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Unrealistic Interactions With The Players

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I actually really like the Dynamics. It adds an interesting dynamic to the gameplay that you can't just replace players willy-nilly. Much improved over previous versions.

Sure there are a few niggles during the beta - but I'm fully in favour.

I'm sure managers who have built up reputations far above their players won't be having such issues to the same scale.

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Just now, Per Annum said:

I actually really like the Dynamics. It adds an interesting dynamic to the gameplay that you can't just replace players willy-nilly. Much improved over previous versions.

Sure there are a few niggles during the beta - but I'm fully in favour.

I'm sure managers who have built up reputations far above their players won't be having such issues to the same scale.

Still think the presentation needs to be better, groups need better names etc etc etc.

But as something to force scenarios upon the player I'm a huge fan.

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Players move on. It's part and parcel of the game of football. I dare say players accept that. But to have a full scale mutiny and have to justify yourself as a manager is just ludicrous and not workable. 

I dare say some players will be upset by it, but most will think whatever.

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So in game, try being a bigger deal than your players, try surrounding yourself with professional mentality players etc. It's too early to write it off yet.

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I think people have a gross misunderstanding of what a 'full scale mutiny' is. 

I'm about 3/4 of the way through the first season and just had my first real incident with this. My backup RB (rightly) complained about lack of game time, and I tried to fob him off by saying the first choice is in the form of his life (he isn't) which he rightly wasn't happy about. Eventually about 10 players in the team approached me wanting to know why I wasn't giving him a game. Not a 'full scale mutiny', just a few players looking for answers. 

I'm in the middle of a promotion battle, and although the backup isn't quite as good as my first choice, he can still do a job, so I promised the group I would give him a chance. Job done, everyone happy. Had it been earlier in the season, I may have been more assertive with them, but it's a key stage with 12 games left. 

The old tricks don't work anymore, you just need to be smarter and play the situation to your advantage, or in other words, good management. 

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I signed a new LM on deadline day, not noticing that I my CL squad was full. I elected to stick him in at the expense of another LM who promtply freaked out - told him it was an error but he wasn't buying it.

A few days later about 15 players came saying they were unhappy with how I treated him. I said something about doing better in future but they were still fairly unhappy by the end.

3 wins in 5 later and a team meeting telling them to keep their heads up and now most morale arrows are green again. They still have the 'spt' icon but morale is decent so it's hardly a mutiny.

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14 minutes ago, RBKalle said:

 

I'm sorry, but all the "thought" we need is learning, by painful, boring and frustrating trial-and-error what SI did actually mean with every option and how each and every single reply/setting will affect our game.

 

Or if you have a shred of intelligence, use common sense based on the squad you have, how your season is panning out, and the personality of the players involved. I daresay the feature's not perfect, but this is how I've handled the situation, and the results have been positive. Gets a massive thumbs up from me so far. 

As for 'defending' the game, I've been more critical of this year's game than any other in the series, so a massive swing and a miss there, lad. 

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Sometimes saying, "tough ****, I'm the boss" has to win. Otherwise the game as a whole is lost. After all, what's the point of trying to play a football management game if you can't sell or buy players and you face conflict at every decision you make? The game becomes about as fun as just arguing with AI idiots with every decision. 

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Am I really lucky to never have had a revolt? Or are the comment here simply hyperbole? 

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This is my current dynamics. I have 2 players unhappy, the first one is because of a bug I have reported and SI will hopefully fix. He wanted promotion and got unhappy when I did, but only through playoff. The other team is by junior goalkeeper who want to play. When he asked me I told him is not getting it and he got annoyed. I'm looking to move him on in January if he doesn't stop moaning.

Do I have a player revolt? No. So, I don't get the issue here? What are you experiencing that I don't? I'm genuinely asking, since I don't see it.

Is the Dynamics feature flawless? No, by all means. The social group names should be something more describing in my opinion, for instance. It will probably be tweaked and tuned quite a bit, but if you are getting as horrible effects as you claim then you should post bug reports stating what is happening, evidence and possibly ways to recreate it and what you feel should have happened in the bugs section. That would be the only way for SI to fix the issues you have. Especially since it's a new feature, SI are depended on quality feedback.

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A friend of mine got sacked a few months ago. Another mate of mine left because he wanted a new job. They were both popular characters. Although I was slightly upset that they had left, I didn't go marching into the management's office or demand a staff meeting. 

I just got on with my job as an adult and realised that sometimes in life, things aren't always cupcakes and rainbows. Bills have to be paid and people are employed to make difficult choices. 

Having dynamics is great, but to be constantly questioned about every decision in a game is just tedious and unreasonable. 

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I can remember a previous job I had (IRL!) where a bloke left after being there for 30 years. As much as it was sad at the time, nobody batted an eyelid a week later and it was business as usual. 

