The Football's Kingdom - The Training Way

[Cleon]

This is taken from my blog https://teaandbusquets.com/

Santos Futebol Clube has a rich history of developing the next generation of talent in world football. Names such as Pelé, Robinho, Diego, Ganso and Neymar are all names that came from the famous academy over the years and that tradition doesn’t look like stopping anytime soon. When Neymar was sold to Barcelona Santos had another young exciting prospect ready to step in and fill his boots in the name of Gabriel Barbosa or Gabigol as he is more commonly known as. But sadly for Santos fans he has now left the club but there are rumours circulating that he could be a Santos player again very soon. Thiago Maia is also another product of the Santos academy that has now left too.

But Santos being Santos already have more future stars throughout all their youth ranks and some are already making names for themselves or have established themselves in the past year or so in the first team. The future stars you’ll likely start hearing about (if you haven’t already) are players like Rodrygo who is a very special talent indeed. The we have Yuri Alberto who is an absolute beast for a 16-year-old, he has the physique of a fully grown man already. And other names in these squads that are worth mentioning are Kaique, Lucas Lourenço and Victor Yan to name but a few. So the squads are looking very promising for the next few years.

The talent at the Santos academy seems to endless.

It’s one of the reasons I love playing as them on Football Manager because the academy produces lots of good players which not only help the club but depending on the type of saved game you are playing, can also greatly benefit the league too. All the players I produce are either used by myself or sold to teams in the league to strengthen it and make it more challenging as I aim to make it a more competitive league. It takes a long time to achieve but the investment is well worth it long-term. I actually wrote about this on here in the past, if you’d like a refresher or haven’t read it then here is the article;

https://teaandbusquets.com/making-a-league-more-competitive

In Football Manager the Santos academy is just as good as its real life counterpart and produces lots of decent to good players who can play at a good standard. This year I’ll be documenting the players I develop and showcasing how I do that with the aim of long-term squad building in mind. I’ll also be talking you through intake days as they happen so we can track who is at the club and how they’re being developed.

Youth development is a big part of any long-term save that I create because the overall end goal is to have a self-sufficient academy that allows me to only ever use academy players. This will take a few seasons to set up but it’s the aim from season three onward. So developing players is an integral part of this save but how do I decide how to train and develop players? Well hopefully I can answers those questions below.

Before we look at the squads though, we should perhaps familiarise ourselves with the training module in Football Manager.

General Training

The General training focuses you can train are:

• Balanced
• Fitness
• Tactics
• Ball Control
• Defending
• Attacking
• Team Cohesion

All of the above focus on sets of attributes so let’s break them down and take a look;

• Fitness : Acceleration, Agility,Balance, Jumping, Natural Fitness, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Workrate
• Tactics: Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Teamwork
• Ball Control: Dribbling, First Touch, Heading, Technique, Flair
• Defending: Marking, Tackling, Positioning
• Attacking: Crossing, Finishing, Long Shots, Passing, Creativity, Off the ball

So if you choose a focus this means the emphasis on the attributes listed above will be much greater than normal. You’ll notice I left off balanced from the list, the reason for this is because it’s like a default setting and make sure all attributes have the same focus on all attributes with no preference. The general training module is great if you want all players to train a specific way for something you are creating and take a more generic approach.

Scheduling

On this part of the bar you can select to allow players to have a rest before/after a game. The bar also moves and the furthest left you go the more time is spent on match training. The further right you go the less time is spent on match training. There is 5 different settings in total and each move either increases or decreases by 10%. So if you had the bar to the far left it would be 50% meaning training between General and Match is split evenly. All the way to the right would mean 100% General training with no match training.

Individual Training

This is the part of training that I enjoy the most and always spent the most time setting up. You have the choice to either focus on an individual role or an individual attribute. The role choice all depends on the positions the player can play in or what you want him to play in or train for. For individual attributes though you can train;

• Corners
• Crossing
• Dribbling
• Finishing
• First Touch
• Free Kicks
• Heading
• Long Shots
• Long Throws
• Marking
• Passing
• Penalties
• Tackling
• Technique
• Composure
• Off the Ball
• Positioning
• Agility
• Balance
• Jumping
• Quickness
• Stamina
• Strength

Some of these might be unavailable for some people because they are dependent on your training facilities. So better the facilities the more of the above options you should have to choose from.

You can train a Focus, Position and Preferred Move if you wish to, but they will eat into each other’s time, rather than into general training. Individual training does NOT come out of general training – it is added together to create an overall workload.

We will focus on the actual role training at a later date but it’s pretty much self-explanatory. 

The Squads

While Santos do have a lot of high potential players, the starting attributes for a lot of the under 20’s are not set so will differ from game to game. A large amount of them though will grow into future world-class stars.

Squad personality also plays a part in player development so it’s worth taking a few seconds to learn what it does.

On past versions (FM15 and below. This was introduced for FM16) of the game this didn’t have an impact on player development but now that’s changed. So how does it work? It’s basically an automatic effect that is similar to tutoring but not as powerful.

The effects can be good or bad and are limited solely to the attribute related to the personality type. Eg. Professional = Professionalism (hidden attribute), Determination = Determination attribute and so on. So this differs from tutoring because it only works on one attribute, the one listed on the screen highlighted above. The age cut-off depends on the players  adaptability (hidden attribute) but the upper age limit is 24. So if the player has a low adaptability attribute then his cut off age will be before 24 by quite a bit.

