3 at the back

[BadAss88]

Is it reasonably possible in the new FM18 to play with 3 defenders at the back for a consistent time?

Because in FM17 the 3 at the back don't defend very well against wingers, especially when there pacey on the counter-attack. Most of the time, one is lured to the outside by the winger, the central one is covering him so he moving to the side as well without covering any runners or other forwards and my 3rd centrale defender is just caught out in no-mensland with someone in his back scoring..My wingers in the MC-strata has support duty but they won't track back their wingers.

Has anyone have any solutions for this or is it better handled in FM18?

EDIT: Or is switching to o 4 at the back system the only resolution? Or use my wingers as CWBs?

[Cleon]

I keep seeing people say can you play 3 at the back consistently this version. You've always been able to play 3 at the back. Even on FM17 lots of people (myself included) mainly used three at he back systems for the whole duration of FM17. You're not forced to play 4 at the back at all.

[baddragon62]

I second that motion Cleon - Its a lot to do with how you cover your flanks. Playing three at the back doesn't mean you have 7 to attack with!

[Svenc]

Any formation any AI performs with can't be all that faulty.

Now if your back three consisted of a LB, single CB, RB, and don't laugh, I've seen this -- based on previous not only made that your side rather vulnerable  every time one of your backs surged forward in possession. It would also make opposition forwards sit in the channels visibly opening up when they are back in position again, which always teneded to be as wide as the hips of Kim Kardashian. But you had noted that nobody plays like that in football, nor any AI in-game, right?

[ChrisBones1990]

i used a 3 at the back for alot of 17 and iv used it for nearly all of 18 to sucess

[NabsKebabs]

If you are playing a 3 at the back with wingers in the midfield strata, ofcourse naturally you are going to be vulnerable down the flanks.

Most team play with wingbacks IRL like Chelsea and Arsenal. So they make more of a back 5 in defence. 

[BadAss88]

5 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

If you are playing a 3 at the back with wingers in the midfield strata, ofcourse naturally you are going to be vulnerable down the flanks.

Most team play with wingbacks IRL like Chelsea and Arsenal. So they make more of a back 5 in defence. 

Is there a possibilty then to use 3 at the back and still use wingers in the midfield strata without being vulnerable down the flanks? Or say at least be less vulnerable?

Or is it only possible to play the wingers in the AM-strata and support them with wingbacks? Because then I loose the advantage of having more numbers in the midfield-strata? But this can be compensated by making my wingbacks, inverted wingbacks? But neither less I loose my diamond in the middle which i wanted to create in the first place..

[NabsKebabs]

3 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:

Is there a possibilty then to use 3 at the back and still use wingers in the midfield strata without being vulnerable down the flanks? Or say at least be less vulnerable?

Or is it only possible to play the wingers in the AM-strata and support them with wingbacks? Because then I loose the advantage of having more numbers in the midfield-strata? But this can be compensated by making my wingbacks, inverted wingbacks? But neither less I loose my diamond in the middle which i wanted to create in the first place..

I haven't really tried such a shape before in FM.

However, judging from this, it should be possible to have success with a flat 3 defence.

 

[BadAss88]

It's the topic where I got my ideas off, but I found it very vulnerable against wingers so was hoping for any solutions from you guys here!

[mhaffy]

In FM17 one of the issues people flagged about 3 Central Defender formations was that you had to position Wing Backs in the Wing Back position to get the central defenders to "fan out to flanks" - using wing back role in Full back position prevented centre backs doing this.

Has this been fixed in FM18?

[BadAss88]

1 minute ago, mhaffy said:

In FM17 one of the issues people flagged about 3 Central Defender formations was that you had to position Wing Backs in the Wing Back position to get the central defenders to "fan out to flanks" - using wing back role in Full back position prevented centre backs doing this.

Has this been fixed in FM18?

This is not the problem in FM17, the problem you describing is when playing with a Half Back and the 2 central defenders won't fan out to the flanks

[jakem016]

It's not an error. Of course you're going to be vulnerable on the wings if you play 3 cbs with wingers in the midfield strata.  That doesn't mean you can't create a successful tactic with this shape, but all shapes have weaknesses and this is the weakness of the shape you want to play with.  

Edit: Sorry I read two posts and they fused together so ignore this.  

[BadAss88]

2 minutes ago, jakem016 said:

It's not an error. Of course you're going to be vulnerable on the wings if you play 3 cbs with wingers in the midfield strata.  That doesn't mean you can't create a successful tactic with this shape, but all shapes have weaknesses and this is the weakness of the shape you want to play with.  