 

Football is different to real life and players move on. It's what happens. But to have to constantly justify why you are selling a player to him and the team as a whole, is just rubbish. What you will find is 99% of the players will just accept it and not even care.

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I'm all for having this extra dimension in the game. Man management IRL is a very big part of managing a football club. Player power is real, we all know it. Players want to play football, no surprise there.

However, it is borderline ridiculous to have a player show up, 9 months into his 4 year contract demanding a raise - and then being able to turn 11 players against you. Managers don't hand out contracts. Managers don't negotiate contracts. For the love of baby Jesus, this is just so silly. Wanting to play more and being concerned about other players coming in, totally conceivable and logical. But not this contract thing.

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24 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

I can remember a previous job I had (IRL!) where a bloke left after being there for 30 years. As much as it was sad at the time, nobody batted an eyelid a week later and it was business as usual. 

 

Football is different to real life and players move on. It's what happens. But to have to constantly justify why you are selling a player to him and the team as a whole, is just rubbish. What you will find is 99% of the players will just accept it and not even care.

I've sold off 5 players in my first season and no-one has 'batted an eyelid'.

What IS more important than ever this year is to set up your manager profile according to the club you want to manage. You take over at Old Trafford with a Sunday League reputation, then you WILL have the players against you if you try and flog one of theiir mates. People need to be more sensible in how they set up the game in the first place. From then, you just need to gauge the professionalism of your squad. The first season will always be the hardest. You're a new manager coming into a dressing room of players who don't know you. There were little repercussions of this in previous FMs, now there can be. Once you've been there a while and built up your reputation, you can then start to assert your authority. 

It's not really the way FM has worked over the years, so it'll take some getting used to. 

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Really curious to put this to some added test, but as usual, after the Beta is finished (this is still Beta, right?). I found players on prior fairly toned despite some annoyances (back-up keeper on 2012ish always requesting a move if not played much, and naturally, a few idiosyncrasies).


Generally I'm glad the game has been trying to move on from the type where you apply as a Sunday Leage Rep Man at Barca, put Messi into the reserves, ship Iniesta to Real Madrid for zero, and nobody, not the media, nor the board, nor the players, nor the squad, maknig any fuss whatsoever. Same as luring every player to the club by offering them decent squad status, and then screwing them over once they arrive without any troubles. Sitting out player demands without much fuss either. None of this is made up, but tested. This was FM just a few versions ago. That was basically football management for guys who don't actually like football management. I brought this up as late as FM 2013ish/2014ish, so maybe should feel guilty for SI changing their stance in more recent. :D

On the plus side, on the German forums I found one guy enjoying the additional layer pretty much, but they tend to be dominated by guys who deemed "Fifa Manager" to be too arcade, so making that jump to something with a bit more "oomph" and requesting it is natural. Sometimes, FM Touch isn't enough anyway. Shall see... I think some weird stuff will always exist, as it's impossible to simulate human behavior, but then it's also impossible to accurately simulate a 90 minutes football match on a computer including true to life decision makings.  By the way, it it's half as emo as made out, I'm more worried about what it may mean as to AI squad management and performance....

Edited by Svenc

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47 minutes ago, luka_ said:

You are just unbeliavable.

So you handled the situation perfectly with your backup RB. Let's see...In your words you are at the crunch time of a season and your backup player demands to play over your first choice. So,you tell him no and then 10 players (half the squad) comes and demands from you to play inferiour player which you accept and all is well. :rofl:

So, how realistic is this scenario in real life? For example, here comes Michael Carrick to Mourinho's office 10 games until the end of a season in which United is in a ,let's say, top4 battle and Carrick says "look, I think I should play instead of Pogba". Mourinho tells him no and next thing here are half of United squad who demand that Carrick plays instead of the best player in the club. And Mourinho says.."well, why not."

You think this is how the story would end? And the players who whish to replace Pogba with their friend Carrick, like they know Carrick is like 10 times worse for the team but still..hey, he is our friend and we want him to play!

This is just stupid and unrealistic.

Once again, you're missing the whole point of how dynamics works. 

In your example, Mourinho is an experienced, successful manager who has been at the top of his profession for years. If Carrick told him he should be playing ahead of Pogba, Mourinho would have a quiet word and defuse the situation, which Carrick would then (probably) accept. 

At the moment, I don't know how well this will be implemented in-game, but I would like to think it's been coded that when you have built up a good reputation over time, that these situations could be handled differently with you having more authority over the playing staff. 

In my example, this is my first job in management, in my first season. The squad are still unsure of me, and the two players in question were both here when I took over. Therefore this is why I've handled the situation in this manner. As it happens, the backup RB has been playing out of his skin since I brought him back into the team and his morale is sky high. Job done. Good management :D

Hope this helps. 

