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Health and Safety Gone Mad: a trip around FM18 Stadiums


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To say the least, I've been a bit disappointed with the FM18 stadia, so I've decided to create a post for uploading pics of stadium oddities as and when I find them.

First up is Vale Park. This is a particularly poor effort - not only does the main stand have closed doors on exits, it also has barriers stopping people getting to their seats. 

Please feel free to add any unrealistic stadium features you see.

vale park copy.jpg

Edited by Dalglish
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Good thread idea, the away end looks better in comparison. Surprised these have been okay'd for the final release, hopefully they are amended.

Also I noticed there's no mohawks in that screenshot, hopefully a sign of things to come when the next patch comes out.

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Those park benches man! I know I'm repeating myself from the feedback thread but they really do look naff, and so unrepresentative of real football in the professional game.

They are really annoying.  More than they should be.

Put them outside the stadium in a fan zone but please keep them well away from the inside of a stadium.

Edited by RorysRocketThrow
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I can't remember the last time I went to a football match and sat at a picnic table whilst the game was on, probably because it never happened.

 

Edited by stevemc
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The stadiums in this version are the most unrealistic looking since FM09.  They look less realistic now than they did in FM11/12.  I and many others have raised this on these forums, but so far there has been no response from SI (not mods) to either justify or argue the case.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

The stadiums in this version are the most unrealistic looking since FM09.  They look less realistic now than they did in FM11/12.  I and many others have raised this on these forums, but so far there has been no response from SI (not mods) to either justify or argue the case.

Do you expect them to?  Should they?  They can listen to feedback - which they do - but do they need to come and justify each decision they make?  Genuine question.  No matter what reason they give, I'd imagine the vast majority would disagree, but what does that achieve?  

They changed it to what they thought was better, people disagree, and have provided feedback on it.  Maybe that'll cause them to change course in future, maybe it won't, but I don't think we need an SI dev to come on here and get bellowed at every time they do something people disagree with

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13 hours ago, Dalglish said:

To say the least, I've been a bit disappointed with the FM18 stadia, so I've decided to create a post for uploading pics of stadium oddities as and when I find them.

First up is Vale Park. This is a particularly poor effort - not only does the main stand have closed doors on exits, it also has barriers stopping people getting to their seats. 

Please feel free to add any unrealistic stadium features you see.

vale park copy.jpg

my god thats an ugly stadium! Brown seats with red brick background, I`m no fashion fart myself, but that looks just horrible. I wouldnt  manage that club had they begged me!

Edited by SideLineBiscuit
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21 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Do you expect them to?  Should they?  They can listen to feedback - which they do - but do they need to come and justify each decision they make?  Genuine question.  No matter what reason they give, I'd imagine the vast majority would disagree, but what does that achieve?  

They changed it to what they thought was better, people disagree, and have provided feedback on it.  Maybe that'll cause them to change course in future, maybe it won't, but I don't think we need an SI dev to come on here and get bellowed at every time they do something people disagree with

They have come on here to justify and explain other issues in the game e.g. the 2D view, I hope they are listening to the feedback.  If this was the first release of FM then it would be more acceptable, but the stadiums have been better in the past.

As you say they may change course in the future and I assume something like this would be simpler than changing something like the animations etc which could have a knock on effect, that is why I believe threads such as this are important, as the more people who are not happy with the appearence of the stadiums come on here and say so, the more likely that SI would look at the issue for future releases.

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I for one are happy with the stadiums in general. There are some oddities, but on balance they look a whole lot better, as does the match engine.

Thats my opinion though, and there are of course others who have other opinions as well. 

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

They have come on here to justify and explain other issues in the game e.g. the 2D view, I hope they are listening to the feedback.  If this was the first release of FM then it would be more acceptable, but the stadiums have been better in the past.

As you say they may change course in the future and I assume something like this would be simpler than changing something like the animations etc which could have a knock on effect, that is why I believe threads such as this are important, as the more people who are not happy with the appearence of the stadiums come on here and say so, the more likely that SI would look at the issue for future releases.

If enough people come here, complaining on the stadiums, then SI probably will listen, but as of to date not many have.

