Am i the only one really happy with the 17 ME?

[Defensive]

Im reading all the negative feedback here and just wondering if i am the only one who thinks that the ME (only commenting on the me) is BY FAR the best in history of FM and really a lot of fun? Of course there is always room for improvements and im still a fan of FM 12 with the former me. But we finally have a ME without any game breaking bugs or weaknesses, no goals galore as in 15 or stupid goals from crosses as in 16. Actually (sorry sigames) i see no reason for buying 18 right now because i enjoy 17 so much! Reading all the critics here i wonder if there is actually anyone else who thinks the same?

[herne79]

No you're not alone.

It's not perfect, there are some areas that could certainly be improved, but nothing game breaking as you say.

Although to be fair something that isn't "game breaking" to one person could be to someone else, so different people will have their own perspective on that.

[westy8chimp]

Sometimes easy to forget that this (FM17) is one of the better MEs.

I think the main frustrations are off the back of FM16 where it was possibly the worst ever ME. Wingbacks getting 40 assists a season and winning the ballon d'or.

This year there was such a shift, particularly in midfield defensive positioning (seemingly to fix FM16) that all it did was highlight how little autonomy we as managers have over the defensive side of the game. The position of wingers relative to their central midfielders, the position of central midfield partnerships, the strikers not tracking back enough.

When you add on top the changes in real football terms, far more sophisticated ways of pressing, shifting banks etc it hammers home that we simply have no control or capability to impart our unique managerial identity on the team.

What makes Mourinho's style? We all know vs Liverpool on Saturday that whoever plays on the attacking wings for Utd will end up forming a back 6 when Liverpool attack. We can't really emulate that.

What made Rodgers different from Klopp at Liverpool? Rodgers allowed the opposition to advance to the half way line with the ball and then his team would press relentlessly, whereas Klopp has a press based around trying very hard to win the ball back as quick as possible, if it fails revert to formation. We can't really emulate that. At best we can set a trap to try and encourage the AI to play down a particular channel or clear the ball.

 

[MBarbaric]

i find it curious that someone with nick "Defensive" would say FM17 ME is without any major flaws  

banter aside, i am quite disillusioned with the ME for few years now. not because i just want to be negative and pain in the back. on contrary. I've always loved football since i know for myself and played this game when I had no understanding of english language. this game was probably the most important thing that stirred me towards coaching and then further into the professional game I never thought i'd go. what i do for living is genuinely the consequence of the game and i owe it the bread i eat. quite literally. 

however, as I learned more about the game of football I've become disillusioned with the game that made me learn so much about football in the first place. to the point that when I watch the match engine I can't play the game taking it seriously anymore. it has so many glaring difficulties representing the real football that it just isn't plausible as it was 10 years ago. I am not saying the game as a whole isn't good, I just think that some fundamental parts of it (defensive phase to be precise) are nothing like what real football is. 

My bitterness comes from wish/hope/will to improve it not to smash it just because I feel it. hooh, that felt cathartic.

[lemeuresnew]

@MBarbaric - i kind of agree. back in the day of little circles running around so fast you couldn't tell an offside without a freeze frame it was so much easier to believe the little lines of commentary and imagine the rest. i guess the problem comes, where you get to a level that is acceptable and stop having to believe. then all those little problems you could ignore before just leap out

still a game i will play for hundreds of hours still, and pick playing over those fake 'friends' that have never helped me win so much as a league cup. where are they when im 2 down at half time? screw real people

[Dave1990]

2 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

i find it curious that someone with nick "Defensive" would say FM17 ME is without any major flaws  

banter aside, i am quite disillusioned with the ME for few years now. not because i just want to be negative and pain in the back. on contrary. I've always loved football since i know for myself and played this game when I had no understanding of english language. this game was probably the most important thing that stirred me towards coaching and then further into the professional game I never thought i'd go. what i do for living is genuinely the consequence of the game and i owe it the bread i eat. quite literally. 

however, as I learned more about the game of football I've become disillusioned with the game that made me learn so much about football in the first place. to the point that when I watch the match engine I can't play the game taking it seriously anymore. it has so many glaring difficulties representing the real football that it just isn't plausible as it was 10 years ago. I am not saying the game as a whole isn't good, I just think that some fundamental parts of it (defensive phase to be precise) are nothing like what real football is. 

