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Unrealistic Interactions With The Players

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I fully agree. It's annoying, and it's not only happening in your case. It's also happening when I refuse to give a new contract to a player. The whole team knocks on my door and wants to talk about it. How many times does this happen? When the hell did Maldini care that Shevchenko was not getting a new contract? I don't understand how big issues like these can fall through the cracks. I think it's because SI sometimes comes up with new features (good intentions) and they want to showcase them so much that they overdo it.

Players should mind their own business much more often than in the game – as I am sure they do in reality.

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46 minutes ago, Dance Seth Dance said:

but because I'm not playing terrible players in the first team and it destroyed my teams morale. I tell them they're not good enough to be in the first team and they get pissed off and kick up a fuss when one of the guys complaining to me was 2 star rated and I have THREE other RB's who are better than him. So after 4 players have moaned about not getting game time and each one having a few other players back him the team morale shot down and now I'm getting slaughtered on the pitch because the morale is so bad. I do a team meeting, get everyone's morale back up and ONE day later another player cries and pisses off the team again. 

 

I suspect there will be a bit more to it than this. What is the squad status of these players? Backup? Rotation? Why would you even keep a 4th choice RB at the club unless he's a hot prospect, in which case promising the player a loan move usually settles any unhappiness. How did you handle the meeting when other players got involved? Did you ask your captain to intervene? 

And above all, what is your reputation compared to the club you're managing? This is a massively overlooked aspect, and with dynamics being more prominent now, it's crucial you set this up accordingly. 

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1 minute ago, chrvasile said:

When the hell did Maldini care that Shevchenko was not getting a new contract?

How on earth do you know that he didn't? 

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1 minute ago, chrvasile said:

I fully agree. It's annoying, and it's not only happening in your case. It's also happening when I refuse to give a new contract to a player. The whole team knocks on my door and wants to talk about it. How many times does this happen? When the hell did Maldini care that Shevchenko was not getting a new contract? I don't understand how big issues like these can fall through the cracks. I think it's because SI sometimes comes up with new features (good intentions) and they want to showcase them so much that they overdo it.

Players should mind their own business much more often than in the game – as I am sure they do in reality.

Even worse when your best player wants to leave, and they support selling him which would essentially screw the whole club over. Like if you lot wanna get relegated that badly, you can just tell me I can arrange that.

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Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

I suspect there will be a bit more to it than this. What is the squad status of these players? Backup? Rotation? Why would you even keep a 4th choice RB at the club unless he's a hot prospect, in which case promising the player a loan move usually settles any unhappiness. How did you handle the meeting when other players got involved? Did you ask your captain to intervene? 

And above all, what is your reputation compared to the club you're managing? This is a massively overlooked aspect, and with dynamics being more prominent now, it's crucial you set this up accordingly. 

Nah man I'm no amateur haha he's listed as 'backup' and I've got that many because of the injuries plus players that are able to play multiple positions. Yeah I always tick match my manager rep with the club I'm at that's fine.

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11 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

How on earth do you know that he didn't? 

Have you ever heard about a whole team going to the manager and pressuring him into playing someone who underperforms, or giving someone a new contract? And on top of that, have you ever heard it being leaked to the press?

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1 minute ago, chrvasile said:

Have you ever heard about a whole team going to the manager and pressuring him into playing someone who underperforms, or giving someone a new contract? And on top of that, have you ever heard it being leaked to the press?

Just because it's not on Sky Sports News doesn't mean it doesn't go on. 

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8 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Just because it's not on Sky Sports News doesn't mean it doesn't go on. 

Maybe. But several times a season... don't know. I just think it's highly unlikely (especially when the team is doing better than expected, the manager has higher reputation, etc...).

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I think players shouldnt have status like key player, first team player when you load the game. Would be nice if we as managers decide who is by our opinion key player and who is back up for example. I see a lot of useless players who have first team status and they get angry when they dont play in first 3-4 games. 

 

The other thing is that it is so difficult to build up morale on players then you lose 2 games in a row and they are all poor. 

