Health and Safety Gone Mad: a trip around FM18 Stadiums

[Dalglish]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Because they're obviously not animated.

Well how about losing some of the jumbotron screens from the smaller grounds - surely that'll save on performance.

We're not asking for the earth here - just a few different spectator models. Even toning down the replica kits would be a step in the right direction.

[XaW]

While I agree that the stadiums certainly have potential to be improved (or even better, licencing if it were possible!), I still think the stadiums have been improved the last few versions. And when I read down here, I see a lot of people who don't know anything about programming having very strong opinions of how it should be done. It reminds me of a scientific article I read. The consensus was that the less a person knows about a topic the more likely it was that the person had a strong opinion about it. This thread seems to support that claim...

[Triffid]

If I buy a car, drive it out of the garage and it has a rattling noise then I don't expect to be told I shouldn't complain because I'm not a mechanic.

It can be seen from even a few screenshots in this thread that the Stadium graphics are clearly not being rendered as intended so people are right to raise the issues. Maybe by FM21 something might even be done.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Triffid said:

If I buy a car, drive it out of the garage and it has a rattling noise then I don't expect to be told I shouldn't complain because I'm not a mechanic.

Of course, but if you buy a car you can't come back later because you spotted another car that have a color you wished your car had and claim they should change it.

[Britrock]

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Perhaps you could expand on that answer

Essentially: every texture that is used in the game has to be loaded in to memory to be shown on screen. If one texture is used multiple times it only has to be loaded once, but can be referenced every time it's needed. Less textures = less memory needed = quicker loading + lower spec PCs can handle the game better.

[Dalglish]

32 minutes ago, XaW said:

While I agree that the stadiums certainly have potential to be improved (or even better, licencing if it were possible!), I still think the stadiums have been improved the last few versions. And when I read down here, I see a lot of people who don't know anything about programming having very strong opinions of how it should be done. It reminds me of a scientific article I read. The consensus was that the less a person knows about a topic the more likely it was that the person had a strong opinion about it. This thread seems to support that claim...

Maybe not experts on programming but most posters will know a thing or two about football grounds.

People complaining are not (as far as I am aware) pressing for FIFA 18 style graphics, they just want some of the more random features toned down (or removed). This is hardly ground-breaking.

[forameuss]

15 minutes ago, Triffid said:

If I buy a car, drive it out of the garage and it has a rattling noise then I don't expect to be told I shouldn't complain because I'm not a mechanic.

It can be seen from even a few screenshots in this thread that the Stadium graphics are clearly not being rendered as intended so people are right to raise the issues. Maybe by FM21 something might even be done.

To be fair, if I bought a car, I wouldn't try and equate it to something completely different.

No-one said you can't dislike it, and as long as you're constructive about it it's actually a good thing, and what SI want.  But when people start talking about how easy things are, like they have a window into SI's development practices (or any) when they don't have any idea what they're talking about, then that needs called out.  After all, absolutely everyone is entitled to their opinion, but they aren't entitled to protection from someone disagreeing with that opinion.

[Tony Wright 747]

43 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Because they're obviously not animated.

The easy answer there is to remove the animation from the crowd.  It is very over the top in any case

[XaW]

14 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

Maybe not experts on programming but most posters will know a thing or two about football grounds.

People complaining are not (as far as I am aware) pressing for FIFA 18 style graphics, they just want some of the more random features toned down (or removed). This is hardly ground-breaking.

You would be surprised of how often I've seen screenshots of various FIFA games and FM here at these boards with statements of "how hard can it be" or similar. The fact that FM isn't a competitor of FIFA seems to go way above their heads. Anyway, I agree the stadiums could be improved and I think SI are doing it, it's just not at the top of their list to change. The Match Engine itself is much more critical to the game, the same is gameplay. Stadiums will be less important since they are simply an asset, and very few people play FM for the graphics. That said, this is only my opinion and SI might have totally different views than this and I may be far off here.