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Selling kompany:

"I don't want you anymore because you're 31 and injury prone. I think I can still get £40m for you whilst the game still views you as an 'elite defender'. You just aren't conducive to my long term save full stop. Plus I can use the money to buy De Ligt who is 17yrs old."

Enough said. 

Edited by Bothan Spy

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Selling Silva:

"Again, you are 31 but your price will diminish the longer I keep you. It's best I flog you now whilst I can get the AI teams to pay a decent price for you. Plus you're on a daft wage and I dare say I can replace you for a fraction of that a week."

Double enough said. 

Edited by Bothan Spy

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i had a bizarre one in my first season

was playing as Arsenal, just before xmas i got a request from Sanchez for a chat as he wanted to leave to join a bigger club. one of the reply options was about making him happy to stay if we qualified for the Champions league. He agreed to that and it was entered on my promises screen

fast forward to the end of the season, i finished second in the league, man city finished 5th and out of the champions league places. The promise is now shown as successful but when i try to offer him a new contract i cant even speak to him as he is still leaving the club when his contract expires. and guess what he then joins Man City who aren't even in the Champions league the next year.

just doesn't make any sense when the mechanic isn't realistic

 

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2 minutes ago, snedd29 said:

was playing as Arsenal, just before xmas i got a request from Sanchez for a chat as he wanted to leave to join a bigger club. one of the reply options was about making him happy to stay if we qualified for the Champions league. He agreed to that and it was entered on my promises screen

fast forward to the end of the season, i finished second in the league, man city finished 5th and out of the champions league places. The promise is now shown as successful but when i try to offer him a new contract i cant even speak to him as he is still leaving the club when his contract expires. and guess what he then joins Man City who aren't even in the Champions league the next year.

 

Is he getting a lot more money at City? 

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45 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

Double enough said. 

You know, when you say "Enough said" and then say something else, then you obviously were unsure of your own argument...

For what it's worth, I'm not sure how to interpret your comments, since it lack any context or evidence. I'll state the fact that I have done each and every time I've heard this. Report a bug in the bugs sections if you have an issue with the game. With a report on what has happened, evidence to support your claim, and what you feel should have happened instead. Then SI can verify the error to either fix it if it's an error or perhaps tone it a bit if it's just a bit askew. That is what the BETA is for. You are not playing the finished game, you are testing an unfinished version that IS EXPECTED TO HAVE ISSUES.

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2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Is he getting a lot more money at City? 

that wasn't really the point i was making

it was implied he would be happy to stay if the team was going to be playing CL football and despite the promise being shown as successful i never even got the opportunity to offer him a contract which made the whole interaction and the promise irrelevant

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48 minutes ago, snedd29 said:

that wasn't really the point i was making

it was implied he would be happy to stay if the team was going to be playing CL football and despite the promise being shown as successful i never even got the opportunity to offer him a contract which made the whole interaction and the promise irrelevant

No it didn't. Your interaction with him was before the January transfer window. You persuaded him to stay with the promise of CL football, and that promise was fulfilled. However, by the end of the season, he's decided to join Man City despite them not being in the CL because like most players, he's greedy and has been swayed by hard cash more than CL football. All seems reasonable enough to me. 

You'd have a point if the interaction was that he would sign a new contract at the end of the season based on the CL promise then reneged on that (although still within his rights), but from the info you've given, I'm assuming he wanted to move clubs that January. 

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4 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

No it didn't. Your interaction with him was before the January transfer window. You persuaded him to stay with the promise of CL football, and that promise was fulfilled. However, by the end of the season, he's decided to join Man City despite them not being in the CL because like most players, he's greedy and has been swayed by hard cash more than CL football. All seems reasonable enough to me. 

You'd have a point if the interaction was that he would sign a new contract at the end of the season based on the CL promise then reneged on that (although still within his rights), but from the info you've given, I'm assuming he wanted to move clubs that January. 

no the promise was he would be happy to stay if the team qualified for the champions league, a promise that couldn't be fulfilled until the end of the season, but even after the promise was successful he still wanted to leave, money wasn't mentioned and i never got the opportunity to even make him an offer of a contract anyway

its the only time i have ever seen a situation in the game where a condition has been agreed with an unhappy player and even after the condition has been met the player is still unhappy and still wont even discuss a contract

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On 11/4/2017 at 12:49, Dance Seth Dance said:

I decided to do a save where I'm fighting relegation but the problem I'm fighting isn't transfer budget, it isn't being tactically outmanoeuvred, it isn't even having the worst team, it's the f**king players morale. No, not because we're doing bad because I WAS 10th (predicted 19th) but because I'm not playing terrible players in the first team and it destroyed my teams morale. I tell them they're not good enough to be in the first team and they get pissed off and kick up a fuss when one of the guys complaining to me was 2 star rated and I have THREE other RB's who are better than him. So after 4 players have moaned about not getting game time and each one having a few other players back him the team morale shot down and now I'm getting slaughtered on the pitch because the morale is so bad. I do a team meeting, get everyone's morale back up and ONE day later another player cries and pisses off the team again. 

