Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community
decapitated

Overrated/Underrated players in FM2017

Recommended Posts

Which players have been in your view have had their stats overrated or underrated in fm 2017 and how would you like their stats to change in fm 2018. I know this is a subjective matter and ultimately its down to the fm scouts, but I thought it would be a good subject for discussion. :)

I think for overrated it would have to be Saido Berahino. Currently he usually ends up one of the best English strikers in the late 2010s/early 2020s, playing for the top clubs, and constant presence in the England side. 2 or 3 years ago judged from how he was playing this might have been the case, but the acrimonious end of his career at WBA and a poor start at Stoke means that its unlikely he'll end up with Arsenal, Liverpool, or Real Madrid as has happen in some of my saves, and its entirely possible he'll end up representing Burundi rather than England internationally and never play for a top English club.

I would like to see some of the England U20 side which won the U20 world cup have higher potentials in FM2018 especially Solanke, Woodman and Calvert-Lewin. Although their success in South Korea wasn't expected, I think theres more chance of one of those three being in the England 2020 squad than Berahino. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ayoze Perez for years. Hasn't done anything to justify those attributes or potential and always becomes really good in the game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Douglas Costa is (technical attributes wise) massively underrated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, nico_france said:

In every version of the game I'm always surprised how english based players are rated and especially overrated 

I just can't understand why a player like Leighton Baines has top player attributes for years in every version of the game for example 

Same goes for a lot of EPL ans Championship teams and players, year after year

I can perfectly understand that SI core fans might be found in the Uk, but it sounds quite unfair to me regarding others top League in Europe

Main issue here is consistency of researchers imho. German researchers seem to be quite strict for example, so a lot of players based in Germany  tend to have relatively low technical attributes - even very gifted players (Aubameyang has like 11 dribbling and 12 technique!)

EPL is probably the best league irl, and it does feature some of the best footballers, though I agree that english players in particular seem to be traditionally overrated in FM - especially their technical attributes (typically not their strongest area irl) compared to other countries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Might also have something to do with the amount of researchers. With every Premier league team there is a head researcher and the attributes are very well 'scouted' and everything is very well thought. 

On the other hand for example last year's original database had zero to very few attribute and ability chances for major club like Athletic Bilbao in Spain and this only changed after us in the community complained about it and gave our opinions about the changes. 

I don't know if this is the case in every big league but at least as an Athletic fan I felt and still feel that the team's players' attributes are trailing behind and not up to date. 

Would also disagree on Premier league being the best league but that discussion doesn't belong into this thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Might also have something to do with the amount of researchers. With every Premier league team there is a head researcher and the attributes are very well 'scouted' and everything is very well thought. 

On the other hand for example last year's original database had zero to very few attribute and ability chances for major club like Athletic Bilbao in Spain and this only changed after us in the community complained about it and gave our opinions about the changes. 

I don't know if this is the case in every big league but at least as an Athletic fan I felt and still feel that the team's players' attributes are trailing behind and not up to date. 

Would also disagree on Premier league being the best league but that discussion doesn't belong into this thread. 

I find in every FM, almost immediately the english teams become dominate in European, even with all of the major leagues active etc etc. On my FM17 save, the EPL's coefficient every year is normally around 25-30 where as Spain, Germany, Italy etc all hover around the 17-20 mark. Obviously the big money in the EPL, plus Guardiola, Mourinho etc, it does look like this could happen in real life, but it happened in older FMs as well so not sure it's all down to the money increase this year.

Certainly we've discussed Athletic's players in depth before, and even some senior players were not done well last season (e.g. Kepa in particular), let alone youth players. I'd argue Kepa was perhaps the most underrated youngster on FM17

Edited by bowieinspace

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, bowieinspace said:

I find in every FM, almost immediately the english teams become dominate in European, even with all of the major leagues active etc etc. 

