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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2018 *Official* Feedback Thread

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1 minute ago, rdbayly said:

Agree - I've been enjoying an old FM17 save this past week. Many shots from distance, whilst not resulting in goals, whistle past the post or just over the bar. I can accept this and at least near misses are exciting.

That's a very valid point (not that I'm saying you need my validation). It is what it is for FM18, but one for SI to certainly consider perception wise at least. in my view anyway

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I notice since the update that on the scouting cards, they've removed the estimated cost of a scouted player and his likelihood to join the club. You now need to hover over the 'score' for this information, or click to the report. Used to be handy having this information right there so you could make a quick decision on whether to discard the player or not. I can't see any upside to this change. Are SI just trolling customers this year with the UI changes, making it more awkward instead of more intuitive?  :mad:

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I still can’t believe users are arguing in here that shots are going out for a throw in because of tactics and that’s acceptable. If that is the case in FM then it’s something that the tactics are having too big a say in. If it’s not a case of saying ‘shoot less often’ then the game isn’t making it easy enough for the player. 

If you ask any top manager in world football why you are seeing a number of shots go out for a throw they won’t be saying it’s because of tactics. 

It’s fair enough to say in the realms of the game world you can make lots of tweaks to stop it happening but the fact remains; in real life you wouldn’t have to. 

And this is because the AI/ME has some obvious issues which causes it to shoot slightly too often as a default setting. Remember, this is a match engine where it is impossible for a goalkeeper to be sent off. It’s just not coded so it’s not a stretch to see there are other issues too - especially with too many long shots going for a throw. 

Edited by DP

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46 minutes ago, DP said:

I still can’t believe users are arguing in here that shots are going out for a throw in because of tactics and that’s acceptable.

I haven't seen anybody say that shots going out for throw ins are solely because of tactics, let alone it's acceptable?  Perhaps I've missed it in these 47 pages (which is quite possible), do you have a link to it?

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6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I haven't seen anybody say that shots going out for throw ins are solely because of tactics, let alone it's acceptable?  Perhaps I've missed it in these 47 pages (which is quite possible), do you have a link to it?

1. I didn’t say solely

2.  The fact of the matter is that most bad long shots are due to the poor tactical instructions the user have given the team.

That’s a direct quote from the previous page. 

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1 minute ago, DP said:

1. I didn’t say solely

2.  The fact of the matter is that most bad long shots are due to the poor tactical instructions the user have given the team.

That’s a direct quote from the previous page. 

Yes SI keep always saying.. it’s your tactics when I previously mentioned I created a “perfect player” and did the same exact test in Fm 16,17,18 and in FM18 I hardly scored any free kicks or long shots while in FM 16 and 17 the player scored 10-15 free kicks + long shots, someone even went and mentioned that if this was an unrealistic test you get unrealistic results it’s just incredible what people come up with to protect a flawed game! I just gave up anyways, we will have to wait FM19 now! Thanks....

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4 minutes ago, penza said:

I created a “perfect player” and did the same exact test in Fm 16,17,18 and in FM18

Ok did you benchmark your test? You do this by asking the assman to use whatever tactic he feels like using, and then holiday mode till the end of the season and then compare the two results. It's not ideal but at least you have an either/or. It would be very interesting then if he didn't get any free kicks either

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

That's a very valid point (not that I'm saying you need my validation). It is what it is for FM18, but one for SI to certainly consider perception wise at least. in my view anyway

It seems that way, but with the fluctuating DFKs... this is officially oft attributed to ball physics and changes made. There have been releases in the past were fewer dfks were scored. The "problem" naturally with any of such physics tweak is that is doesn't merely influence goals from range, but everything. Additionally, it's not at all just perception, in particular depending on which release you were coming from. This was obviously an edited database back then (full match details), but SI have also conducted somewhere that most of their customers buy the game roughly every 2 years I think. From my experience, ranged attempts are by a countrymile the most fluctuating finishing type from release to release bar none, apparently due to the physics -- the "one on ones" where this is infinetely less of a factor are apparently "broken" every year, 100% consistency from release to release. ;)

aCKeOVF.png


A suggestion: Similar to the medical centre, which was in parts introduced so that players have a benchmark to go by (fantastic decision) -- Si may in a future iteration provide the same to check ourselves how many shots from specific positions of the pitch are on/off target, blocked, and resulting in the goal. E.g. a bit like this -- or however their official partner STATS collects all this. https://understat.com/player/488 As this is only this much use if there is no way to compare this to what's happening out there -- link it all with feedback that STATS collect for the actual game of football even, perhaps. Perhaps via hyperlinks to their data in the game, data streamed from STATS straight into the game's UI somewhere, I dunno -- and hey, wasn't there a data analyst introduced already in the game a while ago?)

