Regen Faces | Manager Photo | FM18

[McClane29]

I know it's still early amidst a few feature reveals, but has anyone seen or heard any evidence to suggest that FM18 will have sorted out the generated faces of regens from last year?

In previous years, regens were never really a problem. However, with virtually every regen entering the game with orange eyes or a massive forehead, it just made the game unplayable in the long-run. I never understood why SI thought there was a need to meddle with the graphics for regens and then never bother to correct the issue through a patch.

I've read that one of the FM community's biggest graphical contributors will stop creating various graphics for the forthcoming release if the likes of regen faces are not corrected this year. Therefore, I sincerely hope FM18 is not loaded with the same graphical rubbish for regens. I also hope we are able to upload our own personal manager photo once more and that female regens can have faces, one way or another.

[ParanoidBuddha]

THose faces traumatised my existence

[Spedding]

Seen miles in a tweet say manager photo isnt in

[McClane29]

14 minutes ago, Spedding said:

Seen miles in a tweet say manager photo isnt in

What?! Miles can't be serious.

Can you direct me to the Tweet where he said this please?

[KUBI]

[Spedding]

17 minutes ago, McClane29 said:

What?! Miles can't be serious.

Can you direct me to the Tweet where he said this please?

it was in a response asking the same question in the last week or two

[CFuller]

I share the OP’s concerns about newgen faces, as I have stated in another thread. I wouldn’t go so far as to say that newgen faces made FM17 “unplayable”, but they were certainly off-putting. Compared to previous FMs, it was a massive step down.

If faces aren’t improved in FM18, it might not put me off buying the game completely, though I would be rather less interested.

I would also like to see female newgen faces (and more female newgen staff, for that matter) in future FMs, so long as they’re not as hideous as some of FM17’s man-lizards.

[McClane29]

In regard to the manager photo, I simply cannot understand how SI can continue to defend its absence. The generated face has absolutely no use whatsoever and is a ridiculous substitute for a real picture of yourself. They received a ton of negative feedback to the absence of the manager photo at the release of FM17, so they have had plenty of time to provide us with the option to choose between generated face or a photograph.

I'm starting to fear the worst or FM18 already.

[KUBI]

6 minutes ago, McClane29 said:

In regard to the manager photo, I simply cannot understand how SI can continue to defend its absence. The generated face has absolutely no use whatsoever and is a ridiculous substitute for a real picture of yourself. They received a ton of negative feedback to the absence of the manager photo at the release of FM17, so they have had plenty of time to provide us with the option to choose between generated face or a photograph.

I'm starting to fear the worst or FM18 already.

It's simply because managers are now 3-D in the game and you can't apply a 2-D picture to it, you need to generate a 3-D.

[CFuller]

If you watch matches in 3D, your manager will appear in the technical area beside the pitch. In that sense, I don’t understand why you can say it has “absolutely no use whatsoever” in comparison to a plain 2D picture.

[McClane29]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

It's simply because managers are now 3-D in the game and you can't apply a 2-D picture to it, you need to generate a 3-D.

3D? As in the 3D we saw in the FM17 startup screen when you first loaded the game, then was not featured in any other area of the game?

Does the 3D manager now have more input in the game?

[McClane29]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

If you watch matches in 3D, your manager will appear in the technical area beside the pitch. In that sense, I don’t understand why you can say it has “absolutely no use whatsoever” in comparison to a plain 2D picture.

I prefer to play matches in 2D.

If your 3D manager is in the dugout, does the camera do close-ups like it would on TV? Otherwise, I hardly see how your 3D manager from a distance is adding anything.

[Spedding]

1 minute ago, McClane29 said:

3D? As in the 3D we saw in the FM17 startup screen when you first loaded the game, then was not featured in any other area of the game?

Does the 3D manager now have more input in the game?

as in the bloke stood in the technical area when watching a match in 3d

[McClane29]

47 minutes ago, KUBI said:

So what about the fans who use 2D/Text and don't view matches in 3D?