[Tony Wright 747]

46 minutes ago, XaW said:

While I agree that the stadiums certainly have potential to be improved (or even better, licencing if it were possible!), I still think the stadiums have been improved the last few versions. And when I read down here, I see a lot of people who don't know anything about programming having very strong opinions of how it should be done. It reminds me of a scientific article I read. The consensus was that the less a person knows about a topic the more likely it was that the person had a strong opinion about it. This thread seems to support that claim...

Whilst I have a very limited knowledge of programming, I am not asking for anything that has not been done before.  In my own opinion The stadiums were more realistic in FM12 and FM16, at least they resembled a real stadium which in my opinion most of the stadiums in FM18 do not

[stevemc]

It's easy not to put picnic benches in from the start, than to put them in and then try to remove them.

[Per Annum]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

While I agree that the stadiums certainly have potential to be improved (or even better, licencing if it were possible!), I still think the stadiums have been improved the last few versions. And when I read down here, I see a lot of people who don't know anything about programming having very strong opinions of how it should be done. It reminds me of a scientific article I read. The consensus was that the less a person knows about a topic the more likely it was that the person had a strong opinion about it. This thread seems to support that claim...

XaW in unexpected 'I'm a coder akkktually' post surprise. I mentioned something about coding, prefaced with the statement I knew nothing about it. I can't see that anyone else has even touched on it. Your post is nonsense, again.

30 minutes ago, Britrock said:

Essentially: every texture that is used in the game has to be loaded in to memory to be shown on screen. If one texture is used multiple times it only has to be loaded once, but can be referenced every time it's needed. Less textures = less memory needed = quicker loading + lower spec PCs can handle the game better.

This argument is heavily countered (even if not unequivocally) by the fact FM17 did it better.

[Scatterbrook]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it again; SI need to add a stadium editor or at least a way of modding them like other aspects of the game can be modded. Just imagine what could be created if members of the FM community could make their own stadiums, stadium props and backgrounds/cityscapes!

 

I've asked for one in the thread below which can also be voted on:

 

 

[Tony Wright 747]

9 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

XaW in unexpected 'I'm a coder akkktually' post surprise. I mentioned something about coding, prefaced with the statement I knew nothing about it. I can't see that anyone else has even touched on it. Your post is nonsense, again.

This argument is heavily countered (even if not unequivocally) by the fact FM17 did it better.

And FM16 and FM12

[XaW]

7 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

XaW in unexpected 'I'm a coder akkktually' post surprise. I mentioned something about coding, prefaced with the statement I knew nothing about it. I can't see that anyone else has even touched on it. Your post is nonsense, again.

Well, let me surprise you then. I'm not a coder, nor have I ever been. The thing is your tone is in the area of "how hard can it be?", and it's much harder than you, obviously, expect. Since you have, wrongly, guessed my job, let me guess yours; Marketing or economics. Am I right?

[forameuss]

33 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

XaW in unexpected 'I'm a coder akkktually' post surprise. I mentioned something about coding, prefaced with the statement I knew nothing about it. I can't see that anyone else has even touched on it. Your post is nonsense, again.

 

24 minutes ago, XaW said:

Well, let me surprise you then. I'm not a coder, nor have I ever been. The thing is your tone is in the area of "how hard can it be?", and it's much harder than you, obviously, expect. Since you have, wrongly, guessed my job, let me guess yours; Marketing or economics. Am I right?

[Triffid]

It really isn't worth even trying to have a sensible discussion on here. I'm not going to bother.

[Per Annum]

35 minutes ago, XaW said:

Well, let me surprise you then. I'm not a coder, nor have I ever been. The thing is your tone is in the area of "how hard can it be?", and it's much harder than you, obviously, expect. Since you have, wrongly, guessed my job, let me guess yours; Marketing or economics. Am I right?

I never actually said you were a coder... the thing is your tone is in the area of 'im a coder'.....

Of course your fellow coder that likes when he is praised has popped up.

Triffid has it right.