Edited by Svenc

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6 minutes ago, DP said:

1. I didn’t say solely

2.  The fact of the matter is that most bad long shots are due to the poor tactical instructions the user have given the team.

That’s a direct quote from the previous page. 

Yeh I was involved in that little discussion.  Most bad long shots are indeed due to poor tactical instructions and the players you use in the system, it's always been that way.  If you want a system that reduces long shots so you get more shots of a better quality coming from inside the box, use tactical instructions to help you achieve that.  Long shots by their very nature are going to be poor quality attempts and your tactical instructions / player attributes can exaggerate or diminish the effect.

Can tactical instructions also help to reduce the frequency of long shots going nearer the corner flag than the goal?  Yes, for the same reasons above - improve the quality of your shot making overall and by default that can also change.  The frequency of such shots might be a odd in the first place and that's perhaps where SI could look to tweak things - ie., even if your system isn't set up to reduce long shots, at least tweak the ME to reduce the amount of long shots that go to the corner flag (as mentioned above) - but in the mean time you can still influence the overall amount of long shots taken through your own tactical system and players available.

If you don't believe you can influence the overall amount of long shots taken by tactical settings, head over to the Tactics forum.

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10 minutes ago, Svenc said:

It seems that way, but with the fluctuating DFKs... this is officially oft attributed to ball physics and changes made. There have been releases in the past were fewer dfks were scored. The "problem" naturally with any of such physics tweak is that is doesn't merely influence goals from range, but everything. Additionally, it's not at all just perception, in particular depending on which release you were coming from. This was obviously an edited database back then (full match details), but SI have also conducted somewhere that most of their customers buy the game roughly every 2 years I think. From my experience, ranged attempts are by a countrymile the most fluctuating finishing type from release to release bar none, apparently due to the physics -- the "one on ones" where this is infinetely less of a factor are apparently broken every year, 100% consistency from release to release. ;)

aCKeOVF.png


A suggestion: Similar to the medical centre, which was in parts introduced so that players have a benchmark to go by (fantastic decision) -- Si may in a future iteration provide the same to check ourselves how many shots from specific positions of the pitch are on/off target, blocked, and resulting in the goal. E.g. a bit like this -- or however their official partner STATS collects all this. https://understat.com/player/488

Were the above figures from FM17? I have to say it was way too easy in last year's release to score from DFKs if you signed a set piece specialist and trained in free kick PPMs. I would expect the end of season figures to be less than half of those in your screenshot. 

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Going through the "front page" of each club in Championship, League One and League Two a few years into the future, it appears that every club except for two (Bristol City and Tranmere) has a manager (if newgen), captain and vice-captain that share the excact same skin tone. It may be a coincidence, but that is 70 clubs. The other players at those clubs have the "normal" variation of skin color.

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Yeh I was involved in that little discussion.  Most bad long shots are indeed due to poor tactical instructions and the players you use in the system, it's always been that way.  If you want a system that reduces long shots so you get more shots of a better quality coming from inside the box, use tactical instructions to help you achieve that.  Long shots by their very nature are going to be poor quality attempts and your tactical instructions / player attributes can exaggerate or diminish the effect.

Can tactical instructions also help to reduce the frequency of long shots going nearer the corner flag than the goal?  Yes, for the same reasons above - improve the quality of your shot making overall and by default that can also change.  The frequency of such shots might be a odd in the first place and that's perhaps where SI could look to tweak things - ie., even if your system isn't set up to reduce long shots, at least tweak the ME to reduce the amount of long shots that go to the corner flag (as mentioned above) - but in the mean time you can still influence the overall amount of long shots taken through your own tactical system and players available.