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

They have come on here to justify and explain other issues in the game e.g. the 2D view, I hope they are listening to the feedback.  If this was the first release of FM then it would be more acceptable, but the stadiums have been better in the past.

As you say they may change course in the future and I assume something like this would be simpler than changing something like the animations etc which could have a knock on effect, that is why I believe threads such as this are important, as the more people who are not happy with the appearence of the stadiums come on here and say so, the more likely that SI would look at the issue for future releases.

I don't disagree with most of that.  As long as people are constructive then absolutely people should be registering their feelings on features.  That's what SI want.  I was just disagreeing with the idea that devs should be available on request to come and explain themselves.  It used to be like that, but no more.

For the record, I'm one that doesn't really care.  When I'm watching the 3D view, short of glancing into the stands, I'm not really paying attention to the surrounds or anything else.  I can understand why some might feel different, but is it really something that is high on the wishlist of the majority of players?  It probably falls quite far down the long, long list of priorities they will have, particularly when they are presumably happy enough with how they are now, and how they plan for them to look in future.

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3 minutes ago, SideLineBiscuit said:

I for one are happy with the stadiums in general. There are some oddities, but on balance they look a whole lot better, as does the match engine.

Thats my opinion though, and there are of course others who have other opinions as well. 

If enough people come here, complaining on the stadiums, then SI probably will listen, but as of to date not many have.

If you look across the forums I believe nearly as many people have commented on this as there were commenting on the 2D view, and this was explained at length by SI

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I'm not expecting FIFA18 style graphics, but we were led to believe that FM18 would have 'Improved stadium designs'. I'm seeing the potential with certain grounds, but others look like they've just been cobbled together.

Here's an example of upper tier walkways that have no safety barriers in place to stop people falling over the edge. This is the Stade Auguste Bonal (Sochaux)

 

 

Stade Auguste Bonal.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Dalglish said:

I'm not expecting FIFA18 style graphics, but we were led to believe that FM18 would have 'Improved stadium designs'. I'm seeing the potential with certain grounds, but others look like they've just been cobbled together.

Here's an example of upper tier walkways that have no safety barriers in place to stop people falling over the edge. This is the Stade Auguste Bonal (Sochaux)

 

 

Stade Auguste Bonal.jpg

I'm wondering how the fans on the upper tiers make it out of the stadium? Do they have to leave their seat and climb across the Domino's advertising boards, presumably dangling above the tier below, then climb back up to go through the walkway steps?

Actually, how did they make it into their seat in the first place?

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7 minutes ago, stevemc said:

I'm wondering how the fans on the upper tiers make it out of the stadium? Do they have to leave their seat and climb across the Domino's advertising boards, presumably dangling above the tier below, then climb back up to go through the walkway steps?

Actually, how did they make it into their seat in the first place?

To be honest this is one of the better ones, at least the stairwells are more in porportion than a lot of others.  The thing that "jumps out" here is the identykit crowd in their replica shirts

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I agree, most of the stairwells are oversized, I raised this in the feedback thread during the Beta too. Along with all the fans wearing the same colour shirt, playing as Manchester United, every fan in the full stadium had red on, it was too much.

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5 hours ago, stevemc said:

I can't remember the last time I went to a football match and sat at a picnic table whilst the game was on, probably because it never happened.

 

Ah ha! 

I watched a League game at Irchester FC this season from a picnic table complete with coloured umbrella. All that was missing was table service and it would have been perfect, (apart from the standard of football). 

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21 minutes ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Ah ha! 

I watched a League game at Irchester FC this season from a picnic table complete with coloured umbrella. All that was missing was table service and it would have been perfect, (apart from the standard of football). 

Fair enough, but surely not further up the pyramid, which is how it is in the game.

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2 hours ago, Jimbokav1971 said:

Ah ha! 

I watched a League game at Irchester FC this season from a picnic table complete with coloured umbrella. All that was missing was table service and it would have been perfect, (apart from the standard of football). 

is their mascot Yogi Bear? Image result for yogi bear picnic basket

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5 hours ago, Dalglish said:

I'm not expecting FIFA18 style graphics, but we were led to believe that FM18 would have 'Improved stadium designs'. I'm seeing the potential with certain grounds, but others look like they've just been cobbled together.

