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Zanman777

My take on Football Manager nowadays

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I used to buy Football Manager every year. The new features used to appeal to me, and I always hoped the game overall would be honed and enhanced.

In the late years, I have felt buying the newest Football Manager just isn't worth it. Many times, the new features aren't exactly new: there's just a GUI jiggling, showing "new" features that, truth be told, were already there previously, they just weren't so visible.

This year, I think I'm not going to buy FM 2018, because 55 € for what seems like only a patch with one more feature ("dynamics") isn't going to cut it for me. Besides, having backwards incompatibility (regarding savegames) should have been taken care of long, long ago. 

I'm tired of battling Football Manager, it's a nightmare. It's simply impossibly hard to play to me. And each year, whenever someone complains things are getting way too complicated, all the vets and pros come out saying "I find it rather easy actually". Ok, good for you. I've studied more Football Manager meta-information than all the other games combined (and I've played Path of Exile, Diablo...). And I still struggle like a noob. My real life job is dozens of times simpler to do than playing this game. I have to keep memos everywhere to remember appraising X for his goal, checking Y's training level, comparing the opposition to my team... If I don't use memos, I forget half of it and the team crumbles down. It's like I'm babysitting a class of 20-35 year olds. 

Anyway, that's my input on the game. It should be a game. A game is supposed to be fun. Not a freakin' job. 

Maybe this is a rant, I don't know. But it's my input on the game. Maybe nobody cares. Hopefully not. 

Sincerely, you guys have my uttermost respect. I have no idea how you guys manage to be successful so effortlessly in this game. I feel truly humbled (no sarcasm, I promise). I just mustn't be smart enough for this game, I don't know...

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Your thinking too much in to it. I said to someone yesterday all you need is tactics, players and momentum wins you games. Everything from player chats and press conferences has next to no impact, their just their as part of the football manager experience. I don’t speak one to one with my players unless it’s training once a month. 

The game is rock solid, but even harder if you think too much in to it

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So an opinion on the new game, from someone who hasn't bought or perhaps even played said game?  I'm convinced.

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Just now, forameuss said:

So an opinion on the new game, from someone who hasn't bought or perhaps even played said game?  I'm convinced.

I didn't say it was an opinion on the new game...

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2 minutes ago, forameuss said:

So an opinion on the new game, from someone who hasn't bought or perhaps even played said game?  I'm convinced.

He may have played the demo though, as I am doing at the moment.

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The only time I talk to my players is to praise them if they have done remarkably in training. I leave all team talks, press conferences etc to my assistant manager.

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3 minutes ago, Zanman777 said:

I didn't say it was an opinion on the new game...

Well you mentioned choosing not to buy FM18 - which is absolutely fair enough - but what is that based on?  If you're willing to create a whole new thread complaining about things, then clearly you care about FM, so I would've thought you'd have tried the demo rather than write it off completely and tell everyone how you've written it off completely.

Oh and backwards compatibility of saves will never happen for perfectly good reasons, so I wouldn't hold your breath for that.

EDIT: And the game itself really isn't as complex as people make out.  It can be, if you really want it to be, but it's completely wrong to suggest that it has to be.  I've played the last few versions paying little attention to press conferences, media, player interaction, tactics, and sometimes even transfers, and I get on fine.  I have no interest in reading screads of tactics forum posts, and while not being brilliant at the game, I don't need to completely write it off without doing that reading.

Edited by forameuss

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You clearly haven't really looked into tactics that much. If you go to any "tactics master" thread (Cleon, Rashidi, O-zil, etc) you'll find that they lay out the thinking behind their tactics and how you can apply that to your own. Or worst off, download a tactic, play in Full or Comprehensive and actually watch what's happening. Is your full back advancing enough, is your DM sitting deep enough to cover your back line.

Things like this are more common sense than anything. If you focus on a simple tactic, focus on squad building you should have at least moderate success.

