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Neil Brock

Football Manager 2018 Announcement

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43 minutes ago, endtime said:

But that's already in, for better or worse, sometimes newgens they can even grow long hair and a handlebar moustache over the space of a day ;)

I've got a 15 year old newgen in my Reading youth team with a full beard and looks about 40!!

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^ A cookie to Miles if he's going to dress as Indy for his performance to announce he'd be selling these fine leather jackets. :-P

 

1 hour ago, El Payaso said:

Phew, was starting to panic a little bit as my FM playing career would surely have ended there. :) Or I would just be using the commentary. 


Every professional analysis tools is build around 2d dots, which makes a lot of sense as tactical analysis is primarily about patterns and movement, rather than spotting whether a forward picked his nose during a corner. :D I don't think they'll ever exclude this, ever. The initial 2D view was also clearly influenced by any such tool used by professionals in analysis, plus they actually have a deal with Prozone.

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Guest El Payaso

Let's add a little bit with examples what I was meaning in terms of the ME:

Playing with Chelsea. You have Fabregas in the midfield and Morata as a striker. What you should be able to expect: fair share of goals from long range through balls. Also with Morata you can expect more goals from crosses as Costa was awful in the air and on the other hand this is one of Morata's strong areas. While Costa was much less likely to be bullied away from the game than Morata (like Arsenal did to him just a while ago). 

Athletic Bilbao. You have Aduriz as a striker so you won't expect too many chances to score but what you can expect is that your striker will score many goals throughout the season from chances that are not that easy: half chances, powerful headers and even from outside the penalty area regularly.

Everton. You have Gylfi Sigurdson so if you can get the amount of direct free kick opportunities that you get for example on FM 2017 (exceeds the amounts of real life with ease) then you also should be able to expect that you exceed the amount of goals from direct free kicks compared to real life as you have an excellent free kick taker who is allowed lot of opportunities.

Nowadays it feels that the point of view from SI is that they are counting the average sources of goals in football in general and the view is that for example every team should score one third from crosses, one third from through balls and so on. While this should be more down to style of plays of the teams and the attributes of the players that you have in your disposal. 

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17 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

Nowadays it feels that the point of view from SI is that they are counting the average sources of goals in football in general and the view is that for example every team should score one third from crosses, one third from through balls and so on. While this should be more down to style of plays of the teams and the attributes of the players that you have in your disposal. 

Aye, at the same time, stereotypes. The truth is that in football characteristics between players isn't that hugely pronounced, plus things aren't as clear cut. Free kicks are perhaps the best example as even the best teams score perhaps 5 of them at best. This is going to fluctuate on a season by season basis simply by random chance. You have fairly average guys outscoring specialists as Ronaldo too can go almost a season without converting, as the chance of conversion is rather low -- and even for that specialist the likelyhood increases a few percent. Likely, whilst Messi et all may be more consistent at a) getting into position b) working out chances for themselves and c) putting a few additional "difficult" finishes away, they also score consistently because they take like 5 attempts per match, whereas the average forward only 2-3.

 

In real football, teams spend millions for a few extra percent. And oft fail. Generally agree though. I expand it further to team playing styles. Which is partly engine limitation, partly AI managers. I think fairly everybody is able to get possession numbers of 60% going, whilst Pep and Co. ingame never do (even if you consider that FM's possession stat works by chessclock methods rather than number of passes -- the number would often be lower actually if FM worked by passes). PES and Fifa are more "fun" in that sense, however they also exaggerate hugely. That you control players yourself adds to that naturally. If you control Luca Toni, he feels like one of those tanks in Armed Assault. If you control Aubameyang it's like switching from tank to jet fighter. There's a dichotomy at work. It goes like this:

simulation-----------game----------arcade

The closer you are to the left, the less immediately pronounced things may going to be. I agree though FM "generalizes" much. For instance, individual finishing techniques are rare and limited, and it's been made a bit "worse" ever since "tries tricks" PPMs etc. were taken out (which seemed slightly glitched though). :D
 

 

Edited by Svenc

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Guest El Payaso
10 hours ago, Svenc said:

Aye, at the same time, stereotypes. The truth is that in football characteristics between players isn't that hugely pronounced, plus things aren't as clear cut. Free kicks are perhaps the best example as even the best teams score perhaps 5 of them at best. This is going to fluctuate on a season by season basis simply by random chance. You have fairly average guys outscoring specialists as Ronaldo too can go almost a season without converting, as the chance of conversion is rather low -- and even for that specialist the likelyhood increases a few percent. Likely, whilst Messi et all may be more consistent at a) getting into position b) working out chances for themselves and c) putting a few additional "difficult" finishes away, they also score consistently because they take like 5 attempts per match, whereas the average forward only 2-3.

