Giraffin Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, macca72 said: Nice. I have mine with "sit narrower" too - to keep them as close to the AF as possible I had that too, but I removed it because of the TI "Exploit both flanks" as I know CF's often roam out on the flanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksmithlfc1234 Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 plugged this in V man city away and beat them 6-1 , I am Liverpool, first season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 4 hours ago, Ross Kemp on Ganks said: Won the Quadruple in 3rd season with this tactic. Lost 2 games all season, Barca away 1-2 in CL Group Stage and Man Utd away 2 games before the end of the season no invincibles but i'll try again this year. If you posted this on places like fm-base, people would be all over this tactic. Impressive results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemaka Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 Ok so I've disabled "get stuck in" setting in team instructions as well as "tackle harder' for all the players, and played with this for 3 months with Juve (also enabled offside traps,). Tactic familiarity was fluid. Got quite a few less yellow, and no red cards, and conceded almost the same amount of goals. So I think it's safe to say that a) harder tackles are not needed at all (unless you want to test yourself playing 10 vs 11 a lot) and b) using offside trap doesn't do much in terms of improving your defensive game (but also it doesn't make tactic worse). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 Reminds me of an eye test - better with or without. Can you post results of 3mths with and those without Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantorras77 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I want you all to see how absolute CRAP this game is!! There is ZERO explanation for this!! to go from 11 wins a row and be in first place by 5pts to only winning 3 games in the next 21!!! and I miss out on a Eruopean spot by 1 freaking win!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arukeiz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hey Knap, Thanks for all your tactics throughout the years. I have a question regarding BLUE MATTER 433 : if I had to choose one key player in this formation, who should I choose ? My team is pretty good right now, and I've plenty of cash, so I'd like to buy one great player for my team. (I think both of the complete forwards are important, but not sure about how much each player is vital). Thanks alot ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewhirst Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 People are mentioning SUS (shut up shop). Is there a particular tactic people use for this or just men behind the ball and contain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 hours ago, mantorras77 said: I want you all to see how absolute CRAP this game is!! There is ZERO explanation for this!! to go from 11 wins a row and be in first place by 5pts to only winning 3 games in the next 21!!! and I miss out on a Eruopean spot by 1 freaking win!!! That usually means your team is not up to scratch. Once you improve it, stuff like that won't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Testing in a controlled environment last year showed reputation changed the results you get with all the tactics tested in this way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Over a 21 game test I have so far concluded that get stuck in did not improve the tactic but gained more red yellow cards. However, changing tackling the tactic underperformed buy 11 pts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 I use a SUS tactic in game rather than save the tactic. As it can be used with any tactic it is better to know how to make a SUS tactic The steps are Change WBs to defend stopping forward runs and protecting your wing area. The AI will change to Attack duties. Can also use a defensive FB. Change as per screenshot - defensive mentality can use contain or counter Add waste time Add take a breather Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burnum Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Do you still use offside trap with a SUS tactic? Men behind ball usually means sitting really deep and not using offside trap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 I don't. - I used to only change WBs and add waste time so 4 changes is overkill for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Osmann Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Good tactic overall. keep up the good work,, Knap. Have enjoyed your tatics since FM 2016 By the way, how to you make tactic arrows? Like having the FBs running up/movement ect.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 FM08 was the last FM with movement arrows. Any favourite tactic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooders11 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 My West Ham team is on fire. Superb tactic. I've noticed on the thread a few people have signed Arthur and Max Romero. I've had bids for both accepted in the first winter window but both have had permits turned down. How did the people who signed them manage to get the work permits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arukeiz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Hey Knap, thanks for the good work. Which position/player is the most important in this tactic ? thanks ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 WBs and STs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arukeiz Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 1 hour ago, knap said: WBs and STs Thanks ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 How come this tactic doesn't have offside trap on, while others do? They're all on attacking mentality, after all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 22, 2017 Author Share Posted November 22, 2017 Maybe not on last year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantorras77 Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 On 11/18/2017 at 03:08, burnum said: Any chance you make a 4-3-3 with 1 pure striker and 2 IF on the outside? @knap please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Already played 25 matches as Bilbao Manager, made some abservations about the tactic. Winning ratio looks good, and i'm close to qualify for CL, and keep my main players like Laporte, Iturraspe and Williams in the squad. Strange is, that - comparing to the other La Liga teams - we're playing much better football away, than at home. Let's look at the home/away stats. At home we're losing goals after opposition counterattacks, and the situation looks different, when playing abroad. We're creating many chances, but our conversion rate is very low, even with players like Aduriz, Raul Garcia and Williams up front. At the end, one curiosity, Barcelona in possesion table is placed 14th, with 49,6% score <wow> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 IIs the counter arising from a specific situation. The Reputation effect may be causing Barcelona stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Yes, i observed something called "reputation effect" too. For me it's much easier to win matches against the big Spanish trio than against outsiders. I've won both matches vs Real Madrid (1:0 at home, 2:1 away), both matches vs Barcelona (2:1 at home, 2:1 away), grabbed 0:0 draw vs Atletico away, but lost many points after really awful matches vs Alaves, Betis or Las Palmas at home, where they created similar number of CCC to my team. I'll try some mentality or specific team instruction changes for clashes with underdogs. Maybe more patient attack building, to avoid long balls ping-pong, which was the main cause of more than a half goals lost at home, or against weaker opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_x Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 Smashed the Vanarama National League with Leyton Orient, 135 goals in 45 games, won by 25 points. Got a counter tactic for when leading, but mainly play with the normal tactic Tempted to try your 442 @knap but this is so good that it's hard to imagine it would be better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 FM17 mentality was based around the counter risk despite being attacking team. Maybe FM 18 mentality risk has been tweaked, so attacking and counter risks work as they should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 I have noticed that the top AI teams appear low scoring, which may also relate to