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dan111

My FM Brexit would improve English football no end

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I don't know if i got the hard or soft (it's my first FM17 save),  but i was told that all EU nationals would require Work Permits the same as previous non-EU players, and that after their current contracts expire this would come into force. Also a maximum of 16 Foreign Nationals would be allowed within a 24 man squad. I've had to lose a few players on account of this, and have been forced to scour the UK market and focus on youth prospects much more. My previous FM16 recruitment policy would be to work my way up the leagues, then exploit the foreign market, looking for gems that could far easier be prised away with a bit of EPL cash. Now it seems much more competitive, and challenging, and will no doubt mean in time a substantial increase in number of British players playing regularly and being developed. 

Aside from the politics of it all, and focused squarely on football, this would improve our game massively IMHO. As fans we all like to see local lads coming through and being given time on the pitch, something that very rarely happens now in the EPL. All the national teams of the UK would improve exponentially too, with this policy. All in all, i've found the Brexit aspect of FM2017 a really interesting experiment and challenge.

How has it played out in your games?

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I've only had hard (but not the hardest) brexit's, always had it come up as all EU players will require work permits but any currently here can remain and that's been the case in my 4 saves I've had this year that have hit the Brexit point.

It definitely stimulates the transfer market in the English leagues as well. I found that as a premier league club championship sides would be turning their eyes towards my youngsters a lot more frequently. 

In my most recent game though it's done nothing to help the English national team, and surprisingly perhaps, the biggest clubs have become less English based than ever. Instead its become an arms-race of sorts between the big spenders for those who can get the work permit eligible players. The English national team is comprised of mainly lower half players.

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Interesting stuff Santy. Have you found it harder to break into the top of the Premiership as a smaller side, post Brexit? I'm playing as Sheffield United, one year in Premiership then relegated, now in promotion chase to get back. Rules came in this season (championship), and feel it has restricted some good value overseas youngster. 

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One of the consequences of the harder brexit scenarios is that if you are playing in the UK but not in the EPL, it is very hard to retain quality youngsters in your own side because the EPL teams are scouring the lower divisions to get the best of UK talent rather than looking abroad.

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@dan111: It is actually not certain that the situation you describe would benefit the UK national teams, and definitely not certain that it would benefit them "exponentially", as you say. Having said that, it *might*.

 

England has achieved nothing in international football since 1966, and it has been a while since they even looked like coming close to achieving anything. If you look at the list of teams they have defeated in international tournaments after 1966, it makes for very grim reading, because the inescapable conclusion is that England is not a major footballing nation, hasn't been for a long time. The population of England is five times that of Portugal, for instance, but Portugal is a much, much greater force in international football. And then, of course, there are the really big nations. (World Cup goals since 2002: Miroslav Klose - 16. The England national team - 17.)

 

The thing is, we just cannot know whether the amount of foreign players in the UK has anything to do with this. But clearly, England was already (at best) a mediocre nation long before the Premier League was (sort of) overrun by foreign talent. So maybe the English players just aren't good enough. That could be the explanation, too.

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Well that's a different subject Monty, but for my money England has had some woeful managers (and certainly continues to do so), and the appalling FA who are always trying to copy some other countries method, just as it's approaching becoming out-dated, rather than making our own model, is the root of the problem.  We had a genuine World Class team in the early to mid 2000s IMHO, but the woeful Sven Goran Ericsson turned them into utter mediocrity. After that we had the hapless Maclaren, the terrible mercenary reign of Capello, Hodgson (!) and now the utter failure that is Pep Southgate....

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I might be worth advising anyone against using FM  experience to judge the real world. ? FM players using it as the source of proof of what the manager should do and who he should buy as you did it on FM? Is amongst the most cringing thing heard at the Football.

I'm pretty sure it's FM & FIFA gamers who are the Club forum posters who cry ''sack the manager'' after 2 months due to this is being an awful long time in football to a gamer.