If you don't believe you can influence the overall amount of long shots taken by tactical settings, head over to the Tactics forum.

I know you can as the poster has proved. My point is that I shouldn’t have to dissect a tactics forum to stop the number of long shots. It shouldn’t be as difficult as that. 

SI need to make it easier to play how you want to. It’s absurd to suggest users have to go to a dedicated forum to stop something that should be easy to stop. It isn’t though as there’s something fundamental off with the ME which makes them too frequent. 

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14 hours ago, herne79 said:

Yeh I was involved in that little discussion.  Most bad long shots are indeed due to poor tactical instructions and the players you use in the system, it's always been that way.  If you want a system that reduces long shots so you get more shots of a better quality coming from inside the box, use tactical instructions to help you achieve that.  Long shots by their very nature are going to be poor quality attempts and your tactical instructions / player attributes can exaggerate or diminish the effect.

Can tactical instructions also help to reduce the frequency of long shots going nearer the corner flag than the goal?  Yes, for the same reasons above - improve the quality of your shot making overall and by default that can also change.  The frequency of such shots might be a odd in the first place and that's perhaps where SI could look to tweak things - ie., even if your system isn't set up to reduce long shots, at least tweak the ME to reduce the amount of long shots that go to the corner flag (as mentioned above) - but in the mean time you can still influence the overall amount of long shots taken through your own tactical system and players available.

If you don't believe you can influence the overall amount of long shots taken by tactical settings, head over to the Tactics forum.

I disagree with you that this long shots are poor tactical instructions. I played FM17 for 800 hours and never saw a world class players like Messi and Neymar hit the corner flag, their long shots were more "correct", like RL players, and the same tactic with the same instructions produced this shots. If what people say that "the ME don't change through the years,your tactic from previous years will work fine on new versions" is true, why last year I haven't see a single corner flag shot and in FM18 my best players seen to like to hit there?

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16 hours ago, booble said:

in the player search my customised view keeps on disappearing. unbelievable that this is still an issue as it was fixed in 18.2. seriously SI, this game on all aspects has gone backwards. SI has becomes the new EA. i think the times has come to stop buying this game it seems the developers seem to have lost their passion for FM. 

Probably best to raise it in the UI forums so it can be addressed - https://community.sigames.com/forum/585-user-interface-issues/

The thing with game code, often when making changes to say potentially fix an issue, it can have a knock-on elsewhere. It's extremely difficult to test every single panel and UI functionality in the game, especially so when things are constantly changing. 

We never intentionally break anything and always will strive to try and fix issues once they are raised with our QA team via the bugs forum where we can.

Thanks. 

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8 hours ago, masno said:

I disagree with you that this long shots are poor tactical instructions.

I'm not saying they "are" poor tactical instructions.

I'm saying that if your tactical system is set up in such a way that your players take a lot of long shots, the chances of you also seeing these wild long shots may increase.  Whereas if most of your shots come from inside the box, you may not see quite as many wild misses.  In other words there may be a correlation that as the overall amount of long shots increase you may also see an increase in the number of long shots which hit the corner flag.  And we can reduce the overall amount of long shots through tactical settings.  Will that cure the wild long shots issue?  No and I've never said that it will.  But it may reduce the chance of it happening.

I've been briefly testing this as well.  When I look at my shot maps after matches, the times I see long shots hit the corner flag are usually when my team (or the opposition) have made a higher overall proportion of long shots.  When the majority of shots come from inside the box in other matches, such wild shots are much less frequent.

I've also said this above which seems to be ignored:

23 hours ago, herne79 said:

even if your system isn't set up to reduce long shots, at least tweak the ME to reduce the amount of long shots that go to the corner flag (as mentioned above)

So whilst a high proportion of long shots will always miss the target because by their very nature long shots are poor quality chances, perhaps there is scope for SI to tweak things in the ME so that when a wild shot happens, it doesn't go out near the corner flag quite so regularly.

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The Playersearch Window in the Scouting Section has the Position now following an "AND" logic and no longer an "OR" logic so for example i can not any longer select left and right Wing Back position and get a list of left or right wing backs now i get only those displayed that are both left and right Wing Backs.

Old search templates are unaffected it happens only to new search templates or when you change and save an old one.

