How do you rate FM17?

[iMan]

YOU DECIDE

[krlenjushka]

IMO best in last 4 years

[Fortune66]

I give it a 4 out of 5. Better then most FM sequels.

Edit: Nice initiative Iman to post a poll like this. I think even SI can appreciate it and get a good overall look now on what we all think.

Cheers mate

[iMan]

I'd be pretty confident this Poll means more to SI than sales, professional reviews, amount of users playing and monetary  profit.

It all comes down to this. 

[Fortune66]

43 minutes ago, iMan said:

I'd be pretty confident this Poll means more to SI than sales, professional reviews, amount of users playing and monetary  profit.

It all comes down to this. 

Now you´re joking right  Well, i didnt mean it would have THAT great of an impact on them but it´s better then to wade through all the other postings and threads i think.

[suncrush]

It's ok. The shift to to "real terminology" tactics and away from sliders in FM14 still sucks, since the in-game descriptions of what different settings do are wildly inaccurate. 

[suncrush]

8 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

IMO best in last 4 years

This is true. But so would be "Third best in the last six years"

[fabioke]

FM17 is average for me, didn't get really into FM16 but @Dan BHTFC's 

 Is making this a glorious experience.

[Marathon Dress Week]

Average.

Simply not enough refinement or new useful features to really set it aside from any other installment of the past few years.

A series now seemingly happy to rest firmly on its laurels .

[upthetoon]

did not buy............. refuse to. 

[Neil Brock]

11 minutes ago, upthetoon said:

did not buy............. refuse to. 

Then why have you voted in the poll? 

[Smurf]

Maybe played the demo - as did I. Didn't enjoy the demo at all. Went back to FM12 after a few demo games of FM17.

 

*edit* as I did with Fm13 (had full game), FM14, FM15 (had full game and didn't enjoy it), and FM16, FM17.

 

[Neil Brock]

Just now, Smurf said:

Maybe played the demo - as did I. Didn't enjoy the demo at all. Went back to FM12 after a few demo games of FM17.

 

*edit* as I did with Fm13 (had full game), FM14, FM15 (had full game and didn't enjoy it), and FM16, FM17.

 

Why FM12?

[ilkork]

I won't rate FM17 based on the thinking "FM17 vs previous versions", but based on the "FM17 vs other football manager simulation games".
Now, I'm somewhere between "average-good", and since there are no other FM simulations out there and it's a monopoly, I voted "good".

If a new guy played FM17 for the first time, they would think "Very good, tons of features, very realistic".
But for guys who played previous versions, like me, the thought is "mostly the same sh, not that bad though"...

[Sheriff7]

Really better than last years versions but still needs many things to move in next level...

[Smurf]

48 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Why FM12?

It's down to a lot of factors. I just like the flow of it, the screens were better laid out. 

For example - this calendar screen - it's far too over the top in FM13 - This Week - Next Week - Third Week - it was a bit convoluted. As with a lot of other screens

 

 

To be honest - I'm finding each year the game is going backwards in terms of UI and UX. I'm finding the Media interaction isn't integrated well - and there's too much focus on it from year to year.  I don't like the Manager setup at the start - very convoluted, and designing your own manager is just awful and unappealing to me. 

I think after FM13 there were more game play options, with instant wins and other facets which just don't appeal to me - where FM12 you have just 1 game, and it's football manager. I think too much time was divulged to create spin-offs of the original, and then neither of the products gained any real improvements from then on in. 

I just prefer FM12.

 

I may give FM18 a go. But I don't think the game is going in a good direction at all in terms of being a Football Manager and I fell the UI and UX has steadily declined since FM12.

 

 

 

 

 

[krlenjushka]

12 hours ago, suncrush said:

This is true. But so would be "Third best in the last six years"

Yes because i played FM13 just couple times and i cannot be sure. Also im on linux for several years now so i can rate only FM in last 4 years.

[Smurf]

Not to mention to move of the the navigation from the top to the side - I found it impossible to find the areas I wanted to look at, whereas with FM12 I knew where they were all at. 

And I'd be seasoned enough, I've played since CM days, since I was about 14 (now 37) - and I enjoyed each and every edition of the game all the way up to FM12.

 

[krlenjushka]

4 minutes ago, Smurf said:

Not to mention to move of the the navigation from the top to the side - I found it impossible to find the areas I wanted to look at, whereas with FM12 I knew where they were all at.

I dont mind that but i dont like leagues list in drop menu. We used to have parent competitions in the list on fm14 - and under every parent competition we had drop list of child leagues. Much better option in my opinion.

 

And I'd be seasoned enough, I've played since CM days, since I was about 14 (now 37) - and I enjoyed each and every edition of the game all the way up to FM12.