When it comes to player development in England all I see happening is Clubs buying up the Youth of the smaller clubs at an ever younger age from lower down who will be nowhere near the standard of the first X1.

Qualified Imports will become more expensive due to the drop in the £ and the restrictions of importing. I see the Bundesliga & a resurgent Serie A pushing dees up too. First team Championship players will be more expensive due to relegated clubs being wealthier from parachute payments. Lower Premiership Clubs can hold onto players easier and pay a wage matching squad players at Chelsea.

This will lead to what's going on now, stockpile youngsters from an increasingly lower level. This gives them hope that they've made it and pays them a wage that corrupts their development. They miss out on natural progression through First XI's lower down, they miss the experience of training with and playing against toughened up lower league bruisers, loans may provide playing time but they don't include the low wage experience or the threat of you losing your job if you don't perform.

Unless you are an exceptional talent then the chances of you breaking through before 21 at a top EPL club are slim. As FIFA reject Government interference into FA's and Competitions I cannot see how the UK can do anything different to the EU or UEFA.

 

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@dan111: Although you don't say it as such, your comment reinforces what I tried to point out. In other words: England lacks quality. This applies to the manager side as well (just look at who's managing the teams that succeed in England - certainly not Englishmen).

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And then there is the possibility that in IRL Brexit won´t hit as hard as it does on the game. I am almost sure that IRL football Brexit won´t be as big a issue as it is on FM and therefore it doesn´t make sense even for it to be in the game. I am sure that the governing body FA and the government can come up with an exception rule IRL for Brexit not to affect English clubs. Since the country as a whole only get´s nothing but rare reviews from worldwide if they continue with being one of the best leagues in the world if not the best of all. 

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But Brexit doesn't necessarily hit hard at all on the game. It makes perfect sense that it's in the game, in my view. We don't know what's going to happen in real life, and quite a few different scenarios are possible in the game. I think that's lovely.

 

(In general, I think, Brexit IRL is going to be an incredibly bad thing for Britain, but that's another subject altogether.)

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Indeed the EPL and all its surrounded wealth must contribute a fortune to the Taxman. With all that at stake, i'm sure they'll work a way round it somehow. 

 

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The EPL and all its surrounded wealth adds up to less than 0.1% of the UK economy. It's big, but it's not that big. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Edited by Guest

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But yet the Premier League and downwards strengthens the economy of English clubs and makes England a place for a lot of tourist to come on over and watching the matches. Those are things that even the government wouldn´t want to get rid of. And to take another example is that this summer is a further testament that English clubs IRL really are not afraid at all at Brexit effects as they probably won´t even happen IRL for sporting events. Yes, there could become such expections for athletes from some countries, it would actually even make a lot of sense in lots of ways. 

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22 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

The EPL and all its surrounded wealth adds up to less than 0.1% of the UK economy. It's big, but it's not that big. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

Yes, but it is the national sport and a massive part of people's (e.g. British voters) lives . If the government are believed to have 'ruined football' (to put it in a tabloid sense) then they'd be hell to pay. 

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5 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

@dan111: Although you don't say it as such, your comment reinforces what I tried to point out. In other words: England lacks quality. This applies to the manager side as well (just look at who's managing the teams that succeed in England - certainly not Englishmen).

Twenty of the highest paid managerial positions in world football in a free market are inevitably going to filled by more people of 6-7 Billion population than 55,000,000.

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3 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

The EPL and all its surrounded wealth adds up to less than 0.1% of the UK economy. It's big, but it's not that big. Will be interesting to see how it all turns out.

The worth of any EPL club is pretty small but the exposure one gets by being involved in a £500,000,000 Football Club is significantly more than a company in say Europe worth a similar amount. Buying Man City and investing is small change compared to how much it would cost to buy say Barclays Bank or Coca Cola. Yet how many companies would be better known than Man United that are valued for the same price? The Chinese, Americans for a relatively small price of buying Swansea and the West Midland Clubs have bought regular meetings with extremely wealthy Arabs, Russians, and with Man City Chinese and Arab Governments often involved in similar business. How many yachts, shares and lavish parties would you need to invest in to get the ears of that lot? Who would have heard of Abramovich without Chelsea or  Abu Dhabi without Man City?

