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1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Can't really disagree with any of this.

I can - it wouldn't have taken much programming time to throw in the older newgens or, god forbid, the baseball ones.

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20 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

I can - it wouldn't have taken much programming time to throw in the older newgens or, god forbid, the baseball ones.

Either it would take a lot more than you imagine (easily possible) or they just didn't want to.  Probably both.

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7 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Either it would take a lot more than you imagine (easily possible) or they just didn't want to.  Probably both.

Perhaps in licensing arrangements, but not in programming time.

I don't doubt they didn't want to, but that has no relevance to XaW's 'sympathy for programmers' post I disagreed with.

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Of course it's all fairly moot, because of the two FM18 newgen faces I've seen 1 was vaguely acceptable, and they may have been developed considerably since then.

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1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

I can - it wouldn't have taken much programming time to throw in the older newgens or, god forbid, the baseball ones.

Actually, I think I read somewhere that the faces are going on top of the player models in matches. Unless, I got that wrong of course. And IF that is the case, it could open a whole new can of worms. I really doubt that SI looked at the faces in the first post here and went :"Ah, it'll do. We won't use a couple of hours to fix it!"

1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

Perhaps in licensing arrangements, but not in programming time.

I don't doubt they didn't want to, but that has no relevance to XaW's 'sympathy for programmers' post I disagreed with.

I've never said you should sympathize for programmers, but as someone who works with a lot of similar cases as this I also can see the issue from the other side. And I also get a lot of the same notions. "It's an easy fix", "why don't you just do X", or several other similar statements from non-programmers. When the real issue is that it's impossible within the current framework because we don't have the time or manpower to implement said framework. OR that we have suggested implementing it in the past, but they customer don't see the value.

I'm not claiming fixing regen faces can't be done, hell I'd love better faces when I play youth-only challenges. However, it might not be a quickfix as people claim. So, unless SI states they are happy with the current faces, I assume they have a very good reason for not improving it. Would you be happy if they stated their current infrastructure don't support your issue? No, you would demand to know WHY they didn't improve it earlier. They can't win against this demand-more argumentation.

Edited by XaW

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6 minutes ago, XaW said:

Actually, I think I read somewhere that the faces are going on top of the player models in matches. Unless, I got that wrong of course. And IF that is the case, it could open a whole new can of worms. I really doubt that SI looked at the faces in the first post here and went :"Ah, it'll do. We won't use a couple of hours to fix it!"

 

1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

Of course it's all fairly moot, because of the two FM18 newgen faces I've seen 1 was vaguely acceptable, and they may have been developed considerably since then.

I was just referring to your tearjerker post and forneareuss' highlighting of his own praising within it - not actually commenting on FM.

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27 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

 

I was just referring to your tearjerker post and forneareuss' highlighting of his own praising within it - not actually commenting on FM.

If you can point out where I overly praised anyone, that'd be just grand x

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9 minutes ago, forameuss said:

If you can point out where I overly praised anyone, that'd be just grand x

This is all getting silly now, but I said 'own' praise, as XaW wrote a post telling everyone to listen to you and you sutbly said you agreed with it in full. Molehill > Mountain. I won't comment on this pish again - sorry for even causing 5 post of it.

Edited by Per Annum

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Those regens that have mohawks and afro's when they're like Malaysian or some other nationality that aren't known for afro's and mohawks do my tits in!

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1 hour ago, Per Annum said:

I was just referring to your tearjerker post and forneareuss' highlighting of his own praising within it - not actually commenting on FM.

I really don't see the tearjerking in the post, but I guess I hit a nerve with you and I apologize if you took it to heart.

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2 hours ago, XaW said:

Actually, I think I read somewhere that the faces are going on top of the player models in matches. Unless, I got that wrong of course. And IF that is the case, it could open a whole new can of worms. I really doubt that SI looked at the faces in the first post here and went :"Ah, it'll do. We won't use a couple of hours to fix it!"

If this is true and very much like the manager photo these changes have been made to replicate faces in the match engine, then it would be one of the most ridiculous decisions made by SI in the entire series.

