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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2018 *Official* Feedback Thread

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10 minutes ago, Svenc said:

Team talks are amonst the least influential parts of the game by a country mile (not that they are but cosmetical, mind). Bogus tactics oft spring bogus results though, no least as the AI has no means coded to counter them.

 

I don't change my tactics if I replay a match t, if I want to change a result, I just choose a different team talk and it solves the problems of motivation, nervousness, over motivated issues and I can turn a 5-0 loss into a 0-5 win.

 

In my current "learning FM18" game, I've made Everton Champions Cup and League winner, mostly with the starting players, just by changing team talks before a match to make them perform unbelievably well. What annoys me is that I have to play the match to learn my teams mood, I have no data to base the team talk on before the match.

Edited by Miravlix

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A rather odd moment in my last game - at the end I wanted to criticise a player for giving away the penalty that knocked us out of the cup yet could only criticise specif areas of play.

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For what its worth, here is my feedback. I think this game has a lot of potential and I'm sure it will come good at some point in the new year, but right now it is far from the complete version. I have been buying FM since 2007 and when I compare FM 2018 to every other version at the point we're at right now (2 or 3 weeks after release?), it has to be the worse of the lot with regards to bugs. Some people may not agree with that, but remember this is just my personal experience.

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i have a question, is it just me or is anyone else having problems with their computer crashing and restarting since the new update?

It's happened 4 times to me now.

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10 hours ago, Miravlix said:

 

I don't change my tactics if I replay a match t, if I want to change a result, I just choose a different team talk and it solves the problems of motivation, nervousness, over motivated issues and I can turn a 5-0 loss into a 0-5 win.

In my current "learning FM18" game, I've made Everton Champions Cup and League winner, mostly with the starting players, just by changing team talks before a match to make them perform unbelievably well.

 

This is spreading wrong notions about how this game roughly works. Given you've admitted to doing bonkers tactics, it's no surprise, as the game oft responds badly to them, and AI has limited means of reacting to them. If you want to make some sure, stick to formations/shapes AI utilizes. Which is no guarantee (currently, 3 central forwards being effective, etc.) But it's more likely to not break the game before it's started. Here's the run-down.

1. Player quality. By and largue, the better equipped team is more likely to win. There is creative means around that which make squads consistently hugely outperform all ability, but they rely on flaws always prone to be patched, and AI weakness that may not exist long-term
2. Tactics / match management.  Horrible tactics ignoring fundamentals of team sports can make any side underperform (Bayern AI assistant manager sometimes apparently advancing not a single player out wide -- illogical.) If your midfield is a complete walkin' when your side drops the ball, that happens every time no matter who you field and how well motivated they are. Also random, illogical in-match management randomizes results
3. Man management (which team talks are one of the smaller parts of). If a squad is badly managed, can make life difficult too.

That's about it. It's also logical. SI aim this to be a management simulation game, and no pep talk/hair dryer treatment has ever turned a mediocre side into title contenders all by itself, in particular not in leagues as unbalanced as the EPL. Even on that night in Istanbul, Liverpool still were a competitive side when being 0-3 down to Milan before that infamous minutes in the dressing room, a few tactical changes were made also, and the run of play with a quick reply allowed Liverpool to gain some hope again. It's only if you start thinking illogical that you could ever come to such conclusions, and the game's documentation/feedback can also take some blame. That tactics used may be interesting to look at either way.

Edited by Svenc

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21 hours ago, Maaka said:

Hæ? ¿Qué? Что?

If you're failing to score, it's not the game that is bugged, but most likely your tactics.

And here is my team? My team is good to scoring. But then in the current half the opponent can not scoring. And vice versa.

Im not talking about bug. Im talk about fact the engine is boring and statistically incorrect.

Edited by nikkk

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14 hours ago, Miravlix said:

This is a crap response, it seldom the tactics, because tactics is POINTLESS in this game, I've created totally bogus tactics, with all my player on the oppositions part of the pitch (except goal keeper) and I can still win as long as I get my TEAM TALKS right.

