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Uncle_Sam

[FM18] Uncle Sam Real Life USA Pyramid - v2.5 RELEASED!

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Perhaps one day there'll be a more European division structure with promotion and relegation. Then, when one team folds, it's just a simple matter of seeing which lower team did best and advance that to the higher division.

All the other quirky rules are fine and could make the MLS a very interesting league, but the mess they created all those years with moves, folds and such is just a shame for such a sophisticated country.

 

I'm very interested to play this, when it's finished. KUTGW :thup:

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5 hours ago, Jorgen said:

Perhaps one day there'll be a more European division structure with promotion and relegation. Then, when one team folds, it's just a simple matter of seeing which lower team did best and advance that to the higher division.

All the other quirky rules are fine and could make the MLS a very interesting league, but the mess they created all those years with moves, folds and such is just a shame for such a sophisticated country.

 

I'm very interested to play this, when it's finished. KUTGW :thup:

I think it's part of American sport culture, and as such it seems unlikely that a pro/rel thing will ever happen. All the major US sports thrive on getting owners with big pockets to have the last word. The whole thing of teams relocating places in the NHL, NFL and NBA is such a strange thing for a European (as me). But there it's normal. It will probably even happen in the MLS someday, as some say Columbus Crew might relocate to Austin. Imagine if FC Barcelona would relocate somewhere else. We would laugh our asses off. But there, it's just a different culture. It's strange, but in a funny way also unique.

I don't agree with the relocating of teams from a fan perspective, but I accept it's part of a different system . However, I do agree with the salary caps and such. I wish we had a similar thing in the UEFA. Just to make things more fair to the teams with less money.

Edited by CrowBar

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So I've got the rules all in but there is some error somewhere, however, instead of telling me what the error is so I can fix it the Editor just crashes instead. So now the maddening meticulous search for the mistake.

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I've found and fixed at least one of the problems, MLS and the US Open Cup have been verified. Next I'll be checking the USL. Here is what I've done with USL: 38 teams split into two conferences of 19 playing each team in the conference twice. The playoffs will be as is in real life with the top 8 from each conference qualifying for a one-off playoff.

 

The NASL will have six teams. They'll play each other three times in the spring season and three times in the fall season with the top team from each playing in the Soccer Bowl, hosted by the spring season winner. I've left Jacksonville's U23 side in the NPSL and created a Miami FC 2 for the NPSL as well.

Edited by Uncle_Sam

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On 2/15/2018 at 10:45, CrowBar said:

I think it's part of American sport culture, and as such it seems unlikely that a pro/rel thing will ever happen. All the major US sports thrive on getting owners with big pockets to have the last word. The whole thing of teams relocating places in the NHL, NFL and NBA is such a strange thing for a European (as me). But there it's normal. It will probably even happen in the MLS someday, as some say Columbus Crew might relocate to Austin. Imagine if FC Barcelona would relocate somewhere else. We would laugh our asses off. But there, it's just a different culture. It's strange, but in a funny way also unique.

I don't agree with the relocating of teams from a fan perspective, but I accept it's part of a different system . However, I do agree with the salary caps and such. I wish we had a similar thing in the UEFA. Just to make things more fair to the teams with less money.

I kind of think that the best hope for pro/rel is if MLS expands to the point where you could have MLS1, MLS2, etc, while still be able to guarantee equal TV exposure/revenue and such for all the teams. My guess, though, is that once MLS hits 32 teams they will be done expanding. And relocation has already happened in MLS, with the first iteration of the San Jose Earthquakes moving to Houston.

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44 minutes ago, Uncle_Sam said:

I kind of think that the best hope for pro/rel is if MLS expands to the point where you could have MLS1, MLS2, etc, while still be able to guarantee equal TV exposure/revenue and such for all the teams. My guess, though, is that once MLS hits 32 teams they will be done expanding. And relocation has already happened in MLS, with the first iteration of the San Jose Earthquakes moving to Houston.

True. It all depends on how much room there is for MLS to expand. Seeing as no other NA top level sports has had more than 32, don't think MLS will have either. Although some think 40 is the limit (40 would be perfect for MLS1/2), I doubt it. The bar will grow higher after each team enters. Bigger pockets needed to grow.

I do think it is a safe bet that they will split up the conferences in divisions after 24+. The only way to keep schedules manageable and still be able to play each team at least once each season, without resorting to overly unbalanced tricks. I have been trying to create this myself already in FM18, but so far reached a wall with adding divisions under a conference.

I also hope the 12 spots for playoffs is set in stone. No matter how much the league expands.

 

 

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Seems MLS is having a slight problem expanding to 26 at the moment.  They are now 2 months late with the Sacramento/FC Cincinnati/Detroit decision.

