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Really good post, is there a reason why you have offside trap enabled? Nice to see a Jose post rather than a pep/Bielsa one. 

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3 hours ago, bdixon said:

Stunning write up, bravo.

 

3 hours ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

This is some wonderful stuff.

Thanks. It's a lot less detail and analysis than I normally go into. It has been fun to create. And it's always nice playing structured with Barcelona. 

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Brilliant read :thup: Mourinho, in my opinion, has been unfairly labelled as a manager that plays boring defensive football. He shuts up shop when needed, but several of his sides (namely chelsea in both spells, madrid) played quality football so it's nice to see this replicated. Quick question: how comes you didn't opt for a 4-4-1-1 formation?

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I don't see any obvious role issues. The Pogba role in United today might be that of an advanced playmaker, but he has a lot of PPMs that might help him as a DLP here. Very difficult role to define into one specific.

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To be honest, I think the roles and duties are quite far from that of a Mourinho side. RMD and Treq don't do all that much defensively (Treq tracks back a bit more) but overall I don't think Mourinho will give that much freedom to his attackers. I think one of those probably has to change to a role/duty that offers a bit more defensively. Also, he usually allows one full back to be a bit more adventerous - WB(s) or even an attack duty. 

With the TI's, is it really necessary to have 'be more disciplined' when you already have a structured shape?

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4 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

To be honest, I think the roles and duties are quite far from that of a Mourinho side. RMD and Treq don't do all that much defensively (Treq tracks back a bit more) but overall I don't think Mourinho will give that much freedom to his attackers. I think one of those probably has to change to a role/duty that offers a bit more defensively. Also, he usually allows one full back to be a bit more adventerous - WB(s) or even an attack duty. 

With the TI's, is it really necessary to have 'be more disciplined' when you already have a structured shape?

Depends, the RMD + Treq. combo would probably be a good fit for his Real Madrid side's Ronaldo/Ozil combo.

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6 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

To be honest, I think the roles and duties are quite far from that of a Mourinho side. RMD and Treq don't do all that much defensively (Treq tracks back a bit more) but overall I don't think Mourinho will give that much freedom to his attackers. I think one of those probably has to change to a role/duty that offers a bit more defensively. Also, he usually allows one full back to be a bit more adventerous - WB(s) or even an attack duty. 

With the TI's, is it really necessary to have 'be more disciplined' when you already have a structured shape?

The OP did state that the tactic isn't a replication but more of a Mourinho inspired system.. that said I agree that one full-back should at least be on attack, having one full-back sitting back and the other bombing forward is a common feature of Mourinho sides. However, Mourinho does give his attackers positional freedom in the final third, at least he has done at United.

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7 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

To be honest, I think the roles and duties are quite far from that of a Mourinho side. RMD and Treq don't do all that much defensively (Treq tracks back a bit more) but overall I don't think Mourinho will give that much freedom to his attackers. I think one of those probably has to change to a role/duty that offers a bit more defensively. Also, he usually allows one full back to be a bit more adventerous - WB(s) or even an attack duty. 

With the TI's, is it really necessary to have 'be more disciplined' when you already have a structured shape?

Hey, thanks for the comments. First off, as said this is just a system inspired by some of the principals Mourinho adopts. Some of the roles and duties won't match 100% but they're close enough I think.

Out of interest, what role would you say Rashford had at United? If you look at any pass-map of United this season you'll see the AML is the most advanced player for touches. Moreover, you can manipulate the player to be more defensive using player instructions. What I've tried to do is make the wide left role the second striker, like they seem to be at the moment. But also make him track back my getting him to man mark the opposition winger.

I've attached a screenshot of the Raumdeuter defensively. You can see here that he has tracked back. He is picking up his man and is very good defensively. At United it is more then AMC who is the furthest forward who, when defending, stays more advanced with Lukaku for counter attacks. I think I've managed to replicate this quite well, considering the RMD is an attacking role. 

A structured shape still has some creative freedom. At the time of creating this I have tried to reduce that as much as possible. I may take this off during the game if required. I will also look at other TIs and adjust accordingly.

1 hour ago, jc577 said:

The OP did state that the tactic isn't a replication but more of a Mourinho inspired system.. that said I agree that one full-back should at least be on attack, having one full-back sitting back and the other bombing forward is a common feature of Mourinho sides. However, Mourinho does give his attackers positional freedom in the final third, at least he has done at United.

