New team - low tier top half ... (very) basic ideas

[Pp6]

Hello. I started a new team again - third tier in Italia, the one that should fight for promotion if lucky. Not real players. And they play nothing in this moment and I'd be happy to know why.

This is what my thoughts were when looking at the team I inherited:

• strong striker with good jumping ability - obviously a target man
• not bad wide AMs, relatively fast, creative, I want to use them - ie. 4231wide or 4123DM tactics
• only 3 usable DM/MCs, one fast, one ugly (dirty) and one creative - ie. 4231wide is better, to have one DM/MC extra if one gets injured
• so I loan one technical, dribbling, passing, not stupid AMC
• my DCs are strong and tall and good jumpers, but not so fast - so I won't play too high defensive line, but set pieces should be useful
• my leftbacks have relatively good crossing and dribbling skills - so I let them run wide and cross often

What I get (or what I see I got):

• long balls to target man, who is quickly swarmed by opposition defenders and DMs and the ball is lost
• the midfielders coming very slow to support the attack
• the AMC passing askew even his skills are good and his teammates seem (to me) free to receive pass
• the wingers lost at the lines, running forward when there is opponent in front of them and waiting or passing when they have free space where to run
• absolutely awkwardly taken set pieces including throw-ins sent directly to the feet of opponents, no matter in what part of the pitch
• my players marked everywhere they (slowly) go, opponent's players running free and receiving clinically accurate passes to the free space or to their feet, no matter how long
• opponent's wide players doing whatever they like at the line

The list could be much longer. I do not go to the details of my tactics because I am not sure which of them are more important. Please tell me, show me, ask me ... help me:)

Concerning my background - I am no super football fan. I am no gamer. I am curious and I like to work out how things work. I tried and I am trying to read some tactical and other guides. But the advice in them is either over general (I have no idea how to apply it to my situation) or too specific (there is now way how to apply it to my situation).

Thanks for any assistance

[Atarin]

Playing a TM encourages you team to miss out midfield and go long to the TM. That is the TM role. He is a ball magnet like a playmaker.

Its difficult to comment on the rest without knowing what Mentality and Shape you were using.

I'm going to guess if your midfield delayed their supporting runs then you are probably playing on a lower Shape and Mentality. Lower Shapes, especially, have the effect of restraining your support players a little bit.

If your AM's passing didn't match his attributes then he was probably unsupported. Look and see who got up around him. Also check how much pressure he was under. Were his errors unforced? (if, so then he probably didn't have enough players finding space and giving him simple forward passes and so had to try something more risky) or was he forced into a mistake? (in which case he didn't have enough deep support so he could recycle possession when an attacking move petered out).

Do your wingers have intelligence? What are their decisions like? What about off the ball? What about flair? Do they have any PPMs? These can effect their choices.

In terms of set pieces, without knowing how you set them up its difficult to say. If they keep being intercepted close to the taker, then...stop taking them short?

What is the off the ball rating for your players? Are they good at finding space? What is your tempo? If its too low then your opponent may have plenty of time to block off passing lanes, isolate the player on the ball and close them down. You may need to up your tempo and get your players (particularly your midfield playermaker to roam - try RPM). It sounds like your players aren't moving enough off the ball and the ball isn't moving quickly enough.

In terms of the opponent's wingers having time and space on the wings...that's up to you. If you're happy to play a narrow defence then you have to expect the opposition to have time and space on the flanks. You have to give them somewhere because your defence can't be everywhere. If you don't want to let the opposition have time and space on the flanks then you need to sacrifice your solidity centrally or your numbers in attack. You are playing a narrow 4-1-3-2, yes? That will naturally give the opposition the flanks, its the price of playing with only 1 wide player. You should have a sizeable advantage in the middle though.

[Pp6]

1 hour ago, Atarin said:

Playing a TM encourages you team to miss out midfield and go long to the TM. That is the TM role. He is a ball magnet like a playmaker.

Its difficult to comment on the rest without knowing what Mentality and Shape you were using.

I'm going to guess if your midfield delayed their supporting runs then you are probably playing on a lower Shape and Mentality. Lower Shapes, especially, have the effect of restraining your support players a little bit.

If your AM's passing didn't match his attributes then he was probably unsupported. Look and see who got up around him. Also check how much pressure he was under. Were his errors unforced? (if, so then he probably didn't have enough players finding space and giving him simple forward passes and so had to try something more risky) or was he forced into a mistake? (in which case he didn't have enough deep support so he could recycle possession when an attacking move petered out).

Do your wingers have intelligence? What are their decisions like? What about off the ball? What about flair? Do they have any PPMs? These can effect their choices.

In terms of set pieces, without knowing how you set them up its difficult to say. If they keep being intercepted close to the taker, then...stop taking them short?