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On 3/10/2018 at 11:19, herne79 said:

Yeh I was involved in that little discussion.  Most bad long shots are indeed due to poor tactical instructions and the players you use in the system, it's always been that way.  If you want a system that reduces long shots so you get more shots of a better quality coming from inside the box, use tactical instructions to help you achieve that.  Long shots by their very nature are going to be poor quality attempts and your tactical instructions / player attributes can exaggerate or diminish the effect.

Can tactical instructions also help to reduce the frequency of long shots going nearer the corner flag than the goal?  Yes, for the same reasons above - improve the quality of your shot making overall and by default that can also change.  The frequency of such shots might be a odd in the first place and that's perhaps where SI could look to tweak things - ie., even if your system isn't set up to reduce long shots, at least tweak the ME to reduce the amount of long shots that go to the corner flag (as mentioned above) - but in the mean time you can still influence the overall amount of long shots taken through your own tactical system and players available.

If you don't believe you can influence the overall amount of long shots taken by tactical settings, head over to the Tactics forum.

I disagree a fair bit here. Setring work ball into the box and player instructions not to long shoot unless they have a high rating does not have a significant difference

I'll agree long shots will have a much lower success rating but every shot going over the bar is not realistic. You are expecting also a fair few easy saves for the keeper, some standard saves and a few great saves. This is not happening

The direction of shots at times from player positions can be at times baffling. We all know mis-hits are frequent under pressure and at pace subject to player skill but in a single match you can see top class players making shots that are consistently missing goal direction, let alone toward the target, side netting, roof of the net etc

It would be good to seem some SI analysis here

Anyway nothing will happen until FM19 but I hope this with some other key issues around positioning, Benny Hill style defensive players chases (in a line) of the attacker with ball get looked at as a higher priority

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28 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

I disagree a fair bit here. Setring work ball into the box and player instructions not to long shoot unless they have a high rating does not have a significant difference

I know, I purposely didn't mention those instructions.  I've commented elsewhere about my thoughts on them and how they can be ambiguous and misleading.

Here's a post I made recently.  In there is a shot map where most of my shots come from inside the area and I haven't used such instructions.  Interestingly the team on the left of the shot map picture (Bayern) had one of those of wild long shots that went out at the corner flag and only one of their shots was attempted from inside the box.  Coincidence?

 

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26 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I know, I purposely didn't mention those instructions.  I've commented elsewhere about my thoughts on them and how they can be ambiguous and misleading.

Here's a post I made recently.  In there is a shot map where most of my shots come from inside the area and I haven't used such instructions.  Interestingly the team on the left of the shot map picture (Bayern) had one of those of wild long shots that went out at the corner flag and only one of their shots was attempted from inside the box.  Coincidence?

 

I agree but i have seen strikers shoot pretty much near the corner flag... inside the area with no defenders pressuring them and one-on-one vs the keeper and no tight angle! most of my goals also come from inside the area and long shot goals are very rare, and so are free kicks as per my above post!

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

I know, I purposely didn't mention those instructions.  I've commented elsewhere about my thoughts on them and how they can be ambiguous and misleading.

Here's a post I made recently.  In there is a shot map where most of my shots come from inside the area and I haven't used such instructions.  Interestingly the team on the left of the shot map picture (Bayern) had one of those of wild long shots that went out at the corner flag and only one of their shots was attempted from inside the box.  Coincidence?

 

A poacher by his role type will be a 6 yard box striker so you would expect this...he is effectively a goal hanger living in the 6 yard box and shooting within it. As mentioned Lineker is a good example

The game is flawed if other player types, forward / midfield are not following player or team instructions, in addition the ME is not reflecting this and IMHO is exampling play graphical with many shots not any where near the target

So 3 key issues here:

1. Team Instructions are not followed correctly by ME

2. Player Instructions are not followed correctly by ME

3. Either the ME or the graphical interpretation in game of the ME has some issues

If we look at FM17 there wasn't these issues or the issue wasn't on this scale. Same as player positioning / closing down etc. This suggests the ME has regressed. There are a few very common and key issues constantly being reported as bugs. I'm sure its not being ignored by SI. I suspect at the time this was highlighted a tactical decision was taken to not tweak it for fear of undoing something else

I think what is missing is some response acknowledging / advising its being looked it. this is better for gamers than constantly logging bugs and examples which eventually causes distress and posts reflect it. I know the devs are not so keen to post in the forums these days

Anyway  I hope its profile has been raised sufficiently for FM19 - fingers crossed ;)

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45 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

A poacher by his role type will be a 6 yard box striker so you would expect this

Agreed.  I could also link similar shot maps for 3rd tier teams that don't use a Poacher.