Football ownership all over is a gamble but whether your involved out of love or personal gain 

Lower down.  Just think a local Contractor putting a few thousand into a League Two club can for his money get possibly get Cup run and a meeting with some of the wealthiest property owners, Government Decision makers and  Oligarchs in the world.

For a few quid and a bit of free time a Gibraltan, Welsh or Faroes club Chairman can gain a UEFA spot and end up visiting all manner of businessman throughout Europe. For many you may wonder why they put so much into it. 

 

Edited by Chinook2000

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16 hours ago, Chinook2000 said:

Twenty of the highest paid managerial positions in world football in a free market are inevitably going to filled by more people of 6-7 Billion population than 55,000,000.

 

But it's not like that, as you well know: it's not 6-7 billion against 55 million. While those managers could, undoubtedly, come from anywhere in the world, in fact the big ones only come from the major footballing nations, of which there are not many and of which England is not one.

 

There have been some very notable exceptions, Sir Alex Ferguson being the biggest one, of course, as Scotland is a lot "lower" than England as a football power.

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The government would want to keep their interests in having the best league in the world without doubt. They would never agree with a hard Brexit for football clubs because sports is a separate manner than politics in this Brexit issue. Just look at the way clubs are going about this summer, does it seem as if anyone is thinking of Brexit issues? Really? It´s not going to happen for sports, trust me. Fatal mistake to include it in the game. 

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Fact is, we don't know yet, and I'm sure the vast majority of commentators here are uninformed about the subtleties of the question. "Trust me" is not an argument.

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On 23/07/2017 at 17:08, FootballTrainer said:

The government would want to keep their interests in having the best league in the world without doubt. They would never agree with a hard Brexit for football clubs because sports is a separate manner than politics in this Brexit issue. Just look at the way clubs are going about this summer, does it seem as if anyone is thinking of Brexit issues? Really? It´s not going to happen for sports, trust me. Fatal mistake to include it in the game. 

I would like to know at what level the price for imported players has risen since the result. If Man United had bought Pogba prior to the vote what would he have cost?

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I had the hard brexit in my save as well and it's made it really enjoyable to bring thru and find good youngsters to turn into first team players. I've noticed the premier league clubs throwing huge money at my talented players for obvious reasons. I've also noticed that the premier league clubs over the first few years had to let go a lot of young EU players because they hadn't played for their country, so I signed them for free and loaned them out, then sold them on once their value had increased to help keep my club afloat. Great fun so far, on the cusp of promotion finally 4 seasons after Brexit and losing half my team as a result.

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On 19/07/2017 at 11:06, dan111 said:

I don't know if i got the hard or soft (it's my first FM17 save),  but i was told that all EU nationals would require Work Permits the same as previous non-EU players, and that after their current contracts expire this would come into force. Also a maximum of 16 Foreign Nationals would be allowed within a 24 man squad. I've had to lose a few players on account of this, and have been forced to scour the UK market and focus on youth prospects much more. My previous FM16 recruitment policy would be to work my way up the leagues, then exploit the foreign market, looking for gems that could far easier be prised away with a bit of EPL cash. Now it seems much more competitive, and challenging, and will no doubt mean in time a substantial increase in number of British players playing regularly and being developed. 

Aside from the politics of it all, and focused squarely on football, this would improve our game massively IMHO. As fans we all like to see local lads coming through and being given time on the pitch, something that very rarely happens now in the EPL. All the national teams of the UK would improve exponentially too, with this policy. All in all, i've found the Brexit aspect of FM2017 a really interesting experiment and challenge.

How has it played out in your games?

British players are crap pal.

The less of them in the Premier League the better.

British managers are crap aswell. 

 

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