Might feel far fetched but this probably has also something to do with the ME that seems to favor heavily the physical attributes compared to intelligence. Especially Tottenham on FM 2017 was probably the most devastating team I've seen during my saves. Didn't really play in EPL but saw them wiping the floor with teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona in Europe and creating massive amount of shots and chances even against bigger teams with the Pocchettino 4-2-3-1. 

But yeah in terms of attributes there certainly are issues with the attributes and don't see for example any sense why someone like Alberto Moreno has higher defensive attributes than for example Oscar de Marcos. Moreno still hadn't established himself defensively during season 16/17 while De Marcos (and Lekue) have been performing in better league as full backs for years and both are considered strong defensively in real life. Moreno actually was so bad last season that even Klopp was afraid to use him. Now I'm not saying that Moreno is rated too highly but instead Lekue and De Marcos haven't been upgraded while they definitely deserve to be along with many other Athletic players. And probably there are other teams also outside England that are not up to date.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Might feel far fetched but this probably has also something to do with the ME that seems to favor heavily the physical attributes compared to intelligence. Especially Tottenham on FM 2017 was probably the most devastating team I've seen during my saves. Didn't really play in EPL but saw them wiping the floor with teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona in Europe and creating massive amount of shots and chances even against bigger teams with the Pocchettino 4-2-3-1. 

But yeah in terms of attributes there certainly are issues with the attributes and don't see for example any sense why someone like Alberto Moreno has higher defensive attributes than for example Oscar de Marcos. Moreno still hadn't established himself defensively during season 16/17 while De Marcos (and Lekue) have been performing in better league as full backs for years and both are considered strong defensively in real life. Moreno actually was so bad last season that even Klopp was afraid to use him. Now I'm not saying that Moreno is rated too highly but instead Lekue and De Marcos haven't been upgraded while they definitely deserve to be along with many other Athletic players. And probably there are other teams also outside England that are not up to date.

Haha the Moreno/De Marcos comparison is amazing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/10/2017 at 17:56, El Payaso said:

Ayoze Perez for years. Hasn't done anything to justify those attributes or potential and always becomes really good in the game. 

Never in my games, is always sold 1st season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

John Guidetti overrated - sign him for about £8m and he's scoring 40+ a season for me in a Liverpool save.

 

Edited by westy8chimp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

John Guidetti overrated - sign him for about £8m and he's scoring 40+ a season for me in a Liverpool save.

 

Celta on the whole were bumped following one good season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most underrated is Kylian Mbappe. He should get a CA boost of at least 50 this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arsenal and Tottenham players are way too overrated. Giroud is a beast like Ibrahimović ;)

Same goes to Celta Vigo - way too many good players, and Sporting  CP with their monsters like Geraldes, Gelson Martins,  Ruben Semedo, Adrien Silva, Mattheus Pereira, WIlliam Carvalho, Iuri Medeiros, Daniel Pondence, Joao Palhimha. When looked at attributes of Semedo, Gelson, Geraldes Adrien and Mattheus after 1 y of training , they looks like players who's able to be one of the best in best EU Teams like Real etc. 

On the other hand USA after few years always become one of the greatest team, because of their highly professional and highly potential regens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sid1984 said:

Most underrated is Kylian Mbappe. He should get a CA boost of at least 50 this year.

I am more than sure he will get it 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patrick roberts is really good in the games, pep should call him back from loan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Basically, anything coming from England appears to be highly overrated, at least in comparison to other teams in the world. The Champions League makes for rather sorry watching in the game, once again, still, after all these years. In my first season, the Champions League semi-final was three quarters English (I wasn't involved at all, as the Liverpool manager), and Arsenal beat Real Madrid 3-7 away at one point. (No red cards, not even to Sergio Ramos.)

 

I agree that a one-off could always happen to anyone against anyone else, basically. But the continued dominance of the English teams against pretty much any other teams reflects rather poorly on something.

 

Incidentally, I'm not sure if it's only the research. It's also the match engine: I frequently have to watch Coutinho and Firmino play ping-pong headers to each other. They would NEVER do that in real life, they really like to keep the ball on the ground. It seems that all teams tend to use headers a lot more than they should, and all long passes seem to be high passes as well.