The First Team

Reserves

Under 20’s

In the Under 20’s squad, a lot of these players are random at how good they can be but also, a lot of them will always be good. Rodrygo, Victor Yan, Yuri Alberto and Guilherme should always have a high potential ability. Then other names such as Andre Anderson, Kaique, Matheus Guedes and Alexandre Tam can be in just about any range and can be poor, really good or somewhere in between.

The biggest talent in the Under 20’s squad though is Rodrygo.

Rodrygo is probably one of the biggest talents in his age group, not only at Santos but in Brazil. Although he is very young he seems to have all the attributes for a bright future. This is why on Football Manager 2018 he is the one player I’ll be developing to be the future of the first team. I want him to break all records going and be the main goalscorer at the club.

With this in mind his training will alter as he develops as I try to mould him into the type of player I need him to be. Normally I mould them to play a specific way but on this save I’ll be using the 4-2-3-1 deep that I’ve been writing about. However this isn’t how I’ll be playing in the second season, I’m still undecided on what style and shape I will be using. I’ll have a better idea towards the middle of the first season and then start planning for the second season. But I can still develop players to be the best player they can be.

The first thing I need to do is look at personalities and have players tutored if they have weak or bad personality types. I’d include the old personality guide I did but it’s a bit outdated now so I’ll need to revisit that and make amendments to it, so it brings it up to date. A lot of numbers that created specific personality types was changed slightly and new personality types were added. So it’s not that simple to update it and will take some considerable time.

As we can see here he only has a balanced personality. So straight away I look at changing this and have him tutored with;

There are three reasons why you’d tutor someone;

• To change someones personality type
• To try to get determination to rise (if the tutor has higher than the tutee)
• To transfer PPM’s.

Those are the only real benefits of tutoring. A good personality makes it easier to possibly fulfill a player’s potential. Especially if the player has good ambition, professionalism and determination. That’s not everything though. He still needs the correct training and game time. But having those ingredients will go a long way to helping him realise his full potential.

This is his training. I’ve set him to work on the role of an inside forward for now as it works on the attributes that need to be defined more for now. You can see which attributes it works on in the screenshot. I also gave him an additional focus for stamina and gave him a heavy intensity. A player who doesn’t have much stamina isn’t going to last very long and I expect the role that Rodrygo will play, will be very demanding.

Already though, you can see he is unhappy with the extra workload. This is something I’ll keep an eye on because unhappy players don’t always progress well. Not only that but the extra intensity can cause injuries which will mean training and playing time being restricted which isn’t good. Injuries can set back development by quite a bit, so I need to be careful striking the right balance. His personality type also doesn’t help with his happiness, someone more professional is more willing to have higher intensity and heavier workloads.

Now for the best of the rest.

Victor Yan

He looks like he has incredible stats for a 15-year-old doesn’t he? I have lots of different ways to train Victor but ideally I see him as some kind of Segundo Volante long-term. You might struggle to see how currently but remember he is only 15 years old so any of these attributes can be 15+ in a few years. Young players who have potential are like a blank canvas and you can shape them to be anything. A lot of people tend to look at youth players and see low attributes and think that is the end of them and that they’ll never be high-end double figures. They can and they will. Try and see the bigger picture.

• Training – Segundo Volante
• Individual Focus – None

That’s how I have him set up training for now. Ideally I see him as some kind of creative defensive midfielder or an attacking defensive midfield. Hence why he is training the Segundo Volante role as this will strengthen the defensive midfield position rating too.

This is the player tutoring him in the hope we see a positive improvement in Victor’s personality.

Yuri Alberto

Yuri Alberto is someone I see as my long-term wide target man. It helps that he already has this as his best role for both his natural positions. It’s definitely something I will be focusing on and strengthening in the next year.

• Training – Wide target man
• Individual Focus – Jumping Reach
• Intensity – Heavy

I’ve gave him the wide target man role training obviously to focus on those attributes it trains. While also giving him a jumping reach focus for around three months before I either remove it, or put it as something else. For those of you who have followed my training stuff for a while, you’d know that I only ever focus on an individual attribute for a maximum of three months at a time. The reason for this is, three months is enough time to see a change but also once a change has been seen it’s highly unlikely that it’ll change as quickly again. So I tend to rotate several attributes that I’ll focus on throughout the year and rotate them every three months.

Nilmar is the one doing the tutoring so far.

Lucas Lourenço

Lucas has the potential to play anywhere I want really, either out wide, up front, behind the striker or even a deep midfield role. I think I see him as the advanced playmaker kind of player though. With this in mind his training is;

• Training – Advanced Playmaker (AMC)
• Individual Focus – None

I decided against giving him an individual focus as I feel he can’t handle the extra workload just yet. He’s quite a weak player and his personality type of balanced doesn’t help. However if he improves like I think he will, then this is something I’ll revisit in a few months time.

Renato is the tutor. Once tutoring is finished I’ll be getting players tutored again by others or even the same people, depending on how much I see in the personality changes the first time around.

Guilherme

Another very versatile player who can basically play anywhere on the pitch. He’s very raw and underdeveloped for a 18-year-old who will be 19-years-old in six months time. Due to his age he really needs game time now to get better, training isn’t going to be enough due to how raw he is. With this in mind he will be promoted to the first team.

As for the position he’ll play, I think he will be more suited to playing as a ball playing defender. He’s mentally weak though so if I play him he might be a liability at times. But I can’t not play him if I want him to develop, it’s a double edge sword.

