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Hi guys,

Back on FM17, playing as West Ham and am really struggling to make my AM (Lanzini) have an impact on the game when playing him in my 4231. I have tried him in various roles and watched matches but I can't quite see what is going wrong.

I play 4231 wide with TIs of shorter passing and dribbling less.

Off the top of my head (because I'm at work right now), I now play a BWM-S and a DLP-S behind him but I have played different combinations in MC before and it hasn't worked. I think when I played a DLP-S and a CM-D he was more effective but that was just in the first few months of this 2 year now save.

The rest of the side is playing well, particularly the wide players but the striker is sometimes underperforming and this could be a knock-on effect of Lanzini struggling.

When I get home, I can post screenshots but can pretty much remember what roles and duties I play off hand if anyone needs to know.

Would appreciate any help, cheers fellas :thup:

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yes especially attack duty AMC behaviour is really strange, doing opposite to what you would expect and what role description says. for example shadow striker should be a forward who's droping deep when team is defending but he does the opposite, offering very little in defense and in attack ha acts more like playmaker. hopefully this has changed for fm18.

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I've found a CM-A with the following enabled to be hugely effective for my AMC type players.

  • Shoot Less Often
  • Close Down More
  • More Risky Passes
  • Move into Channels

Maybe try dropping your AMC back to CM-A?

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It's hard to give an answer, because the provided information is limited. My guess would be that by using two support duties in central midfield, you're over crowding the available space in oppositions part of the field. This probably leads to the AM not having enough space to move in and therefore under-performing. 

 

But then again, not enough information provided to give a good answer. 

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3 hours ago, jorgvandervloed said:

It's hard to give an answer, because the provided information is limited. My guess would be that by using two support duties in central midfield, you're over crowding the available space in oppositions part of the field. This probably leads to the AM not having enough space to move in and therefore under-performing. 

 

But then again, not enough information provided to give a good answer. 

No problem, here are some screens, have only just got back home.

41878edbfc5f26fe8eb05015cde824c6.png

My set up. I'm not sold on the MC's set up. El Neny and Noble are the players to usually play there, I have also experimented with a CM-S there. The wide players make a big impact most of the time but the AMC underperforms on a consistent basis.

b4fdbbef2b18276ed784998558d973ad.png

His current roles and PIs.

03ad9ee1f037d7989e9844b50e0e76c7.png

Lanzini's profile if you were wondering. 

I just can't put my finger on why he isn't performing really, if anyone needs any more screens, let me know.

Cheers.

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Dodgy midfield to one side, what's the actual issue with Lanzini?  You say he's struggling to have an impact on the game, but what specifically?  (btw, the answer is not "he gets low ratings" ;)).

The team is performing well so what's Lanzini failing at?  How is he not measuring up to your expectations?

Anyway, on a related subject, are you playing Hernandez as a Complete Forward?  (Full disclosure, I'm a West Ham fan so think carefully about that answer :D).

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Striker may be too far away, try support duty, and this amc doesnt have good balance, so he may have issues under pressure, coupled with low strength.

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3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Dodgy midfield to one side, what's the actual issue with Lanzini?  You say he's struggling to have an impact on the game, but what specifically?  (btw, the answer is not "he gets low ratings" ;)).

The team is performing well so what's Lanzini failing at?  How is he not measuring up to your expectations?

Anyway, on a related subject, are you playing Hernandez as a Complete Forward?  (Full disclosure, I'm a West Ham fan so think carefully about that answer :D).

He has made 1 assist in 14(5) appearances this season, I expected quite a few more if I'm honest. When I watch the games, he seems to drop too deep (imo) and therefore is not involved in the attacks. When looking at his average positions though, this does not seem to be the case. I don't think the issue is exclusive to Lanzini though as whoever I have tried in this position has been very similarly ineffective.

Hernandez is playing as a complete forward yes, he's got 10 in 16 this season and was third top scorer in the league this season. You think he may be playing in the wrong role?