You can hardly see any faces at all in the 3D match engine, making it completely pointless. Also many people still favour 2D. Most of the game is spent out of the match engine and on profile screens or in your own inbox. It would make much more sense to have a normal looking face in-game, rather than wasting time with the match engine look. 

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10 hours ago, XaW said:

I'm beginning to notice that not many in here are at all familiar with the process of software development, but seem to have VERY strong opinions on how it should be done. Some of you should listen to what @forameuss are saying, since he makes some good points here.

If you expect a developer to listen to EVERYTHING the customer want you would end up with a product no one would have bought or enjoyed even a bit. I work very closely with a customer in regards to their wants and needs, but we really need to stop a lot of it since the end result would not be something they would like. As many people who work in this line of business knows, what the product owner (customer) tells you they want is often FAR from what they actually would use and enjoy.

I do agree something needs to be done with the newgen/regen faces, but I would assume small graphical issues such as this would have a much lower priority than the Match Engine for example. The thing is, SI probably have a million things on their backlog, both new features, refactoring and of course bugs and issues. If they were to fix everything then we wouldn't have a new version for a couple of decades. And even then, what you want and what I want might not be possible to have in the same game!

As consumers we have a few options:

  • Post bug reports to the developer when we find issues
    • I've posted around 20 myself this BETA and most have been fixed or are under review
  • Suggest new features or changes to existing ones
    • There is a sub section for this, and SI monitor it. Many people have noticed their suggestions implemented.
  • Stop buying the game
    • Seriously, if you don't like it, don't buy it. There is a demo for everyone to try out. Questions regarding other thing will mostly be answered here on the forums should anyone ask.

If what you want isn't implemented it could be because your suggestion goes against the roadmap SI have set, or that it's not possible at the moment, and it might be added later. They will have their own process as to what and how the implement changes.

I'm enjoying the FM18 Beta a lot so far. I've had a few bugs, even some very annoying ones, but since we are in a beta after all you cannot expect a flawless game. You probably shouldn't expect that even after release, since just about every program out there have bugs and issues. I'm playing this game and enjoy it, I've done so the past 20+ years, and this is the reason I keep buying the game every year. If I felt SI wanted to take this game in a direction I didn't like I would stop buying it. It really is that simple.

A little weird way to look at things.

If your philosophy was right, and regens don't really have any priority, then why touch them in the first place at all. They clearly tried, and messed them up on FM17? They have never been looking so bad, not even 5-6 years ago.

And what frustrates people further, is the fact that if they have coding which worked before, implement it again at least. Admit the new version did not work, and revert back to what did at least. Leaving the elephant in the room, and avoiding talking about it (closing posts, ignoring bugs raised 2 years ago, ect.) doesn't help either.

I code. So i know it's not "just to do things" - but in one whole year (2017), there is no excuse for fixing the regens we saw last year, either by reverting back or creating something better. 

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 12:07, CFuller said:

Newgen faces play a big role in immersing myself in long-term saves.

If done well, newgens can feel as ‘human’ - for want of a better word - as real-life players, and I can relate to them more. If done badly, the in-game universe feels like a horrible sci-fi programme where all the footballers are gradually replaced by what David Icke would call the Lizard Illuminati.

The newgen faces in FM13 were great, even if they did get samey after a while. The newgen faces in FM15 and FM16 weren’t perfect, but they were steps in the right direction. In FM17, though... dear God, where do I begin?

I didn’t have the devil eyes other users complained about. What I did have, though, were enormous foreheads, youth teams full of recuperating drug addicts, and players who started suffering from male pattern baldness as soon as they began secondary school.

Complete hair loss in 16-year-olds? I can accept that in a world where Jonjo Shelvey exists. What truly breaks the immersion for me is seeing goodness knows how many teenagers who resemble Bobby Charlton, Alan Cork or my old school headmaster.

Adding a third-party hairpack helps, but it’s not foolproof. Players can often switch between very different hairstyles, seemingly based on their morale. I’ve got one player who sometimes has a glorious 19th-century handlebar moustache and sometimes has barely any hair. Another usually has a full head of hair, but every now and then, he turns into this guy (minus the glasses, of course).

