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How many of you still use 2D Classic?

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4 minutes ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

If you pin them the pitch stops at them instead of going behind;

capture_001_30102017_170702.thumb.png.f79a8d2e2b359fffddcd63cbebd6b416.png

 

This makes it look so much better :thup:

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It appears camera height and camera zoom is disabled in the 2D view.  It would great to be able to zoom in such that I can maximize the pitch size when pinning widgets.

2017_10_30_1312.png

Also note that pinning affects the view between match highlights.  I'm not sure you need that.


2017_10_30_1314.png

 

 

 

Edited by Columnarius

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2 minutes ago, Columnarius said:

It appears camera height and camera zoom is disabled in the 2D view.  It would great to be able to zoom in such that I can maximize the pitch size when pinning widgets.
 

Zoom for 2-D is already announced for a beta update coming soon.

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Good to hear.

Another suggestion: Allow disabling of the moving signboards.  Either allow a config option to stop them from scrolling / moving or allow an option to remove them entirely.  I don't find they add a lot in the 2d view and they become distracting as they move around.

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7 hours ago, macca72 said:

Get rid of the stadium view on the new 2d and make the dots bigger (and the ball more visible).

 

100% this. 

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So glad that SI have taken this decision. I think its best for the future and fully expect that the 3D match engine evolves in leaps and bounds  

It reminds me of when sliders were taken out. To those used to a certain way of playing it was supposed to spell the end but for the rest of us it made sense to use logical instructions. 

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Guest El Payaso
5 hours ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

If you pin them the pitch stops at them instead of going behind;

I don't seem to have that option to pin stuff. Maybe because I'm on windowed mode?

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We've released a hotfix which has addressed a couple of the issues raised with the 2D view:

 

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What a difference this has made, excellent work with this update, well done chaps. 

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9 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

I don't seem to have that option to pin stuff. Maybe because I'm on windowed mode?

Shouldn't be a windowed mode problem as I play in Windowed mode (could be a resolution or other bug). To pin them you need to drag the widgets and you'll get an icon in the corner of the screens like in the below screenshot:

1.thumb.jpg.d36093aaeaa51d3e23facc2623d810ff.jpg

Then drag the widget to the icon you want and a red box should appear;

2.thumb.jpg.891a7571b69baeac7a0694b5341ab4e5.jpg

Let go of the widget and it should be docked;

3.thumb.jpg.d716131b0ae12a62e33d34c634dd6af1.jpg

If you then pin it the pitch will then stop at the widget;

capture_001_30102017_170702.thumb.png.f79a8d2e2b359fffddcd63cbebd6b416.png

You can also use the dropdown menu next to the pin to move it to another side and the other icon will shrink/expand the dock if you don't want the widgets always showing.

You can also drag more widgets into the dock, so you can have the scores widget below the stats for example.

You can also dock another widget on a different side but it's a bit awkward (not sure if it a proper feature or not?) - first you need to close that widget by clicking the X then open the widget you want displayed in another dock and repeat the above instructions to dock and pin the new widget, once that is done reopen the first widget and you should have two pinned widget areas.

You can also resize the pinned area by dragging the border of the pinned area, you can also resize the widgets.

So once the bugs are ironed out it should offer a lot more flexibility than the old system (and will hopefully be moddable by skinners once we can extract the game files on full release)

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My eyes just can't adjust to this new 2D update. It looks like an arcade game.

 

The goals are tiny and the keeper dot takes up most of it.

Everything looks too close together 

Is there a way to revert an update?

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Hi Neil,

Thanks for the explanation and the hot fix 

The only thing I´m not understanding is why you get rid of the stadium structure in the 2d view. 

I think overall the 2d this year is better than fm17 but the lack of stadium structure harms the inmersion

The grey area around the pitch is awful and no inmersive at all

 

2d view 2017.png

2d view 2018.jpg

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2 minutes ago, juanchisanz said:

Hi Neil,

Thanks for the explanation and the hot fix 

The only thing I´m not understanding is why you get rid of the stadium structure in the 2d view. 

I think overall the 2d this year is better than fm17 but the lack of stadium structure harms the inmersion

The grey area around the pitch is awful and no inmersive at all

 

2d view 2017.png

2d view 2018.jpg

No problem and it's a completely fair question to raise.

Like you, I also like the stadiums in view, however the reason we opted for a hybrid of the two is actually for performance reasons.