What is the off the ball rating for your players? Are they good at finding space? What is your tempo? If its too low then your opponent may have plenty of time to block off passing lanes, isolate the player on the ball and close them down. You may need to up your tempo and get your players (particularly your midfield playermaker to roam - try RPM). It sounds like your players aren't moving enough off the ball and the ball isn't moving quickly enough.

In terms of the opponent's wingers having time and space on the wings...that's up to you. If you're happy to play a narrow defence then you have to expect the opposition to have time and space on the flanks. You have to give them somewhere because your defence can't be everywhere. If you don't want to let the opposition have time and space on the flanks then you need to sacrifice your solidity centrally or your numbers in attack. You are playing a narrow 4-1-3-2, yes? That will naturally give the opposition the flanks, its the price of playing with only 1 wide player. You should have a sizeable advantage in the middle though.

Thanks, that is exactly (almost) the answer I looked for. Even if it leads to more questions, but it was the intention.

* TM: That may be at the root of my problems. Anyway - what role to give to the striker with good strength and jumping (and other characteristics approx. average) then?

Advanced forward make runs - that's not what I want, because of characteristics and him being too forward from the rest of team. The same is poacher (I think). He has not intelligence to be DLF (I think). Defensive forward? Even without marking and tackling? Or false nine? And should I instruct him to hold the ball, if possible at the role?

* Delayed midfield and shape is idea I had not tried. I will.

* AMC: I saw him sending unprecise passes even when not pressed and even when having other players around him (or I believe so). This might have a lot of to do with tactics unfamiliarity and unblended squad. Working on it. (Though I can't help - it seems to me the opponent's players in the same positions do better even with worse attributes and in worse situations.)

* Wingers: Left one has Flair 19, Vision 13 (and Runs with the ball left and Killer balls), the other one Flair 15, Vision 14, Teamwork 14, Decision 13 (Gets forward and Switch ball) (all above average for their league). That's what confused me: why they make very regularly the decisions that would go against my better judgment as right - running with no space in front of them, not running when they can go. It might have something to do with the delayed midfielders and not enough attacking role of my fullbacks.

* Set-pieces: I made no tweaks in throw-ins. Yet my players stay behind opponent's and do not react as I would expect with someone with their ranking. The throwers have about the same attributes as opponents' ones, but I see very seldom the opponent to lose the ball this way though the pattern of throw-in looks very similar.

And another problem - when opponent is taking throw-in, one of his players is often free, with my player only running from penalty area to mark him. It never happens the other way. Never found out how to instruct my players to avoid such situation.

* Off the ball rating of my appropriate players is about average for their league (+- 10, not more than 12, not less than 8). I am usually playing the normal tempo (affected by mentality). However - if the tempo gets higher (when attacking) there are so many unaccuracies and lost balls I often draw back again.

* Wide players - I play with wingers, so I would expect some support from them. If it comes, it is ineffective. If their support does not come and they wait for balls gained by defence (what is the basic idea), they either hesitantly wait until the opponent's defence is formed again or send the long ball to the forward player (not the target man) who is well marked or sends unaccurate pass or lose ball when dribbling against the defender. Edit: I played wide formation, or balanced, never narrow.

Well, let's stop complaining. From the other thread (Stupid questions) I got basic idea that some problems may derive from underestimated pre-season. I'll try to start again (with other players, of course) and to get my players more cohesive and familiar with tactics. And go on experimenting with the old team.

Anyway I'd be grateful for answers to the following questions:

1. What role and instructions to give to strong tall striker, if playing him as target man is ineffective? Or how to make playing him as TM effective in 4231 wide formation with above mentioned AMs?
2. How to make my players mark opponents's wide players all the time (as I see they mark my ones)? I told them to mark tight wide midfielder. I told my fullback to mark tight. I told him to mark specifically the wide midfielder. And yet, WM is always free to receive the pass and my FB is just running to him from distance leaving him enough space to cross, to pass, to run. I am not sure if it is the right thing to do, I just want my player to do it and see how it works, just as opponents players always mark my wingers.
3. ... well, I cannot think of another specific question in this moment. Wish me luck - not to win, but to puzzle out the conundrum why my players do not do what I think I am telling them. I'll get back when I try the ideas I got based on your response, thanks.

[Atarin]

1: DLF(s) is fine. A DLF doesn't have to be creative, they can just be a pivot for the attack, someone to get the ball to in a measured way, someone who can hold it up and then bring other forwards into play. DLF can play many different ways. If you have a natural TM but don't want your team to play direct passes to him then DLF is a great option. His Jumping and Heading will be underused in the build up phase because he'll probably be receiving passes but he can still go up for headers in the box when the ball is crossed in.

Other options for TMs are CF, F9 and DF. If your TM has a little bit of pace then go with CF, if your TM has higher aggression, bravery, determination and work rate then DF can work quite well, if your TM has off the ball, Passing and Vision then F9 can be an interesting combination. If your TM is just a regular TM then I'd suggest sticking with DLF.