My bitterness comes from wish/hope/will to improve it not to smash it just because I feel it. hooh, that felt cathartic.

I agree completely on everything.

It makes me very difficult to consider this game the best of all time, after having lived it completely (both offline and online mode). I find it hard to think of a more casual ME than the basic football data (kms runs per game, number of lost balls and recovered for example), in 2017 I expect at least a number close to real data, unfortunately in this sector the game compared to FM16 has worsened. Goals from crosses have dropped but total crosses aren't over yet , and still it is easy to create a tactic where full-backs at the end of the year will be the best assist-men of the team. But in my opinion, the most frustrating fact is that of closing down and the whole pressure phase, where players always and in any case intend to disturb the ballholder and in many situations the readings of the game are embarrassing, with two or even three players intending to press only one opponent. But if they were marking twice, all this would be acceptable, but in this case it is a casual closing down with the opponent's player forced to retreat from three players in angry dog mode! This problem is related to the great success of exploit tactics like all strikerless tactics for example, which already worked well enough in the previous chapters.

 

Basically, considering the potentials of the game, FM 17 it is the one has disappointed me more then ever. I hope in the future to not see any players that freeze after a tackle or CBs freezing inexplicably by giving the ball to the opposing striker, or goalkeepers throwing the ball into the corner despite it being destined to leave the pitch.

[ermant]

3 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

I think the main frustrations are off the back of FM16 where it was possibly the worst ever ME. Wingbacks getting 40 assists a season and winning the ballon d'or.

This is the same for FM17. In fact, it is the same for all versions for at least 5 years back. My wingback has the highest average rating for years. A club legend, always fans player of the season, several golden ball and world player of the year awards. 

Injustice between the roles and positions definitely have to be considered. I don't expect it to change in FM18. Wingbacks will always rule.

[westy8chimp]

Maybe I've self constrained my wingbacks as to stop exploiting the ME, but I certainly didn't feel they were quite as strong this year. In fact full backs on attack duty seem far more lethal than wingbacks.

I've found with FM17 I can win with pretty much any formation given a set of favourite instructions ... but what I can't do (which I want to do more than just win) is create specific styles based on real life. i.e. to emulate Ferguson, or Simeone, Or Allardyce.

[Guest El Payaso]

39 minutes ago, ermant said:

This is the same for FM17. In fact, it is the same for all versions for at least 5 years back. My wingback has the highest average rating for years. A club legend, always fans player of the season, several golden ball and world player of the year awards. 

Injustice between the roles and positions definitely have to be considered. I don't expect it to change in FM18. Wingbacks will always rule.

Yes and apparently the wingers defending too wide was supposed to be working as a fix for the overlapping full/wingbacks, really didn't work out too well to be fair. Got bored of inspecting this when reported about it for a while and seeing my Conference South full back being able to freely escape against 442s 10-15 times a game. Bound to be lethal even without superior crossing ability.

For me the main problem on FM 2017's engine was the fact that with the wingers defending too wide, exploiting the middle (even without aiming to exploit) was always going to be even more easy. And good examples about this was that now midfielders easily recorded 2-3 times the passing attempts than they usually do in real life. But even worse was the amount that strikers do as they normally recorded now 3-4 times more on support duty and as strikers do not even drop to help in defending this means that most of those 70-90 pass attempts happen in dangerous zones as usually 80-90% of those are connected. This means that strikers in support duty were totally controlling the match engine and creating very certain sources for scoring chances and goals. 