To render the stadiums and crowd to always be in view is quite expensive and intensive on both CPU and GPU and we wanted this experience to be as optimal as possible, at least for this first implementation of our new graphics engine.

When you watch the match in a 3d camera view, not all of the crowd and stadia are in view at all times, and we use some clever techniques to draw and utilise what's on screen and in view to maintain performance in those versions. There are also other techniques like this that are reduced dramatically or turned off in this top down view to increase performance.

The grey area around the pitch was extended to ensure the background was hidden, which actually looks worse than the grey. I agree that perhaps either of those solutions are not ideal, but this area of space is different depending on each persons screen resolution.

While I don't want to make any promises, it's possible we will bring stadiums back in a future version and as the graphics engine matures, but it's unlikely for this version I'm afraid.

 

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That's must better for me!Now the thing to be fixed i think is for the name bar under the dots to be without the bar, which hides a lot of space under it and you cannot see properly much of the action,
or an ability to change the way the name is shown under the dot. ( perhaps by showing only the name, and not the whole grey bar)

Edited by asapas

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8 minutes ago, asapas said:

That's must better for me!Now the thing to be fixed i think is for the name bar under the dots to be without the bar, which hides a lot of space under it and you cannot see properly much of the action,
or an ability to change the way the name is shown under the dot. ( perhaps by showing only the name, and not the whole grey bar)

The option to do this is currently not working in the Pre-Release Beta build, but it has been fixed internally and will be in time for Release.

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17 hours ago, Columnarius said:

It appears camera height and camera zoom is disabled in the 2D view.  It would great to be able to zoom in such that I can maximize the pitch size when pinning widgets.

2017_10_30_1312.png

Also note that pinning affects the view between match highlights.  I'm not sure you need that.


2017_10_30_1314.png

 

 

 

I'd love to see the pinned information shown in the blank area in between highlights.

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Why would someone that uses the 2D view (which is known for its simplicity, and efficient performance) want to have the stadium in view?? That's just off

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2 hours ago, Neil Dejyothin said:

No problem and it's a completely fair question to raise.

Like you, I also like the stadiums in view, however the reason we opted for a hybrid of the two is actually for performance reasons.

To render the stadiums and crowd to always be in view is quite expensive and intensive on both CPU and GPU and we wanted this experience to be as optimal as possible, at least for this first implementation of our new graphics engine.

When you watch the match in a 3d camera view, not all of the crowd and stadia are in view at all times, and we use some clever techniques to draw and utilise what's on screen and in view to maintain performance in those versions. There are also other techniques like this that are reduced dramatically or turned off in this top down view to increase performance.

The grey area around the pitch was extended to ensure the background was hidden, which actually looks worse than the grey. I agree that perhaps either of those solutions are not ideal, but this area of space is different depending on each persons screen resolution.

While I don't want to make any promises, it's possible we will bring stadiums back in a future version and as the graphics engine matures, but it's unlikely for this version I'm afraid.

 

Fair enough

I don´t like this change but at least there is a reason for removing it.

anyway ,is there any option to put something less lame that this grey panel?

I assume that´s just a grey background to cover uglier things as you were saying.

Why not use a better backround image ( just the shape of a stadium, even if always the same or a template of the grounds)

Thanks anyway for the answer :)

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19 minutes ago, samuelawachie said:

Why would someone that uses the 2D view (which is known for its simplicity, and efficient performance) want to have the stadium in view?? That's just off

I use 2d because IMHO 3d is not good enough and even if it´s improving every year it does not give me what I want in terms of realism and immersion.

With 2d view, like is much much simplier you just fill the gaps with your imagination and is much more inmersive

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Was loving the new zoomed 2D view until one game the pitch got darker and the pitch lines became blue instead of white and now it's like that for every game. 

At least I got about 3 matches of perfection, it's something I suppose...

Edited by Dagenham_Dave

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5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Was loving the new zoomed 2D view until one game the pitch got darker and the pitch lines became blue instead of white and now it's like that for every game. 

At least I got about 3 matches of perfection, it's something I suppose...

Deleting the cache could fix that.

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I know how to clear the cache in preferences, which doesn't fix it, but I have no idea how to 'delete' the cache, or are you referring to the same thing? 

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Is it only me who have this problem, but is the match engine laging? It Always stops between highlights.

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Did use 2D classic in FM 17 a lot with 3D behind goal for replays.

HATE the new 2D version - Miles was right no-one would be using 2D anymore.  Not because 3D is so much better to watch (stadium lighting and being able to see the ball anyone?) but because the 2D has been 'improved' to be worse - common SI approach  lol (played every single edition of FM so not said just for the hell of it).

