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6 minutes ago, YouGotNoFans said:

Can't wait to read this series. Also wanted to say I'm a new subscriber to your Patreon and your book is so helpful. 

Thank you.

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@Rashidi

Quick question, if for example i would use a FB(d) or FB(s) in the right side, could be a good idea to change the Carrilero on that side to a Mezzala with support or attack duty, so that i have more attacking solutions on that flank?

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It's like we've gone back in time 10 years with the formations :D

Another cracking thread and I'll be checking out the video when its done too.

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5 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

@Rashidi

Quick question, if for example i would use a FB(d) or FB(s) in the right side, could be a good idea to change the Carrilero on that side to a Mezzala with support or attack duty, so that i have more attacking solutions on that flank?

Definitely an option. I had considered doing that as well, in another variation, you may want to ask the Mezzala to run wide with the ball in that case. There is a possibility that you could see that side being vulnerable though, but its also an option I have used.

3 minutes ago, Cleon said:

It's like we've gone back in time 10 years with the formations :D

Another cracking thread and I'll be checking out the video when its done too.

Without a doubt this is becoming very enjoyable.

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Nice one- I use this formation a lot, and with the new carrilero role, it relieves me of having to use the BWM(S) role that customarily used as the side CMs. Glad you wrote it up :applause:

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Another great read Rashidi. Can't wait to watch more videos of your YT channel too, makes work less boring. :D

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13 hours ago, nick1408 said:

What sort of player suits the carrilero?

Generally you are looking for players who have good work rate, strength and bravery to go in for the challenge, tackling and decisions to know which are necessary. They should also possess good positioning and anticipation.  In previous editions of the game most of us would go with the option of using the generic central midfielder because all other roles didn't do what we wanted. In FM18 this role is disciplined enough to stick to the right side of the flank, and hardworking enough to cover some serious acreage. 

11 hours ago, DirtyJoe said:

Great thread mate.  I love this formation along with the 4312.

Planning to do that too, as both of these formations the 4132, and the 4312 are my flip flop tactics. They've been my favorite systems since CM days

 

 

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22 hours ago, Rashidi said:

The 4132 has consistently been one of the best systems I've used in lower league football, it can be defensively solid, and with two strikers it has potent counter attacking potential.

Would be interested in your views regarding suitable "tweaks" for a top 6 Premier League side. Given quality of players, I am erring towards Camping 4132 style but moving DLP (D) up to MC strata with exisitng AP (A) moving to AMC as AP (S). For Strikers thinking of changing to Advanced Forward (A) paired with a F9 or CF (S).

Views/advice appreciated.

Great article, as ever, and really enjoy reading your articles and watching videos on YouTube.

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54 minutes ago, mhaffy said:

Would be interested in your views regarding suitable "tweaks" for a top 6 Premier League side. Given quality of players, I am erring towards Camping 4132 style but moving DLP (D) up to MC strata with exisitng AP (A) moving to AMC as AP (S). For Strikers thinking of changing to Advanced Forward (A) paired with a F9 or CF (S).

Views/advice appreciated.

Great article, as ever, and really enjoy reading your articles and watching videos on YouTube.

The Camping System is the riskiest of them all, but if you have the players and are watching the defensive line its certainly possible.  And if you are planning on moving the players up then you are changing it to a 4312 :-)

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Thanks for swift feedback - i realise that I am changing it to a 4312. I like the solidity of a midfield trio but thought that good quality players might allow a couple of roles to move up a strata. Will experiment with it in Beta before getting into long term save when full game released. Any views on suggested AMC/striker roles greatly appreciated.

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4-3-1-2 is my favourite formation as I love the three upfront combinations to split  defences, specially having a great 10 behind the strikers.

As I’m currently playing in the conference with a team just promoted (dafuge challenge) and don’t have the kind of AM needed, I’m testing the counter 4-1-3-2 instead.

So far I’m stealing some points mainly endin games 1-1 and currently managing to avoid the relegation zone but still not happy with it.

My main issues (that might be just bad players) are:

Offense: my defense is kicking the ball forward all the time very fast and usually it ends on the opponent team players so they come back to put pressure on me again and again. Even if my strikers can control the ball, they are far from the opposite goal and they lose it before causing any trouble, either on a failed dribble or a bad pass to the other striker.