This is just not realistic at all. Hell, even if they were good enough for the first team and they're not getting played, this would not upset the whole squad and ruin their morale. IRL players might think to themselves 'oh that's odd he's leaving out x player but it's the managers choice'. Unless the player left out is literally your star player, most times no one would care enough to actually call a team meeting to bring you up on it and the like. I tell the players okay, I'll sell you then if you want to get first team football elsewhere which in my eyes is pretty fair, but no, this still pisses off your team and you have to do another team meeting. IMO this is completely unrealistic, if you tell a player he's not good enough that should be the end of it, he should go and prove me wrong on the training ground or he should hand in a transfer request and I'll sell him. Not have him kick up a fuss over it and get the whole team trying to lynch me for it. How many times IRL have we ever heard of players leaving their team or openly criticising their manager because x player was left out of the squad? In this game it seems to be happening constantly.

I don't get this... 

Firstly when players are not getting game time I tell them its because 'player x' is performing better than them, they accept this. This always works even in FM2017. If they come back in a few months and say its they dont care about player x , I tell them they can leave. If they try to cause squad problems, the squad are on my side because were winning and morale is high. I just think telling them they are not good enough (even if true) is poor man management for most player personalities in the game.

In my Barnet game I am also tipped for relegation in L2. My squad dynamics showed a 37 year old guy as captain and my vice captain was Curtis Weston. He was the most influential player according to squad dynamics. I dropped both, removed both captaincies and they dont even make the bench anymore. Did this a month into first season.

Team playing well since they both dropped and we went from losing every game to winning every game. From below average morale to excellent morale.

The team needs to respect you, when they do you can be harsh with the players and they will always take your side. From what I can tell they clearly dont have any respect for you, thats why they are siding with players over selection. Sounds like they have **** mental attributes also. Recruit accordingly for better squad characteristics.

From what I have read here this is just poor management. If you were winning on the pitch this would not be happening for sure, also. There is no way a 4th choice right back asking for more game time should destroy a teams form unless it is handled really badly. Thats just not how it works.

Your in a tough spot, but its your own doing. Its going to be really hard to get out of it but its possible. I would recommend playing defensively and looking for counters and nursing your teams ego. I am sure if you can get a win and praise your team you will get back to winning ways in no time, in future make sure you respect your players and they will respect you.

Someone said about LLM... this is entirely the case from my experience and makes total sense. A player on 500 pounds a week and one on 100000 pounds a week will probably differ in ego. So more likely the higher paid players will be harder to man manage and more likely to think they can criticise the manager. In FM2017 I always role played Alex Ferguson. I took no **** and always got what I wanted without ever messing team morale up. I just find if your winning and overperforming on the pitch then morale is easier to manage,

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On 11/5/2017 at 15:00, Dance Seth Dance said:

It's all one big con just to get you buying the editor! :')

I mean if you want the game to be easier I guess so lol. Although game was too easy last year and seems to be similar so far this year to me.

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5 hours ago, snedd29 said:

no the promise was he would be happy to stay if the team qualified for the champions league, a promise that couldn't be fulfilled until the end of the season,

Whilst the promise couldn't eventually be fulfilled until the end of the season, the whole reason the player stayed through the January transfer window was because you promised him your team would qualify for the CK - That's what kept him for the 2nd half of the season. Unless part of that promise was the player signing a new contract with you, then there doesn't seem to be a lot wrong there. It's a bit naughty by the player given the team he's signed for aren't in the CL, but at the end of the day, money talks. 

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Players are also IMO asking far far too early about more game time. I've had players demanding more game time before we've even hit 10 league games, when they have probably played 2-3 of these and had few more sub appearances. 

Again this strikes me as unrealistic. 

Though I've found a quick way to get most of your squad on your side - sign them. I cleared out about 15 players from my Southampton team and signed about a dozen in and thus more than half the squad supports me because they are my signings. 

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17 minutes ago, tajj7 said:

Players are also IMO asking far far too early about more game time. I've had players demanding more game time before we've even hit 10 league games, when they have probably played 2-3 of these and had few more sub appearances. 

Again this strikes me as unrealistic. 

Though I've found a quick way to get most of your squad on your side - sign them. I cleared out about 15 players from my Southampton team and signed about a dozen in and thus more than half the squad supports me because they are my signings. 

10 league games is a third of a season and 2-3 out of 10 is 20-30%, which is extremely low, especially if there's added context like  playing the first 2-3 and then not the next 7-8. Also, a player's ability, his squad status and your manager attributes all need to be taken into account. Players will want assurances that they're not going to be left out to dry.

 

As I've said, issues should be reported in the bugs forum.