But heard the hotfix does tweak the 2D so looking forward to that. :)

love, love, love Football Manager, not a fan of seeing what is made worse each year.  Do the improvements outweigh the backwards steps in FM18?  Not sure yet. Several smaller irritants are still in place. 

SEEN HOTFIX

Thank you SI for listening to us gamers on this.  Liking the zoom function. 

 

Would be nice to be able to move the pitch left-right at times so that the stat pop-ups can always be accommodated as the player wants. 

Thanks though :)

Edited by Mark.Alexander
Seen Hotfix

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22 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

We've released a hotfix which has addressed a couple of the issues raised with the 2D view:

 

Zoom helps a lot.

image.thumb.png.b7aa010dcd3b55da47e9f94e56e2cbd4.png

 

If there are any opportunities to optimize what portion of the stadium you render based on zoom, I suspect you can free up resources for those of us who zoom all the way in like this screeenshot.

I still believe it would be useful to remove / freeze the sign boards in this view.

Thanks for the quick turn around on the feedback!

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Are we going to get the actual classic 2d view back on full release? I really, really dislike this new 2d they are trying to call classic 2d.

Edited by oulzac

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11 minutes ago, oulzac said:

Are we going to get the actual classic 2d view back on full release? I really, really dislike this new 2d they are trying to call classic 2d.

It's much more like 2D classic now since the update. 

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13 minutes ago, oulzac said:

Are we going to get the actual classic 2d view back on full release? I really, really dislike this new 2d they are trying to call classic 2d.

I believe they have already explained why they had to take out the classic 2d view and why it won't be coming back.

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5 minutes ago, Columnarius said:

I believe they have already explained why they had to take out the classic 2d view and why it won't be coming back.

Where was this?

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Guest El Payaso
On 30.10.2017 at 19:38, michaeltmurrayuk said:

 

Thank you for this @michaeltmurrayuk. Got it look much better with these instructions. :thup:

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1 hour ago, oulzac said:

Where was this?

Somewhere in page 3 iirc. It has to do with CPU resources. I'm a big 2D classic fan but if this the reason why they changed, I accept it. I just hope the new 2D view will continue to be improved because many players still prefer it.

I also know they mention that 90% of players use 3D and that they gathered this information from the game data. But if we dive deeper into the people that really put in the hours I believe that a lot more than 10% of the hardcore players use the 2D view.

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I find 2D less stressful to watch. Much of the time in 3D I'm left scratching my head as to why the players are acting as they do. 2D makes it easier to make excuses for the times the ME goes haywire. The slow, on the spot, revolving of players in 2D continues to do my head in - it's been years and yet it's still in the game.

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If you guys are going to make us put up with this inferior 2D mode, can you at least bring back the ability to turn off stuff.  I couldn't care less about ad boards and I find it annoying I have to look at them in 2D. Also the 3D ball in 2D needs to go. Like as soon as possible. That thing drives me up a wall. I don't care what direction its spinning in or how cool of an effect you can make to show how high its been kicked off the pitch. Its annoying.

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5 hours ago, oulzac said:

If you guys are going to make us put up with this inferior 2D mode, can you at least bring back the ability to turn off stuff.  I couldn't care less about ad boards and I find it annoying I have to look at them in 2D. Also the 3D ball in 2D needs to go. Like as soon as possible. That thing drives me up a wall. I don't care what direction its spinning in or how cool of an effect you can make to show how high its been kicked off the pitch. Its annoying.

I have a feeling there won't be an option to be turn off ad boards. The sponsors wouldn't be happy.

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On 27/10/2017 at 15:45, Neil Brock said:

We've already made improvements to this so this will look better by the time we have the full release. Thanks.

Really hope this is the case! I'm a long time fan/buyer of FM and i'm really not ready for the 3D viewer yet. Don't get me wrong, it's the right direction for the game, but it's still evolving. To do away with (the original) 2D classic is really disappointing at this stage.

Current 2D viewer, with the little black feet, looks like a backward step on previous installments.

Bought the beta, but think i'll wait for the improvements on full release.

Everything else looks excellent, polished and in depth (as always).

 

Edited by Majesticc

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On 10/22/2017 at 16:28, NotMyCat said:

Any other managers out there stick with the old 2D Classic match view by choice rather than spec issues? I watch the replays in 2D too, can't be just me.