What I haven't like for years in FM engines is that they seem to completely lack on variation in terms of how goals are scored and chances created. Watching someone's YouTube account and them playing games, it is actually really easy to predict what is going to happen as you see the same scenarios over and over again with your own game while you are playing with totally different team and totally different style of play. This makes both the highlights really boring in a long run and also the player/team statistics seem to be really repetitive. That is why I usually laugh when people keep asking in "Player and team guide" area "How is Bellerin doing for you?" when we all basically know how he is going to do, no matter what role or duty you will give him. Also I often see those "He doesn't really have the attributes for this role but he is doing surprisingly well".

In total I would say that FM 2017 ME was one of the most 'balanced' ones in the history of the game: when you look at the scores and league positions etc. you feel that it is quite close to how it should be. On the other hand the statistics and the highlights did throw me to play only with commentary already before January. 

[westy8chimp]

44 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

In total I would say that FM 2017 ME was one of the most 'balanced' ones in the history of the game: when you look at the scores and league positions etc. you feel that it is quite close to how it should be. On the other hand the statistics and the highlights did throw me to play only with commentary already before January. 

Yes exactly - you can win a game 2-0 and think this is quite sensible... then look at the stats and see you had 120 crosses and only 3 were complete... the other 117 all went out at the near post [this is example was from the BETA not the end product]

Lack of variation not only in goals like you mention, but player to player. Very few different techniques and styles in player dribbling, sprinting, passing, shooting.

I think some defence is just in the capability the graphics have of portraying animation vs ME ... but we used to have inside forwards curl the ball on old FM, now we don't?

[Tony Wright 747]

2 minutes ago, westy8chimp said:

Yes exactly - you can win a game 2-0 and think this is quite sensible... then look at the stats and see you had 120 crosses and only 3 were complete... the other 117 all went out at the near post [this is example was from the BETA not the end product]

Lack of variation not only in goals like you mention, but player to player. Very few different techniques and styles in player dribbling, sprinting, passing, shooting.

I think some defence is just in the capability the graphics have of portraying animation vs ME ... but we used to have inside forwards curl the ball on old FM, now we don't?

This is why i hope that this years new graphics engine combined with more animations will enable us to see more clearly what is going on under the hood

[Keyzer Soze]

FM17 ME is a really good one, and by far one of the better (if not the better) that SI ever produce, and i believe the large majority of player think the same.

Sometimes, reading the forum, you may get a diferent idea because of 2 things:

1) Usually the people that come to the forum are the ones with some sort of issue with the game. They don't like this or that. People that like the game and are happy with it, just play the game and don't waste time writing stuff in forums.

2) The average player of FM is getting, year by year, more demanding towards the game. If a couple years back we were happy with a ME where we could defend zonal, and man to man, nowdays that's no good enough. Now we want a ME that allows us to defend zonal, man, pressing high, low, by zone, man to man, in just or half, and so on

So now, when we read the threads in the forum, you can see players bashing in the ME because the wide players on the midfield don't defend so close as they thought they should defend, or saying that this is the worst ME because the forwards stay to high on the pitch when the team in not in possession of the ball. 

But i think this is good for SI. Having a demanding fan base it's the key motivational point to keep improving the game.

[Scrench]

In most terms FM17 was easily the best. The physical interaction between the players massively improved, the flow of the animations were better, players seemed to make more "lifelike" decisions, attributes mattered a lot more than before.

BUT!

The wide midfielder positioning completely ruined everything. Regardless of what instructions you selected, what roles, what players, they were just standing out wide and observed the defensive phase resulting in giant open halfspaces which both the user and the AI could exploit very easily. It became pointless to have wide midfielders as they were totally useless in defense. This is why narrow formations thrived this year. Of course regular formations like 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 etc. were pretty much usable to great effect, but when you actually watched a match, it barely resembled how football is played in real life.Also CM-A role is just ridiculously overpowered in this years ME which made me dissatisfied with any result i earned with my 4-1-4-1 as i felt that I'm winning because i'm massively exploiting the ME.

