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Dynamics seems a bit like social media when introduced for fm17: a nice add but a few weeks after no one cared about anymore. Still, I considered it - dynamics - an important part of the team's performance.

Wondering how this Dynamics new addition came to life ? or how the player groups were put together ? did the research teams participate on this ?

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1 minute ago, OldTimer said:

Does anyone know if dynamics will be in Touch or is it just FM only? It was a bit crazy on FMT 17 that promises were included in the version. However, there was no screen to view the promises you've made. (like there was on the full FM). The old pen and paper had to come out, to stop me from upsetting the players. Looking forward to getting some Touch news and maybe a few screenshots.

If FMT is to remain true to its original design concept of sticking to the core aspects of transfers, training & tactics my opinion is that dynamics as shown should not be part of that game mode, tbh promises shouldn’t have been in there either so your guess is as good as mine.

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Re: Pre-ordering or not? Trying to patronize somebody about your own standards and imposing your world views onto everybody else is always going to result in a car crash. For the most obvious examples, see the kindergarten that is lots of politics. For the worst that happens on this, check the current Steam forums, car crashes all themselves.   Humans are individuals. They will have their reasons. And that's fine. No matter how much you like / loathe something, chances are, you'll find somebody who think it sucks (and vice versa).

I typically always wait for a demo too, that isn't due to not trusting SI though. It's partly to do with that from experience, any annual series doesn't differ much from release to release. It's also that management games have longevity. You put a hundred hours plus into each release, typically, and you easily can. I've played these things since the latter 1980s/1990s, and historically switched games every third, fourth year. FM was the first where I bought a version that was but 12 months apart.  I think the majority of FM players actually fall under this. Some years ago SI said that according to their data, long-term players would typically buy every 2nd release or thereabouts as far as I recall.

However, definitely see the value in a loyalty "scheme". Also from a player perspective. I am not much a DLC guy. But recently I pre-ordered a DLC of a game made by Arkane Studios, as from long-term experience, they are amongst the few developers on the AAA front who don't treat their players as if they had never played a game before, which sounds patronizing, but to me is becoming increasingly common. Also, their releases are always very solid. However, they're oft not selling as much as they deserve to. The studio multiple times risked going out of business, even. Hence a no-brainer to me.

Dynamics looking decent, but as asked by others too: Will AI managers be able to cope with this? Including us being able to min/max/game the system, same as any. A few years ago any added system/feedback was considered to have the power to "unbalance the human player's role in the game world", which is a major thing in the original Collyer Brother's design templates. As such I'm sure it was considered when doing it. :)
 

Edited by Svenc

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11 minutes ago, Barside said:

I agree that the demo is the way to go if recent ME’s have left you underwhelmed as it’s the ME that invariably defines long term enjoyment, which, and drifting a little OT here, means the use of loyalty when some reference pre-order discounts is unfair & can draw annoyance from those who are playing the waiting game before making a purchasing decision.

Without wanting to get into semantics, we've not pushed this as a "loyalty" bonus. If people want to wait for the demo - that's their right and that's why we put it out there. Likewise if they want to take up the offer.

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21 minutes ago, Stuart Warren said:

Without wanting to get into semantics, we've not pushed this as a "loyalty" bonus. If people want to wait for the demo - that's their right and that's why we put it out there. Likewise if they want to take up the offer.

I'm sorry for saying this, but in a way it is a loyalty bonus. The discount ends nearly or less from the game release, with little information released (two videos). Not to mention the discount started few weeks ago before the first video was release. It is a loyalty bonus, no matter if you call it another name.

Even if the discount had no end date it still is a loyalty program, the key thing here is if we have the previous games you get a discount, that is loyalty bonus.

anyway, just to get this small note. Please continue to discuss Dynamics. :)

Edited by grade

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22 minutes ago, Stuart Warren said:

Without wanting to get into semantics, we've not pushed this as a "loyalty" bonus. If people want to wait for the demo - that's their right and that's why we put it out there. Likewise if they want to take up the offer.

I know SI haven’t & was referring to others members of the forum who have taken that viewpoint or narrative based on marketing language used such as contract renewal which inadvertently cunjures an image of loyalty.

Any repeat customer can be called loyal regardless of when they choose to make their purchase & it would be nice if those who choose to directly or indirectly deride others who are not taking the pre-purchase discount as lacking product loyalty, I think it’s starting to form an ember of unpleasant internet behaviour.

