"Coming out" feature

[nico_france]

Hi guys

Read at the moment in a French generalist newspaper that FM 18 will now have a feature where some players of your team can announce that they are gay

They quoted Miles, who was saying that this feature is important to break the taboo of homophobia in football

Kind of surprised tbh

Thougths ?

Edit: will be applied to regens only

[XaW]

Sure, why not. Not sure what it will add to the gameplay, but by all means if it helps break the taboo then I'm all for it.

[GC28]

I can see this point of view, I would say though it's not very realistic given the current culture within football.

[AntR0we]

For FM17 they did more research into Brexit that the British government, so it's not surprising that they're waaaay ahead of FIFA on equality.

Hopefully the regens will only 'come out' after 2022, so that they don't have to go to the homophobic countries that FIFA gifted the World Cup to.

[Jibby123]

If it helps even an inch towards making it a non-issue then where's the harm? Gay's can't play football that well or there's a huge homophobia problem in football in real life. We all know which of the 2 is the reality.

The way they incorporated a make believe future on Brexit was kind of different and was crap imvho as it affected my gameplay. Steam workshop will the same opt out as it did for FM17, but I kind of like the coming out feature. No harm done to gameplay, but raising awareness of what is, obviously, a real and live issue in football.

[jckstevens]

It's not nice to say, but 'coming out' will never be accepted or the norm in football. The sport is ingrained in the 'working class' mentality, after all thats where its roots are. The whole 'working class' thing isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there is in-build homophobia/racism which has festered in the sport and culture for so long. But big up SI for putting it in, its a gimmick but fair play.

[CFuller]

Adding openly gay newgens to FM is not a gimmick. It’s a bit like newgens growing facial hair for Movember; it’s a neat little feature designed to raise awareness for a cause that is obviously quite important to SI. Fair play to them, I say.

It’s also a feature that I actually hope will be removed some time in the future, when homosexuality is no longer as much of a taboo in football as it is now, and when a sportsman coming out as LGBT isn’t considered headline news.

1 hour ago, AntR0we said:

Hopefully the regens will only 'come out' after 2022, so that they don't have to go to the homophobic countries that FIFA gifted the World Cup to.

I’m sure Miles said somewhere that newgens would not ‘come out’ in nations where homosexuality is still illegal or generally frowned upon.

[Mintah]

[Sid1984]

Absolutely stupid if this is true. Footballers will not come out, not in the near future anyway. Think of how many who have come out in the past.

I hope there will be a way to disable this feature.

[themadsheep2001]

I like it. And if it pushes equality in football just one inch, and makes the homophobes in football (and any on here) uncomfortable, then doubly good 

[KUBI]

2 hours ago, Sid1984 said:

Absolutely stupid if this is true. Footballers will not come out, not in the near future anyway. Think of how many who have come out in the past.

I hope there will be a way to disable this feature.

Not possible, you have to live with it. And that's ok.

[warlock]

41 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Not possible, you have to live with it. And that's ok.

More than OK. OK?

[ParanoidBuddha]

I am sure many players don't do that not because are scared etc but because they think people shoudn't care about their sexual tastes. I agree with them and I didn't need this feauture to be honest  

[Andrew_Goats_Gruff]

Features pointless but if someone cares enough to moan, get a life.

 

Aslong as my privacy stays out the media

[Mars_Blackmon]

do regens come out as "straight"

[Deisler26]

56 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

do regens come out as "straight"

🙄🙄🙄

[dSquib]

2 hours ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

I am sure many players don't do that not because are scared etc but because they think people shoudn't care about their sexual tastes. I agree with them and I didn't need this feauture to be honest  

Highly doubtful. If you are gay and haven't come out you can't do something as simple and everyday as going out to a restaurant with your boyfriend, or spending a day at the beach with them. If your teammates ask about your private life in even the most non-invasive or indirect way, you have to evade or lie.

[ParanoidBuddha]

1 minute ago, dSquib said:

Highly doubtful. If you are gay and haven't come out you can't do something as simple and everyday as going out to a restaurant with your boyfriend, or spending a day at the beach with them. If your teammates ask about your private life in even the most non-invasive or indirect way, you have to evade or lie.

I meant public coming out  

[dSquib]

4 minutes ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

I meant public coming out  

If you're a well known person there's no way to be privately out but not have it be publicly known (open secret) and speculated upon. Not without leading a double life, and even that's losing proposition.

[Upside Down]

The game absolutely nothing to do with the players private life, it is just a simulation about football.

We don't hear about players getting married, divorced, having children or anything like that.

However a player being gay is treated as something unusual that needs to highlighted.

Is it really right to focus on the private lives of gay players only? 

I play the game and don't think about anything remotely to do with sexuality, it is irrelevant to the game.