TL;DR : It's the best so far, but with major flaws

[Defensive]

4 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

i find it curious that someone with nick "Defensive" would say FM17 ME is without any major flaws  

 

Actually my soft spot for defensive play is the exact reason why this is the best ME for me.:-) There are some flaws defensively as always but i dont recall any ME with better defending overall. Had way too many goals in 15 and as i said the conceding from crosses in 16 was driving me crazy. :-) In 17 its possible to keep clean sheets in a row with a solid tactic (what i didnt manage to do in the last versions).

[westy8chimp]

Just now, Defensive said:

Actually my soft spot for defensive play is the exact reason why this is the best ME for me.:-) There are some flaws defensively as always but i dont recall any ME with better defending overall. Had way too many goals in 15 and as i said the conceding from crosses in 16 was driving me crazy. :-) In 17 its possible to keep clean sheets in a row with a solid tactic (what i didnt manage to do in the last versions).

It's not about the result though it's how you get there. I had 14 clean sheets in a row with Liverpool playing 4231 wide, attacking with highest D line possible and more closing down.

Hardly a solid system - but my attack was good and won 2-0, 3-0 for months. I'd feel much better about 2 or 3 clean sheets than 15-20 if I felt I was really controlling the defence. We have very little say in our defensive tactics.

[MHovel]

5 hours ago, Defensive said:

But we finally have a ME without any game breaking bugs or weaknesses, no goals galore as in 15 or stupid goals from crosses as in 16. Actually (sorry sigames) i see no reason for buying 18 right now because I enjoy 17 so much!

You mean such goals when full backs, wingbacks, wingers etc... tries to cross the ball and accidently it turns into a goal? if that's what you mean being fixed you are possibly playing a different game.

 

go conceed 2 goals like that in game against Chelsea or any team (2nd goal is what you claim in your post as no longer an issue in FM17).

the "joke" on me: "now someone will come and will say it can happen in real life, yeah right, but not every game when the full back, wingback, winger, get lucky with their crosses, but funily this is not the subject, we thought the problem was fixed in this FM and well, it's not, arbeloa is going to win the baloon door again).

 

 

[samuelawachie]

53 minutes ago, Defensive said:

Actually my soft spot for defensive play is the exact reason why this is the best ME for me.:-) There are some flaws defensively as always but i dont recall any ME with better defending overall. Had way too many goals in 15 and as i said the conceding from crosses in 16 was driving me crazy. :-) In 17 its possible to keep clean sheets in a row with a solid tactic (what i didnt manage to do in the last versions).

If you only started playing from FM 15, then you don't have very much to go by, and you can't really be credible in your comparison. 

[Dave1990]

I think the complaints are there because the game has become too easy and almost monotonous and boring. I prefer a much tougher game where I don't get results but that reflects at least faithfully the real football game rather than a game where the ball is more in the air than on the ground, and actions with long ball on the flanks, direct cross and goals, or with a long ball, a motionless defender that looks the striker or who instead of going to counter him, it is disinterested in this, as you can see in this video (second goal, also the first is a crap but we got used to it ).

In fact this year was enough to find effective defensive solutions on crosses and long balls opponents, and 90% of the defensive phase was settled. We lose out some goals from corners and free kicks (and here are there too errors in defensive settings) and on individual errors that you can't it foresee.

[sporadicsmiles]

You are most definitively not alone in enjoying and appreciating this match engine, I think it is just that people are more motivated to post negatively rather than positively. Which is not a terrible thing, since it allows flaws in the ME to be hammered home. The match engine is not perfect (indeed there are a lot of areas that can improve) but there is also nothing hugely wrong with it. I have never had any problem with defending, for instance, and regularly am amongst the best in the league defensively, regardless of who I manage (unless it is relegation fodder, when I usually concede fewer than most around me still).I found it quite easy to vary where and how I score goals, within reason (I expect to score similar goals based on how I set up a team). 