Edited by xzar_monty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/3/2017 at 11:35, enigmatic said:

I think most Liverpool fans would say it's Moreno being significantly overrated...

 

The problem is that Moreno does have good stats and skills, he's just wildly inconsistent and makes very poor decisions. Apparently, the "positioning" and "decisions" attributes, in and of themselves, don't make that much of a difference. But this is conjecture on my part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dybala is the most overrated player ever, while Dusan Vlahovic is the most underrated player

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, MirsoFM said:

Dybala is the most overrated player ever, while Dusan Vlahovic is the most underrated player

For this is not needed an update, you can fix your problem just watching matches :)
AN underrated player is Caldara. It's not something exaggerated as with Mbappè but I hope he will get too an upgrade in fm 2018 because is the best young italian cb in this moment

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 06. 10. 2017. at 12:43, ParanoidBuddha said:

For this is not needed an update, you can fix your problem just watching matches :)
AN underrated player is Caldara. It's not something exaggerated as with Mbappè but I hope he will get too an upgrade in fm 2018 because is the best young italian cb in this moment

i understand that you support Juventus so you think that Dybala is not overrated/overpowered in FM17, but the fact is that Dzeko scored more goals and made more assists in Italy then Dybala before FM17 was even released, and hes still scores more then him, so there was no point to make Dybala so overpowered in game at all. Sure, we can always support our fav players, but if we talk about overrated/underrated players in FM17 game then we must use real life statistics and compare them with in-game performance, because thats what makes FM the best football manager simulation game, so you are wrong.

Or, maybe you just like the fact that you can take Dybala in FM17 and he scores over 60 goals makes over 20 assists with average in-game teammates and with average in-game tactics.

Edited by MirsoFM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think Jamie Forrest from Celtic is underrated and given their performances in qualifying I think a stats increase for players from the Syrian and Ugandan national teams might be an idea. 

Edited by decapitated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

As footballers I would say that Dybala is quite a bit better as you can see Dzeko a little bit one dimensional and lacking technical attributes. But I would say that the major problem with these two is the ME and what type of players the ME seems to favor. Dzeko will always be the type of player that you have to find the solution to make him score while Dybala basically does it automatically.

 

Yep. The ME strongly favors certain types of players over others. In a way, I suppose, that's unavoidable, because while the match engine is good, there's only so much it can do.

 

To give another example not related to goalscoring: in real life, it is very difficult to get the ball off Philippe Coutinho, and almost impossible to take it from Andres Iniesta. In the FM2017 match engine, however, both of these players lose the ball very easily. Why? My diagnosis is that it's simply because they are neither strong nor tall. Big guys dominate small guys. Strength dominates skill. It's a shame, but there you go.

 

This, I think, is also the reason why I have never had any difficulties beating Barcelona (home or away) with my Liverpool team. It doesn't matter that they have Messi and Neymar. My players are bigger and stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2017 at 12:35, MirsoFM said:

but the fact is that Dzeko scored more goals and made more assists in Italy then Dybala before FM17 was even released

What? From 2015-2016 Dzeko has an average of 1 goal every 129mins while Dybala 120mins playing from last season as CAM. 
And I don't need to add that Dybala scored more goals from outside the penalty area, created more chances, had a way better passes accuracy etc right? :) 

Ps: before FM17 was even released (then the season 2015-2016) Dzeko made 8 goals and 5 assists, Dybala 22 goals and 9 assists.

Edited by ParanoidBuddha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arsenal in general seem to overrated. And every FM seems to have 300 or so wonderkid midfielders which isn't the case at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... Alvaro Odriozola seems to be massive underrated.

In my last game he was a free agent and my best scout rated his potential as good championship  player.