[vikeologist]

How likely will it be that a player comes out as gay? Is it incredibly rare, like 1:10,000 as with a son?

Also do players keep coming out in the game, or is it a one time thing, like to suggest the first player ever to come out of the closet, and after that it doesn't even make it into the news?

In real life, I do think soon a lot of players will be quite open about their sexuality, but a lot of famous gay people are still in the closet, including a lot of top actors and musicians. I suspect that most gay soccer players are out to their teammates.

I think it's daft for people to be in the closet, but clearly somebody has done the research and found out that it would seriously mess up their careers.

This is particularly true with American football, where there are only 32 main teams, and players can be dropped and black-balled at a moments notice, (as per Kaepernik). The most famous NFL players have broadcasting careers, so still can't come out.

I think culturally though it would be fairly easy for a British player to come out of the closet, especially if they play for quite a small club. There are so many teams in so many different cities that they wouldn't be cut out of football, but if you're an international player, I can see that it would be more problematic.

Maybe gay footballers will be monitoring the reaction to this new feature in FM18. I do feel that it is significant, and a laudable move on SI's part.

 

[vikeologist]

12 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

The game absolutely nothing to do with the players private life, it is just a simulation about football.

We don't hear about players getting married, divorced, having children or anything like that.

However a player being gay is treated as something unusual that needs to highlighted.

Is it really right to focus on the private lives of gay players only? 

I play the game and don't think about anything remotely to do with sexuality, it is irrelevant to the game.

I'd like some of those features in the game with regens, such as a player's child being ill and in the hospital, so not feeling in the right head space to play, but I can appreciate that some wouldn't like soap opera elements like this, and it's better just to leave it to our imaginations when players feel homesick or suffer massive drops or rises in determination.

I think the coming out is just a one-off thing. It's not like from that point the players are going to ask to have chats with us every week or so to chat at excruciating length about which men they find attractive, which I have sometimes found to be the real life problem when a friend comes out as gay.

[dSquib]

They've already said it's simply aimed at reducing stigma, normalising etc. It doesn't enhance the game and it's not meant to. Logically, more players will have to come out in the game than have/do/will in real life to reduce the stigma against it - otherwise you're just reproducing real life, not trying to better it in a small way. (Whether or not you think it will make a difference is another matter, but that's what it's there for).

[alian62]

It would be suicidal to put that in this game . Makes no difference if a player is gay or not , What matters is how he plays the game . What next oh im a cross dresser can i play in a skirt ? . Thats a whole new animation they would have to generate

[Smurf]

I think in general it's a disgrace that the media latches onto a player who does come out as homosexual, and spins stories about their sexuality to sell news stories. Let's face it, a homosexual person does not go to the paper and say "Hey I have a story for you that will blow your minds!"

It's sad that sexuality is announced in the media in real life. I'm very surprised that this "feature" is in the game - but you have to applaud them for making an effort to at least address issues. 

I just hope that some day it's the norm and there will be no need to have news stories or draw attention to the sexuality of another person.

 

[grasu]

I honestly had no idea this was even an issue before seeing this topic. I follow several major news websites, including the likes of CNN, along with various footballing websites in a wide range of languages and from many different countries/cultures but I had no idea this was as important as some people on this topic make it out to be.

Much like in the case of Brexit, I don't understand why SI has to insert these kinds of, mostly political, events in the game. At least in this case it seems to be mostly cosmetic and not future-guessing like the Brexit implementation.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

13 hours ago, CFuller said:

I’m sure Miles said somewhere that newgens would not ‘come out’ in nations where homosexuality is still illegal or generally frowned upon.

bit of a cop out

[forameuss]

13 hours ago, jckstevens said:

It's not nice to say, but 'coming out' will never be accepted or the norm in football. The sport is ingrained in the 'working class' mentality, after all thats where its roots are. The whole 'working class' thing isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there is in-build homophobia/racism which has festered in the sport and culture for so long. But big up SI for putting it in, its a gimmick but fair play.

I don't think that's true.  Nowadays, absolutely, but in another generation's time, the new older generation of football fans are going to be people who've grown up when this is considered the normal thing that it is.  They're hardly going to go "well I'm old now, guess I better fear the gays".  You're already starting to see it more with other parts of the game, older, set-in-their-ways people who've had a history in the game showing just how out of touch they are.  Things will change, but obviously not quick enough.

11 hours ago, Sid1984 said:

Absolutely stupid if this is true. Footballers will not come out, not in the near future anyway. Think of how many who have come out in the past.

I hope there will be a way to disable this feature.

Careful everyone, you might cut yourself on this edge.