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1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

A little bit bemused about everyone saying they won't be pre-ordering and everyone else patting them on the back for it...

If the match engine is your main focus, surely you'd never pre order, and always wait for the demo, irrespective of what any video ever said, because a playthrough is the only real way you can evaluate the match engine. 

Seems pretty standard to not pre order if that's your main focus of 

Exactly what I do, and the reason I didn't but FM17

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I'm waiting for 3D match teaser. It was said that 3D engine would be overhauled, but to be honest from that short snapshot it looks like the same engine as years before with just only the legendary :D 2000+ new animations.

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I could not care less if I tried whether someone is pre-ordering or not.  I'll pre order and buy it on release same as i have done every year. It is a habit now.   

 

Plus - It's nice to get the beta 2 weeks early and help iron out any bugs/errors for day 1 

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1 hour ago, pedrosantos said:

Dynamics seems a bit like social media when introduced for fm17: a nice add but a few weeks after no one cared about anymore. Still, I considered it - dynamics - an important part of the team's performance.

Wondering how this Dynamics new addition came to life ? or how the player groups were put together ? did the research teams participate on this ?

Social feed idea is good, perhaps.  But for the first few days of release I browsed it quite a lot, now I do occasionally.   I think most people were annoyed the tweets were always   positive, neutral and negative.   

 

And in some games, say Hazard could score 5 goals and get a 10.0 rating, and a tweet will still say "Hazard was average, steady on"   It needs tweaking slightly, but the idea is good

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Really pleased with the look of Dynamics, I think it might take a while before it's polished but it's a great step forward and I think will make FM more realistic as squad building will be harder now. 

Last FM's it felt too easy to get players in and constantly improve the squad with little issues, now I think it will be tougher as you'll need to manage the squad cohesion better.

 

Nothing but positive from me for FM18, can't wait.  This is the only computer game I ever play.

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im not sure how these dynamics will work, my fear is that it will ruin how the game works if its not done properly. im not even sure this is what the game needed. i would love them to announce that they have sorted the ai out and the ai now has differennt tactic. im not sure i ever saw the pc go long ball . or just get wingers to cross early or get to by line. i would also love to see players who are good at dribbling actually dribble in the middle of the park, you see wingers go by players on the wings but in the middle of the park you never see a player take on 3 or 4 players and go on a mazy dribble in the middle. would love to see good tactical managers able to counter your tactics and play a different way depending on the team they are playing. would love to see teams actually play top youngsters instead of just seeing them rot in the reserves. the ai of the teams doesnt seem to be able to produce good young kids. would love to see top teams pay over the top like in real life for players. would love to see teams who have a reputation of bringing through young kids carry this on. would love to see how the dynamic will work with the ai managers and how the relationships are in the media like wenger and fergie and mourinho and erm everyone. i would love to see young kids be patient when coming through. would like to see mokre young kids come through as not enough come through with high pa. 

 

you know what i would do if i was si is when the young kids get added to the game each year at each time i think the game should have to contact the servers at si and then download the kids from si so everyoine would get the same bunch of kids each year. this way the guys at si can control the kids coming through and then its up to the people who play the game as to how the kids workout

Edited by jamessmith010101

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I wanted to watch the second video in the hope it would make up my mind, But I'm constantly second guessing myself do i pre order or not or do i not as i could stick with 17. Dynamics look a good addition to the game. As to now I'm still undecided 

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49 minutes ago, ChelseaSince86 said:

Social feed idea is good, perhaps.  But for the first few days of release I browsed it quite a lot, now I do occasionally.   I think most people were annoyed the tweets were always   positive, neutral and negative.   

 

And in some games, say Hazard could score 5 goals and get a 10.0 rating, and a tweet will still say "Hazard was average, steady on"   It needs tweaking slightly, but the idea is good

Agree, its good and something that it is present in everyday life of a football player and a club. Its the same with Dynamics, its a good improvement (one could argue it should have been implemented a lot sooner) regarding player complains and the role thar player groups have in the locker room. So, personaly, I think its a very nice step in the right direction from SI. My doubts are more related to the specifics of the players and the building with their status, if this is something that it was done with the participation of the Research Teams of each country it would make sense because these are the guys that have a better knowledge of each country specifics (culture, squads, player relations, player groups, and so on).

