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Krminho79

Please help with my 4-2-3-1 CAN'T EVEN GO EATING

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Hello guys,
I'm new so i'm glad to be welcomed here :)

My tactic and my results are here my strikers are Giroud Jovetic Lacazette and Guidetti... and they can't score, last year we finished 2nd actually we missed championship and this year we are 6th after 15 games. We hardly win games even we shoot 25+ and with %60 or %55 possession... i usally play narrow with this tactic don't mind it's wide on the ss if you want further information just ask me...

Thanks for helps :)


 

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If I remember correctly, the 2 CMs aren't the best tacklers or defensively good. They are suppose to be your defence shield especially if you are going to use 2 WBs.

Why use a BBM? He doesn't really sit back. He is suppose to be covering for your RWB when he bombs up. If you want to use BBM in a 4-2-3-1, I suggest using a LFB or a FB(D) so that you won't be overrun on counter attack.

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10 minutes ago, vasilli07 said:

If I remember correctly, the 2 CMs aren't the best tacklers or defensively good. They are suppose to be your defence shield especially if you are going to use 2 WBs.

Why use a BBM? He doesn't really sit back. He is suppose to be covering for your RWB when he bombs up. If you want to use BBM in a 4-2-3-1, I suggest using a LFB or a FB(D) so that you won't be overrun on counter attack.

Thanks... i love the bbm role so, i'm changing Tolisso's role to FB(D) what's more, i'm singing Kyle Walker on this January so i make Tolisso BBM -he is more deffensive than Ferri-  and Kyle Walker FB(D) 

Edited by Krminho79

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Another thing you should consider is your passing range. Retain possession, shorter passing and play out of defence makes your team play too cautiously. They will try to pass their way into the goal. Consider dropping retain possession so that your team can move the ball around faster to break organised teams down.

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45 minutes ago, vasilli07 said:

Another thing you should consider is your passing range. Retain possession, shorter passing and play out of defence makes your team play too cautiously. They will try to pass their way into the goal. Consider dropping retain possession so that your team can move the ball around faster to break organised teams down.

k i dropped play out defence

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results after your tips  we are at the 3rd position on the league now and 2nd elemination on EL still team is not like what i want thanks btw

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6 hours ago, vasilli07 said:

Another thing you should consider is your passing range. Retain possession, shorter passing and play out of defence makes your team play too cautiously. They will try to pass their way into the goal. Consider dropping retain possession so that your team can move the ball around faster to break organised teams down.

Adding to this, a very high tempo and short and retain possession doesn't really go, your players literally have to all have 18-20 pass, control, touch etc to play that, even the great barce team a few years playing a short passing game played a slower tempo, a higher tempo is usually for a more direct passing game, try that maybe

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3 hours ago, United_kaz said:

Adding to this, a very high tempo and short and retain possession doesn't really go, your players literally have to all have 18-20 pass, control, touch etc to play that, even the great barce team a few years playing a short passing game played a slower tempo, a higher tempo is usually for a more direct passing game, try that maybe

some said to another guy in this forum that your team is dominating game but cant scoring because you are using slower tempo. this is why i use normal tempo

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@Krminho79

You're using a top-heavy formation (lots of players in the AM and/or ST strata) so you need to be careful that you don't congest space too much. And that's exactly what you are doing right now. I'm guessing your IF's are running into the AP, you have another BBM joining as a late runner, and two WB's who will bomb forward whenever they can. There won't be enough space for your players to take advantage of and it will leave you vulnerable because you only have your DLP and CD's defending.

I would start with the striker position and the right IF. In a formation like this, you either want your AM to make runs set up by the striker or your striker to make runs set up by the AM. You chose a creator in the AM strata so you want a striker who pushes on a bit more than a DLF (A). Probably a Advanced forward or a poacher...

You may also try to use an attacking midfielder (Support) instead of an AP (S). Give him the same personal instructions as an AP, but without the hold position. This way he will still create chances like he did before, but also will make occasional runs into the box and be a presence there. 

To free up a bit more space I would change your IF on the right into a Winger (support). He will stay wide and create space for your BBM to make runs. As mentioned by others, I would change the WB on this side into a FB (S).  Next to the BBM, I would change the duty of the DLP to defend instead of support. With 4 players in front of him and the BBM making runs, you want him to create from a bit deeper.  

Playing with both retain possession, shorter passing, and work ball into box is probably overkill. I see you also reduced width, coming back to reducing space, i don't think this is a good idea as your players are already close together. I would probably use retain possession, add lower tempo (depending on how much possession-minded you are), but lose shorter passing and work ball into box. I would also try to play without the TI ''stay on feet'' as you want your players to be a bit more aggressive and not wait until the last minute. --> play from defense, retain possession, lower tempo is what i would start with. 

Good luck :) 

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You're using a top-heavy formation (lots of players in the AM and/or ST strata) so you need to be careful that you don't congest space too much. And that's exactly what you are doing right now. I'm guessing your IF's are running into the AP, you have another BBM joining as a late runner, and two WB's who will bomb forward whenever they can. There won't be enough space for your players to take advantage of and it will leave you vulnerable because you only have your DLP and CD's defending.

I would start with the striker position and the right IF. In a formation like this, you either want your AM to make runs set up by the striker or your striker to make runs set up by the AM. You chose a creator in the AM strata so you want a striker who pushes on a bit more than a DLF (A). Probably a Advanced forward or a poacher...

You may also try to use an attacking midfielder (Support) instead of an AP (S). Give him the same personal instructions as an AP, but without the hold position. This way he will still create chances like he did before, but also will make occasional runs into the box and be a presence there. 