• Training – Ball-Playing Defender
• Individual Focus – None

That’s how I’m training him for now. He doesn’t get any additional training as he will be playing quite often now as I try to give him game time to aid his development. If I gave him extra training then he might not be able to cope especially with the game time and the last thing I want to do is increase the injury risk of someone this underdeveloped. Any kind of long-term injury with this player and it will be the end of his career with Santos. The reason being, any 3 month or longer injury will likely set his development back from anywhere between 6-12 months and I can’t afford that kind of risk.

He still might get injured I can’t fully prevent them but I can do my best to make sure what I do, doesn’t increase the risk of them happening. This is why the medical centre this year is a godsend.

I will update you on the development at a later date and also add some other players I’ve not currently mentioned. I just wanted to focus on the basics for now and start with a few examples of the players I’ll be pushing hard and giving game time to immediately. 

[Cleon]

Player’s preferred moves or PPM’s for short are a big part of Football Manager and have been for many years. Yet it’s an area I feel people neglect or don’t quite understand what a player’s preferred move is and how they work. Hopefully this post will explain a little bit about how I utilise PPM’s and decide what I need and more importantly is the player capable of doing what I’ve learnt him. This article is about what I look for and others might do it differently, so I’m not saying this way is a must or better, it’s simply just explaining how I utilise them.

I get a lot of people ask me about players preferred moves and if I have a list of the best one for each position and I always reply with the same answer – There is no best and it totally depends on what you want from the tactic you’ve created and what style you are aiming to achieve. Any PPM training should be based on this because it will impact your tactic in some way, so you need to factor this into any decision-making when creating tactics.

Even after setting your tactic up with the team and player instructions you’ve chosen it still might not mean the players are doing those things because they might have a player’s preferred move that doesn’t allow or impacts in someway the settings you’ve selected. For this you need to be aware of any PPM’s the player has when tactic building. PPM’s do not cost CA they are free with the exception of one, develops weaker foot. They should also be thought of as tendencies and an extension of a player’s profile. If someone has a PPM then they will attempt to use this move as often as they see fit. The frequency at which it will be used comes down to decision-making and how successful it is, comes down to the required attributes.You can’t really influence them by setting certain tactical settings in the user interface. They are purely dependant on the player’s own decision-making.

These add a different dimension to the player and depending on what PPM’s he has will instruct him to do certain traits like dictate tempo, curl ball, shoots with power and so on. So when creating a tactic and choosing a role for a player you really should take these into consideration because they may affect how he plays the role you’ve give him. For example – you wouldn’t want an anchor man with the PPM gets forward when possible, as his job is to stay deep and protect the back four. Having that kind of PPM for that kind of role can stop him doing it effectively and efficiently and could make him get caught out of position frequently. So you need to be aware of the PPM’s a player has before deciding what you want him to do in the system you are creating.

If you are playing a version of the game that is older than FM15 then there are seven PPM’s that can only be obtained via tutoring;

• Curls ball
• Stays back at all times
• Dwells on ball
• Tries to play way out of trouble
• Gets into oppositions area
• Arrives late in oppositions area
• Argues with officials

On versions from FM15 onward all PPM’s can be trained, so if you’d like your players to learn any of those above then you’ll have to find a player with them already in the game and try to buy the player. Then you can try to get it transferred to one of your players by having him tutor someone. Also on older versions of the game some of these PPM’s might not be available or have slightly different names. If memory serves me right there only used to be 47 PPM’s available, so just be wary that if you use an older versions things might ever so slightly be different from in this article.

Below I’ll list all the player preferred moves and talk about what attributes I think a player needs to be able to use them. Remember this is just my opinion based on what I’ve used for quite a few years so if you don’t agree that is fine as these are just my opinions.

There are a total of 51 PPM’s that are available by either tutoring(if the tutor has PPM's ofc) or learning a player the move.  The full list of PPM’s can be seen in the screenshots below.

PPM’s

When looking at PPM’s either learning them or unlearning them, not a lot of people take into account the player’s attributes. Player’s attributes are a massive part of PPM’s and determine if he can actually do what you’ve instructed. All I’m doing is showing what I look for when deciding who can have what PPM’s rather than saying my way is better than anyone else’s. So here is a list of attributes that I work on when teaching players PPM’s, you might think differently or look for different attributes though.