What a development in the last 6 months :applause:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/10/2017 at 22:41, nico_france said:

In every version of the game I'm always surprised how english based players are rated and especially overrated 

I just can't understand why a player like Leighton Baines has top player attributes for years in every version of the game for example 

Same goes for a lot of EPL ans Championship teams and players, year after year

I can perfectly understand that SI core fans might be found in the Uk, but it sounds quite unfair to me regarding others top League in Europe

Because he was a very good wingback/left back who took a good freekick sometimes?

He wasn't slow (hence 13/14 pace). Can cross.

FM17 stats show he's on the decline

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/10/2017 at 12:25, CaptainSa said:

Arsenal in general seem to overrated. And every FM seems to have 300 or so wonderkid midfielders which isn't the case at all.

Simply not true at least in the FM17 edition. They have two wonder kids, Jeff Reine Adelaide and Reiss Nelson who have a PA of

Spoiler

-85

and a third potentially decent young player in Vlad Dragomir who has an

Spoiler

-8

I would actually expect downgrades to some of their first team squad players and improvements to other young players such as Nketiah and Mcguane.

on a side note i am interested to see if the Liverpool researcher changes Oxlade Chamberlains stats at all in the next FM

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, the research system is wrong, because it's now based on teams, when it should be based on players abilities.

The current system, for those who didn't know it, it's based on CA16 for all teams, that is the CA's average of the 16 strongest players of each team, which is decided on the team's performance in reality. This means that for some teams with a high CA 16 average, certain players will be "pumped" and overrated in the game to fall back into the preset range, and on the other hand, some players who prove to be valid are penalized because they play in teams with a low CA16.

Sturaro is a evident example of this, overrated player because he plays in a team with a very high CA16, and in fact in the game he is stronger than players such as Goretzka, Zielinski or Dahoud for example.

In my view, one should first judge the individual skills of each player, and only after intervening on CAs based on where they play, trying to balance the team's average, as well as skills among the players, not to get into crazy discordances (famous the example of Ranocchia with the same acceleration of Ronaldo and Bale on FM16). :D

Edited by Dave1990

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SteveUK said:

Simply not true at least in the FM17 edition. They have two wonder kids, Jeff Reine Adelaide and Reiss Nelson who have a PA of

  Reveal hidden contents

-85

and a third potentially decent young player in Vlad Dragomir who has an

  Reveal hidden contents

-8

I would actually expect downgrades to some of their first team squad players and improvements to other young players such as Nketiah and Mcguane.

on a side note i am interested to see if the Liverpool researcher changes Oxlade Chamberlains stats at all in the next FM

 

I totally missed out the word 'Italy' in my post. My bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2017 at 11:56, MirsoFM said:

Dybala is the most overrated player ever

Dybala overrated? He is an amazing footballer dude!
Hahaha, even I agree with the following (and I hate Juventus):

On 10/6/2017 at 13:43, ParanoidBuddha said:

For this is not needed an update, you can fix your problem just watching matches :)


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎01‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 17:56, El Payaso said:

Ayoze Perez for years. Hasn't done anything to justify those attributes or potential and always becomes really good in the game. 

You're right, he always scores against me, even when I'm thrashing Newcastle by 5, he'll pop up and nick a goal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Dave1990 said:

The current system, for those who didn't know it, it's based on CA16 for all teams, that is the CA's average of the 16 strongest players of each team, which is decided on the team's performance in reality. This means that for some teams with a high CA 16 average, certain players will be "pumped" and overrated in the game to fall back into the preset range, and on the other hand, some players who prove to be valid are penalized because they play in teams with a low CA16.

Where have you read this stuff? I've never heard about this and it contradicts the whole research system.  

The attributes are not automatically generated because it's the responsibility of the researcher.

 

 

Edited by Hansaplast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Hansaplast said:

Where have you read this stuff? I've never heard about this and it contradicts the whole research system.  

The attributes are not automatically generated because it's the responsibility of the researcher.

 

 

I didn't say that the attributes are generated automatically, I said that every researcher has a scale of values to follow for each team, which is very different.