It may just be that FM17 suited my style of football, or it may be that FM17 also coincided with me finally getting to grips with how to play FM. I still hope they have made further improvements!

[RiverReveal666]

I am usually pretty critical about the direction of FM, but not in the case of the ME. I think its fantastic. The team working on it deserve a lot of praise for where it is at the moment. While I think the series as a whole hasn't exactly progressed over the last few years, the ME for me is way ahead of its time. The yearly improvements to it are pretty much the reason I do end up investing in the yearly releases. 

[MBarbaric]

I also think the ME team should get a lot of credit for what they did. However, issues like these are unacceptable in a football match simulation. It doesn't even happen on FUFA.

 

 

[Guest El Payaso]

25 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

I also think the ME team should get a lot of credit for what they did. However, issues like these are unacceptable in a football match simulation. It doesn't even happen on FUFA.

 

 

 

Add to that the scenarios that we got to "enjoy" a lot during 17 at 5.40 (passing the ball at the dangerous areas) and at 16.10 (how defenders react to strikers' positioning and movement) and nightmares are guaranteed.  Well to be fair even the "clap your hands over your head" celebration gives me the chills and would single handedly keep me out of playing with 3D ever. 

This whole celebrating goals thing is a bit funny as IRL basically always the players run towards the corner flag to celebrate while on FM they just gather around clapping their hands above their heads. That's something that players might do after the game to thank the crowd but as a goal celebration it looks totally daft.

[MBarbaric]

21 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

at 5.40

triangles working beautifully it looks all well and good until you start looking what the defence does 

[MHovel]

41 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

 

Add to that the scenarios that we got to "enjoy" a lot during 17 at 5.40 and nightmares are guaranteed.  Well to be fair even the "clap your hands over your head" celebration gives me the chills and would single handedly keep me out of playing with 3D ever. 

I find his videos very entertaining, but his tactical side atleast in this specific video is terrible, he is playing with narrow formation and have ti's such as exploit flanks... that's the 1st flaw on his tactics, there might be more but those came straight to my eyes.

regarding the 3D, I honestly don't know how people in 2017 can watch matches on the current 3D (and even annoying when the characters suddenly freezes), the moves are totally misleading and it's impossible to add more stat windows because, the stat windows are hiding some part of the pitch.

tbf, you could say the same about the 2D (how people can watch games in 2D in 2017), but 2D is way easier to analyze, but in general it's OK to watch on it. I care less about the graphic sides if they will improve the annoying bugs i meantioned. 

 

I just encounter on another example about stupid offside role that not translated properly in the ME (The video link posted with the current time, just open it)

 

now, just imagine a casual gamer scoring this chance and the goal got disallowed because of a player who isn't even involved in the game (if it would happens once in a while, i would say, fine, referee mistakes happens in real life, but this BS happens all the time and ruinning user experience).

I hope FM18 will fix this. anyway gonna test the demo on free and not even going to bother and post pkm's in the bug forums, because i simply don't give a **** anymore about the game being improved, it's anyway going to be ignored by SI staff

[Guest El Payaso]

24 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

triangles working beautifully it looks all well and good until you start looking what the defence does 

Would be OK goal without couple of those retreats and return to the danger area before they score. 

2D with a split screen: the pitch on the left and stats on the right side of the screen is the only way to fly for me. You get the stats that you need and with a smaller view of the pitch you get the feeling that there isn't that much time and space on the pitch. 

With full screen I feel that even I could be a successful player on top level of football as I would be good as a support striker waiting for my poacher or overlapping AM to escape as one of the defenders suddenly spots a penny and goes to pick it up from the ground.

[ilkork]

To me, it seems that every year they fix something, but something else gets broken.
For example, they mostly fixed the crossing from FM16, but in this year's version, I think I have about 100+ offsides every season, where my player shoots from long range, but, because some of my players are last, the other team is awarded an offside. No, my players don't interfere and at most times they don't block the GK's view, so, why the offside???