1. Runs with ball down left – dribbling, technique, acceleration, balance, agility.
2. Runs with ball down right – dribbling, technique, acceleration, balance, agility.
3. Runs with ball through centre – dribbling, technique, acceleration, balance, agility.
4. Gets into opposition area – anticipation, determination, off the ball, pace, work rate.
5. Moves into channels – off the ball, work rate, vision.
6. Gets forward whenever possible – work rate, stamina, teamwork, pace/acceleration.
7. Plays short simple passes – passing, technique, first touch, anticipation.
8. Tries killer balls often – anticipation, technique, passing, teamwork, determination, first touch, vision.
9. Shoots from distance – long shots, technique, composure, flair.
10. Shoots with power – long shots, technique, composure, strength.
11. Places shots – finishing, composure, anticipation, technique.
12. Curls ball – technique, anticipation, flair.
13. Likes to round keeper – flair, vision, technique, composure, balance, agility.
14. Likes to try to be beat offside trap – aanticipation, pace, off the ball, anticipation, agility, balance.
15. Plays with back to goal – work rate, balance, strength, first touch.
16. Marks opponent tightly – marking, concentration, positioning, stamina, work rate.
17. Plays one-twos – vision, teamwork, first touch, technique, passing.
18. Argues with officials – I’m sure you all get what this PPM is about!
19. Dictates tempo – passing, concentration, composure, first touch, teamwork, work rate, vision.
20. Comes deep to get ball – off the ball, technique, vision, passing, work rate.
21. Looks for pass rather than attempting to score – passing, teamwork, flair, vision, composure.
22. Likes to lob keeper – flair, vision, technique, anticipation.
23. Stops play – vision, teamwork, composure, anticipation, concentration.
24. Attempts overhead kicks – Flair, balance, agility, strength.
25. Dwells on ball – Composure, technique, concentration, vision, anticipation.
26. Plays no through balls – Doesn’t really need attributes for this.
27. Tries to play way out of trouble – Composure, dribbling, anticipation, balance, strength, work rate.
28. Knocks ball past opponent – pace, acceleration, balance, determination, agility work rate.
29. Avoids using weaker foot – Self explanatory.
30. Arrives late in opponent’s’ area – Off the ball, work rate, determination, stamina, pace.
31. Tries long-range free kicks – sstrength, free kick taking, technique, flair.
32. Stays back at all times – Don’t need attributes for this.
33. Does not dive into tackles – This is for players who have low tackling, determination, strength, bravery or positioning. Or if you need a player to stay on his feet.
34. Dives into tackles – concentration, composure, bravery, tackling, aggression, strength, balance.
35. Hugs line – dribbling, crossing, teamwork.
36. Cuts inside from both wings – finishing, dribbling, acceleration, technique, creativity, work rate.
37. Tries first time shots – finishing, anticipation, technique, flair.
38. Tries long-range passes – flair, vision, anticipation, passing, technique, first touch, composure.
39. Possesses long flat throw – strength, long throw, vision.
40. Hits free kicks with power – strength, free kick taking, technique.
41. Runs will ball rarely – don’t need attributes for this.
42. Likes to switch ball to other flank – technique, passing, teamwork, flair, concentration.
43. Static target man – composure, anticipation, concentration, finishing, strength, work rate.
44. Runs with ball often – dribbling, pace, technique, acceleration, balance, agility.
45. Attempts to develop weaker foot – self-explanatory but costs CA if successful.
46. Refrains from taking long shots – don’t need attributes for this really.
47. Uses long throw to start counter attacks – strength, long throw, vision.
48. Cuts inside from right wing – dribbling, acceleration, technique.
49. Cuts inside from left wing – dribbling, acceleration, technique.
50. Brings ball out of defence – composure, dribbling, technique, pace.
51. Crosses early – anticipation, crossing, vision, flair technique.

There seems to have been some changes to PPM’s this year which I have seen no one report yet. It seems that you can no longer teach a player specific PPM’s which seem contradictory, which makes sense. But on older versions you could teach players conflicting ones. Here are a list of ones you cannot have at the same time. You can only have one of these at any given time on a player;

• Runs with ball down left, runs with ball down the right, runs with ball through the centre, run with the ball rarely.
• Moves into channels, stays back at all times, static target man.
• Plays short simple passes, tries killer balls often, tries long-range passes, likes to switch the ball flanks.
• Shoots from distance, looks for pass rather than attempting to score, refrains from taking long shots.
• Places shots, shoots with power.
• Likes to round the keeper, runs with ball rarely.
• Plays with back to goal, likes to beat the offside trap.
• Tries to play way out of trouble, runs with ball rarely.
• Avoids using weaker foot, cuts inside from both wings.
• Tries long-range free kicks, refrains from taking long shots.
• Does not dives into tackles, dives into tackles.
• Hugs line, gets into oppositions area.
• Runs with ball rarely, tries to play way out of trouble, brings ball out of defence, runs with ball often, knocks ball past opponent, likes to round keeper, runs with ball down left, runs with ball down right, runs with ball through centre.
• Refrains from taking long shots, tries long ranged free kicks, shoots from distance, hits free kicks with power.
• Brings ball out of defence, run with ball rarely.
• Gets into opposition area, hugs line, arrives late in opponent’s area, stays back at all times.
• Get forward whenever possible, comes deep to get the ball, stays back at all times.
• Tries killer balls often, plays short simple passes, plays no through balls.
• Comes deep to get the ball, gets forward whenever possible.
• Knocks ball past opponent, runs with ball rarely.
• Tries long-range passes, plays short simple passes.
• Likes to switch ball other flank, plays short simple passes.
• Runs with ball often, runs with ball rarely.

You will have noticed that some of the these PPM’s are listed twice but in different combinations. I’ve tried to cover every possible combination that the game uses and doesn’t allow us to have. I think I’ve managed to remember them all. So from the above, you can only ever have anyone from any of those combinations at any given time.

I’m not going to waste time and suggest what positions the PPM’s are suited for or what roles as that is subjective and entirely down to what the user wants. However I will show you how I’ve set up for the 4-2-3-1 deep I use and the roles I’ve selected. Not everyone in the side has PPM’s as I don’t need everyone to have them. I also haven’t finished developing the players so some of them will still have some to learn, so rather than showing screenshots for now (I will at a later date in the development update posts) I’ll just write them down and list what I’m aiming for.

Defence

On one of my central defenders, I like the more technical of the two to have the brings the ball out of defence PPM’s. This allows me to have a ball playing defender without using the ball playing defender role. One of the reasons for this is I don’t want my defender launching through balls towards the more attacking players, which is what the ball playing defender role does. Instead by teaching the brings ball out of defence PPM, I have a player who steps up with the ball and joins the defensive midfielders/midfielders with the ball. Then he can pass to whomever without risking losing the ball. If he was a proper ball playing defender him launching through balls would bypass my defensive midfielders and this would hurt the Segundo Volante I use.

I’ve not taught any of the other defenders any PPM’s and not sure if I will be yet, I’m still undecided.