3 hours ago, prot651 said:

It would be suicidal to put that in this game . Makes no difference if a player is gay or not , What matters is how he plays the game . What next oh im a cross dresser can i play in a skirt ? . Thats a whole new animation they would have to generate

Odd choice of words...why exactly is it "suicidal"?

20 minutes ago, Smurf said:

I think in general it's a disgrace that the media latches onto a player who does come out as homosexual, and spins stories about their sexuality to sell news stories. Let's face it, a homosexual person does not go to the paper and say "Hey I have a story for you that will blow your minds!"

It's sad that sexuality is announced in the media in real life. I'm very surprised that this "feature" is in the game - but you have to applaud them for making an effort to at least address issues. 

I just hope that some day it's the norm and there will be no need to have news stories or draw attention to the sexuality of another person.

 

This, mostly.  It's sad that it's even news that something like this needs to be put into the game, or that who a man or woman fancies is particularly interesting.  Unfortunately, it is what it is, and that's the world we currently live in.  It baffles me that anyone would have a problem with this feature to be honest.

[Mr_Demus]

I am all for homosexuals being open about their sexuality. There is no place in football, or life, for homophobia. So in that sense, I like the sentiment of the feature. Pushing for equality and more open minds. The feature to me is a harmless tidbit, and if it can do even just the slightest to further equality and battle homophobia, then it's just great.

 

BUT...what I don't like is, that we have been told countless times in the past that "this is a football simulator" when requesting features that had to do with the lives of players. And rightly so. It can turn out to be a dangerous path to walk to open up to non football related features in this manner.

[XaW]

23 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said:

I am all for homosexuals being open about their sexuality. There is no place in football, or life, for homophobia. So in that sense, I like the sentiment of the feature. Pushing for equality and more open minds. The feature to me is a harmless tidbit, and if it can do even just the slightest to further equality and battle homophobia, then it's just great.

BUT...what I don't like is, that we have been told countless times in the past that "this is a football simulator" when requesting features that had to do with the lives of players. And rightly so. It can turn out to be a dangerous path to walk to open up to non football related features in this manner.

My thoughts exactly. I applaud SI for bringing the topic in, but at the same time we don't have any "outside football news" of other things, so I'm not sure if this is the way to go. Still, as you say a harmless tidbit. I just hope we won't have to attend weddings(gay or straight), or baby showers(biological or adopted) in-game in the future.

[forameuss]

But surely you can see the reason why they might make an exception for something like this that could raise awareness, and perhaps help people, rather than the oft-requested "wanna buy a house lolz" personal stuff?  

[Mr_Demus]

5 minutes ago, forameuss said:

But surely you can see the reason why they might make an exception for something like this that could raise awareness, and perhaps help people, rather than the oft-requested "wanna buy a house lolz" personal stuff?  

Definitely. I think it's great that a widely spread media such as FM does something for this cause.

I am just concerned, that this could become a gateway to other non football related stuff. Having gay players can positively effect your income AFAIK.

In the future, will having too few negatively effect cashflow? Will people become outraged if you sell a gay player? It's just potentially a slippery slope towards too many random factors.

[Per Annum]

Wondered how long it would be before someone referred to a slippery slope. Animals next!

Come on now. Of course people won't become outraged, your mind is running away with you.

[vikeologist]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said:

Definitely. I think it's great that a widely spread media such as FM does something for this cause.

I am just concerned, that this could become a gateway to other non football related stuff. Having gay players can positively effect your income AFAIK.

In the future, will having too few negatively effect cashflow? Will people become outraged if you sell a gay player? It's just potentially a slippery slope towards too many random factors.

But there's no sign that anything like that will be in the game. I don't think their sexuality has any impact beyond the one message and a small (probably one-time) bump.

Just hope that the first person to get a gay son (preferably one they've paid for) will be really homophobic, because that will be so funny.

[Houndd]

Have no issue with this feature, but I think the addition of the commercial boost following the announcement was unnecessary and a play on a stereotype.

[XaW]

26 minutes ago, forameuss said:

But surely you can see the reason why they might make an exception for something like this that could raise awareness, and perhaps help people, rather than the oft-requested "wanna buy a house lolz" personal stuff?  

Of course, and I stated that. I think it's great that FM takes this stand and hopefully it will help to bring more tolerance.

My point was that I don't want this to become "the Sims, football version". So while this feature is fine, but I wouldn't want the game to go further in this direction. I want to play a football sim, not a life sim.

[forameuss]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

Of course, and I stated that. I think it's great that FM takes this stand and hopefully it will help to bring more tolerance.

My point was that I don't want this to become "the Sims, football version". So while this feature is fine, but I wouldn't want the game to go further in this direction. I want to play a football sim, not a life sim.