I use Sturaro's example to make me understand: if Sturaro played for Genoa, he would have a CA that wouldn't exceed 135 because he is a mediocre player, but as he plays in Juve, he has a CA of 144 while remaining the same mediocre player. The problem is basically this, is considered more important where the player plays than how plays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Dave1990 said:

I didn't say that the attributes are generated automatically, I said that every researcher has a scale of values to follow for each team, which is very different.

I use Sturaro's example to make me understand: if Sturaro played for Genoa, he would have a CA that wouldn't exceed 135 because he is a mediocre player, but as he plays in Juve, he has a CA of 144 while remaining the same mediocre player. The problem is basically this, is considered more important where the player plays than how plays.

I mean you're so far off the mark, so incomprehensibly wrong that you might as well be trying to argue the world is flat or the moon is made out of cheese.

I've never been told I've got to alter a players ratings because they play for Stoke. In fact, it has no bearing on anything I do what a player at Arsenal, Man City, Burnley, Juventus, Genoa or anyone else is rated at. 

We have a loose set of guidelines, that basically reinforce the idea that for example, Stoke aren't the best team in the world. But we're also not the worst team in the world. We're somewhere in between, and the guidelines help put that into context, particularly for researchers who are new to the role. I don't ignore the guidelines, but I rate every player as I see fit and make the argument on the basis of what I believe about that player and welcome the thoughts/comparisons and insights of others involved in the process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, santy001 said:

I mean you're so far off the mark, so incomprehensibly wrong that you might as well be trying to argue the world is flat or the moon is made out of cheese.

I've never been told I've got to alter a players ratings because they play for Stoke. In fact, it has no bearing on anything I do what a player at Arsenal, Man City, Burnley, Juventus, Genoa or anyone else is rated at. 

We have a loose set of guidelines, that basically reinforce the idea that for example, Stoke aren't the best team in the world. But we're also not the worst team in the world. We're somewhere in between, and the guidelines help put that into context, particularly for researchers who are new to the role. I don't ignore the guidelines, but I rate every player as I see fit and make the argument on the basis of what I believe about that player and welcome the thoughts/comparisons and insights of others involved in the process.

I didn't say that all players that passes from a medium team to a big team are upgraded, like I didn't say that all the players that passes from a strong team to a poor team are depotenziated. However, you have confirmed that the rating is based on the teams and I continue to think that this is wrong, because the players make the teams and not the other way round.

I haven't even said that teams guidelines should be eliminated, indeed them are essential, but in my view this should be a step beyond player's attribute decisions, not a previous stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

overrated: every arsenal player (and every epl team for that matter)

their attributes are all so high they should all be automatic starters for barca or real.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel that the German researchers are more patient. They usually take their time with their ratings of players. It may take a year or even two before improved players are given small attributes increment.

English researchers (who are pretty generous with mental attributes ) tend to adjust their players attributes more frequently, causing some of the players to be overrated and when they failed to perform (like Leicester last season), they also fail to bring them back down to the level they probably belongs to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/1/2017 at 17:56, El Payaso said:

Ayoze Perez for years. Hasn't done anything to justify those attributes or potential and always becomes really good in the game. 

He was phenomenal in 16 if I remember right.

 

27 minutes ago, vasilli07 said:

I feel that the German researchers are more patient. They usually take their time with their ratings of players. It may take a year or even two before improved players are given small attributes increment.

English researchers (who are pretty generous with mental attributes ) tend to adjust their players attributes more frequently, causing some of the players to be overrated and when they failed to perform (like Leicester last season), they also fail to bring them back down to the level they probably belongs to.

 

I think a lot of players get boosts, when they're in good form and not necessarily that good in quality. In my view players in the Premier League are a bit too over-rated at times. But I don't think it is always the PL researcher's fault. Depay was fantastic in 16, and I think he was given his attributes by his previous club's researcher over in Holland. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The "Overrated England" phenomenon is getting a bit silly in my game. Real Madrid didn't do well in their Champions League group and had to continue in the Europa League, where they got their butt very seriously kicked by... West Ham.

 

The Champions League semi-final stage is, again, English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×