They say they will stop at 28 teams.  Personally, I would really like to see 32 teams, with 4 divisions of 8 teams.  Playoffs:  1st and 2nd place teams each division, plus 2 wildcards each conferences in playoffs (6 from each conference, 12 total), 1st place teams would get a bye.   

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1 hour ago, Uncle_Sam said:

I kind of think that the best hope for pro/rel is if MLS expands to the point where you could have MLS1, MLS2, etc, while still be able to guarantee equal TV exposure/revenue and such for all the teams. My guess, though, is that once MLS hits 32 teams they will be done expanding. And relocation has already happened in MLS, with the first iteration of the San Jose Earthquakes moving to Houston.

16 in MLS1

16 in MLS2

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@Uncle Sam

A small side-question, since you are experienced in MLS matters in the editor.

Am I correct in assuming that is not possible in FM18 to leave the two conferences set-up without losing the typical MLS things (SuperDraft etc.)? I have read in previous FM's that the MLS is hardcoded, which I assume is still the case.

I originally thought of scrapping two conferences for a system with divisions (like MLS/NHL/NBA). But if I lose the MLS draft features by doing this, I will take my losses and stay within 2 conferences instead.

 

Edited by CrowBar

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There actually was a custom file for an older FM (16, I think) that turned MLS into the NFL with conferences, eight divisions. So it's probably possible. Right now with this file I'm trying to stay as close to real life as possible. So I probably won't give that a go but the file is probably still available on these forums somewhere for you to peruse the format. You probably won't be able to use the data because he created the 32 NFL teams.

The issue I have with modifying MLS heavily is not so much the format but the fact you can't replicate the relationship between club and academy with teams that aren't default. That was true at least in past versions, I haven't had a chance to check it in FM18. The version I'm working on now (which I have now tested all the way down to NPSL) only adds the Miami Beckham franchise (Inter Miami). It's not game-breaking for one team, but if you start adding teams all the way to 32, that's almost a third of the league who can't sign players from their Academy teams like they should be able to.

Now, if you are willing to give up the SuperDraft and All Star game and all that then expand away and knock yourself out. But that it is not the goal of this file.

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4 hours ago, CrowBar said:

@Uncle Sam

A small side-question, since you are experienced in MLS matters in the editor.

Am I correct in assuming that is not possible in FM18 to leave the two conferences set-up without losing the typical MLS things (SuperDraft etc.)? I have read in previous FM's that the MLS is hardcoded, which I assume is still the case.

I originally thought of scrapping two conferences for a system with divisions (like MLS/NHL/NBA). But if I lose the MLS draft features by doing this, I will take my losses and stay within 2 conferences instead.

 

It is definitely possible to have different MLS league structures with FM18 and keep the SuperDraft and all MLS rules.   The 2 Conferences aren't hardcoded, and hasn't been in recent versions. 

I've played around with various MLS league structures again with FM18.  Was able to create an NFL, MLB and 4 divisions with 6 teams league structures (with all MLS rules, SuperDrafts, other drafts, teams trading, salary cap, etc).  Haven't been playing FM18 for several months and the files aren't really in a state for publishing.  Don't really have the time.

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42 minutes ago, dim13 said:

It is definitely possible to have different MLS league structures with FM18 and keep the SuperDraft and all MLS rules.   The 2 Conferences aren't hardcoded, and hasn't been in recent versions. 

I've played around with various MLS league structures again with FM18.  Was able to create an NFL, MLB and 4 divisions with 6 teams league structures (with all MLS rules, SuperDrafts, other drafts, teams trading, salary cap, etc).  Haven't been playing FM18 for several months and the files aren't really in a state for publishing.  Don't really have the time.

I see. I don't want to hijack this thread any further, so I put up a more comprehensive reply (concerning playoffs which might cause a problem) to you over there in the advanced editing section.

 

 

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20 hours ago, Uncle_Sam said:

There actually was a custom file for an older FM (16, I think) that turned MLS into the NFL with conferences, eight divisions. So it's probably possible. Right now with this file I'm trying to stay as close to real life as possible. So I probably won't give that a go but the file is probably still available on these forums somewhere for you to peruse the format. You probably won't be able to use the data because he created the 32 NFL teams.

The issue I have with modifying MLS heavily is not so much the format but the fact you can't replicate the relationship between club and academy with teams that aren't default. That was true at least in past versions, I haven't had a chance to check it in FM18. The version I'm working on now (which I have now tested all the way down to NPSL) only adds the Miami Beckham franchise (Inter Miami). It's not game-breaking for one team, but if you start adding teams all the way to 32, that's almost a third of the league who can't sign players from their Academy teams like they should be able to.

