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Have the sounds been tweaked for FM18

Away goals with 5000 away fans sounds the same as 100 fans and this needs to be changed

Same with home goals at a small stadium the sound from the fans is the same as a large stadium. This would sound so much better if attendance sizes reflected the actual goal and cheering sounds

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I'd be surprised if they announce anything like this, might be noticeable in the match videos when they are released, otherwise, might have to wait and see in the beta/demo

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Its odd that after so many iterations of FM that they only have one set of .wav files that are used for every occassion. Is it really that difficult to have 3 or 4 sets that are used dependent on the size of the crowd? I might be being naive, but it seems a relatively small effort for the immersion.

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There aren't really any small efforts when working on a product of this size.  It's probably just that they don't deem it worthy of the time.  All about priorities, and a lot of things that will be relatively (note that word) simple will get missed out because of the more important ones.

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My first step when installing a new FM is turning off the sound. Can't remember the last time I used it; possibly when they had match commentary.

Prefer to listen to music when playing these days.

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1 hour ago, forameuss said:

There aren't really any small efforts when working on a product of this size.  It's probably just that they don't deem it worthy of the time.  All about priorities, and a lot of things that will be relatively (note that word) simple will get missed out because of the more important ones.

Programmatically its cant be difficult. If the stadium crowd is big then read the sound files from the big crowd folder etc

Making the sounds might be the issue. Or the size of the files maybe. Or they don't have the resources.

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13 minutes ago, mbabbs said:

Programmatically its cant be difficult. If the stadium crowd is big then read the sound files from the big crowd folder etc

Making the sounds might be the issue. Or the size of the files maybe. Or they don't have the resources.

But every single thing needs tested.  There is nothing simple to add end-to-end.  

More accurately I'd imagine, it's just not important enough given that a lot of people don't care about sound.

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5 hours ago, forameuss said:

But every single thing needs tested.  There is nothing simple to add end-to-end.  

More accurately I'd imagine, it's just not important enough given that a lot of people don't care about sound.

I would argue that a sound overhaul would add more to the game than most of the new features added. 1st thing i used to do around 10+ years ago when buying the new release of FM was to go online and look for a sound/chant pack but to my knowledge it has long disapeared unfortunately. We have sports scientists, data analysts heck we even have a 3D match engine since then but the poor old sound has remaned the same.

I know alot of people will state that they don't even have the sound on when playing FM and would rather efforts where spent elsewhere, but there is also people who still only use the 2d match engine which dont mean the choice of a 3D match engine should be taken away from others who prefer it (and this takes far more resources to implement/tweak). SI is obviously trying to create some match day immersion in recent releases by adding the pre-game clips of the stadium, teams warming up etc but surely a better atmosphere would add so MUCH more afterall the premier league isnt the most watched league in the world because its the most talented but most would argue that its the atmosphere that makes it number 1 !

Edited by stoned_assasin

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6 minutes ago, stoned_assasin said:

I would argue that a sound overhaul would add more to the game than most of the new features added. 1st thing i used to do around 10+ years ago when buying the new release of FM was to go online and look for a sound/chant pack but to my knowledge it has long disapeared unfortunately. We have sports scientists, data analysts heck we even have a 3D match engine since then but the poor old sound has remaned the same.

I know alot of people will state that they don't even have the sound on when playing FM and would rather efforts where spent elsewhere, but there is also people who still only use the 2d match engine which dont mean the choice of a 3D match engine should be taken away from others who prefer it (and this takes far more resources to implement/tweak). SI is obviously trying to create some match day immersion in recent releases by adding the pre-game clips of the stadium, teams warming up etc but surely a better atmosphere would add so MUCH more afterall the premier league isnt the most watched league in the world because its the most talented but most would argue that its the atmosphere that makes it number 1 !

And I would argue that it wouldn't.  It's all in personal preference.  Whenever this is brought up plenty of people say that sound is the first thing they switch off.  You can say "yeah, but..." all you want, but what you think, and what I think, and what the standard individual punter thinks is pretty much irrelevant.  SI's actions speak volumes, and they haven't updated the sound in years.  They clearly don't deem it as important as the things they have worked on.  Which is their perogative.

