qDizzy Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 first time player here... getting the hang of it... quick question... i have my team playing with: lowest pace possible + shortest passing possible + retain position + more disciplined + play from the back + work the ball into the box + all my mids and defndrs with few risky passing... yet my CB launches the ball all the way up to my stiker when there is a CDM right next to him pretty open.... the oppostion does pretty well passing the ball around from the back and throughout the middle... im wondering could this be happening bcuz my team has very little tactical familarity with formation and tactics and all... and can i expect them to be able to pass the ball around more and retain position the more they gain familrity with the formation and tactics or is there something im missing... thanks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 Tactical familiarity doesn't have a huge impact, especially if your core tactic is sound. It can have an effect sure, but it's not massive. There could be any number of reasons, but without knowing your system we'd just be guessing. btw, that when you say things like "lowest pace possible" that would mean you are using the Contain mentality, along with reducing to a minimum the Tempo setting in the Team Instructions and making sure the shortest passing possible are all selected. Are you really doing all of that? In the mean time, and if you like reading, there is a thread pinned in the Guides sticky at the top of this forum called "The Art of Possession" which you may also find useful. Possession isn't necessarily about low tempo - winning the ball back quickly from the opposition can also help, as can freedom of movement from your players in order to be available to receive a pass. And don't forget that the flip side to low tempo is that it may give the opposition more time to get back into a nice tight defensive shape. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brigzi Posted July 20, 2017 Share Posted July 20, 2017 well Close Down Much More, Play out of Defence, Retain Possession, Roam from Position helped herne 'lead the La Liga possession table (just a smidge below 60%) ' few years ago. (not that ive read every thing youve posted to try and get better *cough*) Cleons art of possession thread could help, it helped herne afterall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qDizzy Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 thanks guys for the posts... thanks herne for responding to one my questions once again dude... big help man... and really aprrciated... some clarification: i honestly dont intend to play that way as i mentioned above... i just tried it out to see if my CBs or FBs would like not launch the ball all the way up to my strikers... but seriously... i mean common... i litterally hightligted all that i can to pass it short and retain position... and i meant lowest tempo (i said pace but really meant tempo)... and it is i believe control not conatin i selected... and to be clear my not intrested in the defensive phase yet as far as trying to win back possesion.... i really just would like to keep the ball and play patient from the back... it would be actually nice to see in this game my players working the ball from side to side... i mean the ball could maybe get to a striker, go back to a mid and then to a full back and perhaps even go all the way back to a CB in a build up play... not trying to force anything... i honestly feel like i dont wanna read cleons art of possesion... its like its a game.... it shoulnt take me having to read someones specific style of play... dude i set everything to pass it short... its aston villa players, cmon it shouldnt be THAT difficult to try to pass it around.. i would prefer these guys pass it around and lose the ball trying to pass it around than kicking it way up... man at least they are trying to follow instrutions.... a full back is wide open but nope... he lauches it 50 yards to ST... a mid field is open.. same thing... seriously... i might read cleons art of possesion but i at least want to varify that its not just me but the CPU or AI or watever that it just isnt up to par or what whatever... im literally playing the demo... judging by what im seeing im not to sure if i want to go ahead and purchase the game... and that i think is a huge concern for FM if it cant attract new players and are just depending on a very dedicated fan base... i mean i really like the concept of the game and im trying very hard to get the hang of it but man... im sure 70 80 or even 90% of gamers i think wouldnt even bother to research as much as i have to learn how to play... and thats FM's loss... i really think they should at least have a video turtorial how to play the game... seriously no1 reads manuals every1 goes to youtube to figure stuff out nowdays (mot to disregard a manual as it is always helpful and a good refrence point... but man like make a really good turtorial and post it on youtube or someting to at least help new gamers like me understand the concepts of the game.... seriously what fun is it if i gave to play a game and try a strategy and get it wrong millions of times ... join a forum... and read some1's stragtegy and stuff to finally get it right??? very discouraging.... this is what i wil do... ima set my tactics to 5 in the back and 2 CM and 2 wide maybe even with a false 9 or DLF.... and