Here's an example of upper tier walkways that have no safety barriers in place to stop people falling over the edge. This is the Stade Auguste Bonal (Sochaux)

 

 

Stade Auguste Bonal.jpg

Another thing: why are 90% of the crowd now wearing a home shirt ? Warm months it's only c. 25%, winter time it's much less.

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Next up is Carlisle United's Brunton Park with it's unusual two tiered terraced main stand. Odd to have a terraced main stand when they have seats in other parks of the ground. 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any UK league grounds irl with a standing terrace top tier.

 

  

carlisle.jpg

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3 hours ago, Dalglish said:

Next up is Carlisle United's Brunton Park with it's unusual two tiered terraced main stand. Odd to have a terraced main stand when they have seats in other parks of the ground. 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any UK league grounds irl with a standing terrace top tier.

 

  

carlisle.jpg

Four players tunnels as well

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On 11/13/2017 at 22:33, Dalglish said:

To say the least, I've been a bit disappointed with the FM18 stadia, so I've decided to create a post for uploading pics of stadium oddities as and when I find them.

First up is Vale Park. This is a particularly poor effort - not only does the main stand have closed doors on exits, it also has barriers stopping people getting to their seats. 

Please feel free to add any unrealistic stadium features you see.

vale park copy.jpg

The second tier on the right of the picture appears to be lacking a wall or railings of any kind, that man could just topple out of his seat to his death

Edited by MoxeysTheName
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This is one of the reasons why I have always given the 3D engine just one chance per FM version. It looks so poor. It's so far off anything that would look realistic or satisfying, so it's better just to switch it off.

 

(Again, no criticism here: I really like the 2D and am happy with it.)

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11 hours ago, Dalglish said:

Next up is Carlisle United's Brunton Park with it's unusual two tiered terraced main stand. Odd to have a terraced main stand when they have seats in other parks of the ground. 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any UK league grounds irl with a standing terrace top tier.

 

  

carlisle.jpg

Quite frankly, I'd be more worried of the fans hiding behind the banners and flags.... They must surely be up to no good. Probably hooligans.

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11 hours ago, Dalglish said:

Next up is Carlisle United's Brunton Park with it's unusual two tiered terraced main stand. Odd to have a terraced main stand when they have seats in other parks of the ground. 

I could be wrong, but I don't recall seeing any UK league grounds irl with a standing terrace top tier.

 

  

carlisle.jpg

the 4 tunnels made me LOL. :))))  

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I have not watched any 3D stuff in FM2018, but the pictures above raise the question: why the total lack of variety in the way the spectators dress? Basically, everybody is dressed up in one of two or three colours. It's absurd. You will never see that in proper crowds outside North Korea.

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25 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I have not watched any 3D stuff in FM2018, but the pictures above raise the question: why the total lack of variety in the way the spectators dress? Basically, everybody is dressed up in one of two or three colours. It's absurd. You will never see that in proper crowds outside North Korea.

It's all the more confusing as it was working fine before.

Stadium's in 18 are a nonsense - I don't know how coding works but it seems like they've designed assets and then an algorithm than randomly pairs them together, and in making that algorithm they forgot to include any limits requiring a tinge of realistic-ness. It is unbelievable that this didn't get picked up in the pre-beta alpha QI testing.

So unbelievable, in fact, that I'm fairly concerned it was picked up and deliberately left it. Given that the copy and paste response to complaints about the fact that, for example, Scottish league teams that IRL struggle to make ends meet week to week have jumbotron screens in their stadiums is that the stadiums can't be realistic for licensing purposes, I'm worried that the ridiculous stadiums we are seeing in game are the deliberate result of an effort to make inherently unrealistic stadiums so as to not fall foul of licensing laws and that, as such, we are thoroughly stuck with them.

I mean, no claim by the holders of IP rights in stadium is going to get very far when suggesting a in-game representation with 4 player tunnels and no barriers is too close to theirs.

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I've never understood why SI, faced with the licensing limitations of not being able to replicate real stadiums, went with the idea of making stadia extremely complicated and full of unrealistic distinctive details and procedurally generated anomalies rather than making a few blandly-realistic generic stand types.