Some people cannot play the game in 3D due to computer specs or like me, simply does not like the 3D match engine.

Feels like a massive two-fingers up to the players who want to continue playing the game in the way they have for many years and don't/can't change.

[Sussex Hammer]

Has anyone ever seen the 3d face for the manager up close actually in the game>?  Don't think I have ever really noticed the manager full stop let alone up close!!  I can understand that a 2d photo doesn't look good on 3d bodies but that doesn't affect the far more regular situation of your face appearing in news items such as the picture below.  That's where a real photo is far more realistic, especially when face packs are used, otherwise the only non real faces in the game are regens and you!!  Why both can't be used is beyond me, a 3d image for an image of a manager you can only see through binoculars and a real photo for your Club pages and news items. That would keep everyone happy.

BTW The monstrosity in this screenshot even though created by the use of a photo looks absolutely nothing like me hence why I can't understand what it actually brings to the game.

 

[McClane29]

6 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Has anyone ever seen the 3d face for the manager up close actually in the game>?  Don't think I have ever really noticed the manager full stop let alone up close!!  I can understand that a 2d photo doesn't look good on 3d bodies but that doesn't affect the far more regular situation of your face appearing in news items such as the picture below.  That's where a real photo is far more realistic, especially when face packs are used, otherwise the only non real faces in the game are regens and you!!  Why both can't be used is beyond me, a 3d image for an image of a manager you can only see through binoculars and a real photo for your Club pages and news items. That would keep everyone happy.

 

 

10/10

Perfect answer. Why can nobody from SI understand this?

You spend most of your time playing the game in your news inbox. The screenshot above shows exactly why the generated manager photo looks ridiculous. I would bet good money that people care more about having their real photo in the game, than having a generated character of themselves in the dugout during a match.

[CFuller]

There is no perfect answer. What about those users (like me) who use cutout facepacks? Wouldn’t having a 2D photo of your manager look out of place amongst those faces?

[Sussex Hammer]

BTW That monstrosity in that screenshot even though created by the use of a photo looks absolutely nothing like me so no idea what it actually brings to the game.  Miles says that "2d photos don't look good on 3d bodies" which is fine but at the same time computer generated pictures don't look as good as real life photos in the news/club feed of the game.

[McClane29]

35 minutes ago, CFuller said:

There is no perfect answer. What about those users (like me) who use cutout facepacks? Wouldn’t having a 2D photo of your manager look out of place amongst those faces?

I use the cutout facepacks too and cutout my own face using photoshop. I know many other people do this too. 

Admittedly SI will never please everyone, but I am just baffled and massively annoyed that they are choosing the side of the fence which so few people care about. The logic behind it seems ridiculous.

[NotMyCat]

I did tweet Miles asking this but had no reply. Anyone else done this and had anything back? I really hope it's fixed as the amount of 16 year olds with mohawks, jaws so sharp they could cut you, premature baldness and 1000 yard stares is a little off putting.

I know FaceGen isn't their system so it's not really their call to update it, but you'd hope as one of the most widespread users of the system that FaceGen would want to do a better job representing their product.

[Artin]

i always love getting a balding 17-year old regen

[Swindon69]

I just hope that all the regens don't have eyes that make them look like they've popped in from the Children of the Corn.

[Ruh Roh]

I don't care at all about the manager faces - I hardly have to look at them, and honestly, last year my guy looked really good? 

I care about the regen faces because I have to look at them all the time. Not only did they make them so much worse in FM17 but they didn't listen at all to the complaints people were making before that: the hairstyles were still extremely limited, half the 17-year-olds were balding etc.

FM17 regen faces were so bad - if they can't go back to the old way (lost the contract with the old company or whatever), can we just have something like the old "face in the game" system with each other's manager faces? Especially if they're all uploaded somewhere. My face is ready to be reincarnated into a Brentford left back.