There are also those clearer differences, even though most of them may seem small differences. Like for example I would claim that Morata has already scored more headers than Costa did throughout his whole career in Chelsea and Chelsea are now far more threatening through crossed balls. And for example with Fabregas I'm not asking him getting 30+ assists through long through ball but in real life when you watch him play you can clearly see his exceptional vision and the long through ball is one his trademark things that he has been doing with both Costa and now Morata. And something like Azpiliqueta joining the attacks as a centre back... 

These are the small details that make big differences in the gaming experience instead of everything in the ME being a grey mass of something that every team execute and with every type of players you are able to execute. With Crystal Palace you should see completely different type of football in the ME compared to Barcelona and you shouldn't score same type of goals or pass the ball in the same way and also Barcelona are not able to do all the same things that CP can with their completely different kind of players.

For me the ME needs variation and currently it sadly is a pile of grey mass and on FM 2017 even with some quite large flaws.

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Neils post would suggest that 2D is here to stay, so if Miles believes that no one will want to play with 2D any more then surely that means that there will be a massive advance in the 3D match engine, however there will always be some people who prefer 2D, as Svenc says it is a perfect analyitical tool, I watch matches in 3D but use 2D for post match analysis.  As i said in my OP I am perfectly happy to carry on with my FM16 save until the point when in my opinion the game has advanced so much as to make playing FM16 obosolete

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Before the gnashing of teeth begin, people should remember that the 'feature reveals' very rarely concentrate on intricate changes in the match engine. Because that's not really a 'feature' per se. The ME is constantly evolving, and I'd only really expect a major announcement about it in the reveals if it's been revamped completely from the bottom up, which is fairly unlikely. There'll likely be a bit about how it's been improved and is more realistic, with some info about new animations. Those expecting any big reveals about improvements to defensive positioning, etc are going to be disappointed IMO. 

You're more likely to hear about actual new additions to the game, or 'fluff' as people sometimes to refer to them as. 

But then I could be wrong. It's happened before. 10th July 1983 being the last time...

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Guest El Payaso
15 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Before the gnashing of teeth begin, people should remember that the 'feature reveals' very rarely concentrate on intricate changes in the match engine.

I think that we're all aware of that and not expecting the announcement to include any info about this. But this thread has also molded into a 'wishlist' type of conversation and people talking about what they would like to see in the new release instead of talking about the announcement that hasn't been even released yet. I don't think that all this conversation is bad as it hasn't been transferred to some other thread and it's actually good to have it here as it is kinda related and this is an active thread. 

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18 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

The touch version can't be the same as the full version. The processing ability of a tablet isn't the same as a gaming PC. 

I know it cant be as the full version but I fail to accept that leaving out the possibility of talking privately to players cant be added without blowing up an iPad Pro tablet. Take thst away from the game and you got a poor game. 

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2 hours ago, El Payaso said:

I think that we're all aware of that 

Surely you've been around here long enough to know that's not the case. 

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6 hours ago, fridge73 said:

I know it cant be as the full version but I fail to accept that leaving out the possibility of talking privately to players cant be added without blowing up an iPad Pro tablet. Take thst away from the game and you got a poor game. 

It's not just that - there's also their vision of what FMT is and what separates it from FM. The game is meant to be streamlined, so they won't just add everything to it. That said, there's always the feature requests section to ask for a feature and it would go a long way if you motivate decent reasoning for it to be included.

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10 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Before the gnashing of teeth begin

*gnashes teeth*

10 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

people should remember that the 'feature reveals' very rarely concentrate on intricate changes in the match engine

*gnashing intensifies*

But you're right.  Despite Miles and mods on here saying not to expect too much, that's exactly what plenty of people will do.  Hell, we've got people demanding to know at exactly what time it'll drop, working themselves up into a frenzy over what will probably be an anti-climax for them.  Guarantee that in a few hours time, they'll be someone pissed off because it didn't meet their expectations.  Only question is how many there will be.

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Praying they don't do away with 2D! I watch the occasional match ion 3D like a big derby game or the game that might win promotion / cup final but by and large I watch in 2d.

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11 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

Praying they don't do away with 2D! I watch the occasional match ion 3D like a big derby game or the game that might win promotion / cup final but by and large I watch in 2d.

They won't. Neil said as much just higher up.

I'd love to see the tweet that sparked this. People often seem to misunderstand a post or tweet and that creates outrage over nothing.

