The Return of the Manchester United Thread v1.3 - The Future Starts Hereâ„¢

[matt_e]

The board is hardly a representation of most United fans if that's what your implying.

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -rudi-:

But, then again, you almost had it coming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how's that exactly? The club being run as a PLC has f*ck all to do with us fans

Anyway, very very promising news concerning JP Morgan and Brunswick deserting Glazer. Seems his little temper tantrum didn't go down too well with them. Shame that. Nonetheless, as we should all be aware by now, complacency is the last thing we need - the fight must go on

[Dangerous Dave]

Lee Sharpe's corner flag celebrations > *

That 6-2 win is one of my most vivid memories of pre-Premiership football. The other being Liverpool's 2-0 win over Man Utd at Anfield to basically hand the title to Leeds (Mark Walters \o/). What was that Sheff Utd defender's name who scored the own goal?

[Paul Bacon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by -rudi-:

But, then again, you almost had it coming. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how's that exactly? The club being run as a PLC has f*ck all to do with us fans

Anyway, very very promising news concerning JP Morgan and Brunswick deserting Glazer. Seems his little temper tantrum didn't go down too well with them. Shame that. Nonetheless, as we should all be aware by now, complacency is the last thing we need - the fight must go on <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he means the board, not necessary the fans. The board were happy to run as a PLC and have all the perks from selling shares etc. But when something like this happens (which always can with a PLC, one guy taking control), then the board are moaning about it. They cant have it both ways.

But like -rudi- im a very angry and fustrated Leeds fan atm

[Terry Cheung]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dangerous Dave:

Lee Sharpe's corner flag celebrations > *

That 6-2 win is one of my most vivid memories of pre-Premiership football. The other being Liverpool's 2-0 win over Man Utd at Anfield to basically hand the title to Leeds (Mark Walters \o/). What was that Sheff Utd defender's name who scored the own goal? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

David Tuttle?

[player_65]

It wasn't mentioned in those 2 stories, but the lot doing his (Glazer's) PR has also pulled the plug.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nick OGS20:

The '96 white away kit and the Newton Heath kit <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That Newton Heath kit always reminds me of us going out of the cup at Bramhall lane, when Fergie played Giggs up front nad said that's where he'd probably end up (little did we know ) and Bruce missed a penalty to get us back level <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the plus side, it always reminds me of the Cup Game against Wimbledon where Eric controlled the ball on his thigh and then hit the most perfect volley to complete a 3-0 win <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. That's still one of my favourite goals.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dangerous Dave:

Lee Sharpe's corner flag celebrations > *

That 6-2 win is one of my most vivid memories of pre-Premiership football. The other being Liverpool's 2-0 win over Man Utd at Anfield to basically hand the title to Leeds (Mark Walters \o/). What was that Sheff Utd defender's name who scored the own goal? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brian Gayle?

[Terry Cheung]

I don't think JP Morgan and that PR company pulling out is much of a boon for United fans.

There will be other firms wanting his business.

[player_65]

just to make you feel a bit worse

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Chelsea winger Arjen Robben revealed he was on the verge of joining Manchester United before his move to Stamford Bridge.

The 20-year-old met with United manager Sir Alex Ferguson but the deal stalled and Robben eventually joined the current Barclays Premiership leaders.

Robben said: ``I had a meeting with Mr Ferguson and it was very good.

``After, the clubs had to come to a deal and it took a long time for Manchester United and they didn't come to a deal.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Entire Story

also today we're linked in a couple of places with Turkish midfielder Emre of Inter.

[foobR]

err that's not news, we knew that at the time

[Taz & The Devil]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

United to restructure deals

Manchester United chief executive David Gill has stated the club are looking to restructure the contracts of players at Old Trafford.

With many of The Red Devils stars on hefty wage packages, the club want to make around a quarter of the players' deals based on the performance of the team.

Gill has stated qualifying for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League is crucial and that any loss of income suffered by the club should be filtered through to the players.

"Getting to the Champions League group stage is critical, and it is important that players contribute to that element," said Gill.

"Part of their remuneration would be dependant on them getting into the Champions League.

"If we don't get in, our income goes down. That would be mitigated by the players' wages going down.

"It would be good if we could get 25 percent based on that second element.

"For the young players, we need to look at them having appearance-based money but they would still get a very nice basic."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good, why should they all be able to relax in the fact they are paid £70k+ a week to be crap.

[player_65]

that should also put a stop to things like 12k a week Michael Stewart hopefully

[gonch19]

i think emre would be a good signing, talented player who can create things and play on the left as well, giving mr we need to get better as a team some competition.

on that note, id like to see richardson play tomorrow ahead of giggs, anyone agree?