Midfield

The Segundo Volante is a player who will be heavily PPM based. The ones he will eventually have are;

Gets forward whenever possible.

• Dictates tempo.
• Plays one twos
• Runs with ball through the centre

The reason behind this is, I want the player to be aggressive and his role already allows this. However if I use a support Segundo Volante instead of the current attack duty I use, I shouldn’t lose any of this natural attacking ability. Another reason behind these PPM’s are that I want him to slow or speed play up when he sees fit.This will add another dimension to the role and allow the player to decide when he thinks play needs to be quickly or slower. It can be a really good counter attacking player trait. By allowing the player to also play one twos this will give me a quick change of pace at times and hopefully create space and movement, just by playing one twos.

The anchor man I use next to him, I can’t make my mind up is that will be the final role I settle on or not. So I haven’t taught any PPM’s yet as I don’t want to waste time teaching them when I’m not actually sure what I want from the role yet.

Attackers

The only attacking players who have PPM’s are the inside forward who plays on the left and the attacking midfielder. The inside forward has the following PPM’s;

• Cuts inside from the left wing
• Plays short simple passes
• Refrains from taking long shots

Nothing to trivial here, I’ve just gave him once that really enhance his role and stop him from shooting from distance as much as possible. That will hopefully allow him to be more involved in the build up phase and not waste possession or good moves by shooting. That’s another reason I taught him the plays short simple passes trait, to help reinforce this.

As for the attacking midfielder, he has the following player traits;

• Tries killer balls often
• Comes deep to get the ball
• Looks for the pass rather than attempting to score

This combination of settings allow him to be a playmaker and be more involved in the build up play than his role actually allows. I want him to be a natural playmaker rather than using one of the playmaking roles as I don’t want play to be forced through him. But rather, play goes through him because it’s the best option. Were as the playmaker roles attract the ball as that’s what the role does, it forces play to flow through them more than perhaps it normally would. But due to me wanting everything to be natural, these are the reasoning behind these traits.

Those are all I use in the current set. I’ve only mentioned them to give you a general idea of possible combinations you can use in your own saves. I hope you’ve enjoyed the article and look forward to hearing what kind of combination of PPM’s you use in your own games and why.

[Cleon]

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[Cleon]

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[Cleon]

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[Cleon]

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[yonko]

Excellent start. I love these kinds of threads. I will be following for sure. Even though I already have a general idea how you like to develop players, you always spring a few surprises and show something new to learn.

[craiigman]

This is all well and good @Cleon, but have you started Lucifer yet? That is the question.

[Cleon]

4 minutes ago, craiigman said:

This is all well and good @Cleon, but have you started Lucifer yet? That is the question.

 No I still have 1 episode of Punisher left. Also good to put a forum name to those on Twitter 

8 minutes ago, yonko said:

Excellent start. I love these kinds of threads. I will be following for sure. Even though I already have a general idea how you like to develop players, you always spring a few surprises and show something new to learn.

Thanks. I think the way I develop players has changed slightly now. Not much but I've noticed with the medical centre it gives me a better idea on when I'm over training/playing the youngsters. So I'm more wary this year in over training those who are playing regular when they're a young age as I don't want injuries. Be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few season.

 

In a future instalment I might write about PPM's if people are interested. List the attributes I look for before deciding who to give what PPM to. And also how I decide which PPM will enhance the players role for what I'm creating.

[Tommo1]

49 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Already though, you can see he is unhappy with the extra workload.

I've noticed that players unhappiness at extra training or whether they feel training is worthwhile is a lot more prevalent in this years game. 

Have you noticed this too or has Rodrygo been a one off?

[Cleon]

3 minutes ago, Tommo1 said:

I've noticed that players unhappiness at extra training or whether they feel training is worthwhile is a lot more prevalent in this years game. 

Have you noticed this too or has Rodrygo been a one off?

Normally it's personality related for 90% of players. Everyone moaning on my current save are balanced personalities which lack a high level of professionalism. 

[yonko]

2 hours ago, Cleon said:

 No I still have 1 episode of Punisher left. Also good to put a forum name to those on Twitter 

Thanks. I think the way I develop players has changed slightly now. Not much but I've noticed with the medical centre it gives me a better idea on when I'm over training/playing the youngsters. So I'm more wary this year in over training those who are playing regular when they're a young age as I don't want injuries. Be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few season.

 

In a future instalment I might write about PPM's if people are interested. List the attributes I look for before deciding who to give what PPM to. And also how I decide which PPM will enhance the players role for what I'm creating.

I figured you would be paying attention to the medical center. It makes sense, doesn't? If certain youngsters are getting regular playing time with the first team, then it's logical to reduce their training workload as other first team players to prevent injuries. The playing time experience will be enough for them to increase their ability and the training is just going to distribute the gains according to the training focus. I'm assuming it still works this way. The medical center provides useful aid now, for sure. 

In my Liverpool save I'm developing TAA and Woodburn as first team players. TAA plays as a starter even due to Clyne's injury so his training is light, same as someone established like Coutinho because I need those players fresh and above 90% fitness to play regularly. Woodburn can train harder because he plays less frequently and more of a rotation player at this stage due to other better options. Once Clyne returns from his injury and become my starter, TAA will play less and I will up his training workload....if necessary. Or maybe he won't allow Clyne to get his starting spot back.

It would be interesting if you did a piece on the PPM's and attributes related to them.

[Fosse]

Good stuff this thread, the Ajax training series was the best thing you've written so I'm looking forward to how it develops.

