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Forged In Steel - The Sheffield United Project

Cleon

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Cleon

Cleon

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7 hours ago, Gegenklaus said:

Awesome, man, thanks a lot!

Np :)

Had a lot of people like the bit in today's update (in post 3) about the PPM one-two's and how they never considered it for the DLF before.

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Aquaplex

Aquaplex

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Cleon, do you make changes with this tactic ingame?  I would like to try to replicate this setup with a team like Arsenal.  I tried this with Arsenal in FM17 (without making any changes during games) and i had really bad results.  Thanks.

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jc577

jc577

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@Cleon The piece on the deep-lying forward was one of the best i’ve read in a while; relatively simple but very well explained & easy to read/understand your thought processes.

P.S. Quick question: what camera angle do you use?

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Cleon

Cleon

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10 hours ago, Aquaplex said:

Cleon, do you make changes with this tactic ingame?  I would like to try to replicate this setup with a team like Arsenal.  I tried this with Arsenal in FM17 (without making any changes during games) and i had really bad results.  Thanks.

If something is going wrong then I'll try and combat that by making slight changes. You have to remember this set up is designed for a specific team and set of players, so copying it likely won't work. What you should do is use the ideas in the thread to make your own strategy that works for you. As for you trying it on FM17 and not making any changes during the game and having bad results, well that's expected isn't it? If something isn't working it's not suddenly going to work if you don't change anything. If it's a 352 you want to use then check out this article I did as its much more in depth and focuses on a lot of things;

https://teaandbusquets.com/3-5-2-chronicles

 

9 hours ago, blackdevil said:

Another fantastic set of articles @Cleon the thing I like most is the way you articulate and present your ideas.  It's something I think I'd have trouble with myself.  In addition is interesting to see another persons approach to playing FM which these days is quite different to my own.

Thanks :)

8 hours ago, jc577 said:

@Cleon The piece on the deep-lying forward was one of the best i’ve read in a while; relatively simple but very well explained & easy to read/understand your thought processes.

P.S. Quick question: what camera angle do you use?

Data Analyst. However if I'm looking for specific issues and focusing on them, then I'll use many different camera angles to get different looks at the incidents so I can truly understand what is wrong. See events from many different angles is very useful as it sometimes shows things you might miss on other angles.

2 hours ago, Pablo Sanchez said:

Hey Cleon

 

Quick one.

 

Have you thought of using play offside trap with the high line and press?

What would be the pro's and con's?

I don't really have an intelligent enough backline to play the offside safely I don't believe, so that's the main reason I don't use. I have decent defenders but I don't have faith in them stepping up and all doing the right thing at the same time.

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Cleon

Cleon

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7 minutes ago, Caddick7 said:

@Cleon - Great work once again! What's the best way to be notified of when you release the next stages of your project? I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to this forum! 

Either follow this thread, there is a 'follow' option at the very top. Or go to my website, enter your email and join the other 17k subscribers who get notified by email :)

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baggi0

baggi0

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Again a very good read.

The personality of Brooks changed from Fairly ambitious to balanced. At first this looks a bad (...) thing, but I can't imagine his Ambition attribute dropt. 

Is this change in personality a result of his other hidden attributes which rose, or through tutoring?

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Cleon

Cleon

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1 minute ago, baggi0 said:

Again a very good read.

The personality of Brooks changed from Fairly ambitious to balanced. At first this looks a bad (...) thing, but I can't imagine his Ambition attribute dropt. 

Is this change in personality a result of his other hidden attributes which rose, or through tutoring?

A great spot. It's because of hidden attributes changing I presume and the squad personality type. The squads overall personality type is determined. However due to some changes to personality in FM17 you can now have players with balanced personality who are actually professional or ambitious. Due to how the numbers were tweaked. So yeah it's a combination of a few things but he is still ambitious. 

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Cleon

Cleon

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Just now, FMWolf said:

@Cleon I noticed that too and I'm just curious about this: would he have developed more than he has if he had a "better" personality?

His personality hasn't really changed only the description. If anything it's got slightly better and that's why the description has changed but I think it will change again soon now he's capped his PA it seems.

He's capped out his PA in 3 seasons, so not sure how he could have developed more?

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Cleon

Cleon

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3 minutes ago, FMWolf said:

Hum, okey. So what would have been the difference if he had a Resolute/Professional personality?

He might have seen a slight increase he might not have. 3 years isn't a good timescale really as it doesn't give enough room to see any vast difference. However if he had those personality types he'd have probably developed as a similar rate give or take. As it's a combination of everything that matters. So he'd need professionalism, determination, ambition, game time, stay injury free and to be playing well.

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sporadicsmiles

sporadicsmiles

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On 11/8/2017 at 11:49, Cleon said:

Alongside this I also like to manually scout clubs and this can be very time-consuming. For example, in my current save I’ve spent 8 hour manually scouting many clubs looking for bargains who I might bring into the club to strengthen certain areas.

I am interested on exactly how you go about this? You simply use your views to identify potentially interesting players, and then use scouting to get full knowledge of the attributes? I do something similar to this, but usually I do not spend a lot of time looking around other teams, I tend to just trawl carefully my scout reports.