This thing annoyed me even more than the "Shoot Less Often" PI of the Advanced Playmaker .

[enigmatic]

FM17 does provide better goal variety than FM16, but the midfield defensive positioning in some of the most common and most vanilla formations was laughable and the ME is far too easy to beat with narrow, possession oriented football.  I can understand how a match engine where wingers sometimes stay too wide like on the videos got green-lighted, but not one where this nearly always happens, even with no players to cover, and the central midfielders compound the error by [in many standard setups] virtually holding hands even when they're supposed to be extremely positionally aware.

But yeah, you're never going to impress everyone (as attested by the fact that some people are still upset by goals from the extremely-common-in-real-life route of cross assists despite nearly all the most overperforming FM17 tactical setups eschewing wingers playing their fullbacks narrow/inverted and usually telling them to cross less after the overcompensation from FM16... 

 

Observation: FM16's most overperforming formations were essentially 4-4-2, hardworking players stretching opponents and sticking the ball in the box for physical forwards. FM17's involved a back three, possession football and technical AMs making runs into the box, Conte-Chelsea style. At least you can't accuse FM17 of being behind the UK football curve. 

[Guest El Payaso]

This for me is how teams generally should defend. This is from Holland v Sweden this week which Holland won 2-0. Sweden have their whole team, including strikers under the ball and the whole defensive shape shifting to the area where they are needed. Just with this still image you can see that building through the middle especially with slow tempo is impossible as the attacking side is always going to be shorthanded there and by tight marking forced to try difficult passes with short passes. So more often than not teams just from this kind of situation shift the ball back to an area where losing possession is not that likely and try to find another solution. 

While on FM the 'compact' defensive unit more often than not looks like this. This is a capture from a random BustTheNet video and from a beginning of a highlight which leads to one of those most common FM goals that basically never could happen IRL. Strikers staying high up the pitch, wingers not shifting to the areas where they are needed in terms of defending and even the man marking being quite a bit of so and so. Defending the middle areas of the pitch have been pain to watch for years on FM and retaining possession super easy but the wide players' defensive positioning even further damaged this area. 

[psucolonel]

A far as I am concerned, FM17 is the best in the series, and I am really enjoying it.  I only wish saves were transferable from one version to the next, as I do not want to give up my career.  I probably won't pick up FM18 until it's well patched, and reduced in price.  It just makes sense to me since I am very much into my career.  The truth is, by waiting, I get a superior product (patched) at a much cheaper price.

[Dave1990]

7 hours ago, El Payaso said:

While on FM the 'compact' defensive unit more often than not looks like this. This is a capture from a random BustTheNet video and from a beginning of a highlight which leads to one of those most common FM goals that basically never could happen IRL. Strikers staying high up the pitch, wingers not shifting to the areas where they are needed in terms of defending and even the man marking being quite a bit of so and so. Defending the middle areas of the pitch have been pain to watch for years on FM and retaining possession super easy but the wide players' defensive positioning even further damaged this area. 

Strikers who are disinterested in the defensive phase are another big problem, usually the first step for a good defensive organization are the strikers behind the line of the ball ready to clog the lines of passes, sadly this on FM doesn't exist.

[Guest El Payaso]

5 hours ago, Dave1990 said:

Strikers who are disinterested in the defensive phase are another big problem, usually the first step for a good defensive organization are the strikers behind the line of the ball ready to clog the lines of passes, sadly this on FM doesn't exist.

Yes and this also takes CBs completely out of build ups as the staying high strikers force them also stay below halfway line. Because of that for example roles like Ball Playing Defender are quite a bit nerfed as they don't see the ball enough and are not on those areas where they can actually use their abilities. 

In real life for example CBs might try 60-70 passes a game and actually be the players that see the ball the most in the team while a striker often gets even less than 20 passing attempts per game. These are basically turned opposite on FM and that isn't even enough as I've seen strikers recording close to 100 per game and just by that one screenshot you basically see why is that. 