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58 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Whilst the promise couldn't eventually be fulfilled until the end of the season, the whole reason the player stayed through the January transfer window was because you promised him your team would qualify for the CK - That's what kept him for the 2nd half of the season. Unless part of that promise was the player signing a new contract with you, then there doesn't seem to be a lot wrong there. It's a bit naughty by the player given the team he's signed for aren't in the CL, but at the end of the day, money talks. 

i dont really understand what your point is here

the promise couldn't be fulfilled before the january transfer window so him agreeing to stay for the second half of the season is irrelevant.

the way conditions usually work is a player asks for something and you get a set amount of time to meet it. in this case the deadline for meeting the condition was the end of the season. the "deal" made was that if we qualified for the champions league he would be happy to stay, we qualified for the champions league but his position never changed, he still wanted to leave. that made the whole interaction irrelevant.

as i said above in every situation where i have had a player that was unhappy and refusing to sign a new contract for whatever reason, if a condition was met that would make them happy, as soon as that condition was fulfilled they would then meet their end of the deal and at least talk about a new contract.

i'll leave this discussion at that tbh as we seem to have our wires crossed completely and you dont seem to understand the point i am making.

 

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Just now, snedd29 said:

ii'll leave this discussion at that tbh as we seem to have our wires crossed completely and you dont seem to understand the point i am making.

 

I understand fully the point you're making, but you're looking at it from the wrong angle. 

I don't know the full story behind this as you're somehow keeping relevant details to yourself, but the main point of the interaction on the information you've given me was nothing to do with signing a new contract, it was more the player wanted to leave there and then and you've persuaded him to stay. It's your game, so you'll know better, but If you think it's a bug, by all means raise it, but if you do, try and give some more context. 

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Is Alexis Sanchez hardcoded to leave Arsenal?

He didn't want even discuss new contract at the start of the season, then in winter he wanted to leave for CL football. I told him we will achieve top4 finish and he agreed to stay for that. After I won the league I got the news that Sanchez is now happy to stay because promise was fullfiled but when I tried to offer him new contract again he won't even discuss. His profile says he is happy at the club, and has like 4,5 items more that are positive about everything but he refuse to discuss contract and at the contract screen his agent says player wants to leave.

Confusing.

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Sanchez will be on Man City's shortlist at the start of every save I expect. Therefore he'll more than likely always refuse a new contract at the end of the season if they are still interested in signing him. It's always the same in the first season on FM, clubs will have certain players on their shortlist when the game starts, been that way for years. 

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1 hour ago, luka_ said:

Is Alexis Sanchez hardcoded to leave Arsenal?

He didn't want even discuss new contract at the start of the season, then in winter he wanted to leave for CL football. I told him we will achieve top4 finish and he agreed to stay for that. After I won the league I got the news that Sanchez is now happy to stay because promise was fullfiled but when I tried to offer him new contract again he won't even discuss. His profile says he is happy at the club, and has like 4,5 items more that are positive about everything but he refuse to discuss contract and at the contract screen his agent says player wants to leave.

Confusing.

Pretty certain he is hardcoded to leave, I had the same situation as you when in my save City finished outside the CL spots (and Guardiola got sacked), I won the league with United but Sanchez still wouldn't even entertain my offers. I even opened up an older backup save which was saved at the January window, I put in an absurd £40m bid for an expiring contract player which Arsenal accepted but Sanchez still would not talk to me. There is no other explanation why he wouldn't even entertain offers.

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I signed a player in the summer for a massive fee; blew the world record out the water. But since then he's been problematic, fallen out with a teammate, and now he's complaining because he doesn't like me or the way I handle training and the general management of the club.

- Sincerely, Unai Emery, Head Coach, PSG.

--

Joking aside, I always felt in previous FMs that often the problem with player interaction was that the game lacks the richness of interaction you would have in the real world. So often I might not have a dialogue option that really fits what I want to say, or I think an option means one thing but that's not what the game means by it.

But anyway, FM18 is in beta; no point getting riled up if interactions aren't working as you expect.

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I had this problem with Man United, I tried to buy a player in the first summer and one of the poorer players who plays in that position didn't like it and the 80% of squad went mental saying I was treating him unfairly, etc. I'm now in November and the squad are still unhappy about it, I even kept the player in question in the end and I've used him and they and the player are still moaning that I don't use him enough. It's frustrating and seems completely random.

I'm not a fan of save scumming but I might have to with player interactions now as there is no way to read the situation.

Edited by Robioto

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34 minutes ago, eric1000 said:

So you resort to insulting the guys intelligence because you disagree with his viewpoint?

I was using the 'royal' you. Swing and a miss. 

 

35 minutes ago, eric1000 said:

You do however have a history of defending the game the moment someone says anything bad about it.  just how long do you spend on these boards compared to playing the game anyway?