 

9 hours ago, Cleon said:

Also good to put a forum name to those on Twitter 

I'm the whiney Leicester fan 

[craigd84]

12 hours ago, yonko said:

I figured you would be paying attention to the medical center. It makes sense, doesn't? If certain youngsters are getting regular playing time with the first team, then it's logical to reduce their training workload as other first team players to prevent injuries. The playing time experience will be enough for them to increase their ability and the training is just going to distribute the gains according to the training focus. I'm assuming it still works this way. The medical center provides useful aid now, for sure. 

In my Liverpool save I'm developing TAA and Woodburn as first team players. TAA plays as a starter even due to Clyne's injury so his training is light, same as someone established like Coutinho because I need those players fresh and above 90% fitness to play regularly. Woodburn can train harder because he plays less frequently and more of a rotation player at this stage due to other better options. Once Clyne returns from his injury and become my starter, TAA will play less and I will up his training workload....if necessary. Or maybe he won't allow Clyne to get his starting spot back.

It would be interesting if you did a piece on the PPM's and attributes related to them.

Sorry to hijack but yonko when clyne is fit you will still play trent more!

[Pablo Sanchez]

Fantastic start cleon. 

 

Love santos but wish you could do another random club sometime

[Cleon]

11 minutes ago, Pablo Sanchez said:

Fantastic start cleon. 

 

Love santos but wish you could do another random club sometime

I only play clubs I like or have a connection with or I can't invest. Last year I only really played as Sheffield FC down in the lower leagues and this year I've been solely playing as Sheffield United. Both of those threads can be found here;

Sheffield FC stuff https://teaandbusquets.com/3-5-2-chronicles

In the last few years I've wrote about Swansea, Boca, River Plate, Sunderland, Paysandu, Club Universidad de Chile and Paysandu. Not sure how many more clubs you want me to play and write about 

Plus the club I use doesn't really matter, it's what is being discussed that is the key component

[Pablo Sanchez]

Nice that's cool. 

 

Was just curious. Reckon if you had a crack in australia or something you would be shocked!

 

Good luck with this santos training analysis

[Cleon]

Just now, Pablo Sanchez said:

Nice that's cool. 

 

Was just curious. Reckon if you had a crack in australia or something you would be shocked!

 

Good luck with this santos training analysis

Shocked by what? I used to play as Central Coast Mariners due to the link up we had with them

[Pablo Sanchez]

The salary cap and marquees!! 

 

Yeah my local club is the Brisbane Roar!

 

Good fun

 

[yonko]

@Cleon I saw your video with @Rashidi on YouTube and commented there, btw. 

I was wondering, when choosing a coach to train a PPM (Plays one-twos), can the same coach teach the same PPM to multiple players or would that play a role in how successful the process is? And the second part of that question, does the successful learning depend on minimum threshold of key attributes for certain PPMs? Do attributes like ambition, professionalism, determination and versatility play a role in that?

[Cleon]

13 minutes ago, yonko said:

@Cleon I saw your video with @Rashidi on YouTube and commented there, btw. 

I was wondering, when choosing a coach to train a PPM (Plays one-twos), can the same coach teach the same PPM to multiple players or would that play a role in how successful the process is? And the second part of that question, does the successful learning depend on minimum threshold of key attributes for certain PPMs? Do attributes like ambition, professionalism, determination and versatility play a role in that?

Sadly no I don't believe asking the same coach to do multiple players at the same time does alter the success rate. At least not from any experiments I've done. As for the second part it doesn't depend on a threshold but players with higher determination makes it easier to learn PPM's. I believe that is the most important attributes for success from what SI have said.

[yonko]

34 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Sadly no I don't believe asking the same coach to do multiple players at the same time does alter the success rate. At least not from any experiments I've done. As for the second part it doesn't depend on a threshold but players with higher determination makes it easier to learn PPM's. I believe that is the most important attributes for success from what SI have said.

Good to know. Thanks.

[kandersson]

Woah wasn't aware of that Rodrygo guy, he looks amazing. In my Brazil save Santos haven't developed him very well, he's a decent rotation player for them at 20 but no wonderkid really and only has two U20 caps. Also the first time I see someone dubbed the new Neymar!

Maybe I'm asking to reveal spoilers here but which role are you planning for him? IF in the 4-2-3-1?

[phnompenhandy]

6 hours ago, Cleon said:

players with higher determination makes it easier to learn PPM's. I believe that is the most important attributes for success from what SI have said.

I never knew that - explains a lot!

[kev_portland]

On 11/21/2017 at 11:10, yonko said:

...

It would be interesting if you did a piece on the PPM's and attributes related to them.

I second yonko and would find a piece on PPMs / attributes really interesting.

[ferrarinseb]

Many would love to see a Piece of PPM's and their relevant Attributes @Cleon

Hope you do some thing about it in the near future  

[Lobaeux4]

Yes, I would love to see a PPM piece as well.  I think that’s where I struggle the most when considering training, the real why and selection of PPMs. 

[Cleon]

Post 2 updated with the PPM guide

[Coolio5]

Which are the 7 ppms that can only be gained via tutoring @Cleon?

[burnum]

Thanks for your insight, Cleon. Good read, as always.

 

About those conflicting PPMs:

In my opinion 'cuts inside' and avoids using weaker foot' are not necessarily conflicting. Arjen Robben is a prime example for this. He's a prototypical IF in the AMR position. He's left-footed and always tries to cut inside, yet he very rarely uses his right foot.

Shouldn't 'cuts inside' and 'hugs line' be conflicting?