3D changed everything - IMO 3D is not important in FM at all. Many stupid bugs are reported in bugs forum only because players can see everything now. ME became top priority but shouldnt be. Tactical and financial part is much more important to this game. Of course i understand - 3D is good for selling game but caused lot of issues so far.

When you play on 2D you dont care about player stupid movements or something like that.

Its simple - this is not FIFA - this is FM and should stay FM.

[Smurf]

3D matches are the best thing in my opinion. You are a football manager, and you should see a 3D match.

Dots were fine up to the point of 3D being introduced - it's really one of the things I'm happy to see improvements with. It will never be perfect, and that's fine for me. But I like seeing the goals in 3D.

[krlenjushka]

1 minute ago, Smurf said:

It will never be perfect, and that's fine for me. But I like seeing the goals in 3D.

And this is ok for me also but lot of people bothering SI about this  - "my goalkeeper jumped 35 centimetres to far" or similar. They spend time on this type of "bugs" - they should focus on other issues IMO.

[Smurf]

I think any piece of software, gaming or not , will always have bugs. 

I'm sure SI have a way of prioritising what to fix and what to fix later. 

[Wells]

I will give 3/5,

Mostly the problem I have with it is lack of proper in-game documentation.

[krlenjushka]

Just now, Wells said:

I will give 3/5,

Mostly the problem I have with it is lack of proper in-game documentation.

What do you mean by "in-game documentation" ?

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Why FM12?

I personally prefer FM16 but I would agree FM12 runs it a close second, it had an ME at it's peak before the tweak for FM13 but as I say overall I Think FM16 the best.

[suncrush]

5 hours ago, krlenjushka said:

What do you mean by "in-game documentation" ?

There are a TON of little things that are very poorly documented in game, outside of the tactics, where the in-game info is well known to be outright lies. 

 

Examples--there are active threads right now that ask for explanations of home grown rules because the in-game explanations suck. (And they're bugged anyway.)

 

U20 rules are poorly explained. Competition requirements for the Italian U20 say only one over-20 player can be played, but that's not true. It's really players born after some date 20 years ago that is either not in game or hard to find. Which of my 20-yo players meet the cutoff, and which don't? I don't know!

 

The foreign player rules in China  do not behave even vaguely like the in-game explanations.  I don't know whether the written description or the implementation is incorrect, but they are strikingly different. 

 

 If you have a rule, as you do in Italy,  where foreign players can be signed only if they have certain qualifying national team caps, why don't your scouts supply the information?  It takes a lot of research on several different screens to figure it out by yourself, and that makes it easy to make mistakes in the calculation 

[Guest]

I think it's good. It's my first try after FM2014.

 

Some things in the match engine really annoy the heck out of me. 1) Way too many players letting corner clearances run out for a throw-in, even if would be much more sensible to whip in a new cross and keep the situation going. 2) Goalkeepers just don't punch the ball. All goalies have the stat Tendency To Punch, but nobody ever does. I challenge anyone to show me a video where a goalkeeper actively punches a cross or a corner clear. (And will be happy to tell I'm wrong, if I see one!) 3) Long passes are always high balls, which is extremely annoying, particularly if the player receiving it is small. The Iniesta, Coutinho type of players will get rubbish ratings if they don't score or assist goals. Simply because they attempt a lot of headers and fail - but if the AI had more sense, players on the pitch would recognize that playing a high ball to Iniesta or Coutinho is madness. 4) Diagonal runs from midfield appear unstoppable. If a player goes on a diagonal run, nobody ever gets the ball from him. Nothing may come of it in the end, and often nothing really does, but nobody's going to get the ball from him before he tries something.

 

The press is still rubbish, as it gets repetitive very quickly, but I won't criticize SI for this, as I don't see how it could be that much better. Even if they wrote ten times the amount of material they now have, it would still get repetitive very quickly.

 

I've enjoyed the game but won't be coming back, at least for a while. Not enough new stuff since FM2014.

[dannyrefc]

So what was wrong with the game before the big change fm13 onwards if i was to look back (i like the new fms) then id say pre match engine change fms 07-12 specifically were the best ones, too much macro management for me now after all its a GAME, its always been about making a legacy with your supported or small club not ai adapts to every single thing and we want the realism of a small club taking 20 years to progress as this is how it is in real life , thats alls i see now in responses to things "but the percentage of this in real life" "this happens irl". Thats si's problem in a nutshell its  been going downhill since they stopped viewing it as a game 

[dannyrefc]

Btw the what was wrong with the math engine pre 13 wasnt rhetorical id like to know why they needed a drastic change 

[pukfm]

 

I will say it's average !