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Just now, chrvasile said:

Maybe. But several times a season... don't know. I just think it's highly unlikely (especially when the team is doing better than expected, the manager has higher reputation, etc...).

Of course, managers in real life might also manage the situation better :rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

I think players shouldnt have status like key player, first team player when you load the game. Would be nice if we as managers decide who is by our opinion key player and who is back up for example. I see a lot of useless players who have first team status and they get angry when they dont play in first 3-4 games. 

 

The other thing is that it is so difficult to build up morale on players then you lose 2 games in a row and they are all poor. 

Well as the manager you can change their squad status in any case, and when signing contracts you can determine which squad status to give them anyway.

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Of course, managers in real life might also manage the situation better :rolleyes:

Don't know if I like your answer because it's witty and funny, or if I simply don't understand what your problem is...

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14 minutes ago, Aksi92 said:

I think players shouldnt have status like key player, first team player when you load the game. Would be nice if we as managers decide who is by our opinion key player and who is back up for example. I see a lot of useless players who have first team status and they get angry when they dont play in first 3-4 games. 

 

The other thing is that it is so difficult to build up morale on players then you lose 2 games in a row and they are all poor. 

I was thinking this myself, it's common to have a new manager come in and certain players who played first team for their previous manager gets no game time or sold after.

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15 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Of course, managers in real life might also manage the situation better :rolleyes:

Or those situations just don't happen because the game is being very unrealistic about this, hence the whole post.

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Seems very counter productive when most of my players want to get promoted, but then all support the 2 star player when he wants more playing time. Especially when it's over my 7.15 avg rating form player.

Annoying AF. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Dance Seth Dance said:

Or those situations just don't happen because the game is being very unrealistic about this, hence the whole post.

Are you involved at a top football club? If the answer to this is no, then you have absolutely no idea how unrealistic, or otherwise, it is. 

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1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Are you involved at a top football club? If the answer to this is no, then you have absolutely no idea how unrealistic, or otherwise, it is. 

So with your own logic you also have no idea how realistic this game is being. Plus, players do actually tell all when they retire or write a book. Show me ONE, just ONE, where they say "the whole team atmosphere dropped because the manager wouldn't play x player who was actually not good, but we still wanted him to play!"

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I wouldn't worry too much.

Allow them to sulk, it's their loss because they won't be at my club for long. I never buy or keep a player for long with less than 10 (preferably higher) for teamwork, determination and work rate. Teamwork is a key attribute for my dictatorship style of management.

Alleged Chelsea player power irl has no place in my club. The only man you have to keep happy is the man who hires/fires the manager. Eventually the little darlings will buy in to the programme. Or not. :D

Seriously though, I have not done a long save with the new dynamics system, but player power seems to be growing irl, so it will be interesting to see how my 1950s style of management works, I'm all for making it more difficult. It was always a little too easy to keep the lemmings at the coal face at the highest level in old FM's.

 

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54 minutes ago, Jibby123 said:

I wouldn't worry too much.

Allow them to sulk, it's their loss because they won't be at my club for long. I never buy or keep a player for long with less than 10 (preferably higher) for teamwork, determination and work rate. Teamwork is a key attribute for my dictatorship style of management.

Alleged Chelsea player power irl has no place in my club. The only man you have to keep happy is the man who hires/fires the manager. Eventually the little darlings will buy in to the programme. Or not. :D

Seriously though, I have not done a long save with the new dynamics system, but player power seems to be growing irl, so it will be interesting to see how my 1950s style of management works, I'm all for making it more difficult. It was always a little too easy to keep the lemmings at the coal face at the highest level in old FM's.

 

Of course you should worry, when your morale gets hit the team start playing so much worse. They play worse and you start playing under expectations, after that you get the boardroom unhappy with you.

Yeah player power has grown but mostly to do with contracts and not how much game time they 'deserve' or if you want to sell them.

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9 minutes ago, Dance Seth Dance said:

Yeah player power has grown but mostly to do with contracts and not how much game time they 'deserve' or if you want to sell them.