If there was a way to say 'one at a time lads, not together' then I would fully agree. However, unfortunately, in the game, you're unable to say to the players that only one of you go forward at any one time. Would be a nice feature though, right?

Screen Shot 2017-09-16 at 13.01.30.png

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I remembered I had an old Schalke save that I only played one season with, loaded it back up and plugged this in. That Schalke team was suitable for roles, but the overall quality of the squad is so-so, media prediction 5th and mostly the same players as they have today. I bought Lucas Vazquez as a RMD and loaned Boschilia as a AP out left.

I am loving how this plays to be honest. There are certain issues up front from time to time, I had three games in a row without scoring, but we still managed to get 2nd, a few points behind Bayern. We beat Bayern in both BL games, 3-0 in Munchen and 2-1 at home. What cost me the league was too many draws (8), not having good enough strikers (only one suited for CF role) and Bayern being in god mode.

59bd3b575b5ff_S04fixture.thumb.png.345d068c88e7a947dc15dc669d4ae341.png59bd3b63d22fc_S04draws.png.d91daa9115c77de046d83800e28f492a.png

All things considered, very impressed by this.

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Do you ever switch up the roles/duties during games?

Some really good results in there. Usually, when I see I'm about to draw or struggling to break teams down I'll use more of the pitch and bring a full-back forward, too. 

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6 minutes ago, Hauge said:

Very nice read! 

Do you use any opposition instructions? 

Yeah they're posted in the original thread above. 

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Have you considered putting the double-pivot in the DM-positions, and making your Ramd-A into a IF-S? The reason I am asking this is because watching the Everton game last night, I observed that the two holding midfielders are always sitting right in front of the defence without the ball. The knock-on effects is that the defence will sit slightly deeper, so no need for an offside-trap, and you can also afford to be more adventourus with your double-pivot, for example by giving Paul Pogba the RPM-S role.  Changing to a IF-S will make both your wide-players track back in a 4-4-1-1 defensive shape without having to use man-marking every game, which can drag players out of position. I know this is not a exact replica, just interested if that was something you had thought about, or tried out?

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21 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

Do you ever switch up the roles/duties during games?

Some really good results in there. Usually, when I see I'm about to draw or struggling to break teams down I'll use more of the pitch and bring a full-back forward, too. 

That season I left it as is, except for the striker role. Since only Embolo was capable of playing as a CF, I switched to DF(s) whenever I played Burgstaller there, which was rare.

The following season (just finished) I picked up Sané on loan from City and used him as a winger on attack, with roaming PI, in some matches. That worked wonders for creating chances against the more defensive teams, although creation was never an issue really. The structured shape seems to break down even the most defensive BL teams. I had one match against Köln away where they played 4-1-4-1 defensive and I was 3-0 after 20 minutes or so. Won the league, but it went down to the last round.

My theory is that a tactic like this will be absolutely superb if your team is A+. At Schalke that is not the case, so with Bayern for instance I would have cleaned house. I accepted the Real job now, so will try it there.

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I set the opposition instructions on the tactics page but before and during match they don't seem tonappearto appear any more, please I need help solving this problem as it causes me trouble.

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On 18/09/2017 at 07:42, Vizzini said:

Have you considered putting the double-pivot in the DM-positions, and making your Ramd-A into a IF-S? The reason I am asking this is because watching the Everton game last night, I observed that the two holding midfielders are always sitting right in front of the defence without the ball. The knock-on effects is that the defence will sit slightly deeper, so no need for an offside-trap, and you can also afford to be more adventourus with your double-pivot, for example by giving Paul Pogba the RPM-S role.  Changing to a IF-S will make both your wide-players track back in a 4-4-1-1 defensive shape without having to use man-marking every game, which can drag players out of position. I know this is not a exact replica, just interested if that was something you had thought about, or tried out?

I’ve not moved them to DM. Playing structured reduces their attacking intent somewhat anyway. It’s something to consider at least :)

On 18/09/2017 at 09:48, Ji-Sung Park said:

That season I left it as is, except for the striker role. Since only Embolo was capable of playing as a CF, I switched to DF(s) whenever I played Burgstaller there, which was rare.