As trivial as they may seem to some, the newgen faces were the only aspect of FM17 I really did not like. If this has not been improved in FM18, then it’s just another reason for me to consider skipping the latest version.

So much this. For me, and I'm sure there are many others, FM works because I'm able to lose myself in the world of my particular save. On FM17 I got one of the best regens I've ever seen. The problem was I loathed ever checking in on his player screen because he had a severe receding hairline and ORANGE EYES!!! Decisions like that are absolutely baffling to me. I'm guessing they made eye color some kind of randomly generated value maybe? If so that is absolutely mind boggling that's how they would set it up. No one on this planet has orange eyes...or white, or red or whatever. It's such a shame.

https://community.sigames.com/topic/393724-whats-with-all-the-orange-eyed-regens/?tab=comments#comment-10619140

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40 minutes ago, puffascruffowitz said:

So much this. For me, and I'm sure there are many others, FM works because I'm able to lose myself in the world of my particular save. On FM17 I got one of the best regens I've ever seen. The problem was I loathed ever checking in on his player screen because he had a severe receding hairline and ORANGE EYES!!! Decisions like that are absolutely baffling to me. I'm guessing they made eye color some kind of randomly generated value maybe? If so that is absolutely mind boggling that's how they would set it up. No one on this planet has orange eyes...or white, or red or whatever. It's such a shame.

https://community.sigames.com/topic/393724-whats-with-all-the-orange-eyed-regens/?tab=comments#comment-10619140

That's what i mean. Forget programming, priorities, "not a FIFA kind of game / budget".... there is no excuses for not fixing something like this - let alone in one whole year.

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In a few hours you will see how they are looking in FM 2018. You should give them a chance at least.

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4 hours ago, McClane29 said:

If this is true and very much like the manager photo these changes have been made to replicate faces in the match engine, then it would be one of the most ridiculous decisions made by SI in the entire series.

You can hardly see any faces at all in the 3D match engine, making it completely pointless. Also many people still favour 2D. Most of the game is spent out of the match engine and on profile screens or in your own inbox. It would make much more sense to have a normal looking face in-game, rather than wasting time with the match engine look. 

I don't get this thinking at all - maybe they aren't very visible now, but presumbably in the long term SI want to create a more detailed expierience which puts the players faces on show a bit more. Just because they arne't at present doesn't mean they won't be in future, they've got to start somewhere!

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31 minutes ago, KUBI said:

In a few hours you will see how they are looking in FM 2018. You should give them a chance at least.

I definitely will. I have faith in you guys, cause i love the series so much.

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1 hour ago, KUBI said:

In a few hours you will see how they are looking in FM 2018. You should give them a chance at least.

My fingers are crossed tightly.

If regen faces are the same though... my word, it's not even worth thinking about.

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The game is out, check the regens faces - and yes, they are looking better.

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40 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The game is out, check the regens faces - and yes, they are looking better.

They're still ugly as sin though :(

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46 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The game is out, check the regens faces - and yes, they are looking better.

Can't say I'm hugely impressed by the journalists and agents faces. Certainly not terrible or awful, but meh.

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8 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

Can't say I'm hugely impressed by the journalists and agents faces. Certainly not terrible or awful, but meh.

Please post some screenshots. Maybe somebody could load a regens only database, and upload some different faces?

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43 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

Regens look better so far (apart from number 2, who looks like he's had a stroke :D)

Regen 1.png

Regen 2.png

Regen 3.png

Regen 4.png

 

5 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

Please post some screenshots. Maybe somebody could load a regens only database, and upload some different faces?

not my work but

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43 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

 

not my work but

Thanks Per.

More variaton it seems, but hard to tell from only 4 pics. Where did you get these, if they are not yours?

The texture doens't look promising though - hopefully they are taken on a low res/settings machine.

Edited by DimitriFromParis

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7 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

Thanks Per.

More variety it seems, but hard to tell from only 4 pics. Where did you get these, if they are not yours?