 

PROS

+ Regens (The best part of the game, it's what keeps me going - please SI don't change this part and screw up!)

+ Tactics (Could be lot better, but it's great)

 

CONS

- Traning (It's the worst part of the game - see my thread about training)

- Media/SocialMedia (miss a better overview - more hype and better headlines)

- Interviews (It's super boring - should be fewer but more interesting questions every time)

- Sound (Miss a better match/crowd sounds, it's the same since FM 2005 !! )

- Too few new features every year (Not enough new useful features compared to previous games)

 

It's interesting to see, that about 40% of the voters think it's average or bad 

 

[Tony Wright 747]

2 hours ago, dannyrefc said:

So what was wrong with the game before the big change fm13 onwards if i was to look back (i like the new fms) then id say pre match engine change fms 07-12 specifically were the best ones, too much macro management for me now after all its a GAME, its always been about making a legacy with your supported or small club not ai adapts to every single thing and we want the realism of a small club taking 20 years to progress as this is how it is in real life , thats alls i see now in responses to things "but the percentage of this in real life" "this happens irl". Thats si's problem in a nutshell its  been going downhill since they stopped viewing it as a game 

I still say that FM should be seen as a simulation more than a game very similar to Flight Simulator, which if you can master gives you a fair experience of flying a real aircraft.  Is that not what FM is trying to create, the feeling of being a real manager.  If it is just and hour or two of fun you are after, there are a lot of simpler football manager games out there that can give you that experience, but only FM can give you the former.

[Smurf]

1 hour ago, pukfm said:

 

It's interesting to see, that about 40% of the voters think it's average or bad 

 

It's not really - it's only a select few people who frequent the forums every day - there's 10000's of people who play the game that haven't voted.

In a sense it's a diluted vote. 

As most people come to a forum to either seek help, give advice, or to give out about something not working right. 

[andu1]

It's good, i hope FM 18 will improve the ME physics to better represent player collision.

[watai0102]

I think it is the best

[talhak]

I think obviously it is the best FM ever, SI is a big company with loads of talented & experienced staff who try to improve the game year by year. The match engine is now better, 3D match view as well. The options of transfer & contract are detailed. Of course, there are some areas which need to be improved. I do not want to name them here, most of them are already posted in "Feature Suggestion" forum. Things are going well from my side, it is the game which still excites us despite the years. 

[Cedrik]

I am very pleased with FM17 . I really feel that they pushed the game to a higher level, something that I definitely did not always had with previous versions of the game. I like the green skin, I love the improvements in 3D. I feel the transfer system have improved a bit, the sacking of managers was less than before and the ME has also significantly improved imo to name just a few things. 

Still there are many things to work on obviously. The big blocks on the tactic screen, just don't do it for me. I feel there are definitely better options possible in this area. And even though I mentioned the transfer system being improved, I often still have the feeling that compared to real life top teams go after players that aren't a major addition to their team. For example the top six in England goes after players that in real life would end up at West Ham or Stoke. This also makes it easier for the human manager to be successful. I really want to see the top teams go after big players, CA 155+. Currently I feel they still too often aim for players CA 135 - 145. 

Another issue for me is the player interaction, when does SI finally will stop with scripting these completely unrealistic interactions with players? Often players are with the slightest issue pissed off what affects the rest of the team. I have rarely seen any situations in real life where for example the blocking of a transfer unsettles a whole team. Take the current situation with Ousmane Dembélé at Dortmund, he clearly wants to leave the club, but this doesn't make a whole team pissed. Whilst in FM you would have to deal with at least 12 players being annoyed with you as a manager because you blocked a transfer. Like wtf?  I also highly doubt that at Southampton half of the team is currently mad at the club for not letting VVD go. These kinds of things really need to be fixed in FM. They are still occurring too frequently imo. 

Besides this there are here and there situations where players want to leave for a club that isn't any improvement on their current team. When managing Liverpool, Coutinho and Firmino wanting to leave for Tottenham and Dortmund, really? 

The manager appointments of AI teams have absolutely improved, but still I feel AI teams always tend to go for older managers, whereas I would like to see more teams go for younger managers like in real life. 

Last but not least I also think that there are still too many players with ratings that doesn't reflect their real life abilities. Players that constantly seem to get extremely overrated for no reason. If a player doesn't play much at his team irl, and when playing doesn't do well. I don't expect him to be in FM one of the key players of the team and netting 20 goals in 30 matches. That is just unrealistic imo. 

Anyway, definitely looking forward to FM18. Curious to see what SI has in store for us, I really hope they can continue the great work they have done with FM17 .