 

This game is ALL about team talks and nothing else, they mostly control if your team win or loss and how hard the opposition fight back, even Barcelona can turn into a relegation candidate if you get team talks wrong.

 

This is the single most stupid thing I've read on this forum. And that's up against some pretty stiff opposition. 

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I have lost one of the widgets in-match - it just won’t display even though ticked

tried clearing cache but no joy .... any ideas folks?

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Has the option to turn off player names on the 3D been removed, or am I just missing where it is now?

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On 25/11/2017 at 02:28, warlock said:

Or we can simply be honest and say that since the last update I'm seeing - maybe - one of these per match?

I'll say it: the ME is 100% better since the last hotfix.

The same efforts are made but the description has changed.

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3 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

I have lost one of the widgets in-match - it just won’t display even though ticked

tried clearing cache but no joy .... any ideas folks?


This worked for me when i had the same problem (Export any custom views first as doing this will delete them).
You will have to re-set your preferences again.
 

 

 

Edited by roykela

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10 hours ago, Svenc said:

This is spreading wrong notions about how this game roughly works. Given you've admitted to doing bonkers tactics, it's no surprise, as the game oft responds badly to them, and AI has limited means of reacting to them. If you want to make some sure, stick to formations/shapes AI utilizes. Which is no guarantee (currently, 3 central forwards being effective, etc.) But it's more likely to not break the game before it's started. Here's the run-down.

I never said I used a bonkers tactics in this save, I mentioned trying stupid crap at times and as long as my team talk was fine, I could still win matches.

 

My main tactics you can get by simply selecting the standard 4-2-1-3 Wide DM formation from the build in tactics list. Standard Fluid. I adjust the roles to suit my players, I only have 2-3 non standard global settings and goalkeeper distribute to full backs.

 

1st Season with Everton 2nd place, think I bought one bad left back  (2½ star, but I think mostly solid mentally) and loaned the wonderkid defender from one of the top teams.

2nd Season won league and Champions Cup. Got kicked out of the league cups quickly though.

3rd Season Won the pre-season league cup and euro cup match and think I've won every everything up to the first break. (The 2½ star back is starting to fail though, my left side is getting skinned a lot)

Edited by Miravlix

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Continued the study with the goals of teams in the half. In the mode, a detailed review is not bad. Spent a couple of very intense and really exciting matches. I would like a little more willpower wins.
But the full match brings .. Little goals. 0-0 and 1-0 mostly. Scores only one team. 100% of matches. Tighten under the regime a detailed review. At the moment, different look

Edited by nikkk

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Any reason why I'm not showing on the leaderboards in game?

Was working fine on FM17 but hasn't worked at all on 18.

Edited by craigcwwe

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Is it just me or is criticise conduct bugged atm. I have some players behaving casual in training so trying to use this feature but when i say something i get nothing back at all just blank. Praising conduct seems to work fine though.

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My team

12 shots

3 on target

54% possession

5 yellow cards to my team for 7 fouls.

 

Opposition

9 shots

2 on target

17 fouls and got 0 yellow cards.

 

We lost 0-1 (12th minute goal) mostly due to a tactics mistake on my part, that made us give away possession, without gaining any goal chances from it. When I changed the tactics after the goal, we "won" the game, but I had lost the players mentally so they couldn't hit the side of a barn if they where shooting from inside it with all doors closed. My end of team talk was oh crap, but you all got 7-8 or better score, so I can't complain.

 

The foul/yellow card just seems a bit eye catching, in a match where I got 7+ ratings on my players and the second oddity is that the game decided to say the opposition grab deserved win. I'm not seeing the deserved part of those stats, they had one lucky shot and we had the worst darn luck ever and was fouled off the pitch with the referee crucifying us.

 

EDIT! It is ODD, the stats is most likely reversed and it was actually my team that made 17 fouls, the match stats has the wrong team icon on the wrong side.

Edited by Miravlix

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1 hour ago, craigcwwe said:

Any reason why I'm not showing on the leaderboards in game?