The texture doens't look promising though - hopefully they are taken on a low res/settings machine.

Here's 9 of them from my youth team:

1.PNG.02d843e2853d62fadf43b48ba299f411.PNG2.PNG.4114824a5e882aa3d4437b1e15ad9db2.PNG3.PNG.79ac084c97932a3257ca1e9ccfdb3dec.PNG4.PNG.2fac3ec9d0ce00ae427485f3fdb63e03.PNG5.PNG.407dc5b50ec35e1770fd53f6c8650bba.PNG6.PNG.c0bc9daa25d9e9a44d7fbd5fa202fb19.PNG7.PNG.bc1921796bb50d07adf961ead3d671d0.PNG8.PNG.6c5507818c084347e2d6ddf02bb9471b.PNG9.PNG.f4011c765f01b0bf6d408874a4fd6e92.PNG

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How have you got a 17 y/o with 6 English u21 caps? He must be amazing.

Even Phil Foden hasn't played u21

Edited by Per Annum

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3 minutes ago, Per Annum said:

How have you got a 17 y/o with 6 English u21 caps? He must be amazing.

Even Phil Foden hasn't played u21

He's the next John Barnes, I need to get rid of the simple passes PPM.

harvey.thumb.PNG.1036be40b62706e4903c37a0e25ad2e2.PNG

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16 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

Thanks Per.

More variety it seems, but hard to tell from only 4 pics. Where did you get these, if they are not yours?

The texture doens't look promising though - hopefully they are taken on a low res/settings machine.

I took them. Highest graphics settings.

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7 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

@eastmd01 Thanks. What is your FM graphical setup and on which GPU?

Very High / Titan X.

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14 minutes ago, martplfc1 said:

I took them. Highest graphics settings.

So this year, despite the good thing that there is much more variation and they look human, SI decided to make the "shading bug" from last year a permanent part of FM18, despite having had a year to work it out and even confirmed on the forums a week ago, it has been fixed. Wow, just wow.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

They all look like the bugged one on the left here (FM17), texture/shading wise.

Billedresultat for regen shading bug


 

Edited by DimitriFromParis

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22 minutes ago, eastmd01 said:

Here's 9 of them from my youth team:

1.PNG.02d843e2853d62fadf43b48ba299f411.PNG2.PNG.4114824a5e882aa3d4437b1e15ad9db2.PNG3.PNG.79ac084c97932a3257ca1e9ccfdb3dec.PNG4.PNG.2fac3ec9d0ce00ae427485f3fdb63e03.PNG5.PNG.407dc5b50ec35e1770fd53f6c8650bba.PNG6.PNG.c0bc9daa25d9e9a44d7fbd5fa202fb19.PNG7.PNG.bc1921796bb50d07adf961ead3d671d0.PNG8.PNG.6c5507818c084347e2d6ddf02bb9471b.PNG9.PNG.f4011c765f01b0bf6d408874a4fd6e92.PNG

Not perfect but surely better than the other year

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I am not too sure if I would be utilising the vanilla regens for this version of the game based on the images shown. Perhaps I need to encounter them on one of my long term saves to form an opinion. I would most probably be utilising my own custom regens again this year. I do mod my games (other games) to the max, especially character textures, textures in general so perhaps that is influencing my opinion. I do think the regens look much better than FM17 regens. I couldn’t even look at the FM17 regens and try and change them manually by giving them beards, and hair and stuff.     

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I actually think they look good. Anyone tried installing a hairpack to see how they would look? Judging by their image i think the FM15 hairpack format would be suitable because of their distance in the image, but i wouldn't know.

Faces seem to be reasonably varied. A few have strange proportion but mostly i think they look way better than FM17.

Now they just need to fix the shading bug and it will look pretty good i think.

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3 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

I actually think they look good. Anyone tried installing a hairpack to see how they would look? Judging by their image i think the FM15 hairpack format would be suitable because of their distance in the image, but i wouldn't know.

Faces seem to be reasonably varied. A few have strange proportion but mostly i think they look way better than FM17.