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I have put 800 hours in to FM17 and believe it to be the best version to date. In terms of dynamics, it feels like I've gone to a nice restaurant and ordered a steak, only to be served an interesting looking lasagna. I'm not saying I won't like the lasagna, but it's not what I ordered so I may not tip.

I'm a firm believer that before moving on to new features, the task in hand should be to improve what already exists:

- Match engine animations are stuck in dark ages and need an overhaul

- The prevalence of completely unnecessary long shots needs to be toned down

- Tactics are player roles are inflexible, and the options available do not reflect current trends (especially pressing styles)

- Tactical advice from staff is useless and repetitive

- Player interaction and associated dialogue options  are too binary and childish

- Press conferences are the olive stone in the fruit salad. Please make them better or just get rid

 

Edited by rdbayly

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I hope that to some extent one of the senarios for this dynamics is some players aren’t part of a social circle but that this isn’t negative and that they just do their job. I can work with my colleagues to a very high level without having to want to be their friends and socialise  

Similarly you shouldn’t need to have a team be best mates to play well - some of the best teams have been on the edge of hating each other. The Dutch spring to mind. 

 

 

Edited by mdshep

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Cole & Sheringham is the well known example in the premier league era of strike partners who were barely on speaking terms but who were professional enough to get the job done on the pitch & I imagine they are not a rarity in professional football, fingers crossed that the feature is not over-egged & does not create conflict for conflict's sake or that it more often than not results in excessively sub-par match performances because that would feel like unrealistic playground behaviour.

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6 hours ago, mdshep said:

I hope that to some extent one of the senarios for this dynamics is some players aren’t part of a social circle but that this isn’t negative and that they just do their job. I can work with my colleagues to a very high level without having to want to be their friends and socialise  

Similarly you shouldn’t need to have a team be best mates to play well - some of the best teams have been on the edge of hating each other. The Dutch spring to mind.

Imagine if dynamics leads to a Dyer-Bowyer situation though. :D

 

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7 hours ago, Barside said:

Cole & Sheringham is the well known example in the premier league era of strike partners who were barely on speaking terms but who were professional enough to get the job done on the pitch & I imagine they are not a rarity in professional football, fingers crossed that the feature is not over-egged & does not create conflict for conflict's sake or that it more often than not results in excessively sub-par match performances because that would feel like unrealistic playground behaviour.

 

Even if that won't be the case, there may be players perceiving it that ways. E.g. "Team talk has caused a 2-0 lead to collapse". Nothing ever at all to do with an AI manager foolishly assuming he could rest a few key attacking players, to only bring them on in the 2nd half when being a few goals down. With the first two goals being damned lucky, despite the hugely misleading possession and shot advantage. Or the player not spotting that the AI manager switched to three central forwards, whilst he insisted on pushing 3/4 of his team onwards. Or any of the other thousand things that could happen during a football match, including a few bad luck -- simulated or otherwise. Whilst ambiguity is key, if SI don't make this some clear -- well, every layer is a possible source of bad FM myth, of which there are this many you could turn them into a killer script for a Conspiracy Thriller at the movies.  :brock:

Edited by Svenc

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9 hours ago, Barside said:

Cole & Sheringham is the well known example in the premier league era of strike partners who were barely on speaking terms but who were professional enough to get the job done on the pitch & I imagine they are not a rarity in professional football, fingers crossed that the feature is not over-egged & does not create conflict for conflict's sake or that it more often than not results in excessively sub-par match performances because that would feel like unrealistic playground behaviour.

I hope this is related to the players personality. If a player don't get along with his team mates, but have a high level of professionalism then they will (should) function good regardless. If they are lacking professionalism however, then it could impact their play due to the fact that they are struggling off the pitch.

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Yep, logically it should be a bigger problem as you drop down the pyramid but at the higher levels the professionalism that saw players get to that level should see them being more capable of setting aside any personal issues when it comes to matchday.

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Didn't FIFA's first foray into team chemistry about 10 years ago mean that Accrington could outplay Real Madrid based on the fact they the Accrington team had good chemistry? I seem to remember it did but may be wrong.