Was working fine on FM17 but hasn't worked at all on 18.

If you started the game in the beta it will not show for whatever reason. I saw Neil mention somewhere else that the beta have 121 database changes and therefore will not add to the leaderboard.

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3 minutes ago, XaW said:

If you started the game in the beta it will not show for whatever reason. I saw Neil mention somewhere else that the beta have 121 database changes and therefore will not add to the leaderboard.

Ah. Damn. :(

Cheers anyway. :thup:

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2 hours ago, XaW said:

If you started the game in the beta it will not show for whatever reason. I saw Neil mention somewhere else that the beta have 121 database changes and therefore will not add to the leaderboard.

Might be a bit more to it.
I started a new save when the full game was released and i still don't exist on the leaderboards.

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3 minutes ago, roykela said:

Might be a bit more to it.
I started a new save when the full game was released and i still don't exist on the leaderboards.

Could be, I just saw it somewhere here on the forum. I looked at my game now and saw the 121 database changes, so I can confirm that part at least. Do you have any database changes?

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5 minutes ago, XaW said:

Could be, I just saw it somewhere here on the forum. I looked at my game now and saw the 121 database changes, so I can confirm that part at least. Do you have any database changes?

Not that i can see. Where do i see that?
I'm asking in case i'm looking in the wrong place. As i only play one save each year i might be ignorant as to where i see that information.

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Just now, roykela said:

Not that i can see. Where do i see that?
I'm asking in case i'm looking in the wrong place. As i only play one save each year i might be ignorant as to where i see that information.

FM drop-Down ---> game status

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1 minute ago, KUBI said:

FM drop-Down ---> game status

Cheers, KUBI :thup:

Yeah, i have 61 db changes. Don't know what they are though, but that must be it.

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I know what they are. I hovered the pointer over the changes and it told me the exact changes.
Question raised, answered and resolved :thup:

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Re: the earlier discussion about direct free kicks and the lack of goals, just saw my first one. Start of season 2 and Mata scored a beaut from just outside the area. So they might be rare, but they are possible.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't a player's statistics if he's sold and loaned back be combined in at least some contexts?  For example, I have a player who I sold and loaned back in January who had scored 22 league goals prior to the sale, and 5 after, but he's not the team record holder for league goals, though the previous record is 26.   I'd report it as a bug but I think it's just a design issue.

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Hi guys! My game is freezing before each game and I have to manually turn the computer off, by holding down the button, and everything is gone. I never had this problem on FM17, and I do not know what it may be. Have tried to restet the entire computer, reinstall the game and steam, but it continues. And it happens only to FM18. Do anyone else has this problems? It starts happend when I played online with my buddy 15th November!

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Guest El Payaso

@Svenc brilliant stuff again. Been noticing that too and the triangles "work" the same way in defense. Little bit of passing and ball shifting and it is broken. Alaves did it with ease against Barcelona in my save while Busquets was "marking" a player with 12 off the ball and this player ended up with ~120 pass attempts during the match. 

I think that many people have noticed that winning the ball back and by that creating logical breaks to score is difficult and it is much down to this. Also it allows every team to be able to sum huge amounts of passes as there basically never is a fear of losing the ball unless your players end up trying some mindless passes. 

At the moment defending relies far too much on tackling and bad passes than actually preventing things by positioning and tight marking and by that being able to prevent passes, pressure the receiver and forcing teams to make mistakes. 

Well, been reporting on these issues for years and nowadays don't even get that usual answer that they are looking to improve it. Probably they cannot. 

Luckily outside match days and transfer windows it's an excellent game in total and luckily you can at least shut down the first transfer window and wait for half a season before things get mad. Also the matches are tolerable if you play like one game in two days or something. But a long term save... Definitely no no to me. 

In general they have given us more tools to help us solve the problems with our style of plays but at the same time the AI possibly is the worst it has ever been. Before I saw people reaching top 4 with Athletic Bilbao in season one of the game but in this version people seem to be winning the league with ease and even with Crystal Palace. What else this is but arcade? 