Also, what's wrong with the midfield? ;) I am starting to think that the BWM role should be called the Yellow card midfielder, that's all I know :p 

3 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Striker may be too far away, try support duty, and this amc doesnt have good balance, so he may have issues under pressure, coupled with low strength.

I thought if I'd play a support duty that the striker would drop deep and take up the space the AM was operating in?

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10 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

The CF is on attack duty.. he is going to prioritise attacking more than dropping deep

You said to try support duty but I was replying why I hadn't tried it.

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1 hour ago, oakesypvfc said:

He has made 1 assist in 14(5) appearances this season, I expected quite a few more if I'm honest. When I watch the games, he seems to drop too deep (imo) and therefore is not involved in the attacks. When looking at his average positions though, this does not seem to be the case. I don't think the issue is exclusive to Lanzini though as whoever I have tried in this position has been very similarly ineffective.

Hernandez is playing as a complete forward yes, he's got 10 in 16 this season and was third top scorer in the league this season. You think he may be playing in the wrong role?

Also, what's wrong with the midfield? ;) I am starting to think that the BWM role should be called the Yellow card midfielder, that's all I know :p 

I thought if I'd play a support duty that the striker would drop deep and take up the space the AM was operating in?

I find AMCs role to be the most effective especially because of the extra help in defensive phase. in attack he still gets into the box and off the ball movement is quite similar to attack duty AM. with attack duty I would like him to be second striker when we are on the ball but even a shadow striker plays far too deep in attack. he should make early forward runs in transition and play as a forward in attacking third but I'm not really sure if that's possible? I admit I didn't try the engache role yet.

Edited by Mitja

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38 minutes ago, oakesypvfc said:

You said to try support duty but I was replying why I hadn't tried it.

That's my point you haven't really tried it yet. When he is attacking more than dropping around and moving about...then he could be isolating himself, That and/or your AMC has poor balance and strength to hold players off while trying to make the pass or he isn't having time to make the pass.

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53 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

That's my point you haven't really tried it yet. When he is attacking more than dropping around and moving about...then he could be isolating himself, That and/or your AMC has poor balance and strength to hold players off while trying to make the pass or he isn't having time to make the pass.

I'm so confused right now

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Hernandez has 10 in 16?  Perhaps you should have led with that instead of "the striker is sometimes underperforming" :D.

Anyway, back to Lanzini.  You have him as an AM-support with Move into Channels + More Risky Passes.  He also has PPMs to Play One Twos and Run With Ball Often.  So it's "Hey Manuel, I want you to start from a deep position, carry the ball forwards into the channels but while you do that play some one twos and hit some through balls as well."

Lanzini tweets a confused face.

Lots of stuff going on there, possibly a bit too much.  Alternatively, if you want to get him more involved in play, have you considered one of the three playmaker type roles at AMC?

Personally I think there's a bit more going on than just an issue with Lanzini's role, but start small and make some tweaks there first.  See how you get on and if you still have problems check out Cleon's 4-2-3-1 thread.

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5 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Hernandez has 10 in 16?  Perhaps you should have led with that instead of "the striker is sometimes underperforming" :D.

Anyway, back to Lanzini.  You have him as an AM-support with Move into Channels + More Risky Passes.  He also has PPMs to Play One Twos and Run With Ball Often.  So it's "Hey Manuel, I want you to start from a deep position, carry the ball forwards into the channels but while you do that play some one twos and hit some through balls as well."

Lanzini tweets a confused face.

Lots of stuff going on there, possibly a bit too much.  Alternatively, if you want to get him more involved in play, have you considered one of the three playmaker type roles at AMC?

Personally I think there's a bit more going on than just an issue with Lanzini's role, but start small and make some tweaks there first.  See how you get on and if you still have problems check out Cleon's 4-2-3-1 thread.

Yeah, I get you, but wouldn't changing him to one of the playmaker roles give him even more to do, or would they compliment his PPMs more than my PIs.