In no way am I denying there are ME issues (despite what some others think) because there are indeed issues.  My point all along is really nothing more than sometimes our own tactical settings can exaggerate or even cause issues without realising it.  And "without realising it" is an issue in itself as the game can lack in certain areas which may help with this.

48 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

Anyway  I hope its profile has been raised sufficiently for FM19 - fingers crossed ;)

Yup :thup:.

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1 hour ago, MrPompey said:

I think what is missing is some response acknowledging / advising its being looked it. this is better for gamers than constantly logging bugs and examples which eventually causes distress and posts reflect it. I know the devs are not so keen to post in the forums these days

To be honest, I am still completely mystified as to why SI don't produce a public roadmap.

I'm a web designer and digital marketer, and over the last few days I have been taking a look at an email marketing tool for an upcoming blog post. The business is managed by just three people, and even they have managed to put together a roadmap: https://trello.com/b/cbg2xDI6/lemlist-roadmap.

They find it incredibly useful by all accounts, and it has actually helped them make significant improvements to their software very, very quickly.

FM has virtually no competition, so that can't be the reason why features/enhancements are kept under wraps. And it doesn't have the pulling power of something like GTA, so the "mystery" marketing that Rockstar does so well really doesn't work well for FM.

For the first time since 2012 I haven't bought the latest version of Football Manager, and I've made the right choice by all accounts. Never seen so much negative feedback about an ME since 13.

I would advise everyone to switch to a March buying cycle. That way you will know if the game has improved enough for you.

Edited by Golden Boot
Spelling mistake

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28 minutes ago, Golden Boot said:

To be honest, I am still completely mystified as to why SI don't produce a public roadmap.

It's pretty obvious why they don't.  If they say they want a very specific feature to be in the game and it isn't there, then they don't look very good, and open themselves up to the less enlightened to fire into them.  If they go too vague, they open themselves up to that anyway due to most not understanding how development works.  You say "managed by just three people" like that makes it somehow harder.  Of course it's easier to provide a roadmap for a smaller product.  

Of course it would be nice to know more about what they're planning, but it's so, so easy to see why they don't.

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A dont think a road map is about specific low level features, its about a clear progression path for high level areas e.g. the direction you intend to travel

Once upon a time they advised they would only change the ME every other year to stabilise it. Its not happening. You can have all the features you like but if the game play isnt right it becomes disappointing and detracts from all the good stuff. i think its about maintaining balance and for this release it hasnt been achieved

I currently have no enthusiasm for FM18 unfortunately because of this

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24 minutes ago, Golden Boot said:

I would advise everyone to switch to a March buying cycle.

No thanks! I pre-ordered, downloaded the beta on launch day, and have had months of hugely-enjoyable gameplay. I've had saves at non-league level, and every division up to and including the Premiership. I've had saves in France, Germany, Italy and Holland, and been realistically successful or not in all of them. Yes, there are issues with the game but nothing even close to making it unplayable, or seriously detrimental to my enjoyment.

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10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

It's pretty obvious why they don't.  If they say they want a very specific feature to be in the game and it isn't there, then they don't look very good, and open themselves up to the less enlightened to fire into them.  If they go too vague, they open themselves up to that anyway due to most not understanding how development works.  You say "managed by just three people" like that makes it somehow harder.  Of course it's easier to provide a roadmap for a smaller product.  

Of course it would be nice to know more about what they're planning, but it's so, so easy to see why they don't.

I'm a leading authority on marketing; I run a very successful digital marketing agency, it's my job, and I know how it (and people) work.

Funny enough, giving customers what they actually want, rather than guessing what they want, works very, very well. That company I mentioned still has many, many customers and many, many competitors. It's far riskier for them to declare what they want to do with their product than it is for SI.