[Kaka]

Emre is more a central midfielder than a winger tbh and hasn't been exactly setting Inter alight, a little lightweight and all that.

My opinion is that Richardson just doesn't seem to cut it at this level but yeah, we should start him just to try it out.

[Taz & The Devil]

Emre is too lightweight for the prem in my eyes, he will be another Kleberson.

On starting Richardson, they guy has no end product for me and i dont see him cutting it at the top of the top level if you get me. I would much rather see Giggs play, i think this is the type of game Giggs will love and he will tear that crap Newcastle defence apart.

I'd actually like to see us play something like this.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Carroll

Gazza Brown SoFine Heinze

Ferdinand

Ronaldo Scholes Giggs

Van Saha

</pre>

[gonch19]

err..where's our captain?

[Mikey G]

Taz:

Is rio playing as a Dm? If so surely thre are better people for the job.

If not, who's going to fill the HUGE gap between the attacking 3 mids and the defence?

tbh that looks like a ***** formation

[snipersdream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gonch19:

i think emre would be a good signing, talented player who can create things and play on the left as well, giving mr we need to get better as a team some competition. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, nice to see that's catching on...

[Taz & The Devil]

Rio is the DM yes and captain without Keane. Rio used to play midfield and i feel he will be great sitting in front of a back 4 with his mad runs into the opposition half.

[Al3]

but giggs should be fu(ked off, he is a muppet who has'nt done **** all this season and gets paid what 40 grand a week.

[snipersdream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taz & The Devil:

Rio is the DM yes and captain without Keane. Rio used to play midfield and i feel he will be great sitting in front of a back 4 with his mad runs into the opposition half. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

... Leave Wes and Micky to run around, bumping into each other, getting confused etc etc

[ACou2000]

What Mikey said.

[JulesMUFC]

Sir alex will never play less than 4 players in midfield. Its going to be a straight 4-4-2:

Carol

Gazza Rio SoFine EnzySay

Cronaldo Keano Scholes Giggs

Ruud Saha/Rooney

I hope Saha starts!

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Terry Cheung:

I don't think JP Morgan and that PR company pulling out is much of a boon for United fans.

There will be other firms wanting his business. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dunno. I think a lot of PR firms will be slightly wary after what happened to Brunswick when they started representing Glazer (the bombardment of phone lines, e-mail, their website having to be taken down, all sorts of things being delivered to their offices ), and I suspect they'd notice that Brunswick really struggled to get any positive press for Glazer at all (they arguably harmed Glazer's cause).

As for financial backing, again, I think Glazer had a struggle finding someone to put the substantial amount of money up for him, and now they've pulled out, I'm not sure there'll be all that many other institutions who'd really want to take it on.

Personally, I think an immense amount of credit has to go to SU and IMUSA - they've done a fantastic job so far and have to have played a big part is disrupting Glazer's bid. I'm in no doubt that Glazer never thought he'd come up against so much opposition and completely underestimated the fans.

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dangerous Dave:

Lee Sharpe's corner flag celebrations > *

That 6-2 win is one of my most vivid memories of pre-Premiership football. The other being Liverpool's 2-0 win over Man Utd at Anfield to basically hand the title to Leeds (Mark Walters \o/). What was that Sheff Utd defender's name who scored the own goal? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brian Gayle? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was trying to remember that for ages last night - could only think of Marcus Gayle, but I knew he'd played for Wimbledon and was primarily a forward

[Dangerous Dave]

That's him

'Mo, flipping call your aunt'

Danny Baker's own goals and gaffs ifb.

[Gianichedda Rules]

Posted up the page, but some more info....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Man Utd eye pay-as-you-play deals

"The players need to understand the economics of the game have changed over the last few years" David Gill

Manchester United chief executive David Gill has warned Old Trafford's high-earners they could be placed on pay-as-you-play deals in future.

Gill hinted at changes as he told United's annual meeting: "We'd like, particularly for the younger players, to have more appearance-based money.

"The players need to understand the economics of the game have changed over the last few years.

"But we're still talking about putting together very attactive packages."

Gill added: "Wage cuts would depend on the player."

United's finances were hit because they claimed a smaller share of the Champions League cash pot after finishing third in the Premiership last year.

And the club has a number of high earners whose contracts are up for renewel at the end of next season.

Captain Roy Keane and Ryan Giggs are among those who could be affected, along with young defender John O'Shea.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Giggs and Keane, eh?

[Wilbie]

bought some shares last night

[Nick OGS20]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

[20] Guardian Business on Glazer situation

Saturday, November 13, 2004

Images of bankers, folded umbrellas and clear skies suddenly turned cloudy, will be swimming around the head of Malcolm Glazer this morning. Last night the entire financial advisory team of this putative buyer of Manchester United resigned.