[Cleon]

6 minutes ago, Coolio5 said:

Which are the 7 ppms that can only be gained via tutoring @Cleon?

It lists them underneath that sentence, not sure how you missed them. And it's only on games older that FM15.

1 minute ago, burnum said:

Thanks for your insight, Cleon. Good read, as always.

 

About those conflicting PPMs:

In my opinion 'cuts inside' and avoids using weaker foot' are not necessarily conflicting. Arjen Robben is a prime example for this. He's a prototypical IF in the AMR position. He's left-footed and always tries to cut inside, yet he very rarely uses his right foot.

Shouldn't 'cuts inside' and 'hugs line' be conflicting?

It's not me who says they are conflicting, it's the game that doesn't allow it.

[Bigpapa42]

Another great addition to the thread. Tons of useful information, as always, Cleon. Much respect. 

Although I rarely get far enough into a save to really have it work, I've always looked at PPMs as another way to shape how your side plays. 

[Rooneye]

Wow some of the attributes needed for certain PPMs I would not have thought were relevant.

Like Tries Killer Balls needing Determination, I wouldnt have thought that.

I didn't realize strength affected shot power and also helps with overhead kicks and long range free kicks.

Great post as usual, I'm learning a lot from you.

[Bigpapa42]

A small story on player development from my most recent two saves, just to highlight the importance of personality and match time. I've had two saves with the same club on FM18 post-beta. The club the smallest in the top division of a good sized nation, and its basically the polar opposite of Santos - poor facilities, poor coaching, and a dearth of young players with potential. The only real prospect at the club is a 21 year old central defender. I will be polite and just state that he is not ideal as a prospect or central defender, but he has potential to grow and his nationality is important. Also worth noting that he doesn't have random attributes or potential, so he is identical save to save. 

In my first save, I didn't trust him to start regularly so I signed a veteran defender with a good personality. No an ideal tutor but the personality was an improvement. Tutoring worked, but the prospect ended up with either Fairly Ambitious or still Balanced personality. Perhaps more importantly, I didn't play the prospect all that often. As a result, he didn't improve all that much. He went up maybe 2-3 CA points in the first year, then got an injury of several months that knocked 1-2 of those points off. So he essentially improved very minimally. 

Second attempt with the club, I wanted to do better with that particular player. I was able to find another veteran defender, one with a Professional Personality, and high Determination to boot. Some good PPMs and some bad. The tutoring worked and the prospect ended up with a Driven personality but pretty good levels of Professionalism and Ambition. And he managed to take on one of the less desirable PPMs. For the first couple months, I had him play for the B side, which is in an active lower division. I'm not quite thru the first season and he has played fairly regular first team matches for the last few months. His CA has gone up 10 points. He is slowly rounding into a more solid defender. He might never reach his PA and become a really good central defender for this level. But he is already an immensely more useful player in this save. Another 8-10 points of CA in the right attributes and he could actually be an automatic first choice for the side. And he will make a great tutor in just a couple of years. 

Personality. Matches. 

[yonko]

@Cleon 

I wanted to ask you about couple of PPMs:

Plays short simple passes – passing, technique, first touch, anticipation.

Why anticipation? Isn't composure more appropriate here? Or in addition?

Likes to switch ball to other flank – technique, passing, teamwork, flair, concentration.

How about vision for this PPM?

Plays one-twos – vision, teamwork, first touch, technique, passing.

Off the ball too? Anticipation?

Gets forward whenever possible – work rate, stamina, teamwork, pace/acceleration.

Off the ball here too?

[Cleon]

Quote

I wanted to ask you about couple of PPMs:

Plays short simple passes – passing, technique, first touch, anticipation.

Why anticipation? Isn't composure more appropriate here? Or in addition?

So he can anticipate the players movement around him so it allows him to still play the short pass and not mistime things. I didn't put composure as I don't believe it that important for this unless the player doesn't have much time, in which case I'd likely not teach him this PPM if he was under any kind of pressure. Unless we are speaking elite players who would pull it off in all circumstances, then I might have added composure.

Quote

Likes to switch ball to other flank – technique, passing, teamwork, flair, concentration.

How about vision for this PPM?

It can help yeah but he doesn't really need to see all available options, he just needs to switch flanks. 

Quote

Plays one-twos – vision, teamwork, first touch, technique, passing.

Off the ball too? Anticipation?

Off the ball is a good shout, anticipation maybe not so as I believe that part would fall on the player receiving the pass initially. The onus would be on him to anticipate the run on the player, rather than the one with the PPM.

Quote

Gets forward whenever possible – work rate, stamina, teamwork, pace/acceleration.

Off the ball here too?

You can add that too. It's when trying to do 'lists' when it concerns attributes because you can never have too many good attributes. So trying to keep the list short with maybe 4-6 attributes you can always make a case to add more. But I tried to keep it short and basic for what I look for  rather than having a list of 12+ attributes for all PPM's as I don't find that helpful for others.

[phnompenhandy]

17 hours ago, Cleon said:

Post 2 updated with the PPM guide

Wonderful. I was really hoping you'd say more about the lovely Segundo Volante. The current pair I use in the role don't look like they can progress much further, but last night a 16-year old came through my academy who really looks the part. I'll get started on 'dictates tempo' right away. I particularly appreciate you suggestion that the PPMs can allow him to maintain a support role as I feel the attacking role compromises my defence.

[Cleon]

8 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Wonderful. I was really hoping you'd say more about the lovely Segundo Volante. The current pair I use in the role don't look like they can progress much further, but last night a 16-year old came through my academy who really looks the part. I'll get started on 'dictates tempo' right away. I particularly appreciate you suggestion that the PPMs can allow him to maintain a support role as I feel the attacking role compromises my defence.