 

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make a tactic like what they use in real life. Like Klopps 433 high pressing high defensive line is easy to replicate as is Mourinhos 4231 counter attacking formation

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The beauty of this 'game' is that it's a simulation and you can literally make it what you want it to be. Don't want to do the training or tactics then you dont have to, dont want to bother with transfers and just want to do training and tactics then you have that option etc etc, You even have an database editor to further customize things. I don't think i've ever come across anyone saying it's too easy. There's always a challenge depending on how challenging you want to make things for yourself. Someone may consider winning the world cup or champions league the pinnacle of the game but others may consider just surviving relegation in the lowest possible division as their pinnacle. The objective of the game is determined by you and information you deem important and needed is determined by you. I honestly think you need to try the demo and maybe assess what you like doing in the game and what you dont like doing and tailor the way you play to that preference. 

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Yes, I do care about FM. And I always check the videos, blogs and news announcing the new features, the previews and the reviews. Each and every year I feel less and less improvement is delivered for the same 55 €. 55 euros is a lot of money. And the things that really matter are always never attended in the new iterations of Football Manager. Making sideline teamtalks actually mean anything during the match; providing more tools for organizing the screen, the stats, in the way you see fit; setting up customizable alarms / triggers / searches / comparisons (ie stuff like "warn me with a pop up if the team misses more than 5 crosses", or "let me compare the pass completion ratio with all the central midfielders of this league", or "let me compare the pass attribute of this right defender with the other right defenders in my league").

Football Manager has a LOT of potential. With external tools, and a moddable approach to the game, maybe the tools I suggested would be feasible by the community. But Football Manager is very static. Very enclosed. 

Every year I see the announcement of "Wow, new animations, better graphic engine". It still looks like the nineties. And that's okay, since the playerbase has already accepted that watching a match in FM has nothing to do with playing FIFA. But they focus on improving the animations when sincerely I don't see much of an improvement since 4-5 years ago.. Maybe that's just me... There are other things that would make a blast if they added / tweaked, besides the graphics... 

Edited by Zanman777

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It simply means, this game is not meant for you anymore. You've grown out from it, for whatever reasons - maybe you'e  grown older and have different views or commitment in life. Because of your past affection with Fm,  you are ranting now that the realism of this game, is like baby sitting a class - which once in the past you enjoyed doing. 

Yes, baby sitting.  that's what real football managers do. And this is a football management simulation.

Instead of ranting here, you should play other games like shadow of mordor or assassins creed. I heard they have great loot boxes in there. 

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25 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

It simply means, this game is not meant for you anymore. You've grown out from it, for whatever reasons - maybe you'e  grown older and have different views or commitment in life. Because of your past affection with Fm,  you are ranting now that the realism of this game, is like baby sitting a class - which once in the past you enjoyed doing. 

Yes, baby sitting.  that's what real football managers do. And this is a football management simulation.

Instead of ranting here, you should play other games like shadow of mordor or assassins creed. I heard they have great loot boxes in there. 

Someone took personally me criticising their fav game...

FYI, whenever someone says "conversations with players should be more realistic, more in-depth, with more choices", or other shallow feature is pointed out, people respond with "Yeah? Well this isn't a simulation, this is a game". 

 

That's what real football managers do?

Real football managers don't have a player make a fuss because the manager praised their last performance and they felt they just played normally, lowering their morale.

Real football managers don't have their fans feel disappointed when their relegation candidate club gets a draw against the league contender.

Real football managers don't have the whole squad lower their morale because the manager praised their performances lately and they feel they haven't been that great.

Real football managers don't have players "shut off" / "seems like he isn't listening" when you tell them they're playing okay / great / whatever. Or if they did, they could confront the player for his snobby attitude on the spot.

Jesus, there should be a pacifier DLC for this game...

 

Edited by Zanman777

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16 minutes ago, Zanman777 said:

Real football managers don't have a player make a fuss because the manager praised their last performance and they felt they just played normally, lowering their morale.

 

This one never did make any sense to me, i bet that if a player ever answered like that to the manager he would be sitting in the bench for a long time for being a smart@ss....even a player like Ronaldo that always was known for his perfectionism wouldn't (probably) disagree with the manager, what would he gain from it ? 