The whole lot - investment bankers JP Morgan, solicitors Allen & Overy, even the public relations people round at Brunswick. It amounts to the most high profile City of London snub since Cazenove ejected the then mighty Lord Black from its client list a decade ago.

On that occasion, the stockbroker had decided that it had been misled over the Telegraph, a quoted company at the time. With Mr Glazer, the matter is sim ilarly sublime: JP Morgan, specifically, believes that its advice has been utterly and completely ignored.

Mr Glazer was supposed to be wooing the board of the football club, getting them to open up their books for due diligence so that he - together with JP Morgan's money - could offer a fair price to take the company over. Instead, feeling angry and rejected, he chose to use his stake to vote down the re-election of three directors at yesterday's Manchester United annual meeting.

It was a baffling decision, and there are only really two explanations. Either Mr Glazer really is a shoot-from-the-hip guy who can't control his anger; or relations with JP Morgan had already deteriorated so far that he was prepared to risk the bank's resignation.

Whichever is the truth, Mr Glazer is now in a bind. This was a highly leveraged deal, and while there's bound to be a queue of deal-hungry investment banking rivals queueing up to offer him alter native arrangements, JP Morgan's public snub will mean that the financing is more expensive and takes much more time to arrange.

For the bank, the way this story has developed must be deeply embarrassing. The numbers and assumptions on the bid looked racy from day one, and the independent board of a public company rejected them as wildly over-optimistic. The man to whom it was planning to back to the tune of several hundred million pounds has now shown himself to be uncontrollable.

To go this far and then pull out was the worst possible result for JP Morgan. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And from a separate article on sportinglife.com, quite a promising view:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If a bank of JP Morgan's reputation is not prepared to back him, it appears highly unlikely any other organisation would take an alternative view without massively increasing the interest payments to a level even Glazer may find prohibitive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest]

Robben >>>>>

All the best.

[gonch19]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chelseablue:

Robben >>>>>

All the best. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

he's right you know

[snipersdream]

Today's random tidbits

* Giggs has rejected an offer of a one year extension on his contract, which would have kept him at OT till 2007. The Sunday Mirror says he's off in January. But they would, wouldn't they.

* "No new money for players till you clear out some of the sh1te you bought in the last 18 months", Gill tells SAF.

* And on that note, the Sunday Express reckons Djemba, Klebbo and Saha ( ) could be on their way.

[player_65]

selling to buy is well ands good, but tbh all we'd get is more averageness. Would Djemba and Kleberson get 5m between them for instance? I know you can calculate the removal of wages as well, but it's still harldy the kind of money needed for class midfielders (plural) which is what's required.

Even Giggs wouldn't get anything more than 5-8 million imo.

[Mika]

The actual quotes from Gill:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Manchester United chief executive David Gill has told Sir Alex Ferguson he will have to sell before he can buy next summer.

United have already spent next year's budget on the capture of Wayne Rooney from Everton and Gill says players will have to leave before any more new recruits are brought in.

He told the Sunday Express: "We intended to get Wayne Rooney next summer but we've bought him now. So that was next year's budget gone.

"You have now got to assess where we are as a team at the end of the season - what we have achieved, where the weaknesses are and try to work it out.

"Currently, in terms of the first-team squad, we've got 25 players. The manager has to give his views on those players and decide where the squad needs strengthening or where it doesn't need strengthening.

"Bodies will have to leave before we invest further. But bodies will have to leave anyway because of the numbers.

"If Sir Alex wanted to invest more we would have to lose someone. And all our players are high profile."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems fair enough tbh.

[player_65]

OK, I think I can name the 25 players

GK; (3) Carroll, Howard, Ricardo

Defenders: (6) Ferdinand, Brown, Silvestre, G. Neville, Heinze, O'Shea,

Midfielders10) Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Fortune, P. Neville & Fletcher

Strikers: (6) RVN, Saha, Smith, Rooney, Bellion, Solskjaer

who have I forgotten?

[snipersdream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mika:

The actual quotes from Gill:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> <snip> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Seems fair enough tbh. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, so I did a teensy bit of tabloid-esque paraphrasing...

[snipersdream]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by player_65:

selling to buy is well ands good, but tbh all we'd get is more averageness. Would Djemba and Kleberson get 5m between them for instance? I know you can calculate the removal of wages as well, but it's still harldy the kind of money needed for class midfielders (plural) which is what's required.

Even Giggs wouldn't get anything more than 5-8 million imo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, but as Shrek says, better out than in...