I have no 'history' of defending the game. It's a public forum, if someone posts something I disagree with about the game, I'll call them out on it. That's how a forum works. Another swing and a miss. 

 

36 minutes ago, eric1000 said:

just how long do you spend on these boards compared to playing the game anyway?

According to Steam, I'm well over 100 hours on the game already, so guess what? Put it this way, don't take up baseball. :D

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3 hours ago, Pingdinho said:

I signed a player in the summer for a massive fee; blew the world record out the water. But since then he's been problematic, fallen out with a teammate, and now he's complaining because he doesn't like me or the way I handle training and the general management of the club.

- Sincerely, Unai Emery, Head Coach, PSG.

--

Joking aside, I always felt in previous FMs that often the problem with player interaction was that the game lacks the richness of interaction you would have in the real world. So often I might not have a dialogue option that really fits what I want to say, or I think an option means one thing but that's not what the game means by it.

But anyway, FM18 is in beta; no point getting riled up if interactions aren't working as you expect.

 

I think everyone here would be happy with that type of Dynamics interaction in your joke. Sometimes, player transfers just don't work out due to personal reasons / situations and that's fine. The big issue in FM18 is that these seem to always, uncontrollably and with far reach spill over into a large portion of the team. In that scenario, Emery would have 10 PSG first-team players in a meeting with him unhappy with how he is treating Neymar (big morale drops all-round), and then if Neymar were to be sold they would be unhappy with the sale. 

 

In my first LLM save in FM18, about February of the season (~75% in) I was down to a squad with less than 16 players who were either happy or without a "PRM" tag that I'd promised them more game-time. This was from a squad of around 30 players (essential in LLM to have larger squads to cover fitness & injuries). I had free-transferred out all of those backup/hot prospect players who before the Jan window were already unhappy. I even had a bench rotation player, with the squad status of "Hot Prospect", 18 years old, who was unhappy with this game time even though he had started 10 matches and been a sub in 15 matches. I agree with the comments that people misunderstand the squad roles, but when they are so limited it's difficult to actually assign the right ones. When you have a player who you want as a true squad player, there to cover injuries and fitness issues (expecting to play maybe 10-15 games** from a 40 game season), none of the squad statuses fit. Putting it logically:

 

Key: 100%

First: 80%

Rotation: 50%

Backup: 30%

Hot Prospect: 20% (but for younger players only)

 

Having said all of this, the player unhappiness would not be an issue in itself (or at least, it would be a manageable one) if it didn't infect the rest of the squad's morale like a virus. Each time a player says he isn't playing enough, unless the one favourable option is picked (OK no worries mate sorry mate I'll play you mate please don't tell the guys mate please mate) there's a massive morale hit to everyone. As far as I can tell, more players are annoyed if he is influential but even if it's in the basic bitch outcast social group, someone will still get pissy. Again, manageable if it were a one-off. But combined with 10 or so players going unhappy, you end up with your entire squad bouncing between Abysmal (just after the player meeting) and Very Unhappy (just after the resultant team meeting).

Overall it feels like the social modules on their own are a good idea, but the way they combine together (press meetings, team meetings, dynamics etc) end up having an avalanche effect on morale which turns the game from a football management sim into a therapy sim for poorly represented AI personalities. 

SI basically took a thing which typically happen to teams in world football once every season to one player (at most), with those real life examples of Sanchez, Neymar, Costa, Coloccini, et al. and made it happen far too often.

Obviously this could be used to more effects when the player manager has actually managed badly, i.e. mass team exoduses upon relegation, leaving out star players from finals/key games on which the player manager loses, etc. But to have a bunch of lower league workhorse players crying every 2 weeks is just insufferable. 

 

**Edit note; I mean play in as in be a part of, not start. I know that in FM it translates minutes into binary (i.e. 3x 30min sub appearances reads as 0(3) but actually translates as 1x90min (1(0))) which is also unrealistic but this is another topic.

Edited by adamjey

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Player interaction has gone from bad in FM 17 to awful in '18. I hate it. Do we have to have the reputation of Sir Alex without getting a negative reaction from these brats even when we try to complement them?!:mad: I'm in my 1st year at Inter and after congratulating Cancelo  for winning his first cap he says he doesn't feel the "need to be patronized". I'd send him to the U-20's if he wasn't so important to the 1st squad.

Someone said it best in one of the Steam reviews: The game has become "Morale Manager". 

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12 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

I'm in my 1st year at Inter and after congratulating Cancelo  for winning his first cap he says he doesn't feel the "need to be patronized".

What was your starting rep and qualifications?

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9 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

What was your starting rep and qualifications?

 My_Profile.thumb.png.80bd902164609cacaa798df425d652a6.png

First year of my career, 1st season with Inter, left settings at "Automatic". 

