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looping

The end is near: I've cracked the game

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12 minutes ago, looping said:

Close this please. My team collapsed again.

Wrong move mate, you must be close this time. I think you're standards are ridiculously high.. would still be interesting (if not to anyone but myself) to see what you did, reckon it could help.

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It is easier to find a cause to problems that appeared after a successful start, than those which plague a team from the outset. Looping might still be able to save himself.

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55 minutes ago, looping said:

Close this please. My team collapsed again.

 

so-you-want-to-see-a-meme-that-never-changes-their-text-124826.jpg

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Unlocked by request as the situation has apparently been rectified.

@looping - if you open this type of thread it might be an idea to play through 3 or 4 seasons first to make sure you have ironed out all the wrinkles instead of bouncing around between "oh great"; "oh damn close"; "oh fixed reopen".  It not only leaves you open to ridicule but you run the risk of the thread remaining closed - you know the score on that front.  So please, we'd all like to hear some good news from you, just make sure it is good news ok :thup:.

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Well you've won Serie A, so your reputation probably went up and teams tend to sit deeper against you the following season. Take that into account and with some minor adjustments to your tactics you should be back on track again mate :thup:.

PS.: really like your formation, simple but good. Keep it up.

Edited by BadanieLuck

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Adapting: most common tweaks 

What I did is follow two rules:

a) Forget how I want to play and play how the ME is forcing me to play (adapt)

b) The more attacking the opponent plays, the more attacking I play.

I'm not saying is the only way to play. Not even the best. It's just how it worked for me. Perhaps what I'm going to say is completely wrong, but is the way I can play the game. You don't even need to watch matches, just follow this rules. This is not intended for advanced players, just for the ones who are struggling.

This year, ME is specially biased favouring:

- Overload central areas

- Wide play focused on WB (exploit of half spaces), wingers are too high, fb too Deep.

So, my tactic overloads central áreas and uses WB.

When I see a team playing very defensive (look at the tactic widget "Defensive 4141" for instance, I immediately drop mentality to Defend and push my def line higher. If I'm still unable to dominate possession, I push my defense higher and higher, using offside trap if needed. Finally I'll dominate possession and don't allow them to get out of their own half. Sooner or later the goal comes.

When I see a team playing attacking, I immediately push my def line higher. If they are still creating chances, I push it even higher. I use the offside trap or even go to control/attacking mentality. With this movement, I disrupt their play in their own half so the ball doesn't get to their strikers.

If I see pressure down the flanks (AMR/AML on attack duty) I switch my WB to defend.

If you need to score and the opponent doesn't switch to a defensive formation, go attacking mentality and put 3 strikers upfront. For instance, you are facing a 442 counter/standard/control (tactical widget doesn't show defensive or attacking). Your players will send the ball quickly to you strikers. You will have a lot of space.

And nothing else. You don't need to watch matches, just the tactic widget and statistics. Go to extended highlights so you see a bit of action but don't get mad on what's going on. If they are creating chances follow the above rules. Do it step by step: don't push your mentality up until you've tried to push def line only.

 

How I did it: Why now and not before? 

As I said in the previous post, I forgot how I want to play and strictly followed my rules. Nothing else.

If you've read this thread, my team semi collapsed during the second season. My striker (Belotti) decided to miss any posible chance and my 3 cb scored and own goal/commited penalti 7 games in a row. I stopped following my rules, trying to innovate. I thought opponents playing more defensive was killing me and I needed to be more creative. Wrong. 

Just strictly follow the rules. Belotti not scoring was completely his fault because he was missing clamorous chances. He missed 3 penalties. I sold him. His replacement scored for fun. I'm talking about Kevin Lasagna, a much worse player who scored 15 goals in 17 matches. 

Fortunately , my cb stopped scoring own goals was also completely their fault. A finement and a couple of weeks playing with the reserve team it somewhat worked.

It's very important to strictly follow the rules. You are doing what the ME is demanding you to do. If it doesn't work it's your players fault.

I'm not saying I'm right, what I'm saying is doing this you have a methodical way to play the game and don't start chopping. Chopping is for sure worse tan using rules that previously worked.