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Cleon

Cleon

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5 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

I am interested on exactly how you go about this? You simply use your views to identify potentially interesting players, and then use scouting to get full knowledge of the attributes? I do something similar to this, but usually I do not spend a lot of time looking around other teams, I tend to just trawl carefully my scout reports.

Pretty much yeah. I start by going through all the clubs in the active leagues I have loaded. 

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sporadicsmiles

sporadicsmiles

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12 hours ago, Cleon said:

Pretty much yeah. I start by going through all the clubs in the active leagues I have loaded. 

That is some serious dedication! As always, I enjoy reading your posts, each and every time I learn something new that I can try to incorporate to make myself better. Thanks for the effort and the sharing!

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davzuki

davzuki

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Playing last year's, I definitely noticed a difference when an injury crisis forced me to play a more creative type as my AF. It was my impression that he was involved in the build-up more and he got more than a few assists, the difference was such that he became my first choice.

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FMunderachiever

FMunderachiever

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No disrespect or offense but is there any point reading these career stories?

Youre really good at the game. So youll sign some unheard of nobodies that obviously turn out good, youll then make a tactic that makes sheff utd way better than theyll ever be realistically because you would smash the game with any team.

Youll get promoted. End up in champions league. Smash that as well. Probably beat Barcelona or something daft.

Just dont see the point. Id be more interested to see a club you cant turn around like happens in real life most of the time.

Thats not taking away from your achievements but i know already youll win everything eventually because youre good at a computer game. 

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Fosse

Fosse

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20 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

No disrespect or offense but is there any point reading these career stories?

Youre really good at the game. So youll sign some unheard of nobodies that obviously turn out good, youll then make a tactic that makes sheff utd way better than theyll ever be realistically because you would smash the game with any team.

Youll get promoted. End up in champions league. Smash that as well. Probably beat Barcelona or something daft.

Just dont see the point. Id be more interested to see a club you cant turn around like happens in real life most of the time.

Thats not taking away from your achievements but i know already youll win everything eventually because youre good at a computer game. 

This is a unfairly dismissive, If it was a career update it'd be in that part of the forum - it's more about how different concepts and ideas can be applied to a team to help others rather than showing off that he's good at the game.

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FMunderachiever

FMunderachiever

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21 minutes ago, Fosse said:

This is a unfairly dismissive, If it was a career update it'd be in that part of the forum - it's more about how different concepts and ideas can be applied to a team to help others rather than showing off that he's good at the game.

Every concept will work though basically. That would be the same for any team.

Fair play if youre winning champions leagues youre doing something right. But before the series started that was obviously going to happen anyway

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Fosse

Fosse

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1 minute ago, FMunderachiever said:

Every concept will work though basically. That would be the same for any team.

Fair play if youre winning champions leagues youre doing something right. But before the series started that was obviously going to happen anyway

In a different thread Cleon has posted about playing on attacking vs standard showing the pitfalls of that and how it isn't as effective for that particular approach - it's almost inevitable he is successful because he tweaks and changes things so his teams are better and tries to show others how and why these changes work. It's not like he picks a dysfunctional system and magically wins the CL with Hartlepool, he creates a tactic with an idea and way of playing and if it's not exactly what he's trying to create he'll change it. Cleon's posted a lot of analysis over the years about tweaking his system so it's not a given it's immediately fruitful.

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FMunderachiever

FMunderachiever

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4 minutes ago, Fosse said:

In a different thread Cleon has posted about playing on attacking vs standard showing the pitfalls of that and how it isn't as effective for that particular approach - it's almost inevitable he is successful because he tweaks and changes things so his teams are better and tries to show others how and why these changes work. It's not like he picks a dysfunctional system and magically wins the CL with Hartlepool, he creates a tactic with an idea and way of playing and if it's not exactly what he's trying to create he'll change it. Cleon's posted a lot of analysis over the years about tweaking his system so it's not a given it's immediately fruitful.

But it will be fruitful eventually.

Every single team no matter how **** will eventually win stuff they have no right to.

Thats why i dont see the point. No matter the job the game will get beaten because everything has been analysed to the extent the AI will be beaten with whoever.

Its kind of rubbish if youre going to succeed in every job as inevitable. A realistic and interesting story would have someone falling flat on their face sometimes, getting sacked, restoring reputation, jobs that are too big for them, good players, absolutely duff players etc.

I couldnt win a champions league with sheff utd. I dont have time i usually just manage big teams with good players, napoli and feyenoord my two saves where ive won everything.

 

But if i started a save as sheff utd KNOWING id win the champions league from the start id be bored before id begun.

 

 

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Fosse

Fosse

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Just now, FMunderachiever said:

But it will be fruitful eventually.

Every single team no matter how **** will eventually win stuff they have no right to.

Thats why i dont see the point. No matter the job the game will get beaten because everything has been analysed to the extent the AI will be beaten with whoever.

Its kind of rubbish if youre going to succeed in every job as inevitable. A realistic and interesting story would have someone falling flat on their face sometimes, getting sacked, restoring reputation, jobs that are too big for them, good players, absolutely duff players etc.