Plus you lose some credibility points suggesting that it's "atmosphere" that makes the Premier League the most watched league in the world.  If that were the case it would be thoroughly mid-table I'd imagine - their incredible marketing has far more to do with them suggesting they've made the proverbial silk purse from a sow's ear.

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14 minutes ago, forameuss said:

And I would argue that it wouldn't.  It's all in personal preference.  Whenever this is brought up plenty of people say that sound is the first thing they switch off.  You can say "yeah, but..." all you want, but what you think, and what I think, and what the standard individual punter thinks is pretty much irrelevant.  SI's actions speak volumes, and they haven't updated the sound in years.  They clearly don't deem it as important as the things they have worked on.  Which is their perogative.

Plus you lose some credibility points suggesting that it's "atmosphere" that makes the Premier League the most watched league in the world.  If that were the case it would be thoroughly mid-table I'd imagine - their incredible marketing has far more to do with them suggesting they've made the proverbial silk purse from a sow's ear.

"You can say "yeah, but..." all you want, but what you think, and what I think, and what the standard individual punter thinks is pretty much irrelevant. " Please don't start a business with this attitude, saying suggestions from very long loyal customers is irrelevant... pls

 

As far as losing credibility points i wasn't aware it was a contest also the product has to be good before it can carry the marketing weight of the premier league and yes i would still argue that its the atmosphere that has made the league rise to the top, the fact most of the grounds are always full and the speed of the game here helps create the best atmoshpere of any other league to watch.

Edited by stoned_assasin

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Just now, stoned_assasin said:

"You can say "yeah, but..." all you want, but what you think, and what I think, and what the standard individual punter thinks is pretty much irrelevant. " Please don't start a business with this attitude, saying suggestions from very long loyal customers is irrelevant... pls

 

As far as losing credibility points i wasn't aware it was a contest also the product has to be good before it can carry the marketing weight of the premier league and yes i would still argue that its the atmosphere that has made the league rise to the top, the fact most of the grounds are always full and the speed of the game here helps create the best atoshpere of any other league to watch.

What one customer thinks in isolation won't - and shouldn't - drive their long-term vision for the game.  That overrides everything.  If they were to listen to what every customer wanted for the product, it would be a complete and utter mess.  It's not that hard to grasp.  They obviously take customer desires into account - more so no with a dedicated feature requests forum - but countless people want something to spend your wages on or to be a chairman, and they flat out refuse those.  

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9 minutes ago, forameuss said:

What one customer thinks in isolation won't - and shouldn't - drive their long-term vision for the game.  That overrides everything.  If they were to listen to what every customer wanted for the product, it would be a complete and utter mess.  It's not that hard to grasp.  They obviously take customer desires into account - more so no with a dedicated feature requests forum - but countless people want something to spend your wages on or to be a chairman, and they flat out refuse those.  

Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today or something? What one customer thinks?? Incase you failed to realise this is not even my thread and i have seen many more over the years like it or asking for direction to the old sound pack that many used to use till SI changed something with the sound code which broke it. Instead of trying to shoot at what i type maybe read it 1st its 2017 we really arent asking for much, imagine fifa with FM sounds im pretty sure many more people would turn the sounds off there too but because there is something decent to listen too it adds to the game. 

Edited by stoned_assasin

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For me its a massive part of the realism in the game that is being missed through laziness every year.

i'd much rather they fixed this first than create new features forgetting others.

 

 

 

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Forameuss doesn't filter from what I've seen so don't take it personally.

I agree that immersion is probably the most important reason to update the sound, it's a simulation experience and for my money anything that drags you out of that immersion and makes you realise you're actually sat in your pants at 3am with nothing but the light of the screen because you didn't realise and it wasn't night time the last time you noticed - is not a good thing.  So it is worthwhile and kinda kicks you in the balls a bit when you see the things they did choose to tweak or even introduce instead of brushing up what's already in the game and not pulling its weight.