 

Final chapter

In my second season I finally ended 2 in Serie A and won the CUP but I abandoned the sabe. I would have won Serie A if I had followed my rules from the first moment. My fault. Why I abandoned the sabe?

a) I don't like what I'm doing. I don't like my tactic, this is not how I want to play and I find no reward on playing this. I find my tactic unrealistic and my tweaks are against any logic (at least, mine).

b) I have an strange feeling I'm playing the ME. Sometimes I'm hesitant to use my rules because it feels almost like cheating. I'm doing something I would never do just because it Works against the ME. It seems too easy.

What I'm going to try now, until Fm18 comes, is go back to my 442ish formations and see if I can find  a methodical way to make them work. You can leave this open, so I can update it.

 

Edited by looping

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With all due respect, I hate people that play the game the way you do, with this and that rules (if x happens, then do y approach). To me, it speaks of a low level of intelligence. I hate your threads and most of your comments so far. Imo, this is the wrong way to play the beautiful game. Period. 

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It's a game. It's all 0's and 1's basically. How is learning how to play it and understanding how to react to certain patterns "low level of intelligence"? 

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1 hour ago, samuelawachie said:

With all due respect, I hate people that play the game the way you do, with this and that rules (if x happens, then do y approach). To me, it speaks of a low level of intelligence. I hate your threads and most of your comments so far. Imo, this is the wrong way to play the beautiful game. Period. 

 

Edited by looping

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6 minutes ago, Footix said:

It's a game. It's all 0's and 1's basically. How is learning how to play it and understanding how to react to certain patterns "low level of intelligence"? 

Exactly. I just offered a different approach... That worked for me. And everybody knows how much I've struggled.. Perhaps this can be an starting point to understand things better. For me or others.

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Chill out on the personal insults, I don't care if people dislike the approach Looping takes, but anymore nonsense like that, I will toss out warnings and shut down this thread.

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In depth: why?

I said I follow 2 rules:

a) Forget how I want to play and play how the ME is forcing me to play (adapt)

b) The more attacking the opponent plays, the more attacking I play.

I'd like to focus now on b). 

Why I go more defensive when the opponent plays defensive?

Well, this comes from @Dr. Hook but let's think why.

When attacking, defensive mentality means low risk,low tempo, narrow, Deep, short passing upfront, direct passing at back. What do real life teams when they face a defensive team? Well, there are different approaches but one that is commonly used is camp in their half and play high %passes, not allowing a relief and patiently moving the ball until the space appears/is created. Does this match with defensive mentality?

- Low risk. Perfect, have no urgency to send the ball forward, we want low risk passes.

- Low tempo. We don't want a rushed play, we want to be patient.

- Narrow. Mmm... No, we don't want to play narrow. To counteract this, we can use the TI play wider.

- Deep defending. No, we don't want to defend Deep, we want to camp on their half. To counteract this, we can push our defense higher.

- short passing upfront. Yes, we want to be patient and play high % passes.

- Direct passing at back. We don't want that. To counteract this, we can play out the defense.

 

In my experience, you don't need to use play out the defense because direct passing at back on defensive mentality only applies if your players are under pressure. As long as you are facing defensive teams, your defenders won't be under pressure, so no need to use it.

Play wider TI I can't give you an explanation. It doesn't produce good results for me and I can't read in the ME why so I leave it on default.

 

When defending, is useful to use defensive mentality against a defensive team? A defensive teams most likely will use fb on defensive duty and not very adventurous wingers (if they use them), so most of the play will be focused in the middle (thanks @Svenc). To properly defend central áreas we need:

- Overload the zone. We are already doing it due to the formation.

- Defend narrow. As long as we don't have defensive width, we must obey a rule: the deeper, the narrower. The higher, the wider. Defensive mentality is Deep defending, but we are pushing higher. We must find the balance between camping in their half and defending narrow. If you have low possession numbers you are too Deep. If the opponent creates chances through the middle (short passing in front of your defense, your players not tackling) then you are too high.

 

The whole idea behind going to defensive mentality is to attack patiently while you can camp in their half, without being too wide when defending.

 

 

 

 

Edited by looping

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2 hours ago, samuelawachie said:

With all due respect, I hate people that play the game the way you do, with this and that rules (if x happens, then do y approach).

It's certainly not required to play like that in any kind of way. It's also not to do with intelligence necessarily, but it's a mental cage of the most stubborn kind. The one sentence that was close to coming to the "issues" was jc577 when he dropped the term "expectations". Honestly, this is already a looping thread. I'm just saying this as maybe one day he will find the error in his ways. Announcements of -WHAZZAM- I've cracked it!  are followed by a dip in results, and a desire to quit. He's exposed for plain not understanding football even in simple terms (sending a forward off into the gulags for missing three penalties, when it is plain to see that in-game too the difference between forwards isn't that big; and swapping a forward certainly not a magic long-term solution for a few bad streaks, which can happen at any point at any time anyhow).