I think I am going to experiment with two CM's that sit, rather than one that roams as well as that could be getting in the way a bit. Maybe if I have two sitting in the CM slots, this will give Manuel more space?

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I found that in FM17 in certain situations giving an AMC a moves into channels instruction was highly detrimental to his performance when you are playing with advanced wide players and a CF who also moves into channels.  Basically instead of occupying central space and dictating play he moves out into space already occupied by the striker or inside forward and just generally gets in the way.  It might not be the case in your system but it is certainly worth watching out for, if nothing else remove move into channels and see if things improve.  I haven't got FM18 yet so I don't know if this is the case in FM18 but it might be worth checking out.

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19 hours ago, herne79 said:

Hernandez has 10 in 16?  Perhaps you should have led with that instead of "the striker is sometimes underperforming" :D.

Anyway, back to Lanzini.  You have him as an AM-support with Move into Channels + More Risky Passes.  He also has PPMs to Play One Twos and Run With Ball Often.  So it's "Hey Manuel, I want you to start from a deep position, carry the ball forwards into the channels but while you do that play some one twos and hit some through balls as well."

Lanzini tweets a confused face.

Lots of stuff going on there, possibly a bit too much.  Alternatively, if you want to get him more involved in play, have you considered one of the three playmaker type roles at AMC?

Personally I think there's a bit more going on than just an issue with Lanzini's role, but start small and make some tweaks there first.  See how you get on and if you still have problems check out Cleon's 4-2-3-1 thread.

Plus "As a team I want you all to dribble less", at this point Lanzini scratches his head and thinks "awww but thats what I do best!".  A bit like Sterling in Pellegrini's Man City where he wanted players to take 2 touches at most rather than taking players on by dribbling at them.

I'm also looking at the MC pair, both support duties so will be in a similar area to Lanzini.  Are they performing a similar job to Lanzini?

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Personally, i would set Lanzini as either Eganche or Trequartista. 

At least ONE of the cm's set to defensive. I would perhaps set the defensive cm to a DLP, so he can be a ball magnet in defensive situations and then Lanzini as the Eganche ot Treq to be the prime creator in the attacking phases.

Also PPM's are massive on this game and really make a players role come to life.

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From my experience, AMC and inside forwards don't work out well together.
It has to be wingers. If your striker is a classic no9, AMC should be in supportive role.
If you have a false9 or such, then he can go to attack duty.

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I've struggled to get Eriksen working in a 4231 in the AM role so just dropped it back to a 4141 using a DLPd Cms CMA and tailored the 2 CM roles with PI's

I know I'm losing some hardcoded behaviours through not selecting the specialist roles but in enjoying using generic roles  and tailoring them with ppms/pi's 

One of the best things I've embraced this year is ignoring best opposition out role suggestions and just playing who has the attributes to play where I want.

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1 hour ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

I've struggled to get Eriksen working in a 4231 in the AM role so just dropped it back to a 4141 using a DLPd Cms CMA and tailored the 2 CM roles with PI's

I know I'm losing some hardcoded behaviours through not selecting the specialist roles but in enjoying using generic roles  and tailoring them with ppms/pi's 

One of the best things I've embraced this year is ignoring best opposition out role suggestions and just playing who has the attributes to play where I want.

In FM 17 i had a lot of sucess with Dele Alli as AMC - AM-S role.

Cheers,
Bitner 

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9 minutes ago, Bitner said:

In FM 17 i had a lot of sucess with Dele Alli as AMC - AM-S role.

Cheers,
Bitner 

My 17 tactics don't work as the APs played wide and a AM seem to both play very differently in 18

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2 hours ago, treble_yell_:-) said:

My 17 tactics don't work as the APs played wide and a AM seem to both play very differently in 18

Fair, i'm struggling to make my AM play well in FM18 aswell. Both Miki and Lukaku are underperforming, so i'm trying to tweak them a lil.

My tweaks actually worked. Lukaku is a CF-S and Miki a AM-A

Cheers,
Bitner 

Edited by Bitner
adding info,.

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