 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Per Annum said:

I never actually said you were a coder... the thing is your tone is in the area of 'im a coder'.....

Of course your fellow coder that likes when he is praised has popped up.

Triffid has it right.

I notice you didn't respond to my guess, so bulls eye?

I'll stop this now, and to get this back on track; I think the stadiums could be improved, but I also recognize that it's easier said than done. Hopefully SI might get some licences for it and we can get the correct stadiums in the future. If not, then I hope they will continue to improve them and maybe grant the community modding possibilities for it if it can be done.

[Ellis_D]

On 14/11/2017 at 08:26, RorysRocketThrow said:

Those park benches man! I know I'm repeating myself from the feedback thread but they really do look naff, and so unrepresentative of real football in the professional game.

They are really annoying.  More than they should be.

Put them outside the stadium in a fan zone but please keep them well away from the inside of a stadium.

The things that I think that you think are park benches, are actually steps with rails alongside them. As long as we are talking about the same thing here. I believe you mean the things between the rows of seats, separating them? I believe that is actually two levels of steps, if you look carefully.

Though I do agree it is poor graphics and hard to tell, but I would be absolutely amazed if SI had put benches in the stadiums!

[Tony Wright 747]

21 minutes ago, XaW said:

I notice you didn't respond to my guess, so bulls eye?

I'll stop this now, and to get this back on track; I think the stadiums could be improved, but I also recognize that it's easier said than done. Hopefully SI might get some licences for it and we can get the correct stadiums in the future. If not, then I hope they will continue to improve them and maybe grant the community modding possibilities for it if it can be done.

As I posted earlier I have scant knowledge of coding, but if I was given the brief to design some football stadiums, I would visit a few, or at least look at some photos of some, it is hard to believe that this has been done looking at some of the stadiums in this years game

[Tony Wright 747]

2 minutes ago, Ellis_D said:

The things that I think that you think are park benches, are actually steps with rails alongside them. As long as we are talking about the same thing here. I believe you mean the things between the rows of seats, separating them? I believe that is actually two levels of steps, if you look carefully.

Though I do agree it is poor graphics and hard to tell, but I would be absolutely amazed if SI had put benches in the stadiums!

No it is the picnic benches with canopys that people are talking about, they are there alongside the pitch

[Dalglish]

3 minutes ago, Ellis_D said:

The things that I think that you think are park benches, are actually steps with rails alongside them. As long as we are talking about the same thing here. I believe you mean the things between the rows of seats, separating them? I believe that is actually two levels of steps, if you look carefully.

Though I do agree it is poor graphics and hard to tell, but I would be absolutely amazed if SI had put benches in the stadiums!

He probably means these:

 

[Ellis_D]

On 14/11/2017 at 13:02, stevemc said:

I'm wondering how the fans on the upper tiers make it out of the stadium? Do they have to leave their seat and climb across the Domino's advertising boards, presumably dangling above the tier below, then climb back up to go through the walkway steps?

Actually, how did they make it into their seat in the first place?

I think there is supposed to be a gap between the tunnels and the grey safety barriers at the front, meaning the fans come in and out of those tunnels, like in real life grounds. The only issue there is, there are noticeable gaps at the front where the grey safety barriers are, meaning the fans could just fall off the end of the stand.

[Ellis_D]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Four players tunnels as well

They aren't players' tunnels, they are the tunnels for the fans to get from underneath the stand into the actual ground. Judging by some of the responses on here it leaves me wondering how many of you actually attend real matches.

[Ellis_D]

52 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

He probably means these:

 

Ah, my apologies, never seen them before! That is pretty shocking. Like someone else said if it was at non league grounds it might be acceptable but at bigger clubs it would be absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Ellis_D said:

They aren't players' tunnels, they are the tunnels for the fans to get from underneath the stand into the actual ground. Judging by some of the responses on here it leaves me wondering how many of you actually attend real matches.

You may well be right on this one , but I have been attending "real" macthes all over the world since 1957 and I cannot remember seeing that amount of tunnels at that level in such a small area in any ground I have been to.