 

Back to my original point. I don't think a coach needs any attitude from his players when he gives them a compliment, regardless of reputation. It would be one thing if I was critical of his training or recent form, but some of the player reactions this year are over the top. We are 18 games into the season and top of the table. Some high profile players still don't much care for me and the only reason I can think of is because I'm a rookie coach. I could understand if we were floundering but this is nonsense. I wish there was a response option: "Just STFU, play, and stop your whining!"

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11 hours ago, Heywood JaBlowme said:

 My_Profile.thumb.png.80bd902164609cacaa798df425d652a6.png

First year of my career, 1st season with Inter, left settings at "Automatic". 

 

Back to my original point. I don't think a coach needs any attitude from his players when he gives them a compliment, regardless of reputation. It would be one thing if I was critical of his training or recent form, but some of the player reactions this year are over the top. We are 18 games into the season and top of the table. Some high profile players still don't much care for me and the only reason I can think of is because I'm a rookie coach. I could understand if we were floundering but this is nonsense. I wish there was a response option: "Just STFU, play, and stop your whining!"

It's basically just that he doesn't respect you. I can only think that he's a very high rep player? Saying that, it still seems a little strange that with your starting rep that this would happen, although I can only think that it's because you're unproven as a manager.

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Another **** feature no one asked for. Player Dynamics looked like garbage from the first minute they previewed it and, to no one's surprise, it turned out to be just that: garbage. In the 10 years since SI started making the game more and more about player interaction I have never had a reason to complain about this until now. This year they finally managed to take the cake.

 

I don't know what the TCs in game rep is but being anything other than an international footballer apparently commands zero respect from your players... even when playing Championship level squads!! Just like TC said, players whine and bitch about EVERYTHING! You can literally take a kindergarten class on a hiking trip up a very steep hill with no food, water or rest and you'll have less crying than in this game! How the hell does SI surmise that saying ANYTHING to ANYBODY on a footballing team leads to a complete revolt, even when playing well? I get that some footballers might complain if you're underachieving but when you're on top of the league or 2nd, with automatic promotion in sight, how the hell does telling the backup RB's BACKUP that his colleague is playing too well for you to make any changes get EVERYONE ON THE ****ING TEAM UPSET!? How is this logical and on what planet? Need I mention that the player isn't even a team leader? Of course not, just an influential player, but hey, we all know how groups work amirite?

 

The problem here, amongst other things, is that what you actually TELL players has ZERO effect on them or the ensuing pep talk with the rest of your lovable toddlers. If  I tell a player that he's not playing because his buddy is in the form of his life and said player gets upset, EVEN HIS FRIEND WHO'S IN THE REGULAR 11 GETS UPSET! How does that make sense? How does the player that's BENEFITING from others' lack of form complain that he wants the backup to take his spot in the starting eleven? This makes no logical sense! It would be MUCH better to have only the reserves, fringe players and backups mutiny when someone isn't playing because they're the only ones that risk being benched for long periods of time. 

 

Here's another one, why does my entire team get upset because I tell a player I won't sell him unless I get 1.5 million for him? His current market valuation is about 800K and the player is LITERALLY considering a contract from a team that's offering 1.4 million. Said player tells me he now wants to be sold for 160K, less than a quarter of his ****ing value as he's sitting on a 1.4 MILLION euros deal. We try to negotiate but he won't give me ANY leeway when it comes to his "perceived" value of course. The result of my failed negotiation? The WHOLE squad gets upset. Apparently they all feel like they're worth ~20% of their market valuation and they all feel that someone paying roughly 200% of their value is bull****. I truly must be managing a bunch of anti-FIFA, anti-UEFA, anti-money hipsters that probably frolic in groves, patting each other on the back, braiding their hair and singing a cappella by the fireplace. Never mind half my squad had contracts with sell on fee percentages of 10%+ (because they would otherwise not sign) or that buying teams are paying them less in wages. Nope, none of that matters. 

 

The problem is all these interaction features are half-assed, they've always BEEN half-assed, and they always WILL be half-assed! Si keeps designing and redesigning this every year and it fails, miserably, every time. Last year you could drop a bomb on top of your star striker just for ***s and giggles and your team would be unphased. You'd maybe have 1-2 people who'd timidly ask for an explanation. This year? Should you not have an appropriate answer for that gust of wind the blew by you're players just now EVERYONE will grab their pitchforks and torches and come barging into your office. There is no semblance of balance, rhyme or logic to anything related to player interaction outside of team talks. Tell a player he's been s***e when he was given a chance and despite his appalling form throughout the season he'll get upset and drag along the rest of the team with him. Tell a player you want to sell him, he'll ALSO get upset and drag the rest of the team with him. Or they won't. There's no way to tell. Tone, choice of answer, form, etc. NOTHING matters! It's a random number generator that decides between players bitching or or not.