Now they just need to fix the shading bug and it will look pretty good i think.

They've changed the pathing on the regen folders so I'm now not sure exactly where to put the additional hair.

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7 hours ago, eastmd01 said:

Here's 9 of them from my youth team:

1.PNG.02d843e2853d62fadf43b48ba299f411.PNG2.PNG.4114824a5e882aa3d4437b1e15ad9db2.PNG3.PNG.79ac084c97932a3257ca1e9ccfdb3dec.PNG4.PNG.2fac3ec9d0ce00ae427485f3fdb63e03.PNG5.PNG.407dc5b50ec35e1770fd53f6c8650bba.PNG6.PNG.c0bc9daa25d9e9a44d7fbd5fa202fb19.PNG7.PNG.bc1921796bb50d07adf961ead3d671d0.PNG8.PNG.6c5507818c084347e2d6ddf02bb9471b.PNG9.PNG.f4011c765f01b0bf6d408874a4fd6e92.PNG

Much better than last year, for sure... but do they all go to the same hairdresser?

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1 hour ago, headshothitman said:

Regens look phenomenal. How far FM has come since FM09 :)

Are you joking?! Did you not play FM for the last 3-4 years, since you can say they look "phenomenal"...

Not only is the shading bug present (permanent now), you can't use custom hair files any longer, as they are now complex 3D files. So you guys are stuck with 6-7 hairstyles. Enjoy :lol:

Edited by DimitriFromParis

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55 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

Are you joking?! Did you not play FM for the last 3-4 years, since you can say they look "phenomenal"...

Not only is the shading bug present (permanent now), you can't use custom hair files any longer, as they are now complex 3D files. So you guys are stuck with 6-7 hairstyles. Enjoy :lol:

Imagine him having an independent thought of his own :rolleyes:

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I've just realised does anyone have long hair or a beard? Hairstyles I feel are lacking atm but the faces are much better.

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At least they resemble human beings now. On the right track if nothing else.

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One can only imagine what the world would have been, had SI decided not to implement newgen faces back in the day. Probably we'd be complaining about lack of graphics at all, I suppose.

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They look pretty good, not perfect but certainly good enough for me.

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We all have different standards, fair enought. But this is what good should look like in 2017, almost 18 imo. Especially as it's not a moving 3D figure, but "just" a static face/screenshot. 

FxWMcVm.png cMAgAsa.jpg

Can't compare to this

Regen 3.pngRegen 2.pngRegen 1.png

 

Seeing them side by side, makes the FM18 ones ook like cartoon faces now.

VvZyXaa.jpg

Edited by DimitriFromParis

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7 hours ago, CFuller said:

Much better than last year, for sure... but do they all go to the same hairdresser?

Yes I believe all their barbers went to the Mikel Arteta Barber School. Either that or they all work for the Lego corporation :lol:

Seriously though they're much better this year

 

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I have not seen any regen faces yet, as I only just created my own manager profile - and boy did it look strange. I really wonder what's going on here. I gave the manager my own physical stats, and I was frankly astonished: a very fit early-forties manager looks like someone who has been doing nothing but drugs and eaten nothing but sweets for the past 20 years. A drawn, haggard face with serious blotches of discoloration in the cheeks and chin. What's going on?

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2 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

I have not seen any regen faces yet, as I only just created my own manager profile - and boy did it look strange. I really wonder what's going on here. I gave the manager my own physical stats, and I was frankly astonished: a very fit early-forties manager looks like someone who has been doing nothing but drugs and eaten nothing but sweets for the past 20 years. A drawn, haggard face with serious blotches of discoloration in the cheeks and chin. What's going on?

drug manager 2018?

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Could be. But surely that wasn't the intention.

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Regens look shockingly bad. The development over the last 2 years baffles me.

I don't really understand the criteria of the people who think this year is better than the last. Solely that the variation is better? 

The shading bug is now a permanent feature, and it looks like it's impossible to use 2D hair graphics- we're stuck with the horrible 3D hair models.

 

I just don't understand the decisions made at all.

Edited by Saevel

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