

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