It might also be valid to assume that a good number of those who choose to mute the sound do so for the very fact that it isn't very good.

Finally, the EPL does NOT have anywhere close to the best matchday atmosphere in the world. Sorry.

 

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On 10/24/2017 at 16:38, stoned_assasin said:

Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today or something? What one customer thinks?? Incase you failed to realise this is not even my thread and i have seen many more over the years like it or asking for direction to the old sound pack that many used to use till SI changed something with the sound code which broke it. Instead of trying to shoot at what i type maybe read it 1st its 2017 we really arent asking for much, imagine fifa with FM sounds im pretty sure many more people would turn the sounds off there too but because there is something decent to listen too it adds to the game. 

Forgot I hadn't replied to this.  I was well aware it wasn't your thread, but it's ironic you suggest I read what you wrote given you clearly don't understand what I'm saying.

I'll try and put it simply - SI have their vision of the game.  They seek feedback on that vision, but they're not going to listen to everything.  The sounds have not been updated in years.  Therefore, it's not a massive stretch to suggest that they don't deem sounds to be anywhere near as important as you do.  You may disagree with that, and that's fair enough.  I know plenty of people want the sounds to be improved.  I don't particularly, because it means they won't be working on something else (yes, people work on different modules, but that person is either brought in to work solely on sounds, in which case spending financial resources, or is taken away from something else and spending temporal resources).  But me not wanting it, or you wanting it, effectively doesn't matter given, I'll say it again, they don't seem to care very much about sound.

1 hour ago, borivoje213 said:

Forameuss doesn't filter from what I've seen so don't take it personally.

*shrug* I don't think defending developers from being called lazy by people who have no idea what they're talking about particularly bad.  If what I was saying was that bad, I imagine I'd be infracted for it.  But you're right, there's never anything personal (given it's a completely anonymous internet forum and all that), not my fault if people don't like others disagreeing with them.

 

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4 minutes ago, borivoje213 said:

:lol:

And I did like your last point, most definitely agree with you on that.

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Just now, forameuss said:

And I did like your last point, most definitely agree with you on that.

I've been living in Germany for the past 6 years watching Hannover.  The difference is unbelievable.  It's almost tribal.

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If you ask 100 people that play the game wether they would rather have realistic matchday atmosphere or in-game twitter, I would presume it would be 90 people in favour of realistic sounds. Can't imagine anyone likes the absolutely irrelevant in-game twitter feature.

Edited by luka_

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1 minute ago, borivoje213 said:

I've been living in Germany for the past 6 years watching Hannover.  The difference is unbelievable.  It's almost tribal.

I've attended one game in Germany, the traditional "ooh-it's-a-stag-do-in-Hamburg-let's-go-to-the-Millerntor" St Pauli trip.  Second tier game, and not really that important a game as far as I remember, but although I don't have a direct comparison to Premier League games, it's hard to imagine any Premier League coming close to the bedlam inside that stadium.  The small pocket of away fans made more noise than most.

Just now, luka_ said:

If you ask 100 people that play the game wether they would rather have realistic matchday atmosphere or in-game twitter, I would presume it would be 90 people in favour of realistic sounds. Can't imagine anyone likes the absolutely irrelevant in-game twitter option.

But that's picking out a pretty irrelevant feature and putting them in parallel.  You may as well say "would you rather have realistic sounds or a better ME?"  100% of people I imagine would choose the ME in that case.  The development process is a massive black box to anyone outside of SI, so you can't just pick two features and equate them in terms of effort.  And why has it become such a black box?  Because the devs withdrew from the forums due to the treatment, of which calling them lazy certainly comes under.  Ironic.

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5 minutes ago, luka_ said:

If you ask 100 people that play the game wether they would rather have realistic matchday atmosphere or in-game twitter, I would presume it would be 90 people in favour of realistic sounds. Can't imagine anyone likes the absolutely irrelevant in-game twitter feature.

yeah I don't get that either.  But then again I don't get twitter so that might contribute.