I just think more transparency about the future of the game would foster greater excitement around the product. Rather than "surprise" people with more burger vans, let's give people what they are actually craving. Like an editor for FMC or T, whatever it is now.

 

Edited by Golden Boot
Spelling mistake

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I've always wondered about them having a kind of working group with a selection of FM'rs either long, term short term, critics, specialists for specific FM functionality (you can see who raises, talks well about specific functionality) etc

I think its important for buyers of the game to have some input on its direction, even in a limited way. May be the forums provide some of this

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15 minutes ago, Golden Boot said:

I'm a leading authority on marketing; I run a very successful digital marketing agency, it's my job, and I know how it (and people) work.

Funny enough, giving customers what they actually want, rather than guessing what they want, works very, very well. That company I mentioned still has many, many customers and many, many competitors. It's far riskier for them to declare what they want to do with their product than it is for SI.

I just think more transparency about the future of the game would foster greater excitement around the product. Rather than "surprise" people with more burger vans, let's give people what they are actually craving. Like an editor for FMC or T, whatever it is now.

Which is a different (not massively, but still different) industry to what SI are doing, with a different customer base.  If we're playing "show 'is your CV", I develop for a leading Investment Bank on a risk management and trade booking system that sees trillions go through it each day.  We have users who request things, but they don't always get what they want.  Maybe because their request is rubbish, or it's impossible, or we simply have different priorities right now.  Sounds familiar.  We also have plenty of minor bugs that have been around for years.  We can't do everything, and some will probably be unhappy with that.  You can't please everyone.

I'm not saying it would be a bad thing for them to do, just that I can easily see why they don't.  You can't, and I'm sure you'll get over that.

7 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

I've always wondered about them having a kind of working group with a selection of FM'rs either long, term short term, critics, specialists for specific FM functionality (you can see who raises, talks well about specific functionality) etc

I think its important for buyers of the game to have some input on its direction, even in a limited way. May be the forums provide some of this

The danger with that though is that SI's view of who would make a decent working group would probably be very different to what the most vocal in the community believe would be good candidates.  There already is input, even if it's into a black box.  The feature suggestions forum is monitored, and I'd imagine if SI kept a record of such things, they could probably point to several people who either essentially proposed the feature from the ground up, or at least inspired it.  But at the same time, if they were to listen to every suggestion, the game would be a Frankenstein's monster of nonsense.  It's about listening to the right people, and the "right" people is often subjective to both sides.

EDIT: As an example, if I was on such a working group (which I've no real interest in being) then I'd be advocating for a fairly comprehensive API to be given so that the community can get more access to the game to provide more utilities that SI either don't want to, or don't have the time to provide.  But I also know that I'm probably going to be in a significant minority over (although there was talk of it towards the end of FML when I talked to one of the devs), and as a result it's pretty unlikely I'd get much support on that.  Fair enough.

Edited by forameuss

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@forameuss - As I said, perhaps there is this presence in the forums, but yes its a balance. Many vendors do this No-one is suggesting they need  listen to each idea/critique but they can see patterns and common requests and then match it or not with their own plans. There needs to be an element of involving the buyer in someway else they may ultimately stop buying. Likewise we have a product thats been running for 26 years so it needs to keep progressing and remaining engrossing and improve

The key bit which is being mentioned is the consistency of people highlighting the same issues.  Unfortunately they dont appear to have been addressed for this version

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this update or the winter update has completely buggerd the game imo!  everyb single goal now scored against is a cross and goal the last 14 goals every one a cross asnd goal. its boring and frustrating as nothign i can do about it. wb, fb. cwb. sit back dont sit back. man mark dont man mark it doesnt matter the fb or wb always loses the winger or forward guranteed. its crazy as well when you lose the ball and your bombing forward it might be you have 5 back and they have 2 forward you lose the bal and they counter but your team even though you dont have the poxy ball are still bombing forward and now its you have 2 defenders and they have 8 attackers and cross goal !! boring boring boring 

 

and whats with man marking doesnt work in the slightest !!