The following season (just finished) I picked up Sané on loan from City and used him as a winger on attack, with roaming PI, in some matches. That worked wonders for creating chances against the more defensive teams, although creation was never an issue really. The structured shape seems to break down even the most defensive BL teams. I had one match against Köln away where they played 4-1-4-1 defensive and I was 3-0 after 20 minutes or so. Won the league, but it went down to the last round.

My theory is that a tactic like this will be absolutely superb if your team is A+. At Schalke that is not the case, so with Bayern for instance I would have cleaned house. I accepted the Real job now, so will try it there.

I guess the issue I have is I created this at Barca, so wouldn’t spot the limitations with smaller teams but what you’re saying makes sense. 

On 19/09/2017 at 00:58, sherifdinn_ said:

I set the opposition instructions on the tactics page but before and during match they don't seem tonappearto appear any more, please I need help solving this problem as it causes me trouble.

You have to select oppositions by position. There’s a toggle on that Pre-match opposition instructions page. 

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Interesting write up, I think I tend to play like this Mourinho style, defensively solid with a sprinkling of flair at the sharp end.  

I need to remember that man marking trick, i've used it before but totally forgot about it, I think it will really help my current tactic.

Minor change i'd do is add Dribble More to the RMD, they do tend to take on opponents rather than pass it.

 

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Great write up once again. :)

The OI's seem integral to how the system plays out and a lot of thought and time and effort has gone into setting them up. As someone who never bothers with them, please tell me there's a way to set them up so it doesn't have to be done each and every game? :D

Or would the system still be close to optimum without them?

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On 9/25/2017 at 21:34, fmFutbolManager said:

Hehy @davehibb

When you create the tactic you just select opposition instructions at the top and it is the same for all games, so you only have to set it up once :)

Ah, phew! :D

I'm thinking about trying this out before FM18 to see how the OIs influence the game in terms of turning over possession and counter attacking transitions. :thup:

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The pics are gone can u renew the links or share them again please ?

 

Edit: The pics are there but i just realised that i cannot see those because "imgur" is prohibited in my country so i used VPN and solved the problem, thx for the tactics by the way i will give it a try right now.

Edited by trgtoztrk

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i really want to say thank you very much for this, because i was searching on internet for a long time ( since his Porto job, ok i admit im old you dont have to tell me that :D ) if there is anything close to how Mourinho setup his game plan, that can be used in FM, but nothing was effective in game and nothing was so close like this, so as a big fan of this style of play (or system if you like), thank you again, and congrats on how good you read the game irl and replicate it to FM.

:applause: 

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I've given this a whirl in season 4, funnily enough, having just take over at Barca.

About 15 games in all comps so far and still unbeaten, drawing only two games, both when I instant resulted, hah.

Beat Real at home 7-1 and Steaua 10-0 and I think I went 6 or 7 games at one point without conceding too.

Top stuff! :applause:

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Thanks for the comments guys, and glad it is working out well for you. It really does need a good Raumdeuter and high familiarity with the system. Once this is in place it should be a winner. 

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Excelent post! Do you low the mentality when facing a better team or if you are playing a bad game? Maybe if you want to walk away with a draw?

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1 hour ago, bosque said:

Excelent post! Do you low the mentality when facing a better team or if you are playing a bad game? Maybe if you want to walk away with a draw?

Thank you.

I don't usually make too many changes to the mentality. I'll usually swap up some of the roles and duties if I'm holding onto the game. However, Barcelona are usually strong enough to deal with most teams. 

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This is an excellent tactic. 

I'm trying this with Athletic Bilbao, obviously not the same level of players as ManU or Barcelona. Sometimes it's a bit stale on the offensive side of the game, but it's so, so, so solid defensively. I'd gladly take a boring 0:0 at Bernabeu instead of going down 5 goals trying to play exciting football.

Also, although it feels a bit boring sometimes, i still scored the most after Barca and Real in the league after around 25 games - using Aduriz and Villalibre. It will only get better once great prospects come through.

Also, against lesser competition i think it's easy to drop "be more disciplined" for a bit more creativity to break things down.

 

Anyway, to make it short: Great effort, i love this setup.