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, pukfm said:

CONS

- Interviews (It's super boring - should be fewer but more interesting questions every time)

 

 

Realistically, the interviews cannot become interesting. There is no way to keep the questions from becoming repetitive very quickly, because the AI isn't anywhere near smart enough to write its own questions. Everything has to be pre-written. It is super boring, but I don't see a way out of it, at least with this level AI.

[upthetoon]

5 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

 

Realistically, the interviews cannot become interesting. There is no way to keep the questions from becoming repetitive very quickly, because the AI isn't anywhere near smart enough to write its own questions. Everything has to be pre-written. It is super boring, but I don't see a way out of it, at least with this level AI.

completely agree with this. there's no way out unless SI can develop an AI that can produce it's own questions through logic checks or somethings.

But the most easiest way to improve the interviews is to find a way to integrate this element more into the game's context. maybe repeatedly giving the same response may generate some sort of feedback in the social media where fans turn against you or become more in your favour. etc etc.

it just needs to blend and integrate with the game more. right now, it's too isolated which is why it becomes boring and repetitive too quickly.

[Smurf]

On 8/10/2017 at 13:05, Neil Brock said:

Why FM12?

I remember now - FM13 had this "new feature" where in the tactics screen selecting a squad - the pull out menu for filters showing player positions automatically collapsed after you selected a position. Whereas in FM12 it stayed open until you selected your team.

I found it impossible to select my team.

When I submitted my feedback on this - the response was that that behaviour wasn't going to change. 

I could never fathom why this behaviour was introduced, but it was a major reason for me not moving to FM13 - along with other changes to the UI and UX.

 

[KingCanary]

Voted for good. FM16 was my least favourite FM I can remember and this has been much better. 90% of what drives this is the match engine and tactics which have improved dramatically from last year. 

There are still some big, frustrating flaws in the game (mainly in the way teams defend) and the media is just tiresome but I've enjoyed it much more this year. 

[GOODNAME]

Best FM since 2008 for me.

Hope to see in FM18 more players chimerstry things,and more options in training.

[Isura]

On 8/11/2017 at 02:55, xzar_monty said:

 

Realistically, the interviews cannot become interesting. There is no way to keep the questions from becoming repetitive very quickly, because the AI isn't anywhere near smart enough to write its own questions. Everything has to be pre-written. It is super boring, but I don't see a way out of it, at least with this level AI.

The real media are terrible at asking interesting questions so this part seems very realistic.

[Wisła]

I've only had the game for a few weeks, so still early to comment, but I can certainly offer some initial impressions.

FM17 is the first that I have purchased since FM14. Previous to that, I had bought every single FM ever made, right back to the first Championship Manager; but every so often, a certain saved-game comes along that captures my imagination, draws me right in, and makes me feel the way I used to, playing in the days of my youth. York City had the honour of being that Club, and that save for me in FM14. So engrossed was I in that epic York City save, that FM15 flashed by without even a thought. Nothing could drag me away from it. FM16 - I tried the demo - it simply wasn't enough of a drastic improvement to make me want to leave York.

Another year on -  and I still love that save, but my old FM14 database is feeling very tired and dated, so I had a look at FM17 - and playing the demo, was delighted to find that it had enough about it to draw me back in.

 

Baring in mind we're talking three years of development on from what I'm used to -- the Match Engine has come on leaps and bounds, and is a drastic improvement. Some real clinchers for me already, was during a match [I always play every game in Full Match mode] the massive improvement in responsiveness when I need to make changes. One of the most infurating things for me in FM14, was that I go to make important changes in the tactics screen -- and ten minutes later, the game still hasn't made them yet, even when the ball has gone out of play. I was so happy to see that horrible interminable waiting has gone for good. I make a change, it happens in game almost immediately, and that is awesome, and most welcome news.

 

Animations in general are far superior, but defensive animations in particular have massively improved, and virtually eliminated the frustrations I used to feel at how often my players just would not tackle, and let wingers saunter on by unchalleged [regardless of tactics]. Tackling is way way better, and defensive positioning and the AIs animations of it have also undergone a commendable overhaul in the Match Engine.

The infuriatingly ridiculous and all too frequent officiating errors in particular from the Linesmen [they'll always be linesmen to me!] in FM14 are a thing of the past, which is also a great relief to me. Sure you still get some, like in real football -- it's just nice that the AI has developed other ways to keep my scoring down to realistic levels, other than erroneously flagging about three or four perfectly legitimate goals out for "offside" every game, and allowing a couple for the opponent that were blatantly at least ten yards off.

In short -- the ME now plays and looks like a proper football match -- and that is obviously a very good thing.

I'll add some further thoughts on the game in general once I've got some proper game-time under my belt to offer a fair assessment.