try and set it up with my own ideas of the best possible way to keep possesion... what i would like to see at the very least is my team dominate possesion at least in my own half... (and i will look to see if im being pressed or not... nevertheless even if im being pressed its sure hard to press a team with a 541 forcing them to launch it up because they are trapped... i would think the ball should at least more than half the times get to my CF before i run out of options... ) i might also try a 451... well thanks anyways for your guys posts... ima give what i said a try and man ima see whats up... really hope to get somewhere with this game but... starting to feel it takes major tweaking way more above and beyond than the obvious... in which case long time players that have been playing the game are familar with and new players are just like... or or or or ...... and then just stop playing... PS honestly though think its pretty cool you guys here all share info trying to help each other... probably the only reason y im still giving the game a try... if it wasnt for this forum and guys like henre didicating his time trying to help out fellow gamers... i wouldve stopped playing this game a while ago... once again thanks henre for once again answering one of my quesitions... cheers to you mate and every1 else trying to help other gamers out... greatly aprciated... pardon the spelling amd grammer best of luck gamig to you all.. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemeuresnew Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, qDizzy said: and i meant lowest tempo (i said pace but really meant tempo)... and it is i believe control not conatin i selected... the problem you may find with this, is that control is an attacking mentality still. there are 7 all together, and despite the name being misleading you are playing on the 5th out of 7. so that will encourage a more attacking style, and passing around deep in your own area is not attacking. it is a style i use quite often like you are and many others. but the passing is still forward a lot in an attacking way hope that helps explain why you wont get what you are expecting very much, if at all at the moment, just cant keep the ball back like that on a attacking mentality, it contradicts itself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qDizzy Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 well there u have it.... LOL.... i'll check it out... repost with my findings... smh.... thanks lemeuresnew... who knows how many would have saved themselves loads of frustraion with this bit of knowldge.... and like... this goes back my other point... FM should do a better job explaining these things to players new to the game... but man... sure am thankful i read your post before giving another crack at it... thanks man... cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 On the topic of Cb/s Fb/s launching it to the forwards and bypassing everybody, that sounds like a Target Man up-front. This needs a visual cue as fielding a TM will encourage players to play the ball to his back to front. You wouldn't need to go to such extremes with the Team Instructions to avoid such balls (I sometimes do/did when simply choking a game, works like a charme though). In my opinion it's become rather easy to play short pass short pass short pass, oft with comparably limited risk right from the back, in parts related to defending/pressing and AI weakness. Players still won't follow instructions all the time. Stuff that may influence: - Whether there is a pass available and whether they see it - Whether they are getting pushed to clear (in particular when paired with lower mental traits, can happen on all levels of course) - personal player traits displayed in the profile, preferences, PPMs (plays long balls, etc.) - Tactical gelling / how much they respect you (at the start you can pick your manager reputation) - less of a thing at "be more disciplined TIs", the "creative freedom to self express" given to players - natural high flair players may also be more prone to do some of their own thang - imperfect / on occasion erroneous modelling of decision making, also bad decision making, leading to a few seemingly "dumb" choices - actually bugs (It'd be possible for instance that a particular player role were buggy) However cbs fbs constantly hoofing it to the forward from my experience is either a perception issue (how often this happens VS how often it is perceived to happen) or a target man. In particular at such instructions, provided the entire midfield is not regularly disconnected from the back line via a duty set-up which would make them get forward ahead of everybody. Just plugged this in again, 2nd tier side, whilst this is a friendly against a side not pushing up, we were sitting on the ball with like 70% poss on "control", and outside a few select instances, not happening. A few of these instructions in particular in combination can negatively impact attacking penetration (some also need better documentation), having them all activated as a default in a misguided attempt to get rid of defenders "hoofing" can be imo a very bad idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