I have an article planned on the Segundo Volante but no time scale yet. That's why I've only been mentioning him briefly as I feel it needs it's own article to fully understand what he does.

[nick1408]

31 minutes ago, Cleon said:

So he can anticipate the players movement around him so it allows him to still play the short pass and not mistime things. I didn't put composure as I don't believe it that important for this unless the player doesn't have much time, in which case I'd likely not teach him this PPM if he was under any kind of pressure. Unless we are speaking elite players who would pull it off in all circumstances, then I might have added composure.

And here I was thinking this was a PPM for players that are poor at passing!

[ferrarinseb]

Great thing you want to give us some more Info about Segundo Volante, hoping to see more info in future  

 

[Cleon]

1 minute ago, nick1408 said:

And here I was thinking this was a PPM for players that are poor at passing!

It can be, but I don't utilise it that way. I use it on players I want to recycle possession or for players I don't want to try more direct types of passing like on the IF I have it on.

[craiigman]

On 21/11/2017 at 16:50, Cleon said:

 No I still have 1 episode of Punisher left. Also good to put a forum name to those on Twitter 

Thanks. I think the way I develop players has changed slightly now. Not much but I've noticed with the medical centre it gives me a better idea on when I'm over training/playing the youngsters. So I'm more wary this year in over training those who are playing regular when they're a young age as I don't want injuries. Be interesting to see how it all plays out in a few season.

 

In a future instalment I might write about PPM's if people are interested. List the attributes I look for before deciding who to give what PPM to. And also how I decide which PPM will enhance the players role for what I'm creating.

3rd of December now, I take it you're on what, season 2 of Lucifer?

Haha, really liking this one though mate, PPM's have never been on my attention list. Probably explains a lot of things! Good work, looking forward to the next post.

[nick1408]

I look forward to seeing the fulfilment of the Santos juniors.

[Dingusen]

On 21.11.2017 at 17:34, Cleon said:

1. Moves into channels – off the ball, work rate, creativity.

Creativity? Sure you dont mean anticipation?

[Cleon]

44 minutes ago, Dingusen said:

Creativity? Sure you dont mean anticipation?

No or I'd have said anticipation 

I actually meant vision, that's what that attribute used to be called and sometimes I slip up and still call it 'creativity'. 

[Squire]

On 21.11.2017 at 17:34, Cleon said:

Squad personality also plays a part in player development so it’s worth taking a few seconds to learn what it does.

On past versions (FM15 and below. This was introduced for FM16) of the game this didn’t have an impact on player development but now that’s changed. So how does it work? It’s basically an automatic effect that is similar to tutoring but not as powerful.

The effects can be good or bad and are limited solely to the attribute related to the personality type. Eg. Professional = Professionalism (hidden attribute), Determination = Determination attribute and so on. So this differs from tutoring because it only works on one attribute, the one listed on the screen highlighted above. The age cut-off depends on the players  adaptability (hidden attribute) but the upper age limit is 24. So if the player has a low adaptability attribute then his cut off age will be before 24 by quite a bit.

Are you sure that it only works for the one attribute that is used for the squad personality description?

My squad is described as 'Highly professional', but the determination attribute of some young players (who's not been tutored) is changing sometimes. Players with high determination see this attribute decrease, and vice versa. My assistant tells me that the squad's general character has had an effect, or, in the case of decrease in determination, that the squad's less desirable characteristics has rubbed off.

A few player personalities have also changed without me doing anything. E.g. one player went from 'Light-hearted' to 'Fairly professional'. Another from 'Professional' to 'Fairly professional'. Hopefully there won't be more of my 'Professional' players being 'demoted' to 'Fairly professional'. That's not what I would associate with a 'Highly professional' squad.

[phnompenhandy]

I think what happens is those players whose personalities are strongly different to the 'groupthink' get pulled towards the centre, so if the squad personality is low on professionalism and determination, players high in those attributes will see decreases, and vice versa. Thus, a 'professional' squad may still drag a 'highly professional' player down a notch  - well if they are young anyway.

This means that bringing in new players whether through transfers or the academy will affect the balance. I don't buy players, relying wholly on the academy kids, but what I've learnt to do is assess player personalities first, before taking much stock of attributes. Kids with low determination and deemed low on professionalism and ambition are simply not given contracts and hurriedly shifted out. At the same time, squad players deemed to be lowering the tone of the group were kicked out. As a result, I may have missed out on some skillful individuals, but the squad as a whole are highly professional and give me as a manager precious little grief.

[ReMeDy]

This is going to sound dumb, but I'm trying to create a team full of jerks who tackle hard and like to argue with officials. Problem is apparently I can't train someone to argue with officials, unless I'm overlooking it somewhere. I'm very disappointed by this.

[SpartyOn]

46 minutes ago, ReMeDy said:

This is going to sound dumb, but I'm trying to create a team full of jerks who tackle hard and like to argue with officials. Problem is apparently I can't train someone to argue with officials, unless I'm overlooking it somewhere. I'm very disappointed by this.

Don't think you can train that, but I believe it can be passed along through tutoring. Maybe you can sign Joey Barton and have him instill his values in your squad.

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, ReMeDy said:

This is going to sound dumb, but I'm trying to create a team full of jerks who tackle hard and like to argue with officials. Problem is apparently I can't train someone to argue with officials, unless I'm overlooking it somewhere. I'm very disappointed by this.

If you're going to be that silly, there's always the in-game editor!