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5 hours ago, MrPompey said:

I disagree a fair bit here. Setring work ball into the box and player instructions not to long shoot unless they have a high rating does not have a significant difference

I'll agree long shots will have a much lower success rating but every shot going over the bar is not realistic. You are expecting also a fair few easy saves for the keeper, some standard saves and a few great saves. This is not happening

The direction of shots at times from player positions can be at times baffling. We all know mis-hits are frequent under pressure and at pace subject to player skill but in a single match you can see top class players making shots that are consistently missing goal direction, let alone toward the target, side netting, roof of the net etc

It would be good to seem some SI analysis here

Anyway nothing will happen until FM19 but I hope this with some other key issues around positioning, Benny Hill style defensive players chases (in a line) of the attacker with ball get looked at as a higher priority

why do we have to wait until 2019 for them to get it right ? just get some people in who can code properly and get the game doing exactly what it says on the tin. this game is going backwards each year in terms of the me and by the time they fix it ish he next onne is out and we go round and round in a circle again 

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How to absolutely positively definitely get your point listened to by the right people 101 right there...

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2 minutes ago, forameuss said:

How to absolutely positively definitely get your point listened to by the right people 101 right there...

your point ? 

 

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2 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

your point ? 

 

Well, if you have a complaint about the game, and you want it listened to - which I assume you do - then suggesting the people who make a very successful game "can't code properly" probably isn't the best way to go about it, is it?  It doesn't really matter then if you're spouting gibberish, or coming to them with a genuine problem that really needs addressed, it's not likely going to be taken very seriously.

Edited by forameuss

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well i dont know if you notice the forums but we are 47 pages in with most giving polite feedback along with the bug forums all the same feedback but um we are still no even close to the 17 me. if you cant get something to do what you advertise to do then something is wrong. its not marketing. its not hr. its not admin so who is responsible for how the me works ?? i would probably think the coders so if i was si i would start looking at these guys as everytime we seem to get our hopes up of a fix like they said wait for the winter patch that actually patched very little about the me 

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19 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

well i dont know if you notice the forums but we are 47 pages in with most giving polite feedback along with the bug forums all the same feedback but um we are still no even close to the 17 me. if you cant get something to do what you advertise to do then something is wrong. its not marketing. its not hr. its not admin so who is responsible for how the me works ?? i would probably think the coders so if i was si i would start looking at these guys as everytime we seem to get our hopes up of a fix like they said wait for the winter patch that actually patched very little about the me 

So you'd recommend that someone like, say, PaulC (Paul Collyer, one of the founding members of the game and SI) look into these awful people that have had input into the coding of the ME then?

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5 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

yeah i know who paul collyer ive played this since the amiga days and owned every copy. what would you suggest then ?

Well I was just asking.  Paul essentially built the match engine from those days, and is still heavily involved as far as I know.  Just wondered if you were suggesting he look at himself and ask whether he could really code.

Nothing I'd suggest would make any difference to you clearly, especially given you seem to think they can just punt the people who have made the ME what it is, and expect someone fresh off the street to be able to somehow turn it around and make it better very quickly.  Once again, like many others, you massively oversimplify things because when it comes to development you don't really know what you're talking about.

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5 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

yeah i know who paul collyer ive played this since the amiga days and owned every copy. what would you suggest then ?

Some constructive feedback (which this thread is for, might I add) where there is though and well intent behind the feedback instead of the horrid mess you call "suggestions". I seriously doubt the ME coders can't "code properly" as you so eloquently put it and suggestions such as this does nothing to entice the response from SI or the coders.

While there are clearly shortcomings in the game, that tone is far from deserved and quite frankly don't leave you in a good light to anyone. If you have bugs report them in the bugs section, and if you have general feedback then give it here in a proper civilized manner. Honestly, how hard is it to have normal manners, even on the internet?

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5 hours ago, penza said:

I agree but i have seen strikers shoot pretty much near the corner flag... inside the area with no defenders pressuring them and one-on-one vs the keeper and no tight angle! most of my goals also come from inside the area and long shot goals are very rare, and so are free kicks as per my above post!