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On 24/10/2017 at 16:42, mbabbs said:

Programmatically its cant be difficult. If the stadium crowd is big then read the sound files from the big crowd folder etc

Making the sounds might be the issue. Or the size of the files maybe. Or they don't have the resources.

I'd appreciate better sounds too, especially as I play as a lowest-league manager with 'crowds' in double-digits.

 

However, if it's as easy as you say, why aren't there loads of fan-created files in the Editors' Hideaway, sortitoutsi etc etc?

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I would love better quality sounds to reflect the improvements in the game. Maybe we will get lucky this year..

It *could* be an issue with copyright, or licensing, why we haven't had new sounds. I don't know how it works, but surely they wouldn't just be allowed to turn up to a game and record the effects.

But sound is of the upmost importance to me. It adds so much ambience to a game. I beta tested a version of a military simulator which had what I would deem average sound effects. I found a third party sound effects pack and used that, and oh my, what a difference. It completely changed the feel of the game, and improved the atmosphere no end. It is literally a game changer.

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On ‎24‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 16:30, forameuss said:

but countless people want something to spend your wages on or to be a chairman, and they flat out refuse those.  

And rightly so. Given the time required to mess about creating a fantasy world outside of the club.

On topic: I have the sound set at a point where the euphoria of a goal is noticable, considering I've either got music playing or I'm bingeing on Sky/Netflix. Just enough volume to make a goal feel celebrated but inaudible over the TV otherwise.

Edited by LCpl

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12 hours ago, forameuss said:

I've attended one game in Germany, the traditional "ooh-it's-a-stag-do-in-Hamburg-let's-go-to-the-Millerntor" St Pauli trip.  Second tier game, and not really that important a game as far as I remember, but although I don't have a direct comparison to Premier League games, it's hard to imagine any Premier League coming close to the bedlam inside that stadium.  The small pocket of away fans made more noise than most.

But that's picking out a pretty irrelevant feature and putting them in parallel.  You may as well say "would you rather have realistic sounds or a better ME?"  100% of people I imagine would choose the ME in that case.  The development process is a massive black box to anyone outside of SI, so you can't just pick two features and equate them in terms of effort.  And why has it become such a black box?  Because the devs withdrew from the forums due to the treatment, of which calling them lazy certainly comes under.  Ironic.

Not to sound abusive or anything as i love Si and been a supporter since the very 1st days but in this area of the game ofc its lazy, you cant exactly say they put some real hard work into the sounds in the last 10-15 years now can we? A real good company will be able to take the good comments with the bad (nothing is perfect right, but the best of us strive to get there). As i said there is one guy that made the sound pack over 10 years ago till he disapeared then SI changed some code in the sound files which killed the mod and i assure you i WASN'T the only person to use it. Now if one un-payed guy could make a pretty decent sound pack over 10 years ago im sure with how fast technology moves it should be even easier to implement today.

 

Also compairing ME upgrades with social media? Dosn't the ME seem to get improved on with pretty much every new version with the game anyway? As this has become an essential part of the game where as social media is just an added bonus but if you ask me i would 100% say i would prefer better sound over social media and add that it would have much more impact in a football game than a twitter feed. Anyways im off too buy me FM18 and i wish SI the best of luck for their release.

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The sounds have annoyed me for years, and it should be a simple fix.

Crowd of 0-100, use sound file 1

Crowd of 101 - 500, use sound file 2

Crowd of 501 - 1500, use sound file 3

Crowd of 1501 - 5000, use sound file 4

Crowd of 5001 - 15000, use sound file 5

Crowd of 15001 - 30000, use sound file 6

Crowd of 30001+, use sound file 7

In my current game in FM17, in a game of my Bath City U23 vs Derby U23 friendly, it sounded like thousands were cheering. I think 100 people showed up for the game, and the stands were pretty much empty.