reputation. and maybe worse than last year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I've been trying your SUS suggestions plus some other variations and haven't really noticed that it helps consistently when wanting to preserve the lead. When AI goes all in, it's often better to just keep attacking and outscore them, because they WILL score, out of nothing if need be. One thing to bear in mind in the future is definitely how to make a defensively stable tactic, or at least two versions, offensive/defensive. This one scores crazy, but it also concedes a lot unless you have superior players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 23, 2017 Author Share Posted November 23, 2017 they WILL score, out of nothing if need be1!!! A SUS is very much a last 10 mins tactic, unless somebody sent off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricotero_uy Posted November 23, 2017 Share Posted November 23, 2017 I used this tactic with my favourite team in Uruguay. A small team called Sud América. The media prediction was to be relegated but it was amazing how the team performed, although some of the players used didn't fit into the roles of the tactic, their performances were superb. We won the Apertura, the Intermedio (Is a new tournament where the table is split in two, 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15 into Group A and 2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16 into Group B and then after 7 matches the winners of each group play a final). We fight for the Clausura but lost it before the last match against Defensor, the winners of the tournament. As winners of the Apertura we had to play against Defensor as winners of the Clausura for a "semifinal". As we won the overall table if we had won that match we could have won the Championship, but lost 3-2 and went to the finals. Won the two matches and get the championship for the first time in history. We broke a lot of records but the most incredible was Fernando Morena's topscorer record from 1978 (36 goals) was broken by Gastón Colmán (our AF) with 41 (plus 7 in the Intermedio which are not counted) Apertura Results & Standings Intermedio Results & Standings Clausura Results & Standings Overall Standings Gastón Colmán's Stats Best XI Ratings Great job @knap!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M.F.C Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Hi Knap, Sorry if it has been asked, but what is the best match prep ? Defensive positionning ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 I am using FMT atm but usually use AM for all training. This is from last year with regard to training PRE-SEASON general training -TEAM COHESION HIGH scheduling 50% (no rest before-no rest after match) match preparation = MATCH TACTICS before the 1st game of the season general training -BALANCE AVERAGE (no rest before -REST after match) keep 50% match preparation MATCH TACTICS until 100% fluid, after that the training should be like this general training BALANCE AVERAGE (no rest before- REST after match) 10 or 20 % ( i prefer 10%) match preparation (whatever you like, it depends from the opponent - except match tactics and teamwork , its pointless to use these because when you have 100% fluid your players have good understanding) this till the end of the season , of course if you buy some players in January you drop the familiarity and you must again adjust the scheduling to 50% and match tactics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trijung Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Anyone else having problems with this tactic after the update? I won the league with Bournemouth in my first season, but somehow after improving my squad alot and updating the game, I am in 8th place at the end of December in my second season. We seem to not create as many big chances as the season before, except for some games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Testing last year (and this year) showed that tactics performed better with a lower reputation than a higher reputation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby90 Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 knap,which of your tactics would you use with lazio team, BM 433 or MIDSOMER 442 Flat?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 2 hours ago, trijung said: Anyone else having problems with this tactic after the update? I won the league with Bournemouth in my first season, but somehow after improving my squad alot and updating the game, I am in 8th place at the end of December in my second season. We seem to not create as many big chances as the season before, except for some games. Teams play much more conservatively against you, that's why these high tempo, counter attacking tactics don't work as well when your reputation rises. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandersson Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 Yeah the 'easiest' games for me are always against bigger teams. Now that my club has a better reputation than before an increasing number of average/small teams are now playing more defensively and these are the hardest matches for me. The typical brazilian 4-2-2-2 DM narrow stacked with defensive duties is still my nightmare . Generally I counter that with more traditional WB's providing width and crosses, but the variety of good chances from counter isn't there anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 As I test mostly with top teams with high reputation, most sides already play conservatively. The top sides do have quality players to overcome defensive sides. My best test side last year was Spurs balancing between attacking/defensive AI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandersson Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 I think the 'good' thing of premier league in FM is more clubs tend to play more attacking especially at home, and with their money have the potential to buy great players and grow in reputation. In some less reputable leagues clubs might be quicker to turn very defensive and see themselves as underdogs once your club has become a 'top' club in that league. Which is fair I guess, but once they go defending they all become so good at that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Looking at some of the tables it looks like the top AI teams cannot score, which may indicate defensive tactics are too effective. Also having every AI team parking the bus, does not make a good game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jersve Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 i used blumatter first season w arsenal, won League, Euro league and carabao.. second season 12 league games in im top of the league and im beating the crap out of most teams but still struggling vs topsides away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knap Posted November 24, 2017 Author Share Posted November 24, 2017 Top sides should always give you problems, but I played this the other day and probably should not happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jersve Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 yeah, at home its usually fine. cant find a good tactic away though ! just won vs spurs 3-0 at home! this win vs barca, is that bluematter with spurs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirajzl Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 My experience with top teams away has been that it's usually an end to end, frantic match, with lots and lots of chances on both sides. Results like 4-4 or 6-5 are not a rarity. Good thing when playing two legged cup ties is that you usually smash them at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jersve Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 yeah! thats true.. seems like im far from an upsetting result in a top game away from home though.. but still, this tactic is really really good w arsenal! =) brilliant knap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jersve Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 top game at home vs United =) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mielony Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 first season, winning important away matches, playing with counter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jersve Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, mielony said: first season, winning important away matches, playing with counter. The same formation but just these instruction changes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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