 

This is not a game mechanic it's pure gambling and I have no Idea what SI intends to do with it. Do they want to start selling lootboxes with player interaction cards? Legendary: get a dumbass player to stop complaining. The same thing can be said about the scouting. None of these changes make any sense given the current FM context... that is UNLESS they want to start selling lootboxes or are thinking of other micro-transactions.

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1 hour ago, grasu said:

Another **** feature no one asked for. Player Dynamics looked like garbage from the first minute they previewed it and, to no one's surprise, it turned out to be just that: garbage.

Personally I think it's been one of the features they've actually implemented really well this year. It's added another dimension to the game. If you're not able to handle your players properly, that's hardly the game's fault. I'm halfway through the first season with a 26-man squad and the only issues I've had is a couple of players looking for more game time, which I've been able to handle fine. 

I've been critical of much of this year's game, but this is a feature which I'm glad they've added and (for me anyway) is working just fine. 

Now, if they could fix scouting...

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1 hour ago, grasu said:

Another **** feature no one asked for. Player Dynamics looked like garbage from the first minute they previewed it and, to no one's surprise, it turned out to be just that: garbage. In the 10 years since SI started making the game more and more about player interaction I have never had a reason to complain about this until now. This year they finally managed to take the cake.

 

I don't know what the TCs in game rep is but being anything other than an international footballer apparently commands zero respect from your players... even when playing Championship level squads!! Just like TC said, players whine and bitch about EVERYTHING! You can literally take a kindergarten class on a hiking trip up a very steep hill with no food, water or rest and you'll have less crying than in this game! How the hell does SI surmise that saying ANYTHING to ANYBODY on a footballing team leads to a complete revolt, even when playing well? I get that some footballers might complain if you're underachieving but when you're on top of the league or 2nd, with automatic promotion in sight, how the hell does telling the backup RB's BACKUP that his colleague is playing too well for you to make any changes get EVERYONE ON THE ****ING TEAM UPSET!? How is this logical and on what planet? Need I mention that the player isn't even a team leader? Of course not, just an influential player, but hey, we all know how groups work amirite?

 

The problem here, amongst other things, is that what you actually TELL players has ZERO effect on them or the ensuing pep talk with the rest of your lovable toddlers. If  I tell a player that he's not playing because his buddy is in the form of his life and said player gets upset, EVEN HIS FRIEND WHO'S IN THE REGULAR 11 GETS UPSET! How does that make sense? How does the player that's BENEFITING from others' lack of form complain that he wants the backup to take his spot in the starting eleven? This makes no logical sense! It would be MUCH better to have only the reserves, fringe players and backups mutiny when someone isn't playing because they're the only ones that risk being benched for long periods of time. 

 

Here's another one, why does my entire team get upset because I tell a player I won't sell him unless I get 1.5 million for him? His current market valuation is about 800K and the player is LITERALLY considering a contract from a team that's offering 1.4 million. Said player tells me he now wants to be sold for 160K, less than a quarter of his ****ing value as he's sitting on a 1.4 MILLION euros deal. We try to negotiate but he won't give me ANY leeway when it comes to his "perceived" value of course. The result of my failed negotiation? The WHOLE squad gets upset. Apparently they all feel like they're worth ~20% of their market valuation and they all feel that someone paying roughly 200% of their value is bull****. I truly must be managing a bunch of anti-FIFA, anti-UEFA, anti-money hipsters that probably frolic in groves, patting each other on the back, braiding their hair and singing a cappella by the fireplace. Never mind half my squad had contracts with sell on fee percentages of 10%+ (because they would otherwise not sign) or that buying teams are paying them less in wages. Nope, none of that matters. 

 

The problem is all these interaction features are half-assed, they've always BEEN half-assed, and they always WILL be half-assed! Si keeps designing and redesigning this every year and it fails, miserably, every time. Last year you could drop a bomb on top of your star striker just for ***s and giggles and your team would be unphased. You'd maybe have 1-2 people who'd timidly ask for an explanation. This year? Should you not have an appropriate answer for that gust of wind the blew by you're players just now EVERYONE will grab their pitchforks and torches and come barging into your office. There is no semblance of balance, rhyme or logic to anything related to player interaction outside of team talks. Tell a player he's been s***e when he was given a chance and despite his appalling form throughout the season he'll get upset and drag along the rest of the team with him. Tell a player you want to sell him, he'll ALSO get upset and drag the rest of the team with him. Or they won't. There's no way to tell. Tone, choice of answer, form, etc. NOTHING matters! It's a random number generator that decides between players bitching or or not.

 

This is not a game mechanic it's pure gambling and I have no Idea what SI intends to do with it. Do they want to start selling lootboxes with player interaction cards? Legendary: get a dumbass player to stop complaining. The same thing can be said about the scouting. None of these changes make any sense given the current FM context... that is UNLESS they want to start selling lootboxes or are thinking of other micro-transactions.

Please cut the swearing out. 

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