I understand, but is there a way to compensate a bit for this weakness..and despite being vulnerable for attacks from the wings, my central defenders should do a better job if you see the play, they have no eye for any runners or forwards what so ever..and I'm talking about the best defenders in the game here so attributes isn't the problem.

[NabsKebabs]

I will try playing a flat 3 and update how it goes.

Infact, I'm actually considering playing with my wide men in the AML/AMR strata to really closely replicate the Cruyff system. My interpretation is a 3-1-2-3-1.

[jakem016]

6 minutes ago, BadAss88 said:

I understand, but is there a way to compensate a bit for this weakness..and despite being vulnerable for attacks from the wings, my central defenders should do a better job if you see the play, they have no eye for any runners or forwards what so ever..and I'm talking about the best defenders in the game here so attributes isn't the problem.

There probably is because people have done it successfully, but I can't imagine a situation where you're not vulnerable down the flanks.  I would imagine that for this to work you would have to play a very high defensive line unless there is a way to make a defensive winger operate like a wing back when not pressing.  I haven't played with that shape in years but I think it's gonna be a lot easier to make a wing back operate like a winger when attacking then make a wide midfielder defend like a wb and properly cover the flanks.  I mean, when I face a 3 atb system with wing backs, then I usually try to target the flanks because that's usually where it's most vulnerable.

EDIT: Maybe you could also play 2 dms or 2 defensive minded cms?  

 

[BadAss88]

I think dropping my wingers to DM-strata is the best solution for my problem..

Which brings me to another point, player selection, do I choose wingbacks or do I choose wingers for this position? And what with great wingers who can't play the position?

[Meraklija Vujevic]

I play with 3 players at back and i won Premiership and Fa cup in first season with Bournemouth.

 

You need to be capable to create proper tactic then you will not have so many problems.

[roggiotis]

i always play with 3 DCs , 2 in WB position, and 2 MCs,

then depending from the players available i play AMR-ST-AML or AMC and 2 STs

[luka_zg]

45 minutes ago, roggiotis said:

i always play with 3 DCs , 2 in WB position, and 2 MCs,

then depending from the players available i play AMR-ST-AML or AMC and 2 STs

How do you set up your wingbacks and 2 MC's? 

[tajj7]

On 11/8/2017 at 14:58, BadAss88 said:

It's the topic where I got my ideas off, but I found it very vulnerable against wingers so was hoping for any solutions from you guys here!

I used that tactic with Southampton and finished 6th first season so I think you can be successful with it, I have since changed to a 4-4-1-1 version of it using the same principles as I felt more solid using this but I think it really depends on your players.

That 3-5-1-1 works very well at dominating lesser teams, if you build a very good top level team then it will be successful but you might have to be a bit more flexible on the journey there if you are building that good team, especially in very competitive leagues like the PL and where teams often favour very attacking players in the AML and AMR slots. 

[Codename47]

3 hours ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

i won Premiership and Fa cup in first season with Bournemouth.

 

 

I don't want to appear cynical (and cast aspersions to anyone), but this is your first post and claim to have won the EPL and FA Cup with Bournemouth in your first season, and this is without cheating!?  I see these claims alot.  I have been playing FM since 1995 and although I will never claim to be the best manager ever, I am very successful, tactical nous and know what I am doing with alot of experience, yet to win the EPL/FA Cup 1st season with the likes of Bournemouth (and Swansea I saw in another post), I do find it hard to believe, considering how 'complex' this game is now of course!  You must be a miracle worker who knows this game/ME inside out with your first post.

[Ciderarmy]

With playing 3 at the back what instructions do people give there 3 cb 

I was thinking cb-stopper cb-cover cb-stopper or is it better to have all 3 on cb defend 

[jc577]

3 hours ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

I play with 3 players at back and i won Premiership and Fa cup in first season with Bournemouth.

 

You need to be capable to create proper tactic then you will not have so many problems.

This seems like a brag post more than anything.. what actual advice have you given the OP apart from suggesting he creates a ‘proper tactic’?