I just love how you know this :lol:

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The thing I see with this from my experience so far in this beta is this. In LLM your core group tends to have more backup players in it. And you can end up with influential players who are backups more easily in LLM due to this if you get a few injuries and end up playing them for a bit. With a big club your core group is more defined by the actual talented, starters, key players to your team. And then you have groups under that. In LLM, in my experience so far in this beta, is that you are ending up with two large groups. A large core group, and a large secondary group. So when someone in either one of those gets upset, the entire group gets upset. So you have situations where your overall team morale can take hit more often if you aren't baby gloving more players in secondary groups. In a big club if a backup guy in a secondary group gets upset I doubt the starters would get upset and it wouldn't be an issue. You'd just have him or maybe a couple players unhappy. No big deal. But in LLM with that large secondary group, you have other players who will back them up. And then you all the sudden have 8+ players freaking out on you. 

Not sure what SI could or should do to fix that though honestly. I'm not sure if this is intended or a side effect. It just seems like maybe how it should be in LLM? Its a different monster in LLM and I think maybe it should be that way. I honestly don't know. This is just what I've experienced. That might actually be how it is in real life too, I don't know. It is making it more challenging I know that. I for one am okay with that. Yes I get frustrated a lot with it also. But its more challenging, so I am more accepting of it. Maybe this is just me, are others having similar experiences?

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It all sounds a bit soap-opera-y.

 

If its happening a lot, it may need scaling back a bit. Player interaction has improved in my view, but I'm wary of the dynamics scene as it's the one area that is just temperamental. I'd like to know more real life examples of dressing rooms melting down over contract issues like this myself tbh.

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They aren't aiming for realism with it they are just trying to make the game more difficult.

It's sole purpose is to trip you up and throw a spanner in the works. 

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FM has always had this. They try to force drama/tension/whatever in the locker room so the interactions are almost always unrealistic (because it's forced drama/tension/etc).

This is why I always buy the in-game editor and just click "Clear Unhappiness" so I don't have to deal with this.

Edited by Artin

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22 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I just love how you know this :lol:

I've already shown you up to be a mug because you can't reply to what I last said to you, don't keep picking at what I'm saying when you don't have the brains to back up your own statements.

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16 hours ago, Artin said:

FM has always had this. They try to force drama/tension/whatever in the locker room so the interactions are almost always unrealistic (because it's forced drama/tension/etc).

This is why I always buy the in-game editor and just click "Clear Unhappiness" so I don't have to deal with this.

It's all one big con just to get you buying the editor! :')

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3 minutes ago, Dance Seth Dance said:

I've already shown you up to be a mug because you can't reply to what I last said to you, don't keep picking at what I'm saying when you don't have the brains to back up your own statements.

Was this the thing about how you thought every single player in the history of football writes a memoir after they retire? That one? :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Was this the thing about how you thought every single player in the history of football writes a memoir after they retire? That one? :lol:

It's nice, that to try and make yourself look like less of a mug you misrepresent what I said. Is this really all that brain of yours could muster up? :idiot:

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I think they've gone a bit OTT with the dynamics thing they are so proud of, to the point where it's making some peoples game experience less enjoyable.

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11 minutes ago, Bothan Spy said:

I think they've gone a bit OTT with the dynamics thing they are so proud of, to the point where it's making some peoples game experience less enjoyable.

I think that's probably down to how people are managing it to be fair. 

Experienced FM users get used to the way the game works over time. This is the first time that squad dynamics has been so prominent in the game, and indeed, so visual. It simply requires a rethink of how you handle that part of the game. I'm halfway through the first season in my current save with Fulham and have had a few issues to deal with, which have required a bit more thought than before. 

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Totally agree here.

 

Influencial Lucas Atkins: Im fed up of not playing 6.7 average. 