Yeah, agree with that.  I don't think there's any danger with that, as they seem pretty adamant that those things won't be added.  It's a special case, just a sad one that it's even necessary today.

[XaW]

1 minute ago, forameuss said:

Yeah, agree with that.  I don't think there's any danger with that, as they seem pretty adamant that those things won't be added.  It's a special case, just a sad one that it's even necessary today.

I wholehearted agree. It should be unnecessary, but, you know, people suck.

[Smurf]

Well there's plenty of efforts worldwide from everyone in the world, Disney etc. all putting homosexual characters in their animations and other things.

It appears to be a world wide effort to stamp out the stigma attached with being a homosexual, and that it's ok to be who you are no matter what your sexual orientation - it doesn't change your personality or skill level, or hamper opportunities. 

It's a good positive message - and I hope that in a few years that this can be removed from the game. As it shouldn't really be necessary, but somehow in today's society there is. 

 

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

I wholehearted agree. It should be unnecessary, but, you know, people suck.

A quick scan of a few of the replies in here show why it's needed

[isignedupfornorealreason]

18 hours ago, Jibby123 said:

Gay's can't play football that well or there's a huge homophobia problem in football in real life.

I'm pretty sure gays can play football.

2 hours ago, Smurf said:

- and I hope that in a few years that this can be removed from the game

IMO, it being in the game is pretty much virtue signalling, and in some way downplays the reality of the situation.

I'm operating on limited information here, as I don't have 18, but I seriously doubt anything is going to be as sweet as "Player comes out as gay, merchandise boost occurs." I think in reality, it will possibly be more messy than that, there'll be a need for a clamp down on sections of fans who will react to that announcement - we already had a little controversy over Lukaku and his special weapon this season.

I also think the potential political fallout in countries less accepting of homosexuality will be more than a touch controversial. I think there's very good reasons why no one wants to come out, and why people have been resisting the FA's desire to find a front man to market as the 'first to come out', - I think a BBC report touched on the fact that some players didn't want to be used as a political tool here, but also others were keenly aware that while we might be champions of gay rights in places like the UK, there are plenty of nations that vehemently hate it with undue passion.

 

In this respect I'm divided on the inclusion of the 'feature' within the game. I hope that it'll make people basically shrug their shoulders and move on, -which should ideally be the reaction to someone declaring their sexuality, cool, who's bothered? No one, let's focus on football, though why is it even important to know a player's sexuality full stop? And yet, on the other hand, I hope the 'feature' doesn't basically downplay the issue so much that people think it is a simple thing to happen, that is long overdue, and that there would be zero downsides or fallout from it happening.

 

Still, I reckon we'll definitely see it happen IRL football before the end of our times, and I just hope the world reacts appropriately to it and the governing body is ready to clamp down rapidly on the anti-reactionary groups that will inevitably spring up as a result. (In that respect, I'm not entirely convinced FIFA will, and I wonder if the players feel the same way tbh.)

[westy8chimp]

I don't think it should be included.

1) the rarity with which it happens will only increase the feeling that it isn't normal

2) it isn't football related

3) by including gays but not Bi's are they then further isolating BI's?

4) tacky merchandise boost seems like landing on chance in a game of monopoly

[Marathon Dress Week]

I really don't care if a player is gay or straight or otherwise.

It's a shame that IRL footballers evidently do, however. 

[XaW]

6 minutes ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I hope that it'll make people basically shrug their shoulders and move on, -which should ideally be the reaction to someone declaring their sexuality

[Swindon69]

If people have a real issue with this - perhaps that justifies it being in.

[MoxeysTheName]

53 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

I don't think it should be included.

1) the rarity with which it happens will only increase the feeling that it isn't normal

2) it isn't football related

3) by including gays but not Bi's are they then further isolating BI's?

4) tacky merchandise boost seems like landing on chance in a game of monopoly

I've noticed people who are bisexual, welcoming this feature

[phnompenhandy]

11 hours ago, ParanoidBuddha said:

I am sure many players don't do that not because are scared etc but because they think people shoudn't care about their sexual tastes. I agree with them and I didn't need this feauture to be honest  

Don't worry - there are dozens of gay regens who won't come out - just for you!

[puffascruffowitz]

As an added bonus all the players who come out in FM get a Flair boost up to 18 Flair. 

[BigRoboCrouch]

The cynical me thinks it is just a marketing stunt to make people and medias talk about the game.

Anyway i don't see why it would affect anyone's enjoyment of the game.

[ParanoidBuddha]

9 hours ago, dSquib said:

If you're a well known person there's no way to be privately out but not have it be publicly known (open secret) and speculated upon. Not without leading a double life, and even that's losing proposition.

But one thing is that others discover it because see you outside with your bf and another is you saying it in a tv interview.