 

On that particular model there is more tunnel area than seats at pitch level.  I doubt that any real life board would be very happy with the loss of revenue.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Ellis_D said:

Ah, my apologies, never seen them before! That is pretty shocking. Like someone else said if it was at non league grounds it might be acceptable but at bigger clubs it would be absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

and it is

[Ellis_D]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

You may well be right on this one , but I have been attending "real" macthes all over the world since 1957 and I cannot remember seeing that amount of tunnels at that level in such a small area in any ground I have been to.

 

On that particular model there is more tunnel area than seats at pitch level.  I doubt that any real life board would be very happy with the loss of revenue.

Yes, admittedly the tunnels are ridiculously big.

[Just-Wool]

I'm the plus side, a 55,000 seater stadium doesn't have a giant pylon, open corners and looks like a big version of Mansfield's ground any more. That's what I got with Anfield last year. 

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if your stadium has park benches in it or if it has nonsensical barriers that stop people getting in and out, what's on the pitch is what really matters. The rest is just being really picky and hardly noticeable the majority of the time.

Now I wouldn't mind this thread going back to its original purpose of being a bit of a laugh about how some stadiums are a death trap.

[Tony Wright 747]

3 minutes ago, monkeywool said:

I'm the plus side, a 55,000 seater stadium doesn't have a giant pylon, open corners and looks like a big version of Mansfield's ground any more. That's what I got with Anfield last year. 

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if your stadium has park benches in it or if it has nonsensical barriers that stop people getting in and out, what's on the pitch is what really matters. The rest is just being really picky and hardly noticeable the majority of the time.

Now I wouldn't mind this thread going back to its original purpose of being a bit of a laugh about how some stadiums are a death trap.

You are absoulutely right that it does not affect what happens on the pitch in any way, but I am a great believer that if you are going to do something then you need to do it well, otherwise there is no point in doing it at all.  I think what is frustrating people is that a reasonable level of realism had been reached then this year it is a step backwards.

 

I would agree with you that last years version of Anfield was poor, however not all stadiums of 55,000 or over have closed corners

[Just-Wool]

32 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

You are absoulutely right that it does not affect what happens on the pitch in any way, but I am a great believer that if you are going to do something then you need to do it well, otherwise there is no point in doing it at all.  I think what is frustrating people is that a reasonable level of realism had been reached then this year it is a step backwards.

 

I would agree with you that last years version of Anfield was poor, however not all stadiums of 55,000 or over have closed corners

I agree, if you are going to do something you do it to the best of your ability, which I assume SI has done.  This new way of doing stadiums is the first time they've tried it after all, so there will be little oddities here and there. It's only natural as something so complex isn't going to render on hundreds of thousands of PCs without having some. Especially as the game is now DX11, which again is new to SI. 

The majority of stadiums will look OK on the majority of people's systems. Unless it's pointed out, people won't notice the barriers at Vale Park not making sense, or the entryways at the French stadium looking like you have to do a bit of Tomb Raider to get in. It's merely background noise to the true purpose of the game. Things like that are funny to see, but in the grand scheme of things are really not big, important and/or game changing.  

[RorysRocketThrow]

2 hours ago, Ellis_D said:

Ah, my apologies, never seen them before! That is pretty shocking. Like someone else said if it was at non league grounds it might be acceptable but at bigger clubs it would be absolutely ridiculous and nonsensical.

Yes I do mean those and they are present in the Stoke stadium at Premier League level. Ridiculous.

[Tony Wright 747]

11 minutes ago, monkeywool said:

I agree, if you are going to do something you do it to the best of your ability, which I assume SI has done.  This new way of doing stadiums is the first time they've tried it after all, so there will be little oddities here and there. It's only natural as something so complex isn't going to render on hundreds of thousands of PCs without having some. Especially as the game is now DX11, which again is new to SI. 