Me: Sean Scannell  is doing well their (6.9 average with more pace)

Lucas Atkins: I dont think his playint that well at all, are you telling me you dont think im capable of doing what Scannell is doing? (Clearly not as Scannells pace and average is better)

 

next day , pretty sure it was 23 players coming up to me complaining. I said...! it would mean dropping someone whos more deserving. 9 players turn happy while the rest are morale destroyed and unhappy.

 

Hopefully full release sorts this else i’ll avoid player chats all together.

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Politics, maybe you sacrifice playing the better player in favor of keeping the team together...How about not trying to go crazy buying new players during the first transfer market...

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14 hours ago, Bothan Spy said:

I think they've gone a bit OTT with the dynamics thing they are so proud of, to the point where it's making some peoples game experience less enjoyable.

Agree but it's still beta.

Hopefully they are getting feedback and tweaking it. At the moment I think it is having too much influence and it also doesn't make sense. 

Examples of this are me signing Virgil Van Dijk, the next day in the squad dynamics he opposes me, he's been at the club ONE day, I say nice things about him in the press conference but apparently he opposes me.

I've also had half a dozen players have good relationships with me and list me as their favoured people, yet on the squad dynamics they don't support me, cos reasons. 

And as mentioned in this thread too many players get upset just because one player isn't getting his way. I had more than half the squad angry at me because I wouldn't give Diawara a new contract, even though he'd only been at the club 6 MONTHS and was on £100k a week.  Players shouldn't be asking for new contracts until at least a year after they signed their last one, if not 18 months minimum, but then half the squad shouldn't get upset about it. 

It needs to be more logical IMO, players should not be asking for pay rises every 6 months and the whole squad would not get upset with them, players not playing who are worse than first teamers may get upset but can't see how the whole squad is going to get upset they aren't playing. 

 

Edited by tajj7

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We keep saying it, but it remains valid : If you have an issue, please report it and ideally upload a save to the FTP from just before the issue so it can be properly looked at.

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1 hour ago, tajj7 said:

players not playing who are worse than first teamers may get upset but can't see how the whole squad is going to get upset they aren't playing. 

 

If anything, the other players should like it as it gives them playing time.

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10 minutes ago, Tiger666 said:

If anything, the other players should like it as it gives them playing time.

Yeh it would be interesting to see how many players complain about teammates getting more game time when that game time is likely to be at their expense. 

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On 04/11/2017 at 14:58, chrvasile said:

Have you ever heard about a whole team going to the manager and pressuring him into playing someone who underperforms, or giving someone a new contract? And on top of that, have you ever heard it being leaked to the press?

On 04/11/2017 at 15:01, Dagenham_Dave said:

Just because it's not on Sky Sports News doesn't mean it doesn't go on. 

 

Yeah, don't worry about evidence. I've never seen a report of a pitch invasion by pink unicorns on Sky Sports News either. By your logic it doesn't mean that that doesn't goes on either.

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4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

We keep saying it, but it remains valid : If you have an issue, please report it and ideally upload a save to the FTP from just before the issue so it can be properly looked at.

And follow Hunt3r's advice. Anything else is shouting into the wind.

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I think the OP has some very valid points and has raised them well. Let's hope it's just a beta bug teething problems and will be ironed out come the release! Because if I have to argue the toss with every 4th choice player about why he isnt playing and then have to justify myself to the team every other week, then it's going to be a loooonnnggg season...

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Tbh, I'm going to start as Manchester city just to get to grips with the game and I'm going to flog kompany and Silva straight away. The team can suck my plums if the don't like it...

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Yes its broken actually, the following was happening. I sell Arda Turan, Messi goes balistic (a mystery in itself why he would bother) , i tell him the youth will step up. He is ok with it , for now.

So i play the youth , 10 months later he comes back and is unhappy and wants to leave, because youth didnt step up, something is wrong here because i played Young players throughout the season and we won the League and did well in Champions League. Anyway problem number 3 after i patch up with Messi and he isnt bothered again then Dembele goes on rant about being unppy because i sold Messi? which i clearly didnt , look he is sitting right beside you in the dressing room for Christ sake! anyway , so now he is unhappy. So it creates some kind of chainreaction in the game due to a poorly over the top sensitive player interaction, each wrongfull answer cant destroy your season to a degree. I wont file any bug report because i dont Think they consider this a bug anyway.