2: There a few issues here. First of all if you give your wide players the instruction to Man Mark then you need to consider the following things. (i) Do they have Acceleration & Pace to keep up with a player running behind them? Do they have good Marking, Anticipation and Concentration to actually mentally to pay attention. (ii) Are they close enough to mark the opposition wingers? If your wingers are playing as AMR/AML then they are quite high up the pitch and might struggle to get back in time after attacking. Also if they are marking the winger near your goal then they have too far to run to get involved in your own attacks. One solution is drop them back the MR/ML, that way they are nearer to their own goal and can help out defensively while still being able to get forward. (iii) Wide players on Attack will get forward very early and that will always mean that they are further away from the man they are supposed to be marking. Support duty players try to stay in contact with the rest of midfield so that they can assist in the defensive phase. Players on Attack do that less. If you change your wingers to Support then you will definitely lose something in attack but you will gain something in defence. Its really up to you.

If you want to keep your wide players in Attack duty then I would suggest dropping them back to MR/ML. If you want to keep them at AMR/AML then I would suggest giving them a Support duty. Its never easy to make these compromises but sometimes you have to choose between attack and defence.

3: I do indeed wish you luck. If you want to cut out the wait of getting your tactic familiar you could always start a save on FM Touch. FMT is like FM but just much simpler. Your tactical familiarity will be 100% straight away and you can just concentrate on watching how it plays.

[Pp6]

Ad 2) My fault I shifted the topic a little bit without warning, but I asked about full backs, not wingers. I am aware all of this balance considerations should be taken into account, but I wanted my FB (with what I believe is above average marking for his league - 13, other attributes also not bad) to sit with the WM and pursue him anywhere he goes. I know there are drawbacks to this approach but I just want to see it in action and I did not manage to find the right instruction combination that would make him to do that. On the other hand, it seems to me opponents' fullbacks are usually no more than one step away from my wingers, and if not, they (or DMs) are between them and the ball, unlike my FB who stands aimlessly at the corner of the penalty area and my DM/MCs who sit in the middle where there is nobody threatening. (I could go on lamenting about how they handle Close down more instruction, but no, I won't:)

The idea with FMT is intriguing at least ...

[Atarin]

Your fullbacks will have a number of considerations to balance. If you are instructing your side to keep it tight (i.e - with a low Mentality and or Shape) then that will be telling them to do the opposite of their Man Marking assignment. What you could try is to use OIs (Opposition Instructions) and have your side Tight Mark and Close Down the opposition wingers. Your Fullbacks will mostly be best placed to do that and so they will mostly be the ones undertaking this instruction. It might be work better than telling each fullback to mark their winger opponent. I can't promise it will work perfectly but its worth a try. It might also be worth using the OI Show Onto Weaker Foot to both of the opposition wingers or if you already know that you want the wingers show outside then make sure the oppositions AMR/MR is being shown onto their right foot and their AML/ML is being shown onto their left foot. If you know you want them show inside, so as to limit their crossing oppertunities, then just show AML/ML to right foot and AMR/MR to left foot. If you want your FBs to deal with the wingers as soon as they encounter them then you could use the OI Tackle Harder but this is risky because if the tackle is lost then the winger can advance unopposed.

[Pp6]

Thanks for assistance, now it has to be put into practice and it won't be matter of hours ... I'll be here again and hopefully report some success in my endeavour

[Pp6]

Well, one of the specific questions concerning the above mentioned team, now with pictures.

I have that winger, one of the stars in my team. He does strange things and I'd like to stop him doing them.

My DM just won possesion at our corner. He sees the winger (10) and passes him the ball (fig. left). The winger receives the ball and has got miles of space around (fig. middle). My judgment would say - he should either run with the ball or hold it until the rest of the team moves forward. But what does he do? He passes it to the target man (11), who is not originally marked, but deftly goes to the space where there is a defender between him and the ball (fig. right). In other words - opportunity wasted.

And another situation. Won possession after opponent's set piece, the winger receives the ball again (fig. left). Now the counterattack may be started - number 8 is running to the free space on the right, it is enough to send the ball to that space (fig. middle). Anyway, the winger sends slow ball just to the feet of opponent's 5 (fig. right, though not very obvious).

What do I know about him? His attributes are on the very first picture. His PPMs are Runs with ball down left and Tries killer balls often. He plays attacking winger with Roam from position instruction. He does not blend seriously to the squad (beginning of the season). He does things like this more often than not. The opponents in the similar situation almost never do such things - either they run with the ball or they pass the ball precisely to the place where it is the most dangerous.

My questions: What should I do to make him decide right in situations like this? Or should I wait until he blends to the squad and not to play him till then? Or should I get rid of him and find someone else? Or have I missed some game interface with an instruction "Don't do the stupidest thing possible"?:)