[Blinklys]

11 minutes ago, Codename47 said:

I don't want to appear cynical (and cast aspersions to anyone), but this is your first post and claim to have won the EPL and FA Cup with Bournemouth in your first season, and this is without cheating!?  I see these claims alot.  I have been playing FM since 1995 and although I will never claim to be the best manager ever, I am very successful, tactical nous and know what I am doing with alot of experience, yet to win the EPL/FA Cup 1st season with the likes of Bournemouth (and Swansea I saw in another post), I do find it hard to believe, considering how 'complex' this game is now of course!  You must be a miracle worker who knows this game/ME inside out with your first post.

I was thinking the same thing. Quite an accomplishment...

[roggiotis]

1 hour ago, luka_ said:

How do you set up your wingbacks and 2 MC's? 

IWB(A)

if i play AMC-2STs i use a support + defend (usually B2B + MC(D) or BWM(D)

if i play AMR/L +ST  i use 2 Mezzalas

[Meraklija Vujevic]

Just now, jc577 said:

This seems like a brag post more than anything.. what actual advice have you given the OP apart from suggesting he creates a ‘proper tactic’?

Lol bunch of amaters.

 

Check my topics on fm base forum and my you tube chanel.

My tactics last year downloaded more then 70k.

 

Regarding this forum i just joined to se some interesting topics mostly regarding feedback how to improve game.

 

So many bad players around this is shame.

[jc577]

1 hour ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

Lol bunch of amaters.

 

Check my topics on fm base forum and my you tube chanel.

My tactics last year downloaded more then 70k.

 

Regarding this forum i just joined to se some interesting topics mostly regarding feedback how to improve game.

 

So many bad players around this is shame.

Firstly, this isn't the forum if you want to insult people. Secondly, you sound like you're bragging again.. kind of proving my point. I never questioned your football manager abilities, but rather than give the OP constructive advice you said 'I won the league and FA cup with Bournemouth', how is that going to help him?

[Jessan]

2 hours ago, roggiotis said:

IWB(A)

if i play AMC-2STs i use a support + defend (usually B2B + MC(D) or BWM(D)

if i play AMR/L +ST  i use 2 Mezzalas

Do you use IWBs when using the AMC+2ST setup?  I always thought that if there are no players further up on the wings that inverted wingbacks just play as normal wingbacks, am I wrong on that?

[roggiotis]

1)yes i use IWB(A) , 

2)you are not wrong 

[Meraklija Vujevic]

tactic is 3 4 1 2 where poacher is main atacking treat.

Tactic name is Pirate poacher.

last year i i won Premiership with Sunderland with similar aproach.

entire carrier is on my you tube chanel so you can see how properly play this game.

 

Playing atacking fluid with 3 asimetric players in mid.

I have half back carilo and shadow striker.

Poacher and dlf up front.

Defense is key for this type of formation.

 

Your back 3 need better adjustment.

Your wide players also.

 

Try to use cwb atack on wide.

Setup all 3 central defenders with defend role.

 

Give player instruction to mid central defender to mark tighter.

 

If this can help you use it

[Pablo Sanchez]

Seen a guy playing

 

2 CBS

 

Then 5 across the Defensive midfield level

 

Then 3 in the AM level. worked a treat

[tajj7]

23 hours ago, Ciderarmy said:

With playing 3 at the back what instructions do people give there 3 cb 

I was thinking cb-stopper cb-cover cb-stopper or is it better to have all 3 on cb defend 

I just played flat 3 on defend. 

I think it matters more how good your defenders are.  

[BadAss88]

So I'm going for a 3 at the back system in FM18 with Wolves (they have the perfect squad for it). This will be my set-up to start with:

I'm gonna start off with asking for help for mentality, team shape and team instructions because I'm struggling most of the time with getting this right. So I hope someone can put me on my way if I explain what football style I'm aiming for and which mentality, shape and instructions compliment this style.

 

First of all, I don't like hoof bals to the front so play out of defence is almost a no-brainer.

I like fast-paced passing, but I also want to keep possession (but not for possession's sake) so not sure what to choose to create this style of passing (is it even possible?).

I want through balls and crosses to score from, I'm hoping my DLP, IF's and WB's can deliver them.

And I don't like wasting chances with long shots when there are better passing/crossing options.

I always tend to high press with a high block, but I'm not sure it's complimenting my style, I'm thinking more space could be positive for the football I'm after, although I like agressive pressing.

I see my F9 as the main scorer together with my IF's. The main assists should come from my IF's, WB's and hopefully DLP (probably more pre-assists). 

 

Furthermore I have a couple of roles which I'm not certain off if it's the best choice.