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On 10/26/2017 at 06:14, forameuss said:

I've attended one game in Germany, the traditional "ooh-it's-a-stag-do-in-Hamburg-let's-go-to-the-Millerntor" St Pauli trip.  Second tier game, and not really that important a game as far as I remember, but although I don't have a direct comparison to Premier League games, it's hard to imagine any Premier League coming close to the bedlam inside that stadium.  The small pocket of away fans made more noise than most.

But that's picking out a pretty irrelevant feature and putting them in parallel.  You may as well say "would you rather have realistic sounds or a better ME?"  100% of people I imagine would choose the ME in that case.  The development process is a massive black box to anyone outside of SI, so you can't just pick two features and equate them in terms of effort.  And why has it become such a black box?  Because the devs withdrew from the forums due to the treatment, of which calling them lazy certainly comes under.  Ironic.

I get your points forameuss, that SI has always been first and foremost about improving the actual gameplay. Be it through the ME, info screens, player interaction etc. But surely there comes a time where more focus can be put on "world building" and immersion? As many FM players are out there who revel in the text based, plain jane version of FM, there are just as many who are desperate for just a little more atmosphere. I also get the sense that there's a noticeable arrogance from players who prefer everything stock - no skins, no graphic packs, etc. You can tell they want to say that they're better FM fans for appreciating its true nature. I get the sense that you're in this boat...

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16 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

I get your points forameuss, that SI has always been first and foremost about improving the actual gameplay. Be it through the ME, info screens, player interaction etc. But surely there comes a time where more focus can be put on "world building" and immersion? As many FM players are out there who revel in the text based, plain jane version of FM, there are just as many who are desperate for just a little more atmosphere. I also get the sense that there's a noticeable arrogance from players who prefer everything stock - no skins, no graphic packs, etc. You can tell they want to say that they're better FM fans for appreciating its true nature. I get the sense that you're in this boat...

You started off so well, then decided to call me "arrogant" and make wild proclamations about how I play the game.  I routinely change the skin whenever a better one is available, mainly for the instant result but mostly because they look better.  If I end up managing in a league that isn't well licenced to the point it annoys me, I'll get graphics packs.  Probably doesn't fit your narrative though, does it?

So to help you out, absolutely no arrogance, because I have always said that I completely understand what other people want, like I completely understand that people want sounds.  The only arrogance appears to be from the other side, who can't seem to understand that other people may not care about the same features they do.  But I also stressed that it absolutely doesn't matter what any individual thinks or desires, if that goes against the wishes of SI.  At some point SI might decide that it's a high enough priority to work on, but that day clearly hasn't arrived.  I mean, they've barely worked on press conferences, and that's a far more pervasive feature than sounds.  They only have so much time.

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Some of you guys need to join a decent FM community. I have good sound and audio commentary running fine on FM2018,it's vastly superior to the default. I was partly responsible for developing the package. I suggest you head over to my FM group at DazS8 FM Graphics on Facebook,where you'll find most of the answers to questions posed on these pages.

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For anyone still interested, I just installed the old FM16 commentary/audio pack for FM18 thanks to someone over on FM Scout providing the instructions for the FM18 directory:

 
Quote

 

I got this to work with no issues at all although it is not as straightforward anymore as in previous versions, this is how to get it working in Football Manager 2018:

1) Copy "match_events.xml" and "match_sounds.cfg" from the commentary patch to your installation folder: "Football Manager 2018\data\simatch\events"

2) a) Use the "resource archiver" and unpack the file "simatchviewer.fmf" which can be found in "Football Manager 2018\data".

b) Save the files in a separate directory.

c) Delete the contents of the "sounds" folder and replace it with the sounds in the commentary patch. (Important: make sure there are no subfolders, the sound files need to be put directly in the "sounds" folder, otherwise the sounds won't play).

d) Use the "resource archiver" to create a new "simatchviewer.fmf" file from the changed folder with "sounds" folder replaced with the commentary contents in it.

e) Move the "simatchviewer.fmf" file to the installation folder: "Football Manager 2018\data" and replace the existing file.

Reload the cache and play your Football Manager 2018 game with live commentary again!

I tested this and works already for weeks without any issues.