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20 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

They won't. Neil said as much just higher up.

I'd love to see the tweet that sparked this. People often seem to misunderstand a post or tweet and that creates outrage over nothing.

It was a throwaway comment at talk at the national video game arcade in Nottingham at the launch of the fm exhibition 

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46 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

They won't. Neil said as much just higher up.

I'd love to see the tweet that sparked this. People often seem to misunderstand a post or tweet and that creates outrage over nothing.

I believe it was something Miles said to Loki Doki in Nottingham, Loki talks about it on his youtube channel.

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Didn't see the tweet, but from people talking about it, seemed obvious that he was saying along the lines of people wouldn't want to play in 2D, because the 3D was going to be so good.  Nothing more than that.

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9 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Didn't see the tweet, but from people talking about it, seemed obvious that he was saying along the lines of people wouldn't want to play in 2D, because the 3D was going to be so good.  Nothing more than that.

I believe that is exactly what he was saying, which suggests that there is going to be a significant improvement in the 3D match engine

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and after watching the video the stadium in the background looks amazing but when they show the match in the end it doesn't look that different compared to fm17. 

also, maybe mods should lock this thread temporarily as there is already one thread open for the video itself.

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it's fine, people can comment over both threads if they want. 

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Everyone literally knows the same amount as everyone else.  All they've released is the brief video, beyond that it's just wild conjecture until SI give more detail.

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I have already bought FM 2018 :D I want to know if when the beta game appears, I will receive mail with steam code??? I ask because so far I bought the game in the store..

Greeetings to all :)

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12 minutes ago, MarianAlex89 said:

I have already bought FM 2018 :D I want to know if when the beta game appears, I will receive mail with steam code??? I ask because so far I bought the game in the store..

Greeetings to all :)

If you bought it through Steam then when the beta is released and you're on Steam it will automatically download. If you've bought through somewhere else then you'll have to wait to receive the code.

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13 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

If you bought it through Steam then when the beta is released and you're on Steam it will automatically download. If you've bought through somewhere else then you'll have to wait to receive the code.

I bought it from this site :D

Thanks for your answer!

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Imagine that would be far too politically and socially toxic to even attempt, even if it wasn't far too late in the cycle.

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I doubt it, it's a recent event and things even in reality are complicated, if Catalonia declares independence. I mean like the faith of F.C. Barcelona - will they stay in Primera or get banned/move to Ligue 1? Premier League? Catalan league? 

As for the announcements I'm hoping mostly for stadium texture improvements. Basically burger stands are what ruin the experience for me. Could be replaced with a parking lot/grass/hill/trees dependent on population of the cities. What's the use of this stat (Population) in the editor anyway?

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I have FM 17 in my Steam library and am wanting to pre order FM 18 but it says I am not eligible for the 25% discount although I like I say I have FM 17 in my library. I bought it via FM Scout but used a Steam key to activate the game. Please help.

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On 9/29/2017 at 11:43, Tony Wright 747 said:

I believe it was something Miles said to Loki Doki in Nottingham, Loki talks about it on his youtube channel.

The problem is, Miles says something along the lines of, the 3d options/views/whatever will make you not want to use 2d anymore and people lose their minds saying 2d was scrapped. It's not true at all and people need to read/listen to what was actually said.

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The 3D representation looks the same though :/

I’m sure they’ve added more animations but if I was a 2D user I’m not seeing much here to make me want to switch. Guess we’ll know more when we see more of it but it’s not exactly looking very different at the moment. 

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On 10/3/2017 at 12:24, Isakooov said:

I doubt it, it's a recent event and things even in reality are complicated, if Catalonia declares independence. I mean like the faith of F.C. Barcelona - will they stay in Primera or get banned/move to Ligue 1? Premier League? Catalan league? 

As for the announcements I'm hoping mostly for stadium texture improvements. Basically burger stands are what ruin the experience for me. Could be replaced with a parking lot/grass/hill/trees dependent on population of the cities. What's the use of this stat (Population) in the editor anyway?

Sounds fun making that Catalan league via editor files. Imagine me playing as Espanyol trying to outmuscle Barca in the Catalan League :p

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15 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

The problem is, Miles says something along the lines of, the 3d options/views/whatever will make you not want to use 2d anymore and people lose their minds saying 2d was scrapped. It's not true at all and people need to read/listen to what was actually said.

People actually reading the content of a comment & not coming to incorrect conclusion, where is this idilic internet you speak of?

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1 hour ago, Barside said:

People actually reading the content of a comment & not coming to incorrect conclusion, where is this idilic internet you speak of?