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Well there's understandable ME limitations and as of AI there's downgrading/ regressing. :D Two key posts connected to this, straight from the horse's mouth.
 

Quote

 

Quote

 


Maybe that bit about Paul's experience from FML tells the story though -- just getting fed up, so making the AI simply role the dice when selecting their stuff, plus not punishing stuff that is entry level sports on any level too severe (not fully serious mind, can completely relate to the frustration of users always blaming game first). I've enquired prior to if it would be worthwile to actually report such selections in the bugs forums, but there was no reply, not even from the mods. A few of which I assume are far more in-depth than tactics than me, which is curious. It must be very hard to make AI approach anything like a holistic system. However gibberish shapes, that's tougher, as all it may need is some hard coding for certain formations (when AI visibly work off "prefered formations", which arguably is also a stumbling block -- after all, in football, formations are means to an end, not the end or a part of it itself, e.g. super top heavy formations may be more suited to direct styles, keeping possession is easier if players stay deeper, etc.). I have still FM 2015 on my HD too due to a long term save that gets some access every other full moon, and nope, doesn't happen. Really curious, some of this. Maybe there's a more logical reason behind, after all. And be it but a few selection bugs (which would then repeat all over, however).

Edited by Svenc

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it is really sad to see some problematic things from 2012 are still present in the game. Even worst is how little the ME has advanced in terms of representing a game of football in five years. I've stopped buying the game as of fm16 and, looking back, it appears that it was only downhill from there. However, as there is only a dozen of people on the forum that really took notice,  I imagine it was actually a good move from a business perspective. However sad for the game itself. 

Particularly sad is to see that in these few years nothing (that shows) was really done to prevent ridiculous positioning in defence and the lack of plausible offensive movement. To make it clear, there are all sorts of stupid things players on the highest level do, but a frequency with which it happens in the ME is killing the game for me.

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4 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

it is really sad to see some problematic things from 2012 are still present in the game. Even worst is how little the ME has advanced in terms of representing a game of football in five years. I've stopped buying the game as of fm16 and, looking back, it appears that it was only downhill from there. However, as there is only a dozen of people on the forum that really took notice,  I imagine it was actually a good move from a business perspective. However sad for the game itself. 

Particularly sad is to see that in these few years nothing (that shows) was really done to prevent ridiculous positioning in defence and the lack of plausible offensive movement. To make it clear, there are all sorts of stupid things players on the highest level do, but a frequency with which it happens in the ME is killing the game for me.

Not to mention financial chaos in game - some related to ridiculous income ammount - some related to bad HR judgment. After 2-3 seasons teams are super rich. Game has became too easy...

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12 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

I imagine it was actually a good move from a business perspective. However sad for the game itself. 

 


I'm still not convinced about this part. If you're cynical, in particular how the majority of fansites to this operate, what content they promote and what the discussions look like, it's easy to fall for this perception. If you factor in Miles more recent in interviews stating that part of the UI overhaul was primarily targeted to "less patient" players, it is even easier to fall for that perception. The counter points to this are some straight to be found in the current edition though. After all, it's not as if there wasn't some improvements made. Plus, going by some mods, the acknowledgement that the current builds (as the ones before) are reaching the end of their line, and that in behind the scenes there's something to be worked on that. My main concern isn't so much the ME at this point, imo some improvements have been made too. I'm just puzzled about the AI, as that's a complete turnaround from where it was coded five years ago. And it rubs off on performance, naturally, as well as making the game world "less believable", which has also been a long-term, consistent aim. I'm not here to moan. I'm just puzzled seeing a few of this, in particular due to legacy iterations which didn't engage in such, erm, AI handicaps, imo. On a player's end, fixing some of those takes a single click of the mouse...

Edited by Svenc

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Guest El Payaso

It's really sad that they apparently have jumped into the bandwagon of the whiners instead of demanding people to learn to play the game even after they have provided more tools that actually help people to solve problems and understand the game. With this kind of behavior they are both limiting the progress of the game and also losing customers like me as for me I don't see why I would like to play the game anymore as I know that I'm always going to overachieve and even with Athletic Bilbao I cannot get that semi realistic first season if I don't by purpose sabotage my own team. 