Connected to this, not understanding simple Maths and laws of Probability and thus any kind of in-game streaks. Not able to contextualize results  (is it not somewhat expected that results would turn worse in a following season, considering this miracle table seeing ****** Torino topping Serie A by 2018)? And, eventually, always, always, finding some reason to start over again, whichever that reason is. If he'd have sticked to one of his saves, he'd already cracked the Champions League despite all of that (which says more about the game than his). But the FM world will keep a-looping, by 2018, 2019 and 2010 too. The one thing I do like is that he doesn't seem to look at primarily tactics anymore for various reasons. Nonetheless nobody is forcing anybody to look into this. I just think this will be deja vu all over.

Edited by Svenc

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11 minutes ago, Svenc said:

sending a forward off into the gulags for missing three penalties

No, no and 1000 times no. I didn't say that. 

I said he missed 3 penalties but that wasn't the cause why I sold him. The cause why I sold him is because he was constantly missing chances,INCLUDING, 3 penalties, 0/3.

My dead ball specialist hasn't missed any penalty in 2 seasons. I just allowed Belotti to make him score a goal. But no.

When I used anyone (literally, I used in complete desperation De Silvestri, a paced fb) instead him, anyone scored.

In the previous season he scored 27. Next season 10. 0 goals in the last 13 matches he played. There was no way to make him score, his earnings were 5 milion € and I was constantly receiving 50 milion € offers. He is supposed to score goals, nothing else. I replaced him for Lasagna. Lasagna scored for fun, the same Belotti did in the first season.

Sure there are reasons why anyone scored but him but as long as I ignore them, good bye Belotti.

Edited by looping

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6 minutes ago, looping said:

In the previous season he scored 27. Next season 10. 0 goals in the last 13 matches he played. There was no way to make him score, his earnings were 5 milion € and I was constantly receiving 50 milion € offers. He is supposed to score goals, nothing else. I replaced him for Lasagna. Lasagna scored for fun, the same Belotti did in the first season.

Sure there are reasons why anyone scored but him but as long as I ignore them, good bye Belotti.

You should look at the records of football scorers, and how they can fluctuate in between seasons. You should also at least take into account the actual attempts he takes. You can only work out conversions by looking at the attempts and the goals. At the moment you are either way treading this as some magic solution when it isn't. You were lucky, that's it, in particular if that is worse a forward as you said. Same as your prior expectations of not conceding more than 1.x goals on average (oft with fairly average sides). Over x amount of matches, you were oft able to do so. That does not mean you would always be able to. You really don't understand the influence of chance in all of this, and never have. You also have never compared anything that happens to you in-game to football, which is a bit of a deal as this is a football game. In real football there is few sides able to do that, etc. etc. Nevertheless, nobody can help you unless you do all of that. It is you who is locked in that cage, good luck.

Edited by Svenc

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I mean, you have to recognise that Belotti is a better player than Lasagna. Not saying selling him was a bad idea for a good offer, but you must know the same thing that happened to him may happen to Lasagna. Are you going to sell him as well?

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3 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

I mean, you have to recognise that Belotti is a better player than Lasagna. Not saying selling him was a bad idea for a good offer, but you must know the same thing that happened to him may happen to Lasagna. Are you going to sell him as well?

Yes and no.

I expect Lasagna to struggle to score. He is just an average player. He is a replacement.

Belotti is the star of the team. One of the top strikers in the game. He was stressing my finances and not scoring.

The point is:

- Chances are effectively being created.

- Anyone playing the AF role but Belotti scores.

- Belotti even misses 3 penalties

-  You can have a bad run, but half of the season is too much. 

- Belotti is expensive.

Goodbye Belotti.

I would sign a new striker and keep Lasagna as a replacement.

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Suits yourself. I wouldn't be so quick to sell my star player and rather understand why a RB was scoring when he wasn't.

On a personal note I'm glad you didn't give up this time. I think that you need to be more relaxed when playing this game. Feel happy that your save haven't reached the point where it's to easy, and you still have stuff to learn and experience within it's world. Read and watch more RL football as well.

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