Defense: I’m having big problems VS flat 4-4-2 that is expected due to this formation, specially dealing with deep crosses from the unmarked fullbacks to the far post where there is always somebody waiting to head or kick it in. I hired above average jumping DCs for the level (13 and 15) as I knew crosses would be a big problem but they make no difference. Of course at this level it was at the expense of just average positioning and anticipation.

I’ll keep tweaking it and trying to find the right players at least for the next season if I manage to survive relegation.

 

 

Edited by Icy

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I'm trying to implement a formation that is kinda similar to this one - a take on a 4-4-2 narrow diamond using three players in the CM-strata and two carrileros for the wider CM-positions. In my two first choice players for those positions i have one left footed and one right footed. Would you play them with their stronger foot on the outside or the inside?

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1 hour ago, Klfh said:

I'm trying to implement a formation that is kinda similar to this one - a take on a 4-4-2 narrow diamond using three players in the CM-strata and two carrileros for the wider CM-positions. In my two first choice players for those positions i have one left footed and one right footed. Would you play them with their stronger foot on the outside or the inside?

I would play them with the strong foot outside outside so they play wider and can also cross the ball if needed, else with the diamond they will all congest the middle.

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4312 is also my favourite formation, and the 4132 is like a poor cousin of the 4312, its pretty easy to flip it around, the same thing applies to the 442 diamond, all 3 systems have a diamond in the middle

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Really interesting thread and great write-up! I have been following your tactics since back in the day. Would like to try this one out with my Everton team. We have been doing OK but struggling to control games so I think this shape & formation could work out well. 

Have a few questions though:

Why did you go with play wider when the shape is quite narrow with the focus on the central midfielders?

Did you consider Mezzalla instead of Carrillero, reading the role description that seemed to fit in with what you are trying to do and they may provide some more width too

Confused by the work ball into box instruction on the counter tactic, shouldnt we be looking to launch the ball quickly forward

What do you think of trying higher closing down especially for the camping & attacking tactics? Did you try it out?

Have you found float crosses to be much stronger in the game, I have 2 mobile strikers not necessarily too good in the air (Dembele & Sandro)

And finally, what would you suggest if chasing the game for the last 20-30 min, change the shape to a 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3 maybe?

Thanks!

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Correct me if i'm wrong but i believe that Play Wider TI only affect the horizontal space between players, it doesn't mean that the play will focus down the flanks, like it did in pre-FM17 versions.

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I've been trying to get the 4312 working in my most recent save, along with the 4321, and I've had mixed results. I've got the players to play the 4132 as well so will use some of the ideas from this and feed them into my formations to see if I can get some more reliable results.

p.s. why is it important that the RB is the one set to WBd? My RB is better going forward than my LB so would prefer it the other way round. Is it due to the setup of the forwards? Can we swap them round if we want the RB to be the attacking one?

Edited by Britrock

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3 hours ago, Britrock said:

I've been trying to get the 4312 working in my most recent save, along with the 4321, and I've had mixed results. I've got the players to play the 4132 as well so will use some of the ideas from this and feed them into my formations to see if I can get some more reliable results.

p.s. why is it important that the RB is the one set to WBd? My RB is better going forward than my LB so would prefer it the other way round. Is it due to the setup of the forwards? Can we swap them round if we want the RB to be the attacking one?

I'm sure just like cleon, ozil etc Rashidi is just trying to give you the ideas to create a 4-1-3-2 that plays to your teams strengths. If you feel your rb is better suited to go forward then as long as you keep the system balanced and have sound reasoning's behind the roles and instructions you give the players then there is no reason the rb being the more offensive one won't work :thup:.

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2 hours ago, Marc.Foster050 said:

I'm sure just like cleon, ozil etc Rashidi is just trying to give you the ideas to create a 4-1-3-2 that plays to your teams strengths. If you feel your rb is better suited to go forward then as long as you keep the system balanced and have sound reasoning's behind the roles and instructions you give the players then there is no reason the rb being the more offensive one won't work :thup:.

That's what I figured, it just seemed strange he specifically pointed out the RB as the one to hold back. I'll flip the strikers and put the RB as the offensive FB and roll from there :thup:

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Excellent post and this was a tactic I was using in FM17. 