Especially considering the blandness of most modern stadiums. Why actually go to the trouble of designing a crappy massively-oversized-brick texture that can fit between tiers, when virtually no real world stadiums have large brick walls between tiers (and any that do can't be assigned that design for licensing reasons anyway)?

Why bother with picnic tables? Why bother with jumbotrons when you can't actually assign them to stadiums based on whether they have them or not?

Edited by enigmatic
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3 hours ago, XaW said:

Quite frankly, I'd be more worried of the fans hiding behind the banners and flags.... They must surely be up to no good. Probably hooligans.

Actually the flags and banners are  the only thing about the stadiums that look more realistic than in previous releases

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20 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

I'm worried that the ridiculous stadiums we are seeing in game are the deliberate result of an effort to make inherently unrealistic stadiums so as to not fall foul of licensing laws and that, as such, we are thoroughly stuck with them.

 

I think the lack of realism has less to do with licencing and more to do with randomness you mentioned in your post. There are numerous examples in the game where stadiums are fairly similar to the original. Take the Sochaux stadium I posted earlier and compare to the real one. Fairly similar - apart from the sheer drop from the top tier walkways.

 

1191189-24901782-1600-900.jpg

Stade Auguste Bonal.jpg

Edited by Dalglish
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48 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I have not watched any 3D stuff in FM2018, but the pictures above raise the question: why the total lack of variety in the way the spectators dress? Basically, everybody is dressed up in one of two or three colours. It's absurd. You will never see that in proper crowds outside North Korea.

It suggests lazy programming, just design one spectator model and replacate it over and over again.

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20 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

It's all the more confusing as it was working fine before.

Stadium's in 18 are a nonsense - I don't know how coding works but it seems like they've designed assets and then an algorithm than randomly pairs them together, and in making that algorithm they forgot to include any limits requiring a tinge of realistic-ness. It is unbelievable that this didn't get picked up in the pre-beta alpha QI testing.

So unbelievable, in fact, that I'm fairly concerned it was picked up and deliberately left it. Given that the copy and paste response to complaints about the fact that, for example, Scottish league teams that IRL struggle to make ends meet week to week have jumbotron screens in their stadiums is that the stadiums can't be realistic for licensing purposes, I'm worried that the ridiculous stadiums we are seeing in game are the deliberate result of an effort to make inherently unrealistic stadiums so as to not fall foul of licensing laws and that, as such, we are thoroughly stuck with them.

I mean, no claim by the holders of IP rights in stadium is going to get very far when suggesting a in-game representation with 4 player tunnels and no barriers is too close to theirs.

If it is a licensing issue, why has no one from SI come forward and said as much.  There has been generic stadiums in previous realeases that were quite bland, but looked much more realistic than the present ones.

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13 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

I've never understood why SI, faced with the licensing limitations of not being able to replicate real stadiums, went with the idea of making stadia extremely complicated and full of unrealistic distinctive details and procedurally generated anomalies rather than making a few blandly-realistic generic stand types.

Especially considering the blandness of most modern stadiums. Why actually go to the trouble of designing a crappy massively-oversized-brick texture that can fit between tiers, when virtually no real world stadiums have large brick walls between tiers (and any that do can't be assigned that design for licensing reasons anyway)?

Why bother with picnic tables? Why bother with jumbotrons when you can't actually assign them to stadiums based on whether they have them or not?

Which is exactly what they have done in the past

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Some of the weirdnesses were in FM17 too, including the picnic tables, big jumbotrons in small stadia and an odd fondness for roof pillars in large stadiums recorded as recently built in the database (better to have no roof pier model at all than have them common in large modern stadia)

The ironic thing is the taster screenshots that talked about improved stadia seemed to show exactly the sort of simple, bland stadium required

 

Edited by enigmatic
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37 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Actually the flags and banners are  the only thing about the stadiums that look more realistic than in previous releases

Yes, but I'm talking about the people hiding behind them...

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34 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

It suggests lazy programming, just design one spectator model and replacate it over and over again.

Or a less cynical and much more reasonable reason -- saves on performance.

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Or a less cynical and much more reasonable reason -- saves on performance.

Why not remove the picnic benches, random chairs, doors on exits - to save on performance?

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