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21 minutes ago, HemHat said:

Didn't FIFA's first foray into team chemistry about 10 years ago mean that Accrington could outplay Real Madrid based on the fact they the Accrington team had good chemistry? I seem to remember it did but may be wrong.

Yep :))))

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Didn't one of the last FIFA Managers ever produced contain Team Dynamics as a new feature? The same year or the year after FIFA Manager was no more ;)

I for one is looking forward to this, it does feel relevant for a manager to know about social groups and hierarchs to some extent. I don't think it's as gimmicky as social media but rather quite interesting!

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i think though they did say something about a new match engine and new tactical choices. as i said before i would love the game to finally develope young kids properly and for there to be far more tactical options than there currently are. also for the ai to be a lot smarter and use different tactics against you depending obv on who the manager is and their stats. ai teams to be better in the transfer market as well 

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1 hour ago, jamessmith010101 said:

ai teams to be better in the transfer market

This is (after player and media interactions) is the most important thing for me. Some of the AI transfers are just stupid, along with not being able to negotiate % of wages when taking someone on loan, which happens all the time IRL.

As well as being able to achieve club icon/legend more realistically.

 

Edited by Jamesbfc1887

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1) option when you can shortly comment on another people (like it was before) . comment over sacking of fellow manager, hiring fellow manager, etc. etc.. limitless options for FM creators here !

2) option when you can firstly negotiate contract with player AND THEN negotiate transfer price

3) club is who hires sporting director, not manager.. so u want dynamics ? dynamics is when your team is playing badly, they hire sporting director . your newcoming players playing bad ? sporting director (AI)will asses possible reinforcements and club agree or disagree

4) complete revamp and imrpovement social life - players react via twitter on recent games.. (like batshuaiy always comments chelsea game and many more players)

5) more logical trasnsfers of players who dont have starting XI status for so long, so their demands for contract with new club shouldnt be ridiciously bigger than actual contract

6) more dynamics inside dressing room like players dispute over penalty taking (yea neymar vs cavani isnt the only case)

7) trainig is good but id like to see some more breakdown of the actual regimes for example attacking training breakdown for another actions like ball controll at the final third of the pitch, shooting outside of the area, etc etc (i know its complicated)

8) cancel those not important stats like arrows about passing and shooting. i know its real but honestly who check that ? 10% of players ?

9) different stats which are more important like - number of wins and loses with particular player in starting XI. and more those kind of stats ! its pretty obvious that i wanna know for example if i am succesful with 433 or 4231 when i am using two or one defensive midfielder , etc etc etc.. limitless options for creators here as well !

10) i wanna see what team instructions i used in previous matches (tempo, passing, defenive line etc etc) - i must use notebook and archive this manualy..

11) decrease amount of stupidly unhappy players like hazard when suitor like bayern munchen comes..when hazard is playing , when chelsea is on top and fighting for CL, why leaving in january !! STUPID ! make it right !

12) better and deeper analysis of training. who trained how good how bad (attitude wise)

13) generaly more interaction options all over the game.. give us mouths... give us speech...

 

THANK YOU

Edited by HockeyFanSenator

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4 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

And this my friend is probably why FM18 will be the first ever CM/FM I don't own.

...

We get new half arsed features.

...

I'm hugely sceptical of the partnership bonds as well... if two average players have a good bond are they going to perform like worldys? Does it then become more about just keeping an average squad for long period of time and managing the dynamic screen? Or will it have very little effect in the ME, rendering it fairly pointless? Will it make two world class players look like Titus Bramble until they form the bond?

Why not try the demo when it comes out, rather than throwing your toys out of the pram. You've simply seen 2 videos, and now decided it's crap.

 

Team bonding does help - look at Leicester, when they won the league. Team spirit was pretty much 100% - Ranieiri rarely changed his starting XI and was rewarded with the league title. Partnerships in that team were the key - Vardy and Okizaki, Drinkwater and Kante, Morgan and Huth. They then added some more players that summer, and didn't play as well - costing Ranieri his job.

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On 10/6/2017 at 15:29, HUNT3R said:

Just a few posts up, I posted a tweet from Miles saying there will be a video on Sunday. Miles never said when there was going to be more news, but now we know.

It was stated that there would be more videos with details of the features mentioned in the first video.

