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kelabb

Wide Forwards - Can it be achieved?

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Hi,

In previous itterations of FM (I play 16), there was an option to use wide forwards. Sadly, this isn't the case any longer, unless I'm missing something.

I have tried using AM/R and AM/L as either wingers or inside forwards, but I have always felt they operated more as a MR/L further up the field, than wider forwards.

I would be willing to hear (read!) if anyone else achieves any success using 3 forwards, without having 3 central strikers.

Thanks,

Kel

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I have had success with Inside Forwards and Raumdeuters from the AML/R positions.  Inside Forwards like to be the types that dribble into the fray while Raumdeuters seem to be more of a wide poacher that looks to attack open space with speed to get open when attacking the net.

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Wide forwards (was in Fm14 and maybe 15?) didn't "work". You had the illusion of them being there, but under the hood, they were no different to an AML/AMR. Based on that, I'd say you should still use AML/AMR positions, but maybe just learn to use them better. The AI has been improving every year, so they're getting more effective at setting up basic tactics and may now be good enough that whatever you used to do, isn't working anymore.

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On 9/11/2017 at 14:41, kelabb said:

Hi,

In previous itterations of FM (I play 16), there was an option to use wide forwards. Sadly, this isn't the case any longer, unless I'm missing something.

I have tried using AM/R and AM/L as either wingers or inside forwards, but I have always felt they operated more as a MR/L further up the field, than wider forwards.

I would be willing to hear (read!) if anyone else achieves any success using 3 forwards, without having 3 central strikers.

Thanks,

Kel

Inside forwards can work with the right instructions, but they often start wider and deeper and then move inside when they have the ball. Have you thought about raumdeuters?

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I've been using regular forwards with man-marking on left and right backs. I feel you get the best out of them that way in terms of defence, but also if/when you win the ball back, they will be in wide positions ready to move into channels. My 4-4-2 diamond is basicly a 4-1-2-3-0 in defence. Otherwise raumdeuters is probably your best option.

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I play a single wide forward in the AMR position as an IF.  Mane and Salah rotate for me and both do a good job.  But this wasn't always the case - when I played a 4-3-3 formation they seemed less effective but since switching to a wing-back system they have improved.  I'm thinking that with a WBR behind instead of a DR that perhaps it encourages them to push up a little more and hence more of an attacking threat? 

I don't know really, just speculating.

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Currently doing a Liverpool save... I play 4231 wide... I have Coutinho as AP (s) on the left wing and Mane Winger (a) on the right. These two are the attacking thrust of my team.. Mane certainly plays more as a forward than a winger (due to my combination of PI/TI)

I've found a lot more success and enjoyment from using an AP out wide rather than an IF. IFs tend to telegraph what they are going to do far more... an AP roams into better positions and has more variety to his game.

I think the wide playmaker [E: as in an AP in AML/R slot, not the wide playmaker role in the ML/MR position] acts more like a Trequarista should - Coutinho really is picking the ball up right across the 3/4 patch of the pitch ... even on the right hand side, despite being (tactically speaking) in the AML slot.

Edited by westy8chimp

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IF and Raumdeuters work as wide forwards, there are so many variations of the 433 atm that have 3 wide forwards, and it works. Tis how you want to score the goals and where you build up play thats more important

 

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This is my Raumdeuter. He has played as a striker in his youth but due to the abundance of strikers coming through La Masia I converted him to a Raumdeuter this season. I use a Mourinho inspired 4-2-3-1 system, with the AML being in the Rashford/Martial role as the secondary striker from wide who is usually the most advanced player. 

dKMrQKb.jpg

The best way to make use of his key attributes in my system is to take advantage of his acceleration, pace and dribbling. To do this I need to make sure he has plenty of space to operate in. If he doesn't have space he will be less effective.  The way we set-up is to have the defensive of the two central midfielders, the Matić role if you will, on the left side of midfield and the more supportive on the right, the Pogba role. The idea is to flood the right-hand side of the pitch with players to draw the opposition out of their shape, leaving the Raumdeuter in acres of space on the left, usually in 1v1 situations where he is at his most devastating. Moreover, my two central midfielders are instructed to switch the ball to the other flank via a preferred move, so they'll quite often quickly switch play to create these situations.

What I also do is play with supporting fullbacks. By design, this is to bring them just over the half way line, far enough to occupy any attacking wingers. This further allows the Raumdeuter to isolate his marker and if he's good enough he will often find the space for himself. In the example below, you can see the grey bars are where he will typically operate, my right fullback has occupied the attacking winger and my Raumdeuter has isolated their right back. My Advanced Playmaker comes in really narrow to support the Attacking Midfielder, who has a simple pass to play into space for the first of four goals for the player in this match.

IkQc7Cy.jpg

It's not always this simple, but I find that if you give him space, and let him get into situations where he's on the last shoulder he will get you goals. Instructionally, we play with mixed passes and pass into space during the build-up.

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1 hour ago, fmFutbolManager said:

as the secondary striker from wide who is usually the most advanced player. 

What role do you use for your Striker? DLF or DF?

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Just now, fmFutbolManager said:

Complete Forward with an attack duty.

Ah nice. I wasn't sure if that'd make him more advanced than the Raumdeuter or not!

I recently moved to a narrow formation but I still will bring my poacher out to AML (where he used to play a lot) if I'm finding that there's spacing issues in breaking down a stubborn side.

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If you looked at average positions and our pass map the Complete Forward will be the most advanced player, however, his movement when we win the ball back and transition from defence to attack is, well, complete. He will come deep, he will move into channels, he will also spearhead the attack if needed. More often he is dropping deep, collecting the ball and moving it forwards--usually out wide--before getting back into the box if needed.

If you expand the image below, Olcay is my Complete Forward, We have just won the ball back and he has come deep to get it and play it forwards before making his run to catch up with play and join in. My midfield three are the more advanced players here. However, it isn't always this dimension, sometimes it'll be the AMC dropping or the AP out wide. 

Screen Shot 2017-09-13 at 22.48.24.png

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3 minutes ago, fmFutbolManager said:

If you looked at average positions and our pass map the Complete Forward will be the most advanced player, however, his movement when we win the ball back and transition from defence to attack is, well, complete. He will come deep, he will move into channels, he will also spearhead the attack if needed. More often he is dropping deep, collecting the ball and moving it forwards--usually out wide--before getting back into the box if needed.

If you expand the images below, Olcay is my Complete Forward, we have just won the ball back and he has come deep to get it and play it forwards before making his run to catch up with play and join in. My midfield three are the more advanced players here. However, it isn't always this dimension, sometimes it'll be the AMC dropping or the AP out wide. 

Screen Shot 2017-09-13 at 22.48.24.png

 

Oops I was meant to edit the above to add this image below but seem to have quoted myself and created a new post. This is just another example of Olcay dropping and pinging balls into the RMD.

Screen Shot 2017-09-13 at 22.54.46.png

Edited by fmFutbolManager

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