I couldnt win a champions league with sheff utd. I dont have time i usually just manage big teams with good players, napoli and feyenoord my two saves where ive won everything.

 

But if i started a save as sheff utd KNOWING id win the champions league from the start id be bored before id begun.

 

 

I don't want come across as a mouthpiece for Cleon (he probably doesn't want me to either :D) but he doesn't really enjoy winning everything because he's admitted he finds it easy but he really likes developing players and training them up. He posted that he was stuck with Sheffield FC once IIRC because they didn't have any money and he'd overachieved already so it's not like he can categorically guarantee success. I do agree I'd probably find it boring too if I was that great at the game but you can't dictate how others want to play the game and there's more than enough ways to make it more challenging 

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FMunderachiever

FMunderachiever

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4 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I would rather be excellent at a game than **** put it that way :D

I still think being that good at the game would be enjoyable as you have player development which is a very rewarding part of the game

Oh i know of course. Just in story terms what makes a story are massive highs and lows.

 

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Cleon

Cleon

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6 hours ago, Sparky_07 said:

Are you going to go in detail about any player instructions you use?

I don't use any.

5 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

No disrespect or offense but is there any point reading these career stories?

Youre really good at the game. So youll sign some unheard of nobodies that obviously turn out good, youll then make a tactic that makes sheff utd way better than theyll ever be realistically because you would smash the game with any team.

Youll get promoted. End up in champions league. Smash that as well. Probably beat Barcelona or something daft.

Just dont see the point. Id be more interested to see a club you cant turn around like happens in real life most of the time.

Thats not taking away from your achievements but i know already youll win everything eventually because youre good at a computer game. 

It's not a story or a career thread? It's showing how certain concepts work, how I use players different for positions to give a different take on them and player development. None of it it about results or my success and I'll not be posting about that side of things at all.

3 hours ago, FMunderachiever said:

Oh i know of course. Just in story terms what makes a story are massive highs and lows.

 

It's not a story and no idea what gives you that impression, you've clearly not read the thread. If you don't see the point then fair enough just stay out of it. I don't need to hear what you think it means absolutely nothing to me, I don't care for what you think about how easy I might find the game or not. So rather than fill the thread with your opinion constantly just stay out of it. 

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mkkadi

mkkadi

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I have 2 questions for you

1- Is comes deep to get ball PPM beneficial for DLF?

2- What happens you use WB(s) instead of CWB(a)? I think with the PIs selected with CWB(a), he sometimes forced to dribble or  maybe rushed. But WB(s) is different because only 1 PI selected for this role. Can you say something what is your logic behind the idea using CWB(a)? 

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Cleon

Cleon

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4 minutes ago, mkkadi said:

I have 2 questions for you

1- Is comes deep to get ball PPM beneficial for DLF?

2- What happens you use WB(s) instead of CWB(a)? I think with the PIs selected with CWB(a), he sometimes forced to dribble or  maybe rushed. But WB(s) is different because only 1 PI selected for this role. Can you say something what is your logic behind the idea using CWB(a)? 

1 - Depending on how you play and how deep you want him to come then yeah it can be. PPM's are different for every person though, it all depends on how you play. PPM's enhance that style you are going for.

2 - The CWB is more aggressive and I wanted the most aggressive option I could have.

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Cleon

Cleon

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10 minutes ago, Southern Buddie said:

Cleon, I was just wondering about your centre backs. How do you select which centre back plays in which position? For instance are you looking for a different type of player for the outside centre back, than you are for the player in the centre of the back three?

The centre one is normally the more physical one. The outer ones, I like ones who can play with the ball at their feet.

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Cleon

Cleon

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12 minutes ago, Sparky_07 said:

I thought you might of used 'shoot less often' for your forwards, as you wanted them to not waste chances.

Nah, they're naturally not wasteful because of the positions they take up and the areas they attack during games :)

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mkkadi

mkkadi

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This topic is not like your 4231 topic. But I want to ask you about my 352 tactic. First matches showed me that as a result of my squad's strenght (not the strongest), my opponents sit deep so I can not crack them easily.  I expected that before making this tactic so I used two DMC for late support especially SV(a) role. My wingbacks will be responsible to create width. My MC also connect my midfield with forward. DLF creates chances for AF and AF is the main goalscorer for me. I also expect my DLF, SV and MC to score. 

After a few games in the game, I see that my players rush the game. They play direct balls to AF or DLF. As a result my two strikers try to score alone. Generally possession is around %40-%45.  To prevent this I use play out of defence TI. I want my DMCs and MC to pass the ball between them and bring ball to forward. But they are very close on the field so I can not see this. Maybe changing MC(s) to MC(a) can be an option. Do you anything odd or any big problem with my tactic? Im not asking you to which roles should I use, I just want to know what I am missing here?

vJDMP6.png

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Cleon

Cleon

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1 hour ago, BamBamBam said:

You don't seem to have many team instructions. 

Why is that an issue? People use TI's without actually knowing what they do. 

55 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

How are the teams results going in this save?

Very good. I've not had the time to write an update yet though.

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