[Sussex Hammer]

4 hours ago, McClane29 said:

10/10

Perfect answer. Why can nobody from SI understand this?

You spend most of your time playing the game in your news inbox. The screenshot above shows exactly why the generated manager photo looks ridiculous. I would bet good money that people care more about having their real photo in the game, than having a generated character of themselves in the dugout during a match.

Absolutely bang on.  It might sound silly to some but when you have won the League or a Cup it was nice when your name with your own picture flashed up in the inbox news screen.  It had a personal feel to it, "you" had won a trophy.  I have won a few in this years incarnation but now what gets flashed up is that computerised image which for me takes that personal feeling away.  Now it feels like I have won a trophy being in control of a CGI Manager. 

The really bizarre illogic behind taking it away is that FM strives each year to be "more" realistic than the previous year and the "one" feature that they didn't have to make more realistic was someone using their own personal photo because that WAS you so by taking away that option realism on that side of things has gone backwards.

As I said above I really don't know why you can't have both, CGI for in match and a photo for inbox news etc.

As for the regen faces the first time I played FM17 I thought I had loaded COD Zombies by accident!!!

 

[WeegieFM]

Newgen faces were absolutely horrendous last year. Not a single screenshot of an FM18 Newgen so far so no doubt very little works went into them.

[CFuller]

11 minutes ago, WeegieFM said:

Newgen faces were absolutely horrendous last year. Not a single screenshot of an FM18 Newgen so far so no doubt very little works went into them.

Just because we’ve seen no screenshots or videos of FM18 newgens does not necessarily mean that nothing’s been done on this front. We’ll just have to wait until the beta comes out to discover for ourselves.

[Pompey1978]

re: 3D manager face... shortly after I got FM17 my wife walked past the screen when I had my generated-from-a-photo 3D manager face on the screen and said, "That looks just like you, how did they do that?!"... so for me I always felt it was fine as a replacement for the photo.

That said, horses for courses, and I think it would be reasonable to supply both options for people to use.

[McClane29]

3 hours ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Absolutely bang on.  It might sound silly to some but when you have won the League or a Cup it was nice when your name with your own picture flashed up in the inbox news screen.  It had a personal feel to it, "you" had won a trophy.  I have won a few in this years incarnation but now what gets flashed up is that computerised image which for me takes that personal feeling away.  Now it feels like I have won a trophy being in control of a CGI Manager. 

The really bizarre illogic behind taking it away is that FM strives each year to be "more" realistic than the previous year and the "one" feature that they didn't have to make more realistic was someone using their own personal photo because that WAS you so by taking away that option realism on that side of things has gone backwards.

As I said above I really don't know why you can't have both, CGI for in match and a photo for inbox news etc.

As for the regen faces the first time I played FM17 I thought I had loaded COD Zombies by accident!!!

 

I couldn't agree more that the loss of the 'manager photo facility' has hampered the personal feel you get from the game now. I appreciate not everyone will agree with this, but seeing that picture of yourself pop-up in relation to a news item, made it feel that little bit more real for me. The generated image did resemble me somewhat in FM17, but only loosely and at the end of the day, it wasn't me.

As for the regens in FM17, yeah, they would only have been appropriate around Halloween. Seriously, they would give kids nightmares with the way they looked. If the manager photo is lost, FM18 better have sorted out the regen faces, otherwise I'll be seeking a refund one way or another.

[KUBI]

You really should try the 3-D image generating  with a good portrait picture of yourself.  I tried it with various and random pictures and it works well if you set the points right.

[JordanMilly]

16 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You really should try the 3-D image generating  with a good portrait picture of yourself.  I tried it with various and random pictures and it works well if you set the points right.

Same, ended up with a model that looked almost exactly like me.

[McClane29]

15 minutes ago, KUBI said:

You really should try the 3-D image generating  with a good portrait picture of yourself.  I tried it with various and random pictures and it works well if you set the points right.