ALWAYS make a backup of you original files in case something goes wrong or you want to revert back to the original sounds

 


I deleted all of the PES commentary files (the ones in all higher case) before I installed it though and it makes for a MUCH better match experience, even if there are a couple of slight hiccups (i.e. your point of home/away fans sounding the same when goals are scored).

I'd like to see some code in there in future games for club-specific chants (which can be modded), frequency/volume of crowd noise depending on the passion/loyalty of the club's fanbase, and of course away fans not sounding as "packed" as the home fans are.

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Could the stadium graphics be improved (especially smaller sub-10000 capacity)? Yes

Am I bothered about it ? No

 

Could the sounds be better? Yes

Am I bothered? No

There's plenty in the game that could be better, but really, a modicum of imagination and a touch of suspension of disbelief and it's all good.

 

I tried a fan-made sound alternative, but, in the end, got more annoyed at hearing 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' at every game and the most ridiculous sounding tannoy announcement near the end of each half so uninstalled it.

 

Yes there are licensing/copyright issues around fan chants, yes, i think SI could do better than an 'Ole' chant every so often but does it really affect my immersion in the game? No, I use my imagination to play a computer simulation - go figure.

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7 hours ago, Snorks said:

Could the stadium graphics be improved (especially smaller sub-10000 capacity)? Yes

Am I bothered about it ? No

 

Could the sounds be better? Yes

Am I bothered? No

There's plenty in the game that could be better, but really, a modicum of imagination and a touch of suspension of disbelief and it's all good.

 

I tried a fan-made sound alternative, but, in the end, got more annoyed at hearing 'I'm forever blowing bubbles' at every game and the most ridiculous sounding tannoy announcement near the end of each half so uninstalled it.

 

Yes there are licensing/copyright issues around fan chants, yes, i think SI could do better than an 'Ole' chant every so often but does it really affect my immersion in the game? No, I use my imagination to play a computer simulation - go figure.

I should have clarified I didn't mean put real fan chants in as I know there are licensing issues and all that. Something that is more of a muffled sound if must be, just so that the file or code (whatever is needed) is there for each club to have something specific and it can then be modded for something real.

You could apply the same method to fans cheering when a goal is scored (England for example is different to Spain etc), and then a lot of clubs in England have songs play when they score so there is a lot of room for new stuff with the match sounds. My point was put fake bases in there so we can mod them for real sounds.

By the way if there are sounds you don't like you can delete them or replace them and the game still runs fine. I deleted all of the Peter Brackley and Trevor Brooking commentary from PES as the delivery was terrible.

Edited by Carlito85

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22 hours ago, Carlito85 said:

For anyone still interested, I just installed the old FM16 commentary/audio pack for FM18 thanks to someone over on FM Scout providing the instructions for the FM18 directory:

 

I deleted all of the PES commentary files (the ones in all higher case) before I installed it though and it makes for a MUCH better match experience, even if there are a couple of slight hiccups (i.e. your point of home/away fans sounding the same when goals are scored).

I'd like to see some code in there in future games for club-specific chants (which can be modded), frequency/volume of crowd noise depending on the passion/loyalty of the club's fanbase, and of course away fans not sounding as "packed" as the home fans are.

You shouldn't need to bother with messing around with the simatchviewer.fmf file in step 2, instead you should just be able to put the actual sound files in the sounds folder found inside your User Data Location (the FM folder in the My Docs folder by default) as that would stop any chance of the game overwriting your files if it gets patched again.

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1 hour ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

You shouldn't need to bother with messing around with the simatchviewer.fmf file in step 2, instead you should just be able to put the actual sound files in the sounds folder found inside your User Data Location (the FM folder in the My Docs folder by default) as that would stop any chance of the game overwriting your files if it gets patched again.

I tried putting them in the sounds folder initially but it didn't work. As soon as I did the simatchviewer method it worked. I'll make sure to make a backup of it though just in case a patch does overwrite it. Cheers for the heads up.

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actually a very good Chants / Sounds / Atmosphare Patch possibly to use in 3d match Game ?

Edited by SpiderJu

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