 

Started a save with Maidstone in the National League and trying to set up something similar with them. Looking at my players strengths and weaknesses, I have wb(s) on the left flank (good attacking option but has poor work rate so don’t trust him with an attack duty and on the right I have a wb(d). Solid defensively but not much cop going forward. Ahead of him the wb(d) I have the carillero in the 3 mids centre strata and above the wb(s) I have a cm (s) as he’s not capable of the carillero role. I used 2 cm(s) around an advanced playmaker on fm 17 and it was a solid set up rather than spectacular. What do you think the cm (s) lacks in this set up compared to the carillero? How would my wb(s) move with the cm(s)? Maybe an fb(a)?

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10 minutes ago, loisvale said:

Interested in how you flip this into a 4312. 

 

 I was thinking the same,  wanted to see some ideas of a 4-1-3-2 and then we're taking about another shape entirely.

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On 11/14/2017 at 14:19, karanhsingh said:

Really interesting thread and great write-up! I have been following your tactics since back in the day. Would like to try this one out with my Everton team. We have been doing OK but struggling to control games so I think this shape & formation could work out well. 

Have a few questions though:

Why did you go with play wider when the shape is quite narrow with the focus on the central midfielders?

Did you consider Mezzalla instead of Carrillero, reading the role description that seemed to fit in with what you are trying to do and they may provide some more width too

Confused by the work ball into box instruction on the counter tactic, shouldnt we be looking to launch the ball quickly forward

What do you think of trying higher closing down especially for the camping & attacking tactics? Did you try it out?

Have you found float crosses to be much stronger in the game, I have 2 mobile strikers not necessarily too good in the air (Dembele & Sandro)

And finally, what would you suggest if chasing the game for the last 20-30 min, change the shape to a 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3 maybe?

Thanks!

Go wider should encourage my boys to take it down the flanks, if you notice the focus is on the wide players to deliver the threats. Nope I wouldn't use a mezzala in this system its too risky. The primary goal creators are the 2 wbs and the Central CM the rest are support. 

WBIB is there when we don't generate automatic counters in which case I don't want my players to always strike from far, which happens to be the primary issue in FM18

I wouldn't try out higher closing down in camping systems because my players will loose shape too easily, if I wanted to sit deep, I'd even ask my front strikers to close down less.

Float crosses are good when you have target men. Otherwise I'd go for whipped or low, the choice depends on the kind of strikers you have in the box. If chasing a game I would stick to the same, push defensive line and adopt a more fluid shape.

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On 11/15/2017 at 00:58, Britrock said:

That's what I figured, it just seemed strange he specifically pointed out the RB as the one to hold back. I'll flip the strikers and put the RB as the offensive FB and roll from there :thup:

Its specific to my players and the way I want to attack, in the way I designed this system and for the players in my team. Here the right sided one is on the side with the less attacking striker, so he is the one I'd rather hold back. Flipping this to a 4312 is relatively simple. Essentially turn the. central MC to an AMC and the DM to a DLP, but I would more than likely only use one WB on attack

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5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

WBIB is there when we don't generate automatic counters in which case I don't want my players to always strike from far, which happens to be the primary issue in FM18

 

Does this mean you feel that there is an issue with players taking too many long shots even when there is a pass they could make instead?

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I have yet to play with a top side the whole season yet, but I am getting around 50%SOT I do feel there are a lot of long shots, but I have also noticed games where the AI gets inside very easily, so I am pretty sure there’s more to this 

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5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I have yet to play with a top side the whole season yet, but I am getting around 50%SOT I do feel there are a lot of long shots, but I have also noticed games where the AI gets inside very easily, so I am pretty sure there’s more to this 

Well I'm getting 44% SOT so still need some work there however I do feel there is an issue with shot quality since I notice that a lot of those shots off target should never be off target since they should be easy shots.  I am playing with a top team in the Belgian leauge so my players aren't world class but some of the misses I have seen are shocking.  And the long shots seem strange, cause I have been checking these in the analysis tab and sometimes my players just take a long shot when there is an easy pass and a more difficult pass on.  This is with work ball into box on and PIs of shoot less often.

 

EDIT:

I just had the perfect game to illustrate this, 4 shots from well inside the box and none that hit the target, in total I had 15 shots with only 5 on target. PS The opposing teams number 14 hit an ambitious shot.

shotsoff.jpg

Edited by Jessan
added picture

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1 hour ago, RTHerringbone said:

Couldn't find where else to post this, but saw this from @Rashidi and @Cleon earlier - genius! :D

 

Haha did you enjoy it 😂

The uncensored version can be found on my blog 😂

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Just now, Cleon said:

Haha did you enjoy it 😂

The uncensored version can be found on my blog 😂

Yeah, it was great :D

Best thing is that the pair of you just say it straight and the stand-out message from you both is "This game is not hard - don't press something for the sake of it, don't do something if you don't understand why you're doing it".

