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ermant

180-182 cm Goalkeepers

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There are too many good regen goalkeepers in my save whose heights are mostly around 182 cm playing in top clubs. Sometimes even shorter than 180cm.

Are they really that many? I don't think so. Maybe in the old times but nowadays goalkeepers are much taller i think.

Yeah i know there are some examples but most of them are above 185cm.

Edited by ermant

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I can't even remember the last 1.80 GK i've seen in real life.

the "smallest" GK's i've seen are those around 183-185 like Casillias.

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I think the average EPL GK height is 6ft 3" /  191 cm. I played as a GK and am 6ft 1 but likely small by current standards

In FM do regens grow until reaching a specific age or are they generated at their final height? I would think that there are some parameters built in to the game. Perhaps these need to be updated. 

I think there have been a number, fairly successful GK at 5ft 10 inches but these days I think it unlikely for them to progress through to  professional football / top level football. Also remember that tall goal keepers are likely to suffer more from a bad back when picking the ball out of the net ;)

 

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36 minutes ago, MrPompey said:

In FM do regens grow until reaching a specific age or are they generated at their final height? I would think that there are some parameters built in to the game. Perhaps these need to be updated.

They can/might grow a couple centimetres but the height they have when they're generated is pretty final. Don't ever expect a small CB/GK to have a growth spurt.

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Thanks

@ermant  - i think you would need to provide evidence over a number of seasons to back up that view for SI to investigate. Though they could likely look at the parameters that regens are created / likely to grow to and see if that matches current expectations

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1 hour ago, MrPompey said:

Thanks

@ermant  - i think you would need to provide evidence over a number of seasons to back up that view for SI to investigate. Though they could likely look at the parameters that regens are created / likely to grow to and see if that matches current expectations

I just had a quick look at the goalkeepers in English Premier League in 2032. A more detailed analysis can be done but these are just the 20 first team goalkeepers of the EPL clubs. There are many more. I didn't know while saying 182 cm. It was just an observation but it seems i am right.

179 cm - 1

181 cm - 1

182 cm - 5

183 cm - 2

185 cm - 2

186 cm - 1

187 cm - 2

191 cm - 1

192 cm - 2

194 cm - 1

195 cm - 1

197 cm - 1 (My GK Donnarumma)

This is also the case for central defender regens but it is more specific for goalkeepers. Let's stay on goalkeepers issue for now.

Edited by ermant

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1 hour ago, MrPompey said:

Thanks

@ermant  - i think you would need to provide evidence over a number of seasons to back up that view for SI to investigate. Though they could likely look at the parameters that regens are created / likely to grow to and see if that matches current expectations

I recall (but don't quote me on that) that regens in FM follow a model that suggest most men have essentially finished their growth at around age 16, which is apparently a realistic figure. It also happens that 16 is in general (but not always) the age around which players are generated at in FM, more or less. What I've seen in FM does suggest that.

Edited by BMNJohn

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4 minutes ago, BMNJohn said:

I recall (but don't quote me on that) that regens in FM follow a model that suggest most men have essentially finished their growth at around age 16, which is apparently a realistic figure. It also happens that 16 is in general (but not always) the age around which players are generated at in FM, more or less. What I've seen in FM does suggest that.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/482730/discussions/0/1474221865196687000/

 

Check out Neil's answer there. Players can grow, but don't expect a lot of growth and not really after 20.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

http://steamcommunity.com/app/482730/discussions/0/1474221865196687000/

 

Check out Neil's answer there. Players can grow, but don't expect a lot of growth and not really after 20.

Basically what I've written so far in this thread, and confirms my experience: don't expect any growth spurt for any player. I'd be actually extremely surprised if someone could report about a player having a growth spurt at all!

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To be fair, of the 20,000 or so goalkeepers (out of 34,000, rounding down) in the 17.3 data with heights actually in the game, 6,000 of them have heights between 158 cm (height of the smallest goalies in the game) and 182 and that include some good goalkeepers, mainly planning in the Spanish or Portuguese leagues. so its not an impossibility for what you're seeing to happen, despite being statistically anomalous. What do other leagues look like in your save?

Spoiler

Just on a un-FM related note, in recent years both Barcelona and Real Madrid have had success with goalkeepers in that 180-182 range or very close to it. Iker Casillas is 181cm and Valdes I think is 182, or at the most 183. The record streak for minutes played before conceding at home in Ligue 1 is held by a keeper who is only 174 cm, in the mid 2000s Jeremie Janot of Saint Etienne and of the 275 goalkeepers called up in the last 12 months by the current top 50 ranked international sides, something like 6.9% of those have been 182cm or lower, minus three players I couldn't find good sources on height for.

 

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well the key element is that FM reflects current trends so Im sure more work is needed to crunch stats 

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Just to provide some numbers I've pulled some from my save in 2030.  It still has a mix of real players & newgens but the real players all seem to be 30yo+

Ok on my shortlist I have 1,786 players currently and 186 are GKs.

(I also work in feet so 6ft = 182.88cm).

Out of the 186 keepers only 17 are less than 6ft (9.1%)

If I cut it down to ages between say 21yo & 29yo it should be virtually all fully grown newgens.  In that case there are 98 players with 9 under 6ft (9.2%)

 

Actually noticed I can see height on all the "All known players tab" so there I have 3,756 GKs with 310 under 6ft (8.3%).

Cutting is down to players between 21yo & 29yos there are 1,944 GKs with 143 under 6ft (7.4%).

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2 hours ago, penza said:

does height of a goalkeeper make any difference?

A massive difference if you can use it. Catching crosses / corners, less chance of being lobbed / long shots so can move slightly further out in terms of narrowing angles, making diving saves you have extra reach. Watch the slow motion of goals and see how lose fingers are to the ball for shots that go in,  plus a bigger person is a bigger object the striker needs to shoot past.

 

Of course you are thinking FM but the same should apply

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2 hours ago, penza said:

does height of a goalkeeper make any difference?

The most important factor is that height heavily influences Jumping Reach/Aerial Reach.

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Players do grow, yes. When generating a Newgen we calculate their final height and then see if we should downscale this in order to give them room to grow into said height.

Don't expect to see any massive growth spurts, these often occur before the age of 16 at which point the vast majority of (male caucasian) players have reached their full and final height.

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22 hours ago, ermant said:

I just had a quick look at the goalkeepers in English Premier League in 2032. A more detailed analysis can be done but these are just the 20 first team goalkeepers of the EPL clubs. There are many more. I didn't know while saying 182 cm. It was just an observation but it seems i am right.

179 cm - 1

181 cm - 1

182 cm - 5

183 cm - 2

185 cm - 2

186 cm - 1

187 cm - 2

191 cm - 1

192 cm - 2

194 cm - 1

195 cm - 1

197 cm - 1 (My GK Donnarumma)

This is also the case for central defender regens but it is more specific for goalkeepers. Let's stay on goalkeepers issue for now.

Conversation went a little bit off topic. Yeah, players generally grow a few centimeters between ages 16-21 but this wasn't what i was talking about.

Do you think the table above is normal? Would teams prefer short goalkeepers this much for their attributes and completely ignore their heights? I don't think so.

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