I have (had no other option) and I do somewhat agree. If you use a clear, front facing portrait picture, you can generate a character who does resemble yourself to an extent. However, the point remains to be, why am I using an animated image that slightly resembles myself in a weird way, when I could [prior to FM17] be using an actual image of myself?

The 3D manager in the dugout is irrelevant! It can hardly be seen and won't be at all for people who are using the 2D match engine.

What I would like to know from SI considering the absence of the manager photo facility and the dodgy regen faces were brought to their attention in the forums at the release of FM17, did SI simply acknowledge this feedback and dismiss it? What is the point of this community if SI aren't listening?

[BossPenguin]

11 hours ago, KUBI said:

My biggest problem with this statement is the fact plenty of managers and players from licensed teams have 2d photo's. Is Miles suggesting that Marco Silva and the Watfrod team are going to look ludicrous in game because they have real faces?

No, because literally the only place this appears that it would be problematic is before you even load your save.

[isignedupfornorealreason]

1 hour ago, KUBI said:

You really should try the 3-D image generating  with a good portrait picture of yourself.  I tried it with various and random pictures and it works well if you set the points right.

 

I tried and I came out looking like an orange.

 

I got another one and it came out somewhat purple.

 

I carried on and pretended I was from Mars. No one batted an eyelid. Was hilarious.

[Sussex Hammer]

2 hours ago, KUBI said:

You really should try the 3-D image generating  with a good portrait picture of yourself.  I tried it with various and random pictures and it works well if you set the points right.

I have done several times and one had certain similarities but it's still a computer graphic which looks very odd against 1000's of real photos..  I like old movies when they created a tidal wave by pouring lots of water over real people, rather than creating one through CGI!!! CGI no matter how good it is still looks fake and so no matter how good the computerised face looks in the game it will always look fake and never be as good as a photo.  The only way it will blend in is if it became impossible to use real pictures from face packs and all players real and generated will have computerised facial images and the way it's going I wouldn't be surprised if that isn't far off.

[podunkboy]

last year I gave up on a believable 3D model of myself, so  I started loading in pics of Jared Leto's "Joker", Harambe, Jimmy Buffett and Jar Jar Binks. They all look the same from the in-match screen. 

[Sheep]

15 hours ago, KUBI said:

It's simply because managers are now 3-D in the game and you can't apply a 2-D picture to it, you need to generate a 3-D.

Why isn't it possible for you to make your 3D model manager for the in game representation and import a 2D photo for your manager profile page?

[GoldenGoal]

18 hours ago, KUBI said:

This is totally false, in FM 16 you can make the face, but you can still add a photo in the game options, when you are creating, and i think also if you make one using the ID (like a facepack). So why not anymore?

Other managers can be seen in the touchline with a 3D body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

Players can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

Regens can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them (in the same way by picking their ID and creating a image), so why not for the user?

Referees can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

It's quite sad to see that he now wants to dictate how others should play.

[Trequartista1985]

On 10/22/2017 at 11:56, McClane29 said:

I know it's still early amidst a few feature reveals, but has anyone seen or heard any evidence to suggest that FM18 will have sorted out the generated faces of regens from last year?

In previous years, regens were never really a problem. However, with virtually every regen entering the game with orange eyes or a massive forehead, it just made the game unplayable in the long-run. I never understood why SI thought there was a need to meddle with the graphics for regens and then never bother to correct the issue through a patch.

I've read that one of the FM community's biggest graphical contributors will stop creating various graphics for the forthcoming release if the likes of regen faces are not corrected this year. Therefore, I sincerely hope FM18 is not loaded with the same graphical rubbish for regens. I also hope we are able to upload our own personal manager photo once more and that female regens can have faces, one way or another.

I agree 100% here. 

In regards of the regen issue i don't even want to start. It's pretty obvious this is one of the biggest mess ups in the franchise history. 

