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Neil Brock

Football Manager TV: Scouting

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On first glance I think this is a great improvement. Its certainly more realistic to how scouting works in the real world of football. 

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I've not watched it yet as I'm at work, but I really hope data analysts have some involvement. What I'd really like to see is a scout report that gives us knowledge of his stats and personality (especially with dynamics) and then we can get a data analyst to look at things like dribbles per game, successful dribbles, area where the player has key passes or creates ccc/hc.

Edited by GriffiN94

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Just now, GriffiN94 said:

I've not watched it yet as I'm at work, but I really hope data analysts have some involvement. What I'd really like to see is a scout report that gives us knowledge of his stats and personality (especially with dynamics) and the we can get a data analyst to look at things like dribbles per game, successful dribbles, area where the player has key passes or creates ccc/hc.

Thats whats happening according to this video. :) 

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Guest El Payaso

Seems good. I especially like the fact that you will get more info on scouting the next opponent. Have been finding this part of scouting fairly dull for couple of versions and certainly have hoped an improvement on this aspect. Also I like the feature where you can actually try and find a suitable player rapidly during the final days of the transfer window. 

For me these new features on scouting look promising. :thup:

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Seems like a good idea, though I hope it doesn't end up killing managing below the Conference North. Spending stupid money to find out about North West Counties League players through a scouting package for the league when you manage a team in the North East Counties League for example could end up financially crippling a club very quickly.

Edited by Walshieboy750

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Looks good so far. Can't wait to have a look myself. Noticed the new roles myself, and they are not at all familiar to me. Going to have to do some Googling.

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8 minutes ago, GriffiN94 said:

New player roles: Segundo Volante, Mezzala and Carrilero?

Also spotted a new Inverted Winger role...

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2 minutes ago, XaW said:

Looks good so far. Can't wait to have a look myself. Noticed the new roles myself, and they are not at all familiar to me. Going to have to do some Googling.

They are going to have to getter descriptions absolutely spot on, otherwise people are going be seriously confused with the new roles. Two of the roles are seriously niche (in terms of real life), especially the Mezzala 

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3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They are going to have to getter descriptions absolutely spot on, otherwise people are going be seriously confused with the new roles. Two of the roles are seriously niche (in terms of real life), especially the Mezzala 

Yeah, my googling aren't very helpful, but so far I have found:

Segundo Volante - Box-to-box midfielder but more technical?
Mezzala - Attacking playmaker that runs with the ball?
Carrilero - Central midfielders who covers for full backs?

The Carrileros or shuttlers play in a unique role in which they are neither Central Midfielders or wide midfielders, meaning they can add defensive strength down the wings, which would otherwise be left only to the fullbacks. However, when they are attacking they often stay closer and make incisive runs past the striker. They must be everywhere and therefore have masses of stamina. They are given some creative duty, but their main duty, together with the fullbacks is to create overmanned areas both in defense and offense.  They also close down the opposition midfield, and unlike the anchorman they can close down as much as is needed as they are not responsible for any important defensive space.

Feel free to enlighten me if Google have led me astray.

Edited by XaW

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Looking good. Have been playing FMT on laptop last few seasons but think I might get the full version this year

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Just now, XaW said:

Segundo Volante - Box-to-box midfielder but more technical?
 

Feel free to enlighten me if Google have led me astray.

I would say it's a more defensive minded box-to-box midfielder, perhaps more energetic too. 

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Am really hoping the inverted winger role is a cross between an inside forward and a winger, have wanted that role for years

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Just now, XaW said:

Yeah, my googling aren't very helpful, but so far I have found:

Segundo Volante - Box-to-box midfielder but more technical?
Mezzala - Attacking playmaker that runs with the ball?
Carrilero - Central midfielders who covers for full backs?

Feel free to enlighten me if Google have led me astray.

Mezzala is a very popular role for an Italian speaker, basically most wide CM's in a midfield trio are referred as 'mezzala' in Italy, of course very different type of players play the role in very different ways.

Not sure about the other two, ' Carrilero' might be some kind of central winger role typical of Argentina.

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Guest El Payaso
21 minutes ago, GriffiN94 said:

New player roles: Segundo Volante, Mezzala and Carrilero?

While this is always good I would one day also like to be able to create my own roles. After all someone or some country did also introduce these roles in to the football. Would like to create a Payasito for example. 

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3 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

While this is always good I would one day also like to be able to create my own roles. After all someone or some country did also introduce these roles in to the football. Would like to create a Payasito for example. 

I'll see your Payasito and raise a Yekini

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4 minutes ago, kandersson said:

Mezzala is a very popular role for an Italian speaker, basically most wide CM's in a midfield trio are referred as 'mezzala' in Italy, of course very different type of players play the role in very different ways.

Not sure about the other two, ' Carrilero' might be some kind of central winger role typical of Argentina.

Carrilero is a midfield shuttleler, moving laterally if I remember rightly 

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In italy we refer to Mezz'ala (mezzala) the players that play outside in a three men midfield. It's similar to a box-to-box midfielder, he joins the advanced players in the attack phase and helps the defender in the defensive phase. The Conte's Claudio Marchisio is a classic example of a mezz'ala   

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28 minutes ago, Colorado said:

I would say it's a more defensive minded box-to-box midfielder, perhaps more energetic too. 