But i do understand that probably it is in the game so that complimenting the players isn't a 100% garanteed Buff, at least it is how i see it...

As far as the other things, i agree with some and disagree with others, i feel that FM Touch is getting so much better every year that sometimes i just like to play with it's simplicity, and other times with the full game, but i don't feell the need to be rude to someone just because we don't agree about everything !!! (loot boxes, seriously...)

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I can trully relate with @Zanman777

Like you, and many, i started playing football manager games a long time ago, in the early days of CM, in times where the game was much simpler, and more important, in times where i could spend 4 or 5 hours per day playing the game or the entire weekend in my pjs in front of the PC.

Things change, i have changed, the game have changed.

Is football manager much more complex when compare with the early version? Of course it is. But tell me, what game isn't? It would be very strange that, after 15 or 20 iterations, football manager would still remain the same game, that you could play a entire season in one afternoon. And i'll bet that many of you, that complain that the game is too complex, used to wonder, when playing the game, that would be great if in the future the game would implement more player roles, and morale, and set pieces routines, and so on.

The problem, at least for me, is not the game... but me.

I get stuck in those memories from 20 years ago, playing the game, having the time to take atention to every little aspect of the game, and of course i get frustrated, looking at the game now, with so much features to look at, and with me with so less time.

So for me 2013 was the year where i stop having time to play FM. I bought FM13, and play so little. It's funny, but it was really hard for me, turning on the laptop, playing the game for 30 minuts or 1 hour at best, and by the time i shut down the game realising that i haven't played i single game!

By the time FM14 got out, i didn't buy the game... the first version i skiped since CM Italia!

I started looking for alternatives. I could always go to previous version of the game. i've try with FM10 and FM07, but the outdated database was a killer for me. So i decided to buy FMM14 (at time it was called FMH14), and it was... funny, and so stupid at the same time!

Don't get me wrong, FMM its a nice game, but going from the full fat version to the mobile version, its like going from a real simulation game to... nothing. I missed everthing from the real game: the tactics, the players attributes. It wasn't for me, but it got me trough 2014 until FMC15 came out for tablets :)

With FMC (now FMT), i got back to playing FM and having the same enjoyment that i used to have 15/20 years ago. Do i have the same time to play the game? No. But in FMT i can use that time to play the way that i want. With one out playing i can setup a tactic and play 3 or 4 games. 

Is it perfect? far from it. 

Do i still miss playing the full version? Of course. But, with the time i have it's the best solution.

I find really strange when i read comments like "it's more complex playing FM than working in my job"!! Common, if this is true, why do you play the game? Are you crazy, or something? This is a game, not some sort of daily painly sacrifice.

In conclusion, what i'm trying to say is this: If you really like to play the game, then you must find the best solution for you.  The game is always changing, just like us. It's just a matter of finding the best way to aproach the game, so that we can enjoy the time playing it.

Edited by Keyzer Soze

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39 minutes ago, Nuno Dias said:

This one never did make any sense to me, i bet that if a player ever answered like that to the manager he would be sitting in the bench for a long time for being a smart@ss....even a player like Ronaldo that always was known for his perfectionism wouldn't (probably) disagree with the manager, what would he gain from it ? 

It's not very hard to understand that in this case, the player would think it IRL where in-game it's more transparent. We're seeing more than real life managers.

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I think you are massively over thinking it, and if you do that and find ways to make it harder for yourself it will become harder.

I agree with what Andrew goats said, It's quite easy to just stick to the basics to get yourself into it, find a tactic that you want to play or that fits the players you have and stick with it, even through bad results, as I have seen loads of people change their tactic every game just because they are on a bad run.

I see you have said about players morale going down after praising them and stuff like that, I don't always get that when people say it as for me I tend to 90% of the time get positive reactions from the players when talking to them or praising them and a lot of the time I use the get someone to resolve the issue when a player has a problem, which so far in my Wolves save has worked every time, and that's why Jack Price is now one of my favourite players and now captain of wolves as he has sorted so many problems out for me.