To free up a bit more space I would change your IF on the right into a Winger (support). He will stay wide and create space for your BBM to make runs. As mentioned by others, I would change the WB on this side into a FB (S).  Next to the BBM, I would change the duty of the DLP to defend instead of support. With 4 players in front of him and the BBM making runs, you want him to create from a bit deeper and it will add extra defensive stability 

Playing with both retain possession, shorter passing, and work ball into box is probably overkill. I see you also reduced width, coming back to reducing space, i don't think this is a good idea as your players are already close together. I would probably use retain possession, add lower tempo (depending on how much possession-minded you are), but lose shorter passing and work ball into box. I would also try to play without the TI ''stay on feet'' as you want your players to be a bit more aggressive and not wait until the last minute. --> play from defense, retain possession, lower tempo is what i would start with. 

Good luck :) 

Edited by jorgvandervloed

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I'm not sure what your vision for this tactic is.

You have 3 of your 4 most advanced players focusing on getting behind the opposition (DLF-A + 2x IF-A) yet your team instuctions are pushing your team to defend high (Control + Close Down More) and then play patiently (Retain, Shorter, Play Out of Defence, Work Ball Into Box) but doing so at speed (Higher Tempo).

Your roles + duties are the major factor that create your style of play with TIs and PIs used to refine it, but for me they are completely mismatched in your tactic.  Your roles + duties suggest a fast vertical game but your doing everything you can to not play that style.

I see you've made some changes but rather than randomly changing settings I think you need to define how you want to play?  Your defensive plan and offensive plan (roles, duties and TIs) need to fit together and not be thought about in isolation.

p.s. @jorgvandervloed I think you quoted instead of edited.

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@jorgvandervloed   i liked your suggestions, really.. team is playing good there is some bad losts -like against Nice- but generally its OK  thank you (besides i know it's not my tactic but i'll try to build my tactic maybe in a different save)

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7 hours ago, Krminho79 said:

@jorgvandervloed   i liked your suggestions, really.. team is playing good there is some bad losts -like against Nice- but generally its OK  thank you (besides i know it's not my tactic but i'll try to build my tactic maybe in a different save)

Why are you playing narrower and using stick to positions? You could change the support duty of the DLP to defend to add a bit more defensive stability. 

Glad you're getting better results now though!

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On 7/24/2017 at 02:11, jorgvandervloed said:

@Krminho79

You're using a top-heavy formation (lots of players in the AM and/or ST strata) so you need to be careful that you don't congest space too much. And that's exactly what you are doing right now. I'm guessing your IF's are running into the AP, you have another BBM joining as a late runner, and two WB's who will bomb forward whenever they can. There won't be enough space for your players to take advantage of and it will leave you vulnerable because you only have your DLP and CD's defending.

I would start with the striker position and the right IF. In a formation like this, you either want your AM to make runs set up by the striker or your striker to make runs set up by the AM. You chose a creator in the AM strata so you want a striker who pushes on a bit more than a DLF (A). Probably a Advanced forward or a poacher...

You may also try to use an attacking midfielder (Support) instead of an AP (S). Give him the same personal instructions as an AP, but without the hold position. This way he will still create chances like he did before, but also will make occasional runs into the box and be a presence there. 

To free up a bit more space I would change your IF on the right into a Winger (support). He will stay wide and create space for your BBM to make runs. As mentioned by others, I would change the WB on this side into a FB (S).  Next to the BBM, I would change the duty of the DLP to defend instead of support. With 4 players in front of him and the BBM making runs, you want him to create from a bit deeper.  

Playing with both retain possession, shorter passing, and work ball into box is probably overkill. I see you also reduced width, coming back to reducing space, i don't think this is a good idea as your players are already close together. I would probably use retain possession, add lower tempo (depending on how much possession-minded you are), but lose shorter passing and work ball into box. I would also try to play without the TI ''stay on feet'' as you want your players to be a bit more aggressive and not wait until the last minute. --> play from defense, retain possession, lower tempo is what i would start with. 

Good luck :) 

Excellent post. Now you're describing very close to the 4-2-3-1 that I'm running in English lower leagues. :)

Another idea is use advanced forward with advanced playmaker (support or attack). That will really push the defensive line back. I found that in the 4-2-3-1 wide formation I needed my striker to push forward. Playing a poacher or supporting target man didn't create as many chances. It's again down to using space to stretch the field vertically.

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@Isura @jorgvandervloed Hi again mates, i'm about to start 7th season of my career with OL and i became champion last 2 seasons with my own tactic of course i remembered your advice too... I thought about this post and i realized that i want to put this at a end. I'm very happy that i finally found a tactic that really works for my team. and i wanted to share it with you, and others who read this post.

ps: i have still some problems with CL football

 

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Some Results... and stats..

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The team stats of the league1  conceded and scored goals are important and shoot accuracy too... 29 games without losing...

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Edited by Krminho79
ps added.

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@Krminho79

Good for you man! Glad you found a tactic that works for you after all.

Problems in the Champions league? I'm assuming this is a scoring problem? Are you having problems against the likes of PSG in the Ligue 1? 

When you look at the first image, your striker has scored 28 out of 63 goals (roughly 44%). So he contributes hugely to your success at the moment. In fact, there is only one other player that got to the double digits.  In the Champions League, you're playing against the best sides in the world who can probably mark your striker out of the game. Who else is going to score for you? 

The wingers will stay wide (hard-coded), Advanced playmaker will hold position (hard-coded), Deep-lying playmaker will hold position (hard-coded), and Ball-winning midfielder will hold position (hard-coded). So of your five midfielders, no one will make runs into the box. 

You need one or two more players to make runs into the box.  For example, change your left winger to an Inside forward. Or change the Advanced Playmaker to an ordinary Attacking Midfielder. You could try a Box-to-Box midfielder instead of the Deep-lying midfielder. Just some things to test...

You're almost there already, but this could finish things up

 

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