Now, if you are willing to give up the SuperDraft and All Star game and all that then expand away and knock yourself out. But that it is not the goal of this file.

Have you ever been able to change it so the regens go directly to the parent club versus going to the academies?

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48 minutes ago, bdavies26 said:

Have you ever been able to change it so the regens go directly to the parent club versus going to the academies?

I've never tried to do that with the existing MLS teams, but I doubt that would be possible without blowing up the hard-coded league rules. The way the USA is set up by default is that all players are generated by the USSDA clubs, including MLS academy teams. If you remove the MLS Academy team or remove the affiliation then probably the MLS team would get no generated players at all.

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22 hours ago, Uncle_Sam said:

...

The issue I have with modifying MLS heavily is not so much the format but the fact you can't replicate the relationship between club and academy with teams that aren't default. That was true at least in past versions, I haven't had a chance to check it in FM18. The version I'm working on now (which I have now tested all the way down to NPSL) only adds the Miami Beckham franchise (Inter Miami). It's not game-breaking for one team, but if you start adding teams all the way to 32, that's almost a third of the league who can't sign players from their Academy teams like they should be able to.

...

That's a bummer if that is still the case. OOTP is insanely easy to do stuff with in the US, I wish FM wasn't that tough in MLS. I did add custom academies to each team + in development league. Will have to test it if it has same issues as you mentioned.

That is a bit of a letdown, and I'm too sensitive to unbalanced stuff to settle with 23 teams. 

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I'm planning on expanding MLS to 26 teams, with Nashville SC, Miami, and [?????] so there would be three teams that can't sign Academy players. I'm not crazy about going to any farther.

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14 hours ago, Uncle_Sam said:

I'm planning on expanding MLS to 26 teams, with Nashville SC, Miami, and [?????] so there would be three teams that can't sign Academy players. I'm not crazy about going to any farther.

Yeah, I just did a few test runs on my game. And it seems what you describe is still relevant in FM18.

On topic: A team next to Nashville and Miami? Considering Cincinnati, Sacramento and Detroit are all what is left for the 26th spot in real life. And the MLS organisation has already said they would have confirmed them all if they wanted based on that they think they have all reached the minimum requirements, but they don't think it is the time yet for 28 teams. My pick would probably be Sacramento (+ 3 teams for a California rivalry cup, is pretty neat), to counter-balance Nashville and Miami, since they would probably fit best in the Eastern conference, and Sacramento would fit in the Western conference. Cincinnati and Detroit are not really suitable for the Western conference.

But in the end, it doesn't matter: all three of them will probably all be granted a MLS spot within the next few years. You can't go wrong there.

Edit: Another thing I noticed is that the new teams don't seem to be getting players for any DP slots. Will investigate further.

 

Edited by CrowBar

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I think they really WANT to add Cincinnati. They averaged almost 22,000 in attendance last year in USL. That would have ranked them 7th in MLS. From what I've read the issue is a stadium and there is no resolution in sight. Sacramento did sell out every game but their stadium only holds 11,569 so who knows how they'd do given a larger venue.

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2 minutes ago, Uncle_Sam said:

I think they really WANT to add Cincinnati. They averaged almost 22,000 in attendance last year in USL. That would have ranked them 7th in MLS. From what I've read the issue is a stadium and there is no resolution in sight. Sacramento did sell out every game but their stadium only holds 11,569 so who knows how they'd do given a larger venue.

Sacramento is building a new 20,000 seat stadium, expandable to 22,000.  Should be ready for the 2020 season.  They had a ground-breaking ceremony last July.

Link:   SACRAMENTO REPUBLIC FC LAUNCHES MLS STADIUM CONSTRUCTION

Their issue is one of their major partners pulled out last December right before MLS's expansion decision.  News is they are currently in negotiations at the moment with potential new investor(s).

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Ok something interesting just happened while testing out the stuff with the academy youth, based on what @Uncle_Samsaid was not possible. On a hunch, I double-checked my Nashville academy affiliate. I originally put it in under the "next division" (2018): USSDA Southeast Division. Ingame it originally was just as you said, only grey players and no new stream of youth at all. LAFC Academy did have a stream of youth players. Nor did the Nashville SC Academy actually ever get added to the USSDA Southeast Division per 2018.

So I checked in the editor, and decided to add them in the USSDA Southeast Division as of 2017 instead. Then ingame I noticed a change, they did not start with just grey players. Just like the LAFC Academy, they had a handful of generated youth. Then I simulated a full year til januari 2018. And I noticed another batch of generated youth under Nashville SC Academy.

Now, I don't know if I am missing something?