Yesterday a striker from the team i was playing against received the ball in the area, some 3 meters to the side of the goal and shot the ball forward, so either the guy tried to shoot and fumbled it and hit the ball with the outside of his foot, and it went forward, or the guy was blind, there was nothing there, no goal, no players, nothing, i believed he would score because there were no defenders near him, no pressure, and the guy does that, it was in a way worst than the shots to the corner flag, wich in another game, the ball hit the corner flag itself and went out, i almost woke my wife laughing, they didn't even got the corner (this was a premiership game, not a conference game...)...LOL

 

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1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Well I was just asking.  Paul essentially built the match engine from those days, and is still heavily involved as far as I know.  Just wondered if you were suggesting he look at himself and ask whether he could really code.

 

There does come a point where a creator has to ask themselves whether they retain the creativity, current knowledge & technical skill to maintain their previously high standards.

Of course there are significantly more constructive ways to raise those questions than James Smith has demonstrated.

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1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Well I was just asking.  Paul essentially built the match engine from those days, and is still heavily involved as far as I know.  Just wondered if you were suggesting he look at himself and ask whether he could really code.

Nothing I'd suggest would make any difference to you clearly, especially given you seem to think they can just punt the people who have made the ME what it is, and expect someone fresh off the street to be able to somehow turn it around and make it better very quickly.  Once again, like many others, you massively oversimplify things because when it comes to development you don't really know what you're talking about.

this is a feedback thread and my feedback is take a look at what is happening as whatever they are doing at the mo is not working.... clearly. we are in march and the game me, the fundamental part of the game is a step backward from last yr.

if you carry on doing every day what you do everyday you cant expect anything to change. so if we are not getting to where the game wants to be or the fans want it to be then well you do the math.

 

also sounds to me like the old days in the forums, critisize the game and you get someone coming back with you dont know what you talking about or its your tactics, thought the forums had changed in this issue but no you boys are still around to blindly back the game despite it moving backwards with each patch.

and as i paid 30.00 for the game i get to critisice it if its not working properly 

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2 minutes ago, jamessmith010101 said:

this is a feedback thread and my feedback is take a look at what is happening as whatever they are doing at the mo is not working.... clearly. we are in march and the game me, the fundamental part of the game is a step backward from last yr.

if you carry on doing every day what you do everyday you cant expect anything to change. so if we are not getting to where the game wants to be or the fans want it to be then well you do the math.

 

also sounds to me like the old days in the forums, critisize the game and you get someone coming back with you dont know what you talking about or its your tactics, thought the forums had changed in this issue but no you boys are still around to blindly back the game despite it moving backwards with each patch.

and as i paid 30.00 for the game i get to critisice it if its not working properly 


But in what way is it a step backwards? That would be the helpful feedback.
Saying 'is not working' and 'is a step backward from last year' isn't really saying much.

2 hours ago, jamessmith010101 said:

this update or the winter update has completely buggerd the game imo!  everyb single goal now scored against is a cross and goal the last 14 goals every one a cross asnd goal. its boring and frustrating as nothign i can do about it. wb, fb. cwb. sit back dont sit back. man mark dont man mark it doesnt matter the fb or wb always loses the winger or forward guranteed. its crazy as well when you lose the ball and your bombing forward it might be you have 5 back and they have 2 forward you lose the bal and they counter but your team even though you dont have the poxy ball are still bombing forward and now its you have 2 defenders and they have 8 attackers and cross goal !! boring boring boring 

 

and whats with man marking doesnt work in the slightest !!


The reason i say what i say is that i have a completely different experience to what you're having.
I simply don't see the same thing you do. Great variety in goals and situations (to keep it short).

That's where clarification and examples are needed. That way they will understand exactly what you mean.
Because based on what you're saying with those loose examples i would simply say that it's your tactics (sorry). As i, in my matches, don't really see the same thing.
Real, proper feedback would help you and SI.

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FM18 is definitely a step back in goal variety, IMO.  There are a few goalscoring (or chance-creating) patterns that are way too common.

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Just to interject here. By all means constructively criticise the game. But if you're going to get personal about SI staff and their work (@jamessmith010101 I'm looking at you here) you will end up with infractions. I hope that's the last time I have to mention this. 

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Key word there is 'constructive'. If you're not happy with something then fair enough but I wish people would have the decency of cohesively stating what they thinks wrong, what they think it should be and back it up with stats/evidence/examples etc. That way SI have a fighting chance of responding - and if they don't then that's the time to ask why?

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