One can only hope. :(

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On 29/09/2017 at 10:43, Tony Wright 747 said:

I believe it was something Miles said to Loki Doki in Nottingham, Loki talks about it on his youtube channel.

Actually, it was all started from a question I asked Miles and Ov Collyer at the opening night of the FM exhibition at the NVA. I asked basically, who made the decision to go 3D and it went on from there - Miles then said he's be surprised if many people didn't play it in 3D this year.

Lollujo was also there that night, so he mentioned it on his channel - and the week after, Loki Doki, Lollujo and I were all at the FM Creators event at the NVA, so it was discussed some more.

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Correct. I think everyone is longing for some real steps forward on the way the engine looks. Even being able to rotate the camera on the fly with the mouse would be a start. 

Animations aside, it’s starting to feel a bit stale. I was hoping this would be the year for ‘revolution’ but maybe it’s a little way off still. 

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5 minutes ago, DP said:

Animations aside, it’s starting to feel a bit stale. I was hoping this would be the year for ‘revolution’ but maybe it’s a little way off still.

Funny thing is it seems to regress every now and again. I'm sure in one of the earlier FMs - at the time inside forwards took over the world - there were some excellent animations with them cutting inside and curling shots to the far post.

Seems very little individuality in the players now. Style of shot i.e. curl vs place vs power ... dribbling ability ... passing technique.

I'd like to see some new animations and variations too.  

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4 hours ago, Scotty Walds said:

Actually, it was all started from a question I asked Miles and Ov Collyer at the opening night of the FM exhibition at the NVA. I asked basically, who made the decision to go 3D and it went on from there - Miles then said he's be surprised if many people didn't play it in 3D this year.

Lollujo was also there that night, so he mentioned it on his channel - and the week after, Loki Doki, Lollujo and I were all at the FM Creators event at the NVA, so it was discussed some more.

based on what they have shown in the video, I don't know why would Miles say something like that considering that new and improved 3d representation looks marginally better than what we already had.

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31 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

based on what they have shown in the video, I don't know why would Miles say something like that considering that new and improved 3d representation looks marginally better than what we already had.

You are absolutely right, whilst I won't make a judgement until I have seen the videos, from what we have seen so far it looks far from a major improvement.

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5 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

based on what they have shown in the video, I don't know why would Miles say something like that considering that new and improved 3d representation looks marginally better than what we already had.

I think it might be the stadiums that have massively improved.

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Guest El Payaso
On 29.9.2017 at 06:51, forameuss said:

Didn't see the tweet, but from people talking about it, seemed obvious that he was saying along the lines of people wouldn't want to play in 2D, because the 3D was going to be so good.  Nothing more than that.

Heh, for anyone who even on some level compares the 3D to real football, the 3D ME will never be looking good or even satisfying. And this doesn't have anything to do with graphics. 2D on the other hand is much easier to make look satisfying as you cannot really compare everything it shows to real football.

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7 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Heh, for anyone who even on some level compares the 3D to real football, the 3D ME will never be looking good or even satisfying. And this doesn't have anything to do with graphics. 2D on the other hand is much easier to make look satisfying as you cannot really compare everything it shows to real football.

That's why you don't compare it to real football.  Because it's a game. 

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Guest El Payaso
5 hours ago, forameuss said:

That's why you don't compare it to real football.  Because it's a game. 

Actually a simulation and in terms of the ME the aim at least was to make it look as much real football as possible and in terms of that the ME has always been quite poor, especially on 3D. 2D though has been really good in for example versions 2009 and 2013 where you really felt that there is not much space on the pitch during the games and that it's actually hard to create something. In terms of these FM 2017 for example was one of the worst as there are spaces everywhere and even small strikers are really bullying defenders.

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3 minutes ago, El Payaso said:

Actually a simulation and in terms of the ME the aim at least was to make it look as much real football as possible and in terms of that the ME has always been quite poor, especially on 3D. 2D though has been really good in for example versions 2009 and 2013 where you really felt that there is not much space on the pitch during the games and that it's actually hard to create something. In terms of these FM 2017 for example was one of the worst as there are spaces everywhere and even small strikers are really bullying defenders.

And at the same time, it's quite easy to say to yourself "this is a representation of football" and leave it at that.  The simulation aspect is fine for most aspects of the game, but why is there the necessity to hold that simulation aspect up for the ME (which will never be truly "realistic") at the expense of your own enjoyment?  Treat it for what it is, and if that's not good enough, fair enough.  Holding it up to unrealistic expectations and you know what you'll get.

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