Edited by Time_Consumer

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Thanks for the feedback @Time_Consumer

I will often make changes after the first 15-20 minutes or so if I spot that something it's quite working. There are no perfect tactics out there that will win every game, and there are certainly things you can do to improve against various opposition. As you say, things like removing 'be more disciplined', for one.

I'm glad this works for you.

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Would you consider trying replicating the man utd 3-5-2 Mourinho has been using this season?

Edited by goqs06

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I'm in my second season with Bilbao, additions to the squad being Merino (winter break 16/17), Monreal and Dani Garcia, plus some loanees that came back. Sold De Marcos for 30 millions, Lekue is more than capable to take over RB. My lineup:

Kepa/some youth prospect

Lekue/Boveda - San Jose/Yeray - Laporte/Bilbao - Monreal/Balenziaga

Benat/Merino - Iturrapse/Dani Garcia

Susaeta/Oteo - Muniain/Unai Lopez/Raul Garcia - Williams/Muniain

Villalibre/Raul Garcia

In second season, defensively the start was a bit more shaky than I expected and offensively not very good against lesser teams sometimes. On the other hand, some whopping 7:2 against Celta and a 3:3 away at Bernabeu - balls over the top from the AP(s) to Villalibre with PPM „Beats offside trap“ does wonders against higher lines. Beat Barca as well.

Will have to develop an alternative approach to the „pure“ Mounrinho tactic in the long run. Maybe drop be more disciplined and play through middle against lesser teams to give attacking play more variety and thus cracking defenses. Also, maybe switch from Raumdeuter to IF(a) sometimes for different movement and more dribbles. Williams is developing great into that role, mental stats are not _quite_ there yet albeit having developed massively, I think it could benefit to give him a simpler role sometimes. His goal tally could use some improvement.

Anyway, I’m still firmly in CL race mid-season and finished my CL group with 5-0-1, 1 being the last game where i was playing a B team, if not C.

So yeah, all in all, still solid and great fun for my very last FM17 save.

EDIT: Villalibre is exploding in season 2 with 18 goals in 17 league games - it's the other players who should score a bit more, especially Williams.

Edited by Time_Consumer

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On 9/18/2017 at 09:48, Ji-Sung Park said:

That season I left it as is, except for the striker role. Since only Embolo was capable of playing as a CF, I switched to DF(s) whenever I played Burgstaller there, which was rare.

The following season (just finished) I picked up Sané on loan from City and used him as a winger on attack, with roaming PI, in some matches. That worked wonders for creating chances against the more defensive teams, although creation was never an issue really. The structured shape seems to break down even the most defensive BL teams. I had one match against Köln away where they played 4-1-4-1 defensive and I was 3-0 after 20 minutes or so. Won the league, but it went down to the last round.

My theory is that a tactic like this will be absolutely superb if your team is A+. At Schalke that is not the case, so with Bayern for instance I would have cleaned house. I accepted the Real job now, so will try it there.

I guess you are right here, using the tactic with as Monaco nd I'm sweeping the league away, 12 straight home wins nd 11 points clear at the top of the table. Beat barca 3-2 in the principality but the real task lies in the nou camp. We go again.

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On 22/10/2017 at 15:48, goqs06 said:

Would you consider trying replicating the man utd 3-5-2 Mourinho has been using this season?

Possibly. I'll be looking to replicate a few systems in FM18 over the season.

 

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On 14.9.2017 at 23:26, fmFutbolManager said:

I decided to attempt to replicate Mourinho's successful 4-2-3-1

Fingers crossed you are hard at work making a FM18 version of this great tactic.

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18 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

It is done. Not too dissimilar, either. 

any idea when will you release that to us? :)

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Ha, thanks for the nudge @Ji-Sung Park

Unfortunately, work has been hammering me at the moment, from 5.30 when I wake, I don't close my laptop until 10.30pm. I don't even have my FM18 save started yet. I will do this at some point, but making no promises for when I can release something. 

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3 hours ago, fmFutbolManager said:

Unfortunately, work has been hammering me at the moment, from 5.30 when I wake, I don't close my laptop until 10.30pm. I don't even have my FM18 save started yet. I will do this at some point, but making no promises for when I can release something. 

:) Yeah, no need to rush.

Actually I am currently working on a Hasenhüttl thing with Leipzig and I've noticed some weird player behavior in the new ME. I was thinking that maybe you had noticed the same and put things on hold for the moment.

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