Now to the manager picture part. It makes no sense SI so aggressively fight against the option to let players use their own manager picture. It was worked around i think like 2 or 3 times by skinners last year, and despite the fact they could not be bothered to fix the constantly and randomly changing hairstyles of regens (for like the last 3 FM's that is) and their cartoonish appearances plus the shading issue which was raised by like 5 people separately, it didn't even take them a week to take away the skinners workaround for using your own manager picture with patches. What makes it even more weird, is the fact that Miles and co. suddenly loose the ability to speak, every time the community ask "WHY?". If at least the reasons were obvious, i could understand they wouldn't be bothered to ask silly questions. But so many are asking, and wanting the feature, so for god sake, speak up humans!

Just out of curiousity @McClane29, who is the graphical contributor you refer to in your thread? Please don't say it's Debski or Flut!?

[Wlocke]

7 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

This is totally false, in FM 16 you can make the face, but you can still add a photo in the game options, when you are creating, and i think also if you make one using the ID (like a facepack). So why not anymore?

Other managers can be seen in the touchline with a 3D body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

Players can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

Regens can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them (in the same way by picking their ID and creating a image), so why not for the user?

Referees can be seen in the field with a 3d body, yet facepacks can still be installed for them, so why not for the user?

It's quite sad to see that he now wants to dictate how others should play.

He has always wanted to dictate how people play this game. If one would try to engage him in a discussion about topic X he would respond with "I think I'm in a better position to talk about X". If one then disagrees = BANNED. That way he can live in his twitter bubble and recieve only praise. Truly an adult way of acting =)

[Trequartista1985]

33 minutes ago, Wlocke said:

He has always wanted to dictate how people play this game. If one would try to engage him in a discussion about topic X he would respond with "I think I'm in a better position to talk about X". If one then disagrees = BANNED. That way he can live in his twitter bubble and recieve only praise. Truly an adult way of acting =)

Funny how that reminds me of certain admins on here.

[Keyzer Soze]

It's a strange decision by SI.

It's obvious that the 3D face mapping feature is something that SI must be very proud, or at least spend some time and money in the development, so i can understand that they what to keep it in the game, despite the common negative feedback.

What i don't understand is the reason they didn't give us the upload photo alternative, when it's obvious that it's the one most people like.

It's strange, that a computer game, where almost every player, manager, referee, etc can have a real photo, and you, the most important item in the game, can't. 

[Trequartista1985]

@HUNT3R you closed my own thread on this topic, saying it has already been asked in this one. Fair enough, but since you lock/close it, means you guys are clearly seeing it obviously.

May i ask why you don't answer it/them then (i see there is a couple more about regens in FM18 on here)?

 

[Viking]

The way SI is approaching this is actually quite weird. It almost makes me believe it's the son of some SI/SEGA executive that are in charge of the 3D faces and the regens, an no-one dares to question him. I want my profile picture in the game, because in a world of beautiful cut-out faces I am a horrendous cartoon monster (well, me and the equally horrendous regens).

[Viking]

33 minutes ago, Trequartista1985 said:

@HUNT3R you closed my own thread on this topic, saying it has already been asked in this one. Fair enough, but since you lock/close it, means you guys are clearly seeing it obviously.

May i ask why you don't answer it/them then (i see there is a couple more about regens in FM18 on here)?

 

HUNT3R is a moderator and not an SI employee. He doesn't necessarily know more than you or me on the subject.

[HUNT3R]

39 minutes ago, Trequartista1985 said:

@HUNT3R you closed my own thread on this topic, saying it has already been asked in this one. Fair enough, but since you lock/close it, means you guys are clearly seeing it obviously.

May i ask why you don't answer it/them then (i see there is a couple more about regens in FM18 on here)?

 

I generally don't post where I have nothing to say. I don't work for SI and in this case, I don't know their reasoning. I can assume it's to move completely to the 3d models and it links to you as manager on the pitch, but as it's just a photo, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. They design the game and there are short, medium and long term road maps toward what they're building. I assume there was reasons for the removal, so I accept it. As I said, to me it's absolutely minor.