 

 

Untitled.jpg

Edited by CrowBar

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Well in the past (FM17 and before) the problem wasn't that the Academy didn't generate players, it was that their MLS parent club couldn't sign homegrown players from the Academy unless it was one of the default MLS teams.

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4 minutes ago, Uncle_Sam said:

Well in the past (FM17 and before) the problem wasn't that the Academy didn't generate players, it was that their MLS parent club couldn't sign homegrown players from the Academy unless it was one of the default MLS teams.

I see, well I am simulating several seasons - as we speak - to see if I can spot LAFC and Nashville eventually signing player from the Academy or not. You're probably right still, but will check it out.

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If you're playing FM18 then LAFC should be able to sign homegrowns from their Academy, as the game has them joining the league in 2018.

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1 hour ago, Uncle_Sam said:

If you're playing FM18 then LAFC should be able to sign homegrowns from their Academy, as the game has them joining the league in 2018.

Yes, I just saw them doing it for the first time in this simulation. Haven't seen Nashville doing that sadly.

And I still haven't seen Nashville contract a DP-slot player either. Don't know if that is a coincidence, or a hardcoded problem aswell.

edit: Simulated three seasons 2018, 2019, 2020. Nashville has never contracted a player under a DP contract. It seems that handmade new clubs under MLS are unable to use that. Makes it hard for them to compete against others.

Edited by CrowBar

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Has anyone noticed in the editor the annoying random errors concerning Rivalry cups? I am 99% sure I set them up correctly myself, yet in a random way the untouched vanilla Rivalry cup ones give out error messages when trying to verify the rules. "Vancouver has played more than the max number of games in stage 0 of Cascadia Cup". etc.

Edit;  fixed it, got it verified. Disabled the "Count fixtures" in the league settings under Extra league games.

Edited by CrowBar

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So I worked with trying to make MLS expand as it will in real life (LAFC in 2018, Miami and Nashville in 2019), but in all my tests MLS just stopped setting up after the 2018 season. So just as last year you can only expand MLS in 2018.

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2 hours ago, Uncle_Sam said:

So I worked with trying to make MLS expand as it will in real life (LAFC in 2018, Miami and Nashville in 2019), but in all my tests MLS just stopped setting up after the 2018 season. So just as last year you can only expand MLS in 2018.

Yeah, I conceded in my efforts in the end. There are too many "buts" and "ifs" for me to have pleasure out of a true big expansion in the MLS. When you release your mod, I will use it , but will probably kick out the expansions from MLS back to default 23 (2018)  for personal use.

I can personally live with just 23 unbalanced league more than I can with having gimped expansions. Only being able to join in 2018 all together + severely gimped features (not signing DP's, unable to sign academy players), it is a bit too much for me.

I hope one day SI will consider making the MLS rules more easy to build around.

Edited by CrowBar

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@Uncle_Sam I don't wanna be that guy that asks for a release date but I'm gonna be anyway so now that the Winter Update is released when should we be expecting a release? Cheers pal.

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How do regens function with this new pyramid? I'm assuming MLS teams will still use the homegrown player functions, but do USL/NASL/everyone else generate youth players based upon youth facilities, etc.?

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Regens function just like they do by default. They manifest in the USSDA clubs, however instead of matriculating into PDL clubs they move into the NCAA.

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I'm not trying to insult you, but did you place it in the right folder? Is anyone else having this problem?

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That should be it. I don't know why it wouldn't show. It shows in mine, if someone else has the problem please post.

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You always put out quality work @Uncle_Sam do you think this would work with the custom CanPL pyramid that has the MLS academies in their respective leagues In Canada? along with Ottawa and Edmonton in the CPL

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Just now, TFC_Fan said:

You always put out quality work @Uncle_Sam do you think this would work with the custom CanPL pyramid that has the MLS academies in their respective leagues In Canada? along with Ottawa and Edmonton in the CPL

Actually I can't see that working. My file has the USSDA functioning with the Academies (TFC III, Whitecaps Residency, Impact Academy). A file that pulls them out would probably cause some kind of issue or not even load up at all.

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1 minute ago, Uncle_Sam said:

Actually I can't see that working. My file has the USSDA functioning with the Academies (TFC III, Whitecaps Residency, Impact Academy). A file that pulls them out would probably cause some kind of issue or not even load up at all.

Fair enough, and thanks for the repsonse. :) Time to download and procrastinate doing school work lol. 

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Ha, I'm sure I don't have to tell you that creating this file required a lot of procrastinating on my part.

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Hey, Im having trouble opening/saving this file. When I try to open the file from downloads, it says that there is no application set to open the file. Any help? I'm on Macbook.

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There shouldn't be any need to "open" it, I didn't compress the file so you should be able to just drop it in the proper folder. I don't use a Mac so I won't be much help beyond that.

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