 

When the 3D was introduced, I tried it for one match only, decided it was not worth it and went back to 2D. I've done the exact same thing for every version since then (whenever that was), including FM2017, where the 3D was still nowhere near worth watching (not a criticism of the game itself, mind you). And I still thoroughly enjoyed the 2D.

 

So, there's no more classic 2D in FM18? I was uncertain about the game anyway, but that surely settles it, then.

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When in March you view tactics underneath you can see the match still being played. On 2D this enlarges the pitch and dots to the perfect size! I wish it was possible to have that view of 2D classic without having to be in the tactics screen. 

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16 minutes ago, mdshep said:

When in March you view tactics underneath you can see the match still being played. On 2D this enlarges the pitch and dots to the perfect size! I wish it was possible to have that view of 2D classic without having to be in the tactics screen. 

Pitch shouldn't change size when going to the tactics screen, you sure you aren't accidentally zooming in with the mouse wheel whilst in the tactics screen?

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1 hour ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

Pitch shouldn't change size when going to the tactics screen, you sure you aren't accidentally zooming in with the mouse wheel whilst in the tactics screen?

I'm sure. I have the pitch smaller with the match stats pinned to the right as the picture shows. The 2d pitch under the tactics is bigger than even you can zoom - it takes up more of the screen.

Screen Shot 2017-11-02 at 21.09.12.png

Screen Shot 2017-11-02 at 21.09.21.png

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2 hours ago, mdshep said:

I'm sure. I have the pitch smaller with the match stats pinned to the right as the picture shows. The 2d pitch under the tactics is bigger than even you can zoom - it takes up more of the screen.

The difference will be because the Widgets are hidden when you are on the tactics screen so it's using the full screen against two thirds when showing the match. Though it looks like having a pinned widget affects how much you can zoom the pitch (possibly because the aspect ratio of the pitch area changes) so it might be worth raising the issue in the bugs forum.

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Yo.

Is the 2D Classic on the revised beta the final version we will see when the game drops on the 10th, only I reckon it looks a bit goofy... a bit clumsy. Admittedly the first iteration of FM18 beta's 2d classic was a bit small and took a while to get used to, but this one with it's super large dots and really big feet, well, really takes away from the game - especially if you prefer, like I do, to play exclusively in 2D. Is there any chance that they'll revise the experience and deliver something closer to the 2D classic from FM17, which had better style and perfectly good playability.

Also, do different users have different iterations of the 2D classic, only I've seen some YouTube videos (namely in the DoctorBenjy FM Arsenal series) and there appears to be marked differences between his 2D classic mode and the one I have on my beta - flashy advertising boards; less vibrant and more realistic colours; and smaller, better player icons akin to FM17 (for example, the goalkeeper and players are better proportioned compared to the goal) are some of the differences I've noticed. I much prefer the style of 2D classic in the videos compared with that in my game.

 

 

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9 hours ago, michaeltmurrayuk said:

No 2D Classic is still in the game (with some tweaks) it's the other 2D view that has been removed from the game.

Incorrect. 2D Classic was removed. The other 2D mode has been relabeled as 2D Classic. This is the exact 2D mode from FM17 that was labeled 2D. It is not 2D Classic with some tweaks. Not even close. Its why so many of us are so upset about it. We were the ones that strictly used 2D Classic, and now its just gone. And this other 2D mode is kind of straight up garbage.

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Just had a look at 2D mode in FM17 (for the first time - I only used classic) and it doesn't really look like FM18 beta's 2D classic; it's got a stadium - much like the screenshot juanchisanz posted on the last page. I do know what oulzac is talking about, though - I do remember an earlier edition of FM having a mode labelled "2D" which looked like the 2D classic in the FM18 beta - with really large clumsy looking player icons. I didn't like it then either...

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3 hours ago, elfaygo7 said:

Also, do different users have different iterations of the 2D classic, only I've seen some YouTube videos (namely in the DoctorBenjy FM Arsenal series) and there appears to be marked differences between his 2D classic mode and the one I have on my beta - flashy advertising boards; less vibrant and more realistic colours; and smaller, better player icons akin to FM17 (for example, the goalkeeper and players are better proportioned compared to the goal) are some of the differences I've noticed. I much prefer the style of 2D classic in the videos compared with that in my game.

 

That could be to do with your own computer screen's  resolution. Also, try changing the graphics settings in game. The flashing ad-boards kick in at 'high' upwards for graphics. No-one has a 'different iteration' of the 2D than anyone else. 

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