Also the players have their conversation history on their profile so isn't too hard to keep track of what you have done and said to them before.

Edited by sedge11

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1 hour ago, Keyzer Soze said:

I can trully relate with @Zanman777

Like you, and many, i started playing football manager games a long time ago, in the early days of CM, in times where the game was much simpler, and more important, in times where i could spend 4 or 5 hours per day playing the game or the entire weekend in my pjs in front of the PC.

Things change, i have changed, the game have changed.

Is football manager much more complex when compare with the early version? Of course it is. But tell me, what game isn't? It would be very strange that, after 15 or 20 iterations, football manager would still remain the same game, that you could play a entire season in one afternoon. And i'll bet that many of you, that complain that the game is too complex, used to wonder, when playing the game, that would be great if in the future the game would implement more player roles, and morale, and set pieces routines, and so on.

The problem, at least for me, is not the game... but me.

I get stuck in those memories from 20 years ago, playing the game, having the time to take atention to every little aspect of the game, and of course i get frustrated, looking at the game now, with so much features to look at, and with me with so less time.

So for me 2013 was the year where i stop having time to play FM. I bought FM13, and play so little. It's funny, but it was really hard for me, turning on the laptop, playing the game for 30 minuts or 1 hour at best, and by the time i shut down the game realising that i haven't played i single game!

By the time FM14 got out, i didn't buy the game... the first version i skiped since CM Italia!

I started looking for alternatives. I could always go to previous version of the game. i've try with FM10 and FM07, but the outdated database was a killer for me. So i decided to buy FMM14 (at time it was called FMH14), and it was... funny, and so stupid at the same time!

Don't get me wrong, FMM its a nice game, but going from the full fat version to the mobile version, its like going from a real simulation game to... nothing. I missed everthing from the real game: the tactics, the players attributes. It wasn't for me, but it got me trough 2014 until FMC15 came out for tablets :)

With FMC (now FMT), i got back to playing FM and having the same enjoyment that i used to have 15/20 years ago. Do i have the same time to play the game? No. But in FMT i can use that time to play the way that i want. With one out playing i can setup a tactic and play 3 or 4 games. 

Is it perfect? far from it. 

Do i still miss playing the full version? Of course. But, with the time i have it's the best solution.

I find really strange when i read comments like "it's more complex playing FM than working in my job"!! Common, if this is true, why do you play the game? Are you crazy, or something? This is a game, not some sort of daily painly sacrifice.

In conclusion, what i'm trying to say is this: If you really like to play the game, then you must find the best solution for you.  The game is always changing, just like us. It's just a matter of finding the best way to aproach the game, so that we can enjoy the time playing it.

This is pretty much word for word how I feel about FM and FMT. FMT got me back in love with the game I used to spend hours on but now don’t have the time

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1 hour ago, Zanman777 said:

That's what real football managers do?

Real football managers don't have a player make a fuss because the manager praised their last performance and they felt they just played normally, lowering their morale.

Real football managers don't have their fans feel disappointed when their relegation candidate club gets a draw against the league contender.

Real football managers don't have the whole squad lower their morale because the manager praised their performances lately and they feel they haven't been that great.

Real football managers don't have players "shut off" / "seems like he isn't listening" when you tell them they're playing okay / great / whatever. Or if they did, they could confront the player for his snobby attitude on the spot.

Jesus, there should be a pacifier DLC for this game...

 

People don't always react the way you expect. I've had compliments taken the wrong way and backfiring, both on a personal and professional level.  Don't think that's a unique experience, either. If you have managed people in a business setting, it definitely happens.

If every compliment got a positive reaction, it would be unrealistic and too easy. There needs to be negative reactions sometimes, because that's how humans work. I do agree the presentation of these interactions and how they get repetitive is an area that could use work in FM. But in terms of possible

And squad morale management isn't an easy thing. Some managers excel at it (Sir Alex), some struggle with it (current period Wenger) and some can do it for a time (Jose).

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