I so dang much hope that both the wide players' defensive positioning is fixed and also that teams, when defending, shift actively to the areas where they need the men to defend. And also for once have strikers dropping deeper to help the defense. Otherwise the ME is once again going to be repeating itself and you see those "triangles working" at the edge of the area. *

* = would add a smiley there but actually thinking about it makes me depressed.

[Ampalaea4]

Sorry to break it but ME is "awful" if you think this is the best manager game with millions of sales every year. I am not asking for Fifa graphics of course, but current ME is worse than free mobile games... For example look the free mobile "Dream league soccer" and the movement of players are tons better... they are not gliding, they dont shot like Subbuteo... and there are more different movements, passes, shots, etc.

 

The problem with FM is that it does not have competition, sadly.. But here we are, close to FM18 and I am waiting to see if they will finally release a match engine at least like the free mobile games. 

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Ampalaea4 said:

Sorry to break it but ME is "awful" if you think this is the best manager game with millions of sales every year. I am not asking for Fifa graphics of course, but current ME is worse than free mobile games... For example look the free mobile "Dream league soccer" and the movement of players are tons better... they are not gliding, they dont shot like Subbuteo... and there are more different movements, passes, shots, etc.

 

The problem with FM is that it does not have competition, sadly.. But here we are, close to FM18 and I am waiting to see if they will finally release a match engine at least like the free mobile games. 

I think "awful" is a little harsh, however there is a a lot of room for an improved ME.  The graphics were progressing up until FM16, but I think have taken a step back in FM17 and the screenshot that Miles put out of the Data Analyst camera looks more like the graphics from Ultimate Soccer Manager of 20 years ago.

[Ampalaea4]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

I think "awful" is a little harsh, however there is a a lot of room for an improved ME.  The graphics were progressing up until FM16, but I think have taken a step back in FM17 and the screenshot that Miles put out of the Data Analyst camera looks more like the graphics from Ultimate Soccer Manager of 20 years ago.

Well, I put the word awful with "" because I think it is awful for a game that sells millions every year. If it was a new crowdfunding indie game, I would say its ok, but from SI and Football Manager I expect much more.

[macca72]

The graphics have nothing to do with the match engine though.

ME wise defensive positioning it still a but iffy but other than that, it's been a good year ME wise.

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Ampalaea4 said:

Well, I put the word awful with "" because I think it is awful for a game that sells millions every year. If it was a new crowdfunding indie game, I would say its ok, but from SI and Football Manager I expect much more.

I believe that the two main problems that SI have is:

1.  As soon as SI departed from a line of commentary, where players used their imagination to identify what was happening on the pitch to 2D and then 3D, the flaws in the ME was more easily seen and at the moment there are not enough animations etc. to clearly show what is happening under the hood.

 

2. As other posters have commented FM has no real competition and competition drives inovation.  I know that SI will claim that they are commited to make the best game possible, and I believe they are genuine in that claim, but companies perform better under the pressure of competition.  The code in FM has been developed over thirty or so years and any competition would start at a distinct  disadvantage and if they would have the financial ability to survive is questionable.

[MBarbaric]

46 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

FM has no real competition and competition drives inovation

well NASA has no competition but look what they had accomplished. I simply don't think that is a valid argument. 

[Guest]

Odd example given that NASA's greatest achievement came when competing with the Soviet space agency, as for SI a lack of competition will inevitably slow down innovation & the absolute drive to be the best as it's a one horse race, it's just human nature.

There will be claims that this is rubbish & that the staff are as committed as ever which is true, they do all want to produce the best game possible but much like the real life sport they strive to simulate unrivalled success does lead to stagnation & complacency, with both actually being an aspect within the game they create so to say that SI as a studio are in some way immune from a trait that is commonplace in every industry is illogical.