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6 minutes ago, Scotty Walds said:

Team bonding does help - look at Leicester, when they won the league. Team spirit was pretty much 100% - Ranieiri rarely changed his starting XI and was rewarded with the league title. Partnerships in that team were the key - Vardy and Okizaki, Drinkwater and Kante, Morgan and Huth. They then added some more players that summer, and didn't play as well - costing Ranieri his job.

2

team bonding does help. However, after watching these videos, i can't help but think it is a bit one dimensional. I mean, team bonding can be devastating for some players. i.e. ronaldinho,deco situation in barcelona. They were bonding perfectly and got young messi under their wing. it got to a point where deco and ronaldinho got sold because they were ruining messi. is this negative bonding represented in the dynamics? or is it only bonding = good?

another thing i am not sure about is the influence on attributes. players bonded well and now they have better ability to find each other on the field. really? does it work that way in real and FIFA FUT or only in FIFA FUT? I agree that players who know each other, respect each other and feel comfortable with each other should get a bonus of some kind.

However, that bonus should be visible in more efficient training and quicker acquiring of team cohesion and tactical demands from the coach (and only if these players have the similar respect for coach, thus willingness to follow coach's demands). if they are just bonded between themselves, it means they might pass the ball more between themselves but it doesn't mean they will automatically be able to know where his team mate is on the pitch (they might know in which bar they will find him, that kind of bonding i do understand). in essence, i don't know how bonding between two butchers in the back who have no positional awareness might suddenly make them work better on the pitch. if anything, they might perform worst if they are unprofessional and like to drink in the bar together :D

 

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Just now, serif said:

It was stated that there would be more videos with details of the features mentioned in the first video.

And there will be. The first was about Dynamics. There will be more.

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17 minutes ago, Scotty Walds said:

Why not try the demo when it comes out, rather than throwing your toys out of the pram. You've simply seen 2 videos, and now decided it's crap.

I said 'probably' ... I will try the demo, and i'll review the feedback here. But I was really disappointed with FM16, was on the edge over 17... bought it and have never gotten into it to the same extent as the older FMs.

The trouble with the demo is ... if I was a noob to FM no demo would ever have gotten me to buy it. The ME is always buggy till first release, and quite often not till a further patch or two after that.

When you've played 25 years you know what you want to see and what you don't want to see in the new versions.

2 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

another thing i am not sure about is the influence on attributes. players bonded well and now they have better ability to find each other on the field.

Ozil and Sanchez good example here... respect each other above the rest of the team and that plays out on the pitch ... overplaying to each other to the detriment of the side.

Neymar and Cavani apparently don't get on ... but no effect on the pitch, still both scoring goals and PSG playing well.

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5 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

Instead of fixing the myriad annoyances such as player ratings, AI squad building, stagnant tactical choices, lack of player individuality etc


Some of my primary concerns too, but I think this is looking at it from the wrong angles. There is and has always been mass evidence of people struggling here exactly as is -- they're actually struggling with that in basic terms in football. What do you think why half the fansites are dominated with "push continue to win" downloads with any sup bar team despite assistant managers being decent enough to carry the show? Sure, sure, instant gratification will never go out of style, and it may become even more of a thing with coming generations due to various reasons (it's a social thing in general). But that's not it.

It's not that SI couldn't at all do. It's that you'd have these threads filled with "impossible to score" posts quickly again, same as the reviews, even when a simple entry level guide / better assistant may be enough to fix it even for those who don't get football on a conceptual / tactical / theoretical level in the slightest, and that's already happened in the past. E.g. mass rage quits when everybody's favorite trick to game the engine was that unrealistic ploy of keeping 8 men behind the ball (laughably easy to defend in school kids football all over the world), plus hoofing through balls to isolated attacking players, which only worked because of a few bugs. Which also exposed that even for the majority of the providers, they don't even know why their stuff works or how the goals are created, which is alarming.

So there's players struggling with basic concepts such as guys getting at the end of things, guys supplying those, guys covering it all, which is basically the core stuff that's rewarded. What do you think would happen if SI would add pressing patterns that allowed them to open gaps all over the pitch -- as if you don't understand any this, you sure don't understand why dropping deep plus pressing all over the place may be of no much benefit either? What do you think if  simply superior player quality won't fill the black holes sucking opposition players into all over the pitch anymore -- in particular if AI became much better at squad building. It's all a bit unfair, but that is where the conflict is. They are and have always been targeting "generally football fans". Well, you don't need an interest in any of those areas, however basic, to "get football".  Any emotional involvement will do. It does for thousands, and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that. Nobody is a superior species of football fan just because of the way they enjoy it! Same as nobody is a superior species of FM player just because of the way they're playing it. That'd be ridiculous.