He should be coming from deep. Good example I remember was Sami Khedira for Germany bustling from very deep to attack edge of the box. 

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17 minutes ago, Colorado said:

I would say it's a more defensive minded box-to-box midfielder, perhaps more energetic too. 

Segundo volante is usually a technical player, mobile, and quite involved in transitions. He supports marking in mid and is often initiating attacking moves.

He is expected to mark, yes, but the primeiro volante is tasked with heavy duty marking in mid. His attacking duties are vital to him being effective.

In Brazil, we love the ones who are very good forward passers and that are often supporting the attack from the back, appearing in the area when nobody expects them to.

In FM, we will probably look for technical players, who are agile and quick, plus being decent when marking.

There are many ways to use a segundo volante, and the role changes based on formation (4222, 4231, 4132...) and what type of players are around him.

Too many examples in Brazilian football. I used to play as segundo volante (though I wasnt the fastest cat) :D

Super intrigued.

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I'm thinking perhaps it was not intended to reveal the names of the new roles until the tactics video? Maybe it slipped through QA like the contradicting dynamics statements?

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Great video again and (despite having pre-ordered already) seals the deal for me completely in terms of "hype". I was already excited but dynamics and scouting revamp improve two major areas that always somehow annoyed me quite a lot. Considering the new roles and thus already a "proof" for tactical improvements as well, this already is shaping up to be the biggest step forward on a year to year comparison for me personally. Absolutey happy with what I've seen so far (if it works :) )

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Probably not, but it is out there.

I like that it resembles scouting. Using Wyscout and inStat makes scouting 'easier': no need to travel to follow players and you have the ENTIRE base of players in a league accessible. Plus, WyScout covers a lot of U18, U15 competitions, so you can have access to youth too. But it is hard to see how FM is going to add the data analyst to a teeth.

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1 minute ago, zehessc said:

Great video again and (despite having pre-ordered already) seals the deal for me completely in terms of "hype". I was already excited but dynamics and scouting revamp improve two major areas that always somehow annoyed me quite a lot. Considering the new roles and thus already a "proof" for tactical improvements as well, this already is shaping up to be the biggest step forward on a year to year comparison for me personally. Absolutey happy with what I've seen so far (if it works :) )

I was going to start a new game just to pass the time, but, as always, I can't. Gotta wait for the new version.

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I do wonder how much difference they'll REALLY be between the Mezzala, Box to Box, Central Midfield/Support etc or is it just fashionable to give a standard midfield support role a 'latin' name.  

Will anyone be able to spot distinctive Mezzala behavior? Would certain PPM's turn our Mezzala into a Box to Box or vice versa?

Will the wide midfielders in a midfield 3 at Bognor Regis Town realise they're supposed to be Mezzalas?

I've not been able to watch the video yet but i'm assuming there is no mention of a 'blank' role we can configure as we see fit?

 

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This looks to tick every box in my list of desired changes to scouted, looking forward to giving it a go. 

Props to @Keith Flannery & @Ben Kenney for this feature. (Assume they’re both still involved in this area & apologies to any new staff I’ve not mentioned.

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1 hour ago, Mr U Rosler said:

I do wonder how much difference they'll REALLY be between the Mezzala, Box to Box, Central Midfield/Support etc or is it just fashionable to give a standard midfield support role a 'latin' name.  

Will anyone be able to spot distinctive Mezzala behavior? Would certain PPM's turn our Mezzala into a Box to Box or vice versa?

Will the wide midfielders in a midfield 3 at Bognor Regis Town realise they're supposed to be Mezzalas?

I've not been able to watch the video yet but i'm assuming there is no mention of a 'blank' role we can configure as we see fit?

 

I think the Central Midfielder role is already a generic 'blank' role for midfield. I hope to see new generic 'wide attacker' (AML/R)  and 'striker' roles though.

As for new roles, personally I feel wide CM's in three man midfield positions were lacking a bit of personality and especially lateral movement (I think CM position could not even run wide with the ball), so if mezzala and carrileros can provide a bit of that (and maybe provide cover for attacking full backs) I'm fine with that :)

I also hope to see more hardcoded, specific behavior for some of these specialist roles (like HB role already has), otherwise I'd agree most roles will be very similar to each other (likely a couple of PI's away).

 

Edited by kandersson

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Guest El Payaso
23 minutes ago, Mr U Rosler said:

I do wonder how much difference they'll REALLY be between the Mezzala, Box to Box, Central Midfield/Support etc or is it just fashionable to give a standard midfield support role a 'latin' name.  

Will anyone be able to spot distinctive Mezzala behavior? Would certain PPM's turn our Mezzala into a Box to Box or vice versa?

Will the wide midfielders in a midfield 3 at Bognor Regis Town realise they're supposed to be Mezzalas?

I've not been able to watch the video yet but i'm assuming there is no mention of a 'blank' role we can configure as we see fit?