People overthink the game, and hopefully by hearing that the pair of you just play it simple might remind people that it's genuinely a straight-forward game.

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4 minutes ago, RTHerringbone said:

Yeah, it was great :D

Best thing is that the pair of you just say it straight and the stand-out message from you both is "This game is not hard - don't press something for the sake of it, don't do something if you don't understand why you're doing it".

People overthink the game, and hopefully by hearing that the pair of you just play it simple might remind people that it's genuinely a straight-forward game.

That’s good feedback :)

It’s going to be a monthly show so hopefully we can hammer home the simple approach and take people back to basics and uncomplicate the game for people.

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10 hours ago, RTHerringbone said:

Yeah, it was great :D

Best thing is that the pair of you just say it straight and the stand-out message from you both is "This game is not hard - don't press something for the sake of it, don't do something if you don't understand why you're doing it".

People overthink the game, and hopefully by hearing that the pair of you just play it simple might remind people that it's genuinely a straight-forward game.

Yeah you’ve been here long enough to know how we feel. When I was younger, younger than today, I never thought I never needed anybody’s help in anyway. So I set about doing detailed super detailed breakdowns looking at a formulaic approach. 

After realising that things are actually a lot easier when you take simple logical steps I abandoned it. Today I feel that if people think about what they want they can get it. It’s these big concepts like Shape, Combinations and Transitions that get a people undone. So I am hoping that we can tackle these subjects and keep them so simple that it’s easier to digest. And thanks for the feedback, input like that will help us chart the course of the show.

Time now to get by son to sing O Bla di with me.

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15 hours ago, Jessan said:

Well I'm getting 44% SOT so still need some work there however I do feel there is an issue with shot quality since I notice that a lot of those shots off target should never be off target since they should be easy shots.  I am playing with a top team in the Belgian leauge so my players aren't world class but some of the misses I have seen are shocking.  And the long shots seem strange, cause I have been checking these in the analysis tab and sometimes my players just take a long shot when there is an easy pass and a more difficult pass on.  This is with work ball into box on and PIs of shoot less often.

 

EDIT:

I just had the perfect game to illustrate this, 4 shots from well inside the box and none that hit the target, in total I had 15 shots with only 5 on target. PS The opposing teams number 14 hit an ambitious shot.

shotsoff.jpg

When I see poor shot quality I look at simple things. Do I get the breakaways I want : open space, backs charging down the lines free of attention to cross. Forwards moving between channels to get on goal? 

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6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

When I see poor shot quality I look at simple things. Do I get the breakaways I want : open space, backs charging down the lines free of attention to cross. Forwards moving between channels to get on goal? 

Seems I solved it :p 

But no I'll look into things a little further, I have noticed that at times my fullback on support has a lot of space infront of him but my players seem unwilling to pass it to him or into that space.  I don't really want to play him as a wingback since he is very limited, might be something for next season when I can get a proper wingback for that spot.

shots.jpg

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On 18/11/2017 at 07:51, Rashidi said:

Its specific to my players and the way I want to attack, in the way I designed this system and for the players in my team. Here the right sided one is on the side with the less attacking striker, so he is the one I'd rather hold back. Flipping this to a 4312 is relatively simple. Essentially turn the. central MC to an AMC and the DM to a DLP, but I would more than likely only use one WB on attack

Enjoyed this thread. Going to try moving ap attack up to amc strata as a AP support and add move into channels. Also will move dlp def up into mc strata with more direct passes and riskier and make sure one wb is concentrating on defence and see what happens. Would love to get this to work flipping these all around and giving myself lots of options. 

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Le 19/11/2017 à 06:00, crusadertsar a dit :

This tactic is made for AC Milan. Trying this in new save with them right now

Do you have some result with Milan. i'm struggling

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Good thread and some interesting bits I hadn't considered. I'm using this formation as Coruna in FM17 with b2b midfields instead of carillos, and a few different roles for the strikers and the other 2 midfielders. 

Andone for me is scoring loads as a poacher alongside a bigger dlf to occupy defenders. I am going to give using a dlp and ap-a in midfield a go based on this and see what happens. 

Also, why do you recommend making the right back the less attacking?

Edited by HemHat

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