[Tony Wright 747]

37 minutes ago, Barside said:

Odd example given that NASA's greatest achievement came when competing with the Soviet space agency, as for SI a lack of competition will inevitably slow down innovation & the absolute drive to be the best as it's a one horse race, it's just human nature.

There will be claims that this is rubbish & that the staff are as committed as ever which is true, they do all want to produce the best game possible but much like the real life sport they strive to simulate unrivalled success does lead to stagnation & complacency, with both actually being an aspect within the game they create so to say that SI as a studio are in some way immune from a trait that is commonplace in every industry is illogical.

Put far better than I could Barside

[Guest]

The annoying aspect of complacency is invariably you do not know when you are affected by it, it normally takes an outside factor to shine a light on it to be recognised.

Personally other than the fact i earn more in an industry I enjoy less the other reason I left SI is that I felt I had become less effective as an internal tester than I was raising issues as an end user, some of that may have been down to being too comfortable & not challenging myself but on reflection it took me a good year to realise it & in that time I feel I probably didn't do as good a job as I was capable of when testing FM15.

[MBarbaric]

2 hours ago, Barside said:

a lack of competition will inevitably slow down innovation & the absolute drive to be the best as it's a one horse race, it's just human nature.

that might sound logical, but it isn't actually backed up by substantial evidence. it is far more complicated than simply competition=innovation.

https://www.bancaditalia.it/pubblicazioni/altri-atti-convegni/2014-innovazione-italia/Gomellini.pdf

[DP]

I still find it unacceptable that keepers can’t be sent off in a match simulation and this doesn’t look like it’s veen changed in 18. 

That’s a pretty glaring omission from the simulation of a real life football match. 

[Tony Wright 747]

1 minute ago, DP said:

I still find it unacceptable that keepers can’t be sent off in a match simulation and this doesn’t look like it’s veen changed in 18. 

That’s a pretty glaring omission from the simulation of a real life football match. 

We have only had a 10 second snippet of the match sim, where have you seen this information

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

that might sound logical, but it isn't actually backed up by substantial evidence.

https://www.bancaditalia.it/pubblicazioni/altri-atti-convegni/2014-innovazione-italia/Gomellini.pdf

Admittedly a quick skim read but that undergrad paper outlines & repeats theories from both sides of the debate therefore at first glance it doesn't amount to substantial evidence. 

I will print it out to give it a full read as that's only fair & it could send me off on the kind of reading tangent I enjoy to understand the other works the paper references.

[Bobby_Zamora]

30 minutes ago, DP said:

I still find it unacceptable that keepers can’t be sent off in a match simulation and this doesn’t look like it’s veen changed in 18. 

That’s a pretty glaring omission from the simulation of a real life football match. 

You have seen the ME video before the rest of us :o

[MBarbaric]

it is published by the bank of italy and it gives a good overview on historical research/conclusions (or lack of) in the field. However, it does branch out in numerous directions if you want to get deeper into it.  

2 hours ago, Barside said:

the absolute drive to be the best as it's a one horse race, it's just human nature

As for this remark, I'd suggest you take a look at organizational behaviour within economical theory. it basically connects ecnomy, sociaology and psychology and it also isn't so straight forward as it seems at first glance.

[DP]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

We have only had a 10 second snippet of the match sim, where have you seen this information

 

Well there’s no mention of a new match engine is there? To have goalkeepers sent off relies on a collision engine that isn’t a quick fix. 

Like I said ‘it doesn’t look like it’. I may be surprised but I’m not holding my breath. 

[DP]

1 hour ago, Bobby_Zamora said:

You have seen the ME video before the rest of us :o

I’ve seen enough to suggest the ME hasn’t changed drastically for this edition. 

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, DP said:

I’ve seen enough to suggest the ME hasn’t changed drastically for this edition. 

No, you really haven't.

[DP]

6 minutes ago, herne79 said:

No, you really haven't.

Hasn’t it been confirmed that the match engine has not changed? But the graphics engine has? :/

do you know something I don’t or shall we just resume this conversation when the games out then?