qDizzy Posted July 21, 2017 Author Share Posted July 21, 2017 thanks guys for the advice.... thanks Svenc that was pretty close... and yea... would agree with most of that and i have found that all those things do play a factor.... lemeuresnew was pretty spot on though.. changing to "contain" from "control "made a big diffrence.. thanks man... still one thing was missing and thats my full back play.... pretty much would like a complete wing back but without the dribble more thing... ( did try fullback in attack but he didnt get as much far foward as i would have liked , like the complete wing back does...but then the complete wing back does all this dribbling i dont like soo.. unfortunatly... i think im going to wait untill FM 18... and hope they put out another free demo... dont really like the roles tied down to postions.. hope they fix that... its really messing up the way i want the team to play... so yea... really like the concept of the game... really hope FM makes it better... alot things that are frustrating... and yea... i almost decided to try and play a whole another style of play.. because i wanted to really play the game.... i still might... but for now feeling kinda frustrated with the game to the point i dont really feel like playing it... might come back to it though.... i will try and make another post about how the suggestions thread needs to be consalidated (horrble at spelling - LOL) ... but yea... the suggestion thread needs o be better... that way things arent repeated more than once... and if the suggestion was already made... it can just be thumbed up or something.... like im sure.... removing pre-designated roles from postions was already mentioned... so yea if there was a way to give that suggeations a thumbs up... i would give it 2 thumbs up... 4 if i could use my toes... smh... either way guys.. cheers for all your guys posts... greatly apprcitated FM is lucky to have gamers like you guys.. otherwise not sure if i would have given the game another try if it wasnt for all the help i got from the forum.. you guys are in one word: superfradisticecapialitious best of luck gaming to you guys... peace dudes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 @qDizzy Yeh I understand what you're saying. FM does have a pretty steep learning curve and the in game documentation can be somewhat lacking. Something I found that helped me when I first started playing was to simply download and use other people's tactics. Looking back on it now, I found that to be useful because it allowed me to get to grips with (and enjoy) other aspects of the game before I started to worry about and spend time on trying to muddle my way through creating my own tactics. There's a tactics sharing centre at the top of this forum if that'll help. Anything with lots of positive comments from people who have used the tactics would be a good starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 31 minutes ago, herne79 said: There's a tactics sharing centre at the top of this forum if that'll help. Anything with lots of positive comments from people who have used the tactics would be a good starting point. That depends. I agree with a few former mods here, a significant portion does have the opposite effect, it proves harmful for players trying to learn. At the end of each release cycle it's always the same, any such place is then mostly dominated by what currently proves the most "successful" on average (oft simply due to ME weakness, or the AI no yet able to really adapt), and then the next release begins anew. As whilst any short-term AI weakness is up for change, the long-term logics rewarded has been pretty much the same throughout. On FM 16 that hole was the wide areas/crosses, this season it is the narrow overload which can be created from wide as well as narrow formations. In a sense, that isn't learning as it can't be, as it's by-passing the tactics module to begin with to look for an inherently "winning formula". Structurally there is also oft a few holes (which makes for some fairly random matches individually when an AI approach feeds straight into them). That isn't meant to be a criticism at the work done at creating / supplying -- great guys want to help, it's just an observation that dates all the way back to truly Diablo/Kimz. Outside a few, those sections tend to be dominated by short-term solutions to a long-term problem. No matter what you do on these versions, there is never going to be a perfect tactic universally suited to any situation unless SI were to code every player to be the same, same as any opponent using the exact same approaches to matches, plus it being magically possible with the ten outfield players you have to cover every inch of the pitch. There can be quite a learning curve, but if there is ever going to be an ME without defensive leaks (or an AI that truly adapts to where it's getting targeted, or simply starts aping the stuff thrown at it -- pre-season friendlies against the U23s can be an interesting preview into a possible future!), you mods may have a job to do. [From my experience, there is a direct relationship between the size of frustration dumps on sites that are dominated by download sections and how effectively the current one-size-fits-all solutions are]. Aside of the UI and options, my suggestion to improve this in the future relate to assistant management, also making things more customizable in terms of how in-depth you want to go here. That way everybody who ants to delve a bit deeper into match management may have less of a learning curve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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