 

Depends on how you will determine real differences. I think that even currently those players who view matches on full or comprehensive can notice some, even clear, differences between roles but but to be honest these 'clear' differences haven't really appeared in terms of statistics or showing up in the highlights too well. That is one of the reasons why I said about the match engine that it's a bit of grey mass. 

Would be really nice if one day you could actually see a certain player with right attributes and in right type of system to actually flourish even in the DM position and you could actually see it by watching the games and watching the stats. Imagine you have like two careers up and while employing the same role in DM position you can notice that "hey in my other career the player really struggles with his performances in this position and role. While in the other this different player in different system is the best performer of my team." And this for me is not the case in the game while IRL for example midfielders like Lampard, Gerrard or even Nainngolan were/are not one out of the bottle even during highlights and especially statistically. IRL Kante's injury for Chelsea is disaster while on FM you can just replace him by using Bakayoko and Fabregas and nothing negative happens in terms of team's performance. 

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I'm not really into all the funky Italian/Spanish/South American wizardry. I'm very much bread and butter, old school, Mike Bassett-esque.

Excited to see how the inverted wingers play out.

Inverted Wingers, I'm hoping, are the answer to a thread I started a while ago about having "wrong footed" wingers who - instead of going down the line, check their run, cut inside, and send in an in-swinging cross.

Edit: And when I say cut inside, I don't mean go on a mazy run, I mean literally a stride or two.

Edited by Atarin

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I hope I can still just run a search and see all the top players in the game world even if I’m a conference manager? 

 

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Just now, DP said:

I hope I can still just run a search and see all the top players in the game world even if I’m a conference manager? 

 

On one level, I imagine so. I mean, even if you manage in the 16th tier of Nigerian football you're going to know exactly who Lionel Messia & Ronaldo are. On the other hand, the scouting function is meant to assist you in recruitment and so as realistic as it would be to have intimate knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of Lionel Messi I doesn't real help you at all. Its pretty irrelevant information when you're trying to find players to sign.

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1 hour ago, Mr U Rosler said:

I do wonder how much difference they'll REALLY be between the Mezzala, Box to Box, Central Midfield/Support etc or is it just fashionable to give a standard midfield support role a 'latin' name.  

Will anyone be able to spot distinctive Mezzala behavior? Would certain PPM's turn our Mezzala into a Box to Box or vice versa?

Will the wide midfielders in a midfield 3 at Bognor Regis Town realise they're supposed to be Mezzalas?

I've not been able to watch the video yet but i'm assuming there is no mention of a 'blank' role we can configure as we see fit?

 

There is. Its the center midfielder.

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14 minutes ago, apvmoreira said:

There is. Its the center midfielder.

Unless I want a CM/D without Hold Position AND Close Down More hardcoded.

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2 hours ago, kandersson said:

As for new roles, personally I feel wide CM's in three man midfield positions were lacking a bit of personality and especially lateral movement (I think CM position could not even run wide with the ball), so if mezzala and carrileros can provide a bit of that (and maybe provide cover for attacking full backs) I'm fine with that :)

Depends on how you play, I have little problem getting the wider midfielders in my trio of central players to move into spaces on the flanks. They are also provide decent cover for fullbacks who roam up the pitch. That being said, anything that can improve things is welcome, and I will wait until we get more info on these and focus on the video at hand.

Seems like it has been a lot of changes to the scouting system, and given that we had data analysts in the this current version without needing them, I assume it has been in the works for some time and so should be polished. I love the idea of having a realistic scouting system where you cannot just trawl through every player in the world and check them out. Paying to know more makes sense. All in all, it looks like a very interesting new addition.

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Potentially I have egg on my face for slamming dynamics and assuming it would be the biggest change.

The new scouting and potential new roles look really enticing :applause:

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Hmm, very interesting, it defo needs a revamp so glad they have worked on it this year.

 

I hope it makes things less complex/less time consuming, I found squad building too easy in previous FM's, but it requires alot of time consuming work.  Would be nice this year if you can find suitable targets quicker, but there are less off them (if that makes sense!).  Before I had to keep scouting a large number of players picked out from largre reports to try and finally find some good ones.

Also as someone above has said I'm very interested to see how this pans out for lower league management.

Can't wait to try it out!  

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This is a very good improvment for scouting. :applause::applause:

Apart from that, the most annoying about scouting screen was that it was very slow in processing when searching or entering the scouting screen.

I remember myself also reporting this issue in the bug forums, I hope there will be an improvement for that.

Edited by MHovel

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The changes look very interesting. One question though: Is the number in the magnifying glass supposed to represent an absolute rating of the player (e.g. CA/PA) or a relative to your team (i.e. similar to the stars)? If it's the latter, what's the difference with the star system? If it's the former, I'm happy :)

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41 minutes ago, tmpusr said:

The changes look very interesting. One question though: Is the number in the magnifying glass supposed to represent an absolute rating of the player (e.g. CA/PA) or a relative to your team (i.e. similar to the stars)? If it's the latter, what's the difference with the star system? If it's the former, I'm happy :)

No, only your knowledge of the player, the starts rating

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