The majority of stadiums will look OK on the majority of people's systems. Unless it's pointed out, people won't notice the barriers at Vale Park not making sense, or the entryways at the French stadium looking like you have to do a bit of Tomb Raider to get in. It's merely background noise to the true purpose of the game. Things like that are funny to see, but in the grand scheme of things are really not big, important and/or game changing.  

You are perfectly entitled to that opinion, however I and many others would disagree with it

[Dalglish]

Double decker terrace and a main stand with no exits at Exeter City's St James Park.

I quite like this smaller main stand design, looks quite good in League 2. Such a shame no exits were added. How are supporters going to get out, or to the picnic area  

 

 

[Blitz-Matt]

This year we have OUTDOOR toilets. WEATHERPROOF eating areas. Can you see that paramedic and the evil twins? They're in.

[Blitz-Matt]

I find this the most aesthetically pleasing corner of Molineux

[Per Annum]

3 minutes ago, Blitz-Matt said:

This year we have OUTDOOR toilets. WEATHERPROOF eating areas. Can you see that paramedic and the evil twins? They're in.

Outdoor toilets is fine, at national North level

[Tony Wright 747]

34 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

Outdoor toilets is fine, at national North level

 

38 minutes ago, Blitz-Matt said:

This year we have OUTDOOR toilets. WEATHERPROOF eating areas. Can you see that paramedic and the evil twins? They're in.

and it looks like not one spectator not in a replica shirt

[Tony Wright 747]

37 minutes ago, Blitz-Matt said:

I find this the most aesthetically pleasing corner of Molineux

Better apart from all the replica shirts, however it only shows a very small section of the stadium

[MoxeysTheName]

I think the LMA Manager series had the real stadiums as I remember playing it on the PS2 and being able to design a replica of Old Trafford

[Tony Wright 747]

18 minutes ago, MoxeysTheName said:

I think the LMA Manager series had the real stadiums as I remember playing it on the PS2 and being able to design a replica of Old Trafford

The ones this year look they come from Ultimate Soccer Manager 1999 I think that was

[MoxeysTheName]

Hearts have just spent £14m on a new stand where you can't even see the goal from some of the seats as there is a control room blocking the view.

[Jibby123]

16 hours ago, Triffid said:

It really isn't worth even trying to have a sensible discussion on here. I'm not going to bother.

This is it.

SI could introduce rugby goalposts and some (same old) would play devil's advocate to defend it.

[Just-Wool]

9 hours ago, Dalglish said:

Double decker terrace and a main stand with no exits at Exeter City's St James Park.

I quite like this smaller main stand design, looks quite good in League 2. Such a shame no exits were added. How are supporters going to get out, or to the picnic area  

 

 

Via the lane behind the second lot of advertising stands I'd imagine, then walk through the picnic area to the exits on the other stand.

[Stripeyfox2011]

It's a minor gameplay issue, obviously, but maybe SI should have got the people who coded the stadiums to have actually visited a football stadium....

 

Never mind, I'll enjoy watching my team Leicester play Manchester City on Saturday from the comfort of my pitchside picnic bench...

 

[Just-Wool]

These picnic bench things, I think they're an American thing. Some mls stadiums have like a pitch side table service or something. I think SI just looked at them and included a uk style picnic, because why not?

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Stripeyfox2011 said:

It's a minor gameplay issue, obviously, but maybe SI should have got the people who coded the stadiums to have actually visited a football stadium....

 

Never mind, I'll enjoy watching my team Leicester play Manchester City on Saturday from the comfort of my pitchside picnic bench...

 

Of course they should have

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, monkeywool said:

These picnic bench things, I think they're an American thing. Some mls stadiums have like a pitch side table service or something. I think SI just looked at them and included a uk style picnic, because why not?

Because that does not happen here

[Just-Wool]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Because that does not happen here

Edit: original response was one from being in a bad mood this morning. 

There is a lot of things that don't happen here, there are a lot of things that happen in game worldwide that only happen in the UK. Picnic benches by burger vans are not really that important.