However, if you don't define your target audience, you have guys such as you getting frustrated, same as guys on the other end of the spectrum. SI adding new layers/feature on top has always been a thing. This is nothing new. You can look forward to it, you can be suspicious, all up to you. What's constant is them being cautious as to how in-depth they really go with this from the get-go. However, as it's generally working -- who can blame them?

Edited by Svenc

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14 minutes ago, Svenc said:

They are and have always been targeting "generally football fans".

I agree with the thrust of your comments ... that they can't make the game too hard for the mass audience or casual football fan. However, you will have read all the same "442 doesn't work" threads I have this year. I don't think the current solution works for 'general' football fans.

The ME has become such now that just clogging the midfield with odd strikerless systems is the best way to win, making it very difficult for your casual player to start up a game 442 and have any reasonable success.

I started up a Notts Forest save last week just wanting one final save before FM18, with the intention of playing a season of 442 direct football ... feeding the big men Bendtner and Vellios. Very hard to get the team to play crossing football, let alone to win games in that fashion. 10 games in I'd reverted to 41212 short passing, slow tempo and was winning easily ... until I realised that's not why I created the save and so quit...

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6 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

It's endemic of the process in recent years. Instead of fixing the myriad annoyances such as player ratings, AI squad building, stagnant tactical choices, lack of player individuality etc

 

Yes I hope those have improvement otherwise might as well just stick to FM17.

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2 hours ago, Svenc said:


Some of my primary concerns too, but I think this is looking at it from the wrong angles. There is and has always been mass evidence of people struggling here exactly as is -- they're actually struggling with that in basic terms in football. What do you think why half the fansites are dominated with "push continue to win" downloads with any sup bar team despite assistant managers being decent enough to carry the show? Sure, sure, instant gratification will never go out of style, and it may become even more of a thing with coming generations due to various reasons (it's a social thing in general). But that's not it.

Wait wait wait, when you are saying people downloading tactic, did you ever asked them what is the reason they downloaded the tactic?

does they download the tactic because of the lack of understanding of the in game feature? which might be a valid reason.

everyone in the forums including you and the experienced players and the mods agree that the description in any feature is either misleading or just badly described or whatever it called in English.

And a Huge question from my side, what you expect from a casual gamer that just preordered the game and downloading a tactic which promoted by the FM Official facebook page ? what does they promote in this downloading tactic?

A way to approach the game? or more like a way to get frustrated in the future?

After the tactics fails, in the next day, when the casual gamer will decide to implement his own style of way (tactic) due to his failure he will create something on his own, but it will remain the same amount of TI's, PI;s etc... He will think that using multiple TI's, PI's like the downloaded tactic he used before is an OK/fine way to approach the game, but, this time he will use his own way... and evantually he will fail on his own way.

what happens when the casual gamer starts to lose, how he is going to identify what's the problem with the downloading tactic? (the official FM facebook fan page promoting the opposite of what the game really needs, or maybe it';s good for sales, i'm not in this position to know, and i'm not assuming i know what's good for sales, i'm looking at it as a user experience).

the downloading tactics included mostly 100 TI's, Pi's etc...  (is BASICALLY THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT RASHIDI, HERNE, CLEON and THOG etc... tried to deliver for the casual gamer in this forums).

@Svenc why you blame the casul gamer only, when the FM official site promoting those tactics? yes, it might be a failure for a casual gamer to understand football, because not all of us have pro licence or not all of us have the same understanding, vision etc... when it become to football. 

MOST IMPORTANTLY, THERE IS A LACK OF TUTORIAL/EXPLANATIONS WHICH HELPS THE CASUAL GAMER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT EACH FEATURE DOES, IN THIS CASE IT'S NOT THE USER FAULT.

And i didn't mentiond the lack of misinformation there is in the net which will make the game even harder to understand, just imagine someone reading alot about the game from http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/ which contain some information that was clarified here in the forums that are false in some extent and now the user need a different trusted place to read from, IT BECOMES EXHAUSTING, me personally finding myself reading about the and searching what each feature does more than playing and enjoying the game (myself is just as example from dozens that from some reason afraid or feels ashamed of their failure to agree with me here).