[Taz & The Devil]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by player_65:

OK, I think I can name the 25 players

_GK; (3)_ Carroll, Howard, Ricardo

_Defenders: (6)_ Ferdinand, Brown, Silvestre, G. Neville, Heinze, O'Shea,

_Midfielders10) _ Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba, Miller, Fortune, P. Neville & Fletcher

_Strikers: (6) _ RVN, Saha, Smith, Rooney, Bellion, Solskjaer

who have I forgotten? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats about it. Bellion and Ricardo to go and then the GK, Defence and Strike force seems very good. But then you look at the over stocked midfield and only Ronaldo looks indispensable.

[ACou2000]

I still have faith that Scholes will return to some great form and start banging in 30 yarders every other game.

*sigh*

[Confused Clarity]

Some papers reporting Giggs has rejected the new offer, the sources attributed to Giggs suggest its purely down to the length, they board want a 1 year deal, he wants more.

Other sources saying the board would prefer to sell him anyway, to make some money back on him.

Sounds to me, its pretty much the same thing that happened in the past with Irwin and McClair, both wanted longer deals, as did Fergie, PLC doesnt.

be a shame to see Giggs go, unlike some of you, i think he could still offer us something. If we sell him, maybe we could get the ever interested Inter Milan to consider some kind of deal involving Emre coming the other way.

[Taz & The Devil]

The giggs contract dispute was reported before Giggs was on about restructuring pay deals. The dispute is like Gregg said, board only want to give him 1 year and Giggs wants 2.

[player_65]

the only future Giggs has imo is as backup for a new and improved left winger. that said, he'd probably have to go to raise the funds for one.

[Confused Clarity]

I think that a lot of people are being a bit unfair on Giggs. Since Heinze has been playing regularly with him, he's started to show flashes of the player we know he used to be.

Then it gets you wondering and you realise, that the last real time he had any major impact for us, regularly, was with Irwin behind him.

Silvestre was always saying about how he wanted to play centre, how he wasnt a fullback and didnt want to play there, so, although he was playing there, and playing, in a way, well, maybe there was a case, of him not doing enough in the partnership with Giggs to allow Giggs to play his natural game there.

Heinze, on the other hand, who could also be described as either a full back, or a centreback has said nothing like that regarding being played in what many feel is the weaker of his two posistions, and has said that he will play where the manager wants him to play. The same was the case with Irwin, who was really a right sided fullback converted to a left sided fullback.

Dont know what you guys think of that way of looking at it, but i'd thought i'd throw that up for discussion.

[player_65]

Silvestre liked to get forward an awful lot from left-back, maybe that inhibited Giggs from his attacking game a little, mindful of not leaving space behind him.

I tend to disagree with your point though, a combination of no pressure and time have reduced Giggs to what he shows today form my point of view, rather than an unsettled full-back. Actually, as another possible point, may his seeming end of hamstring trouble have something to do with it?

Does he hold back slightly now having had so many problems? Another possible theory, or just rubbish?

[ACou2000]

Don't really think Silvestres feeling that he was naturally a CB and didnt want to play on the left would really affect the partnership though - as far as I can remember he did all the things youd expect from a full back (although did like to make a mistake or two) and its cant really be used as an excuse for Giggs being poor.

And, really, Giggs needs to start showing more than the odd flash of skill but thats all I have seen from him for a long time now..

Having said all that - I wouldnt want us to get rid of him just yet. Firstly, we dont have anybody who could really fill in (unless Miller becomes a permanent right winger :/) and secondly he'd still be a very useful squad player.

Let's just go and get Downing with that money we dont have..

[foobR]

Giggs is the least of our problems

[snipersdream]

If Giggs gets his way, he'll still be among the clubs top-earners till he's 34/35. Age isn't kind to wingers (just ask Kanchelskis) and Ryan is no exception - his pace diminishes year on year. Could we really justify paying top whack?

(I always thought he'd find his feet in a central position once he hit his 30s, but he just doesn't seem to have the attributes for it).

[gonch19]

i dont think giggs has the influence to be a match winner anymore. this was demonstrated perfectly against city last week when he was through on goal and didnt even get a shot on target. if we want to be winning leagues and champions leagues i think he needs to improve drastically on his form of the last year, or find a new club. he's a legend at manchester united and its hard to imagine man u without him certainly for me as he's been there ever since ive been a fan, but at the same time football moves on- denis law is a legend but that doesnt mean we're going to ask him back.

[Nick OGS20]

Can completely understand the board only offering a 1 year extension, as Ryan's certainly not done enough to warrant a longer deal lately. I can understand him rejecting it too, as I'm sure he'd think that, considering his loyalty and service, he deserves a bit more than 1 extra year. It'd be nice if he took the one year and then set about trying to justify any extra, but I guess it doesn't work that way.