SK or GK? What's the difference? Anyone can tell me that?

The central defender should he be stopper or cover? I'd like him to bring the ball from the back to the midfield (that PPM should work wonders I guess?) but not sure what would suit him best cover or stopper?

The midfield duo, I think I need two conservative roles to balance out the tactic, with one being the playmaker who links everything together (hopefully) and one no-nonsense ball winning midfielder. Am I correct in my thinking? Do I pick the right roles/duties? Or are there more suited roles for what I want? RPM(s)? CM(d)? BBM(s)? DLP(d)? AP(s)?

 

I really hope someone can answer (a couple) of my questions and get me on my way, expecially for mentality, shape and TI's to get my preferred style of play!

Cheers! (sorry for the long text)

[Coyh]

On 11/15/2017 at 14:56, jc577 said:

This seems like a brag post more than anything.. what actual advice have you given the OP apart from suggesting he creates a ‘proper tactic’?

i am going to ask for his autograph, so go easy on him.

[Coyh]

I have been playing this formation, i started with wingers but got done to many times on the wings so i dropped them to wb and things started going a lot better. i also have a few issues with the outside defenders trying to much and getting caught with the ball so i dropped them to dcb and that has stopped, they do punt it sometimes but that has lead to goals for not against so i can live with that they are almost like toned down bpd. depending on the game i will push the def line right up and the closing down to get in the other teams face but if i am not winning after 20mins i will then drop these back to normal and keep watching. depending on what i see is what way i go if we are running into dead ends i will drop the dribble more if we are squandering shots i put on wbib if the other team starts to come out more or there looks like more gaps to work in i will put pass into space on. if we get a goal or two up i might step up to control and see how we cope, i might be seeing things but as the season goes on i swear the back 3 are becoming tighter together than they were at the start??? i have scored the most and let the fewest in so things are looking good so far just need the injuries to stop.

[Rashidi]

That 3 at the back I am seeing, leaves your flanks vulnerable, u have two wingbacks on attack duty, the left flank may be ok with the aggression of the BWM but not the right flank, when you changed it to stopper/cover/stopper you may get a bit more protection, here though the DLP is very important. He needs to be able to cover a fair bit of ground consistently. You could when the going gets tough just change the wb to s or defend duty. It looks very similar to one of my 343s. Its solid. You may want to think of shape sometimes. If you players are decent you could drop it to flexible when you get worried about balls over the top which could happen with a fluid system.

 

[Coyh]

yeah i drop the shape as well i forgot to add that in my other post.

[Khazard]

I'm top of the league in champ atm on my Sheffield united save playing 5-3-2 WB in the first season with league one level players...using standard mentality, fluid, fairly narrow, mixed passing, play out from the back, fairly deep defensive line, close down much more, tackle harder, exploit the centre, stop GK playing short, lower tempo, work the ball into the box, I add be disciplined away from home, leave it as is at home or if I need a goal I set it to be expressive, if it's raining or snowing I tell my players to dribble more, pass more direct as shorter passing is nerfed in these conditions, use early crosses and floating crosses, I also generally use my TM(s) in these alongside a AF or Trequartista so the ball is played in the air a little more

Just beat Bolton 6-0 on Jan 1st it's going really well so far I'm 12 points clear of second place..

Due to my midfielders being very one dimensional I don't have the roles that I would like, also suffer from some slow defenders which is why my backline is slightly deeper.. line up like this generally:

                             GK(d)

                 CD(s)  BPD(c)  CD(s)

        WB(s)                                 WB(s)

                 AP(a)  DLP(d)  BWM(s)

 

                         T(a)      AF(a)

I'd rather not use playmakers or only have one normally.

I Also switch trequartista out for DLF(s) or TM(s) depending on injury but I'm not a fan of TM..

Gk distributes to defense, AP is told to get further forward and wingbacks run wide and stay wide.

Also check all my players and cover their weaknesses like dribble less if they have less than 10 dribbling, set all defenders to shoot less and dribble less and set all my midfield to shoot less.

[BadAss88]

Do I need to start another topic to get answers to my questions? Or does everybody just gonna hijack my topic?

EDIT: I don't mind a discussion, but the reply's or no good to the questions I have..

[Khazard]

4 hours ago, BadAss88 said:

Do I need to start another topic to get answers to my questions? Or does everybody just gonna hijack my topic?

EDIT: I don't mind a discussion, but the reply's or no good to the questions I have..

They were answered you can see it works?