[McClane29]

5 hours ago, Trequartista1985 said:

I agree 100% here. 

In regards of the regen issue i don't even want to start. It's pretty obvious this is one of the biggest mess ups in the franchise history. 

Now to the manager picture part. It makes no sense SI so aggressively fight against the option to let players use their own manager picture. It was worked around i think like 2 or 3 times by skinners last year, and despite the fact they could not be bothered to fix the constantly and randomly changing hairstyles of regens (for like the last 3 FM's that is) and their cartoonish appearances plus the shading issue which was raised by like 5 people separately, it didn't even take them a week to take away the skinners workaround for using your own manager picture with patches. What makes it even more weird, is the fact that Miles and co. suddenly loose the ability to speak, every time the community ask "WHY?". If at least the reasons were obvious, i could understand they wouldn't be bothered to ask silly questions. But so many are asking, and wanting the feature, so for god sake, speak up humans!

Just out of curiousity @McClane29, who is the graphical contributor you refer to in your thread? Please don't say it's Debski or Flut!?

 

Don't take this as gospel as I simply read a quote of his on Reddit, but I refer to Debski.

Despite FM being released with limited graphics due to licensing, even SI knows that a majority of players personalize their game through the graphics made available in the community. If it wasn't for these great people, we wouldn't have any of the latest kits, faces, logos, skins etc and I probably wouldn't play the game at all.

As I've said, the manager photo saga alone comes as a massive slap in the face to contributors like this. Shame on SI.

[GoldenGoal]

On 22/10/2017 at 09:48, KUBI said:

It's simply because managers are now 3-D in the game and you can't apply a 2-D picture to it, you need to generate a 3-D.

One thing i forgot to mention in my post that also disproves all these reasons given:

There was a way to add an photo in fm17 by changing some interface files (proof 1, proof 2), the photo worked without causing any problems, but then SI simply removed this possibility in a patch, FORCING other people to use the 3d face whether they wanted it or not.

What's next? Can only play 4-3-3 formations? Only be of english nationality and play Watford?

[KUBI]

5 minutes ago, GoldenGoal said:

What's next? Can only play 4-3-3 formations? Only be of english nationality and play Watford?

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The manager appearance does not have any influence on game play. It's just a graphic issue. 

My guess is, that this is a long term decision. We just have to get used to it. 

[Wlocke]

33 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The manager appearance does not have any influence on game play. It's just a graphic issue. 

My guess is, that this is a long term decision. We just have to get used to it. 

As has been mentioned several times in multiple threads: it ABSOLUTELY DOES have influence on gameplay, for some people. Please stop making sweeping generalizations and assuming how people play this game and/or WHY people play this game. Some, like me, like to play FM-games and get immersed into the world of football the game creates. That includes forming bonds and connecting with fake players. It also includes not breaking immersion every time we see chernobyl-mutated newgens and managers. 

[BossPenguin]

38 minutes ago, KUBI said:

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. The manager appearance does not have any influence on game play. It's just a graphic issue. 

My guess is, that this is a long term decision. We just have to get used to it. 

I think this is a problem with transparency, one which is becoming an increasing issue with FM. Rarely is a straight answer given for anything.

If Miles simply came out and said 'We're doing to lay the foundations for something big in the future, therefore we have removed the option', I think most would be ok with the explanation, if not thrilled. Instead the answer he gave doesn't actually make any sense given there are numerous managers and players with their photo's officially in the game (and they don't look 'bad'), and then the mods here have to respond as you did, with a guess and 'We just have to get used to it' or to say how it doesn't bother them. This leaves next to no-one satisfied.

I know the mods here have no control over Miles' Twitter, or the direction of the series, but it's an issue that I believe needs reviewing by SI and Miles, as it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.