You might have a valid reason why the casual gamer might struggle in understanding FM, and also real life football in general. But it's not fair to put memes here :D and blame it on the user only even if they decided to download tactic (it's not like the ME is perfect and it's only the users fault).

Edited by MHovel

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4 hours ago, MHovel said:

@Svenc

You might have a valid reason why the casual gamer might struggle in understanding FM, and also real life football in general. But it's not fair to put memes here :D and blame it on the user only even if they decided to download tactic (it's not like the ME is perfect and it's only the users fault).

 

Michel, I don't blame anybody, if anything it is SI. :D To clarify, those memes are for humorous reasons and to comically highlight some missing feedback to SI -- the graphics were taken from players who even after they were told step by step what their issue was, they'd still rant the game were out to rig them.  They're still out there. They're there in numbers. They would only believe it if the game would tell them.

What you say is also true, re: feedback. However, I have yet to meet anybody who generally struggles for results on this who does so purely because of the UI (which despite its many issues is still much more straight forward than it was ten years ago and does half the stuff for you compared to back then). Actually, I know few people who generally struggle for results, most just expect to do better than they do, oft with mediocre sides, but that's another topic (in football, there is a limit as what tactics alone do). Just seen it in the other thread already, the game would punish you harshly for not picking the "right" role and would be very fiddly in what you pick (just not true). That there are so many different guides and advice is because every player behind such guides has developed his/her own playing methology. And there are multiple ones that can be successful. However, that is impossible if you don't have at least a generally understanding of football first (not merely tactically, mind,but also stats, analysis, results etc.). General rule of the thumb, as long as you are under such impressions that there would be a "right" role to pick for a player, same as the game harshly punishing you for picking a "wrong" one. Or that you'd need to watch hundreds of matches, you're already doing it wrong. At least, you're in for a very frustrating ride.

I would class myself as fairly "casual" fan too, FM back then made me to start reading a few books, as well as following a few blogs and sites. Not arguing that's how this should be. What the game rewards still is fairly team sports basics, that hasn't much changed in the last ten years. However the game itself has always struggled to keep up with what it is doing. If you aim for "generally football fan", you have to provide players with a few info. UI isn't going to help if somebody struggles with basics. If this would go more in-depth, the more the game would struggle to provide that. Think about the analysis tools the game already has: there is no manual. How those are being used, you get that by frequenting the likes of Opta and several match analytics only. Not that you'd definitely need to use them, but yeah.


@westy8chimp Agree, had highlighted this fairly early on and hopefully will fixed. However, if you struggle for results generally with a 4-4-2 -- not seeing this. Even AI don't tank, and they aren't fueled any workarounds. It's a slightly different topic, but adding more depth to features that have always been there rather than adding new ones is a common complaint. In this case, as highlighted, and I'm sad to say this, they'd be damned if they did, and damned if they didn't.. If Hearts Of Iron announced to seriously upgrade the AI, added more units to manage, and generally bring this closer to what it's trying to simulate, the core audience of it would fully embrace all of it. FM's is fairly split to me due to various reasons.

Edited by Svenc

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5 minutes ago, Michael Zorc said:

Disappointed to be 30 days from release and still not have heard anything major on tactics. Really dislike the way SI is going about this. :(

You did hear about new tactical roles today.

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4 hours ago, KUBI said:

You did hear about new tactical roles today.

Whereabouts? Only saw scouting video and don't remember seeing this mentioned. Is there another source of info I've missed?

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13 minutes ago, Michael Zorc said:

Whereabouts? Only saw scouting video and don't remember seeing this mentioned. Is there another source of info I've missed?

you can see them in the scouting video in one of drop down menus that opens.

Segundo Volante, Mezzala and Carrilero and inverted winger.

 

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8 hours ago, KUBI said:

You did hear about new tactical roles today.

No he/we didn’t, there was a sneak peak at new role descriptions however I suspect the desire is to have more details than a single word tag.

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33 minutes ago, Barside said:

No he/we didn’t, there was a sneak peak at new role descriptions however I suspect the desire is to have more details than a single word tag.

I still hope the next video will be about AI/ tactics and new player roles.

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