In business terms it might be a good idea to jump into board to satisfy the YouTubers with no idea of anything about the game or football (and then even use them for marketing) but with this approach SI are for sure not caring about customers like me at all. 

SI for me are forgetting here that basically all people who play FM are adults so they could just demand people to grow up and stop crying and also they forget the fact that people can develop while declining (in playing the game) is a thing that won't happen. 

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I’ve to say that i’m Giving up, and I think i’m Not alone. The worst ME in years, and nobody reassuring the users that they’re looking into it. The mods are silent, SI is silent, meanwhile the game is almost unplayable, tons of goal from set pieces and aimless long balls behind the defence...and the only thing they’re able to say is to upload the pkm in the bugs forum because it’s maybe a bug...are you joking? Have you tried to upload a pkm starting from scratch and as a pc non-expert? I’ve paid the game in full and in advance, i don’t want anymore to waste time in working for them as tester, I want a playable and clever game, we don’t pay for arcade, we’re not children, please SI take note!!!

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb jam jameson:

I’ve to say that i’m Giving up, and I think i’m Not alone. The worst ME in years, and nobody reassuring the users that they’re looking into it. The mods are silent, SI is silent, meanwhile the game is almost unplayable, tons of goal from set pieces and aimless long balls behind the defence...and the only thing they’re able to say is to upload the pkm in the bugs forum because it’s maybe a bug...are you joking? Have you tried to upload a pkm starting from scratch and as a pc non-expert? I’ve paid the game in full and in advance, i don’t want anymore to waste time in working for them as tester, I want a playable and clever game, we don’t pay for arcade, we’re not children, please SI take note!!!

To upload a pkm you just need to attach it to your post. You don't need to be a pc expert for this.

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3 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

it is really sad to see some problematic things from 2012 are still present in the game. Even worst is how little the ME has advanced in terms of representing a game of football in five years. I've stopped buying the game as of fm16 and, looking back, it appears that it was only downhill from there. However, as there is only a dozen of people on the forum that really took notice,  I imagine it was actually a good move from a business perspective. However sad for the game itself. 

Particularly sad is to see that in these few years nothing (that shows) was really done to prevent ridiculous positioning in defence and the lack of plausible offensive movement. To make it clear, there are all sorts of stupid things players on the highest level do, but a frequency with which it happens in the ME is killing the game for me.

Whilst FM12 was not perfect (no FM is or any other computer game come to that), as I have said in another post there are some things in FM12 that are better than any subsiquent release, the ME being one.  In my opinion the ME in FM12 is a better representation of a game of football than in any version since.

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1 minute ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

In my opinion the ME in FM12 is a better representation of a game of football than in any version since.

That's right, because in real life, players can simply ghost through other players as if they weren't there. 

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's right, because in real life, players can simply ghost through other players as if they weren't there. 

That's a tired old reply Dave and has been done to death, but if you take the ME as a whole it is still the most realistic representation of a football match than has been done since

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Guest El Payaso
37 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's right, because in real life, players can simply ghost through other players as if they weren't there. 

Never played with 3D but what is the big difference between ghosting through in FM 2012 to what happens in the current engine? At least on FM 2017 I saw multiple examples of ghosting through on YouTube and in beta when I watched goals on 3D with default settings this happened too couple of times. 

I wouldn't say in total that FM 2012 had the best representation of football as it was really pace oriented engine if I remember right. FM 2013 though was a great one along with 2009.

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56 minuti fa, KUBI ha scritto:

To upload a pkm you just need to attach it to your post. You don't need to be a pc expert for this.

On the basis of the instructions you provided me it’s not just attaching something to a post, i’m For sure a bad Pc user, but you are over simplifying and as always denying the issues of the game has the one effect of annoying the users

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb jam jameson:

On the basis of the instructions you provided me it’s not just attaching something to a post, i’m For sure a bad Pc user, but you are over simplifying and as always denying the issues of the game has the one effect of annoying the users

pkm files are very small and could be added to your post. Save games has to be uploaded to the ftp. 