Edited by eye-switcher

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I think part of the misconception is what a "backup" in FM terms are. A backup player in FM still expects around 10-15 matches each season, depending on cups and such. Most FM'ers treat them as "only expect to play when we have an injury crisis".

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14 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

Yes its broken actually, the following was happening. I sell Arda Turan, Messi goes balistic (a mystery in itself why he would bother) , i tell him the youth will step up. He is ok with it , for now.

So i play the youth , 10 months later he comes back and is unhappy and wants to leave, because youth didnt step up, something is wrong here because i played Young players throughout the season and we won the League and did well in Champions League. Anyway problem number 3 after i patch up with Messi and he isnt bothered again then Dembele goes on rant about being unppy because i sold Messi? which i clearly didnt , look he is sitting right beside you in the dressing room for Christ sake! anyway , so now he is unhappy. So it creates some kind of chainreaction in the game due to a poorly over the top sensitive player interaction, each wrongfull answer cant destroy your season to a degree. I wont file any bug report because i dont Think they consider this a bug anyway.

Aye mayte I'm sure they don't think it's a bug that Dembele is unhappy about Messi being sold. Stellar.

Luckily for the rest of us someone else had the decency to already log that exact same one.

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23 minutes ago, eye-switcher said:

Yes its broken actually, the following was happening. I sell Arda Turan, Messi goes balistic (a mystery in itself why he would bother) , i tell him the youth will step up. He is ok with it , for now.

So i play the youth , 10 months later he comes back and is unhappy and wants to leave, because youth didnt step up, something is wrong here because i played Young players throughout the season and we won the League and did well in Champions League. Anyway problem number 3 after i patch up with Messi and he isnt bothered again then Dembele goes on rant about being unppy because i sold Messi? which i clearly didnt , look he is sitting right beside you in the dressing room for Christ sake! anyway , so now he is unhappy. So it creates some kind of chainreaction in the game due to a poorly over the top sensitive player interaction, each wrongfull answer cant destroy your season to a degree. I wont file any bug report because i dont Think they consider this a bug anyway.

You clearly need to log this in the bug forum. Because this is a bug.

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Without a visual indication *ON THE MAIN SELECTION PAGE* of how much a player has played (to keep them satisfied), I find it impossible to even know how much to play a player.

 

But lucky me, I set up Baines (Everton Left Back) as Vice Captain and every time someone complains about playing time, I tell him to fix it and like magic the problem is delayed for another month, then we repeat the Vice Captain talk to them dialog, over and over and over and over, because I just can't figure out how much to play players to keep them happy. As far as I can tell the game wan't a PERFECT world where everything is the same schedule so I can play them like every 3rd match for rotation or whatever, but the game doesn't generate perfect patterns of matches.

 

He did fail fix one complaint from the main backup GK and I simply sold him, but the odd thing is I think all the backup players in the U23 squad doesn't complain, because the 3rd backup keeper never complained, but the game stupidly suggested moving him to the senior squad and I did, before I realized something was up with "playing happiness" and Squad and I wonder if I either stuck with getting told OVER and OVER and OVER that I need to move him to the senior squad or that all the backup players start a riot when I move them back to the U23 squad.

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The dynamics that was heavily promoted is broken. You spend more time reassuring players and the team as a whole than actually playing the game properly.

It needs seriously toning down otherwise the game becomes a massive unplayable, unpleasant, ball ache. 

Do I really want or need to call a team meeting everytime I decide to sell or not play a player?

Do I have to realistically justify myself to every player when I don't play him?

Not practical. 

Do I lose the moral of the team everytime I decide to sell a senior player?

Let's face it. Most of us work who play the game, but does your staff team march into the managers office everytime somebody leaves or gets sacked? Or do they just get on with their jobs and welcome the next member of staff who replaces them?

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