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15 minuti fa, El Payaso ha scritto:

Never played with 3D but what is the big difference between ghosting through in FM 2012 to what happens in the current engine? At least on FM 2017 I saw multiple examples of ghosting through on YouTube and in beta when I watched goals on 3D with default settings this happened too couple of times. 

I agree on this. Recently I've loaded an old save from FM12 (which I considered my favourite edition of the FM era) and of course I did realize that UI and ME have progressed considerably in a few areas - near post corners were a nightmare; goal kick+ header from midfield + 1 vs 1 was also quite unrealistic. Though I was impressed with the variety of goals scored - diving headers! lobs! go round keeper! solo efforts! far post curled shot! - that I haven't seen in years. Admittedly it was too easy to score from long killer balls, but in my opinion not really because of the collision/ghosting problem but mostly because AI would often play ultra high defensive line (especially when they were losing). Now they're probably too deep, too often but it seems to me that the 'ghosting' is actually still there.

Edited by kandersson

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4 minuti fa, KUBI ha scritto:

pkm files are very small and could be added to your post. Save games has to be uploaded to the ftp. 

As i’ve Said, i’m Not e great pc user, but maybe you don’t see the point...it’s not that uploading is easy or difficult, the point is that after almost a month from the release we’re still here to talk about unfinished features, game breaking bugs and so on...this is the point...but even more annoying is that nobody tells anything about work in progress...

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Which game breaking bugs? There are some technical issues for specific systems, but I can't see any game breaking bugs for the majority of users, including me.

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7 minuti fa, KUBI ha scritto:

Which game breaking bugs? There are some technical issues for specific systems, but I can't see any game breaking bugs for the majority of users, including me.

I’m happy you’re happy with the game, for some reason I was sure of it even before you wrote it down...if you’re happy with the ME than just tell me that it’s down to my tactics, i’m Ready to stop complaining and turn to studying the game...

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Guest El Payaso
30 minutes ago, kandersson said:

I agree on this. Recently I've loaded an old save from FM12 (which I considered my favourite edition of the FM era) and of course I did realize that UI and ME have progressed considerably in a few areas - near post corners were a nightmare; goal kick+ header from midfield + 1 vs 1 was also quite unrealistic. Though I was impressed with the variety of goals scored - diving headers! lobs! go round keeper! solo efforts! far post curled shot! - that I haven't seen in years. Admittedly it was too easy to score from long killer balls, but in my opinion not really because of the collision/ghosting problem but mostly because AI would often play ultra high defensive line (especially when they were losing). Now they're probably too deep, too often but it seems to me that the 'ghosting' is actually still there.

Yes defenders not positioning according to strikers' position is a major issue in the engine and has been ever since 2015. Currently strikers play like play makers but because they are higher up the pitch they are creating crazy amounts of goals and chances. 50-70 pass attempts a game should be just about ok for AP(S) in midfield but not for strikers. And 80-90% of these completed is bound to be super effective. 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb jam jameson:

I’m happy you’re happy with the game, for some reason I was sure of it even before you wrote it down...if you’re happy with the ME than just tell me that it’s down to my tactics, i’m Ready to stop complaining and turn to studying the game...

Improvements are only possible if people deliver bug reports, pkms and save games. That's what I'm doing if I spot an issue in my save game. This game can be played very different. I don't care much about ME details as long as the game generates realistic results.

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59 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

Never played with 3D but what is the big difference between ghosting through in FM 2012 to what happens in the current engine? At least on FM 2017 I saw multiple examples of ghosting through on YouTube and in beta when I watched goals on 3D with default settings this happened too couple of times. 

I wouldn't say in total that FM 2012 had the best representation of football as it was really pace oriented engine if I remember right. FM 2013 though was a great one along with 2009.

I personally don't think there is anything especially OP in FM12, I didn't buy FM13 so can't comment, although I believe it was a "polished" FM12

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