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Kick Wilstra

Pet Peeve: Board has no perspective

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So I'm managing Santos, going into my 2nd full season now, came into the club late 2018, it's January 2020 now.

After I came in brought Santos from a disappointing 13th place to an acceptable 4th place in 2018, I got rid of some deadwood during the break before the 2019 season.

One of those transfers was the sale of a 20 year old 'hot-prospect' who I felt was never going to make the break at this club. He was moaning about training intensity and I had 16 and 17 years old who I would prefer to give game time in the case my first choice striker would be unavailable or in need of a rest. His estimated value was around €100k, but in the end I sold him for €49k, as otherwise he would just be rotting away in the reserves until his contract ran out at the end of the season. His departure was received with disappointment by the fans as well as the board, as the former were under the impression he had some promise while the latter thought he justified a bigger fee. Fine, I get their point, but it was the best offer I got. It seemed like the best available deal for all parties involved, we got something and a the player would have chance to play first team football,.

Now the pet peeve, it's a year later and it's still mentioned by the board in monthly confidence update. This annoys me because:

- Although we only received about 40% of his estimated value, it's better than nothing when his contract runs out. Plus we saved a years salary (actual 30% as I rejected a loan that would pay 70% of his salary).

- He hasn't developed much at his new club and has now only an estimated value of €55k, so we didn't do as bad as it first seemed.

- Although I had a good season, won the Brasileirao and Sao Paulo State championship, we had some actual disappointments the could worry about as well: a shocking 8-2 collapse against a mid-table side, a disappointing Brazilian cup 5-0 first leg defeat and a disappointing second round elimination of the Copa Libaratores. The latter two had a much larger financial impact than this sale.

- We made a record €52 million in total from sales, of which only half was reinvested, and have a health €64 million in the bank. A few thousand euros I might could have made more if I would have been a bit more patient in selling a reserves player seems hardly something to worry about still a year later.

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The language probably comes across as harsher than it actually should be. 'Very poor' makes it sound like it was an awful decision, when in reality the game looks for the negative aspects and picks one as a counter-point. 

Ones like that aren't generally scored that highly but if there's nothing else to comment on it does tend to get a bit stuck on confidence notifications. We're aware of it and appreciate how it can be a bit annoying!

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Don't worry OP, I had the Milan board complaining that I had sold Carlos Bacca for significantly more than his value, and used the proceeds to bring in Belotti and still have some money left over. Never has a better piece of business been done. I just ignore it, and let them complain. So long as they keep offering me contracts and do not sack me.

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1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

The language probably comes across as harsher than it actually should be. 'Very poor' makes it sound like it was an awful decision, when in reality the game looks for the negative aspects and picks one as a counter-point. 

Ones like that aren't generally scored that highly but if there's nothing else to comment on it does tend to get a bit stuck on confidence notifications. We're aware of it and appreciate how it can be a bit annoying!

Thanks for the feedback Neil. Yeah the wording is definitely a bit harsh, considering it was a minor transfer, especially if that's the worst they could come up with. I suspected that they didn't have much else to complain about was the reason they keep bringing this up, that's why I included some points I personally thought would be much more fitting to bring up.

It's not a game breaking issue, but small things like these combined can be rather immersion breaking at moments. Usually I just go to the next view and forget, but decided to start posting them as you guys can only improve the issues you're aware of and I realise these tiny things are easy to miss during testing.

19 minutes ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Don't worry OP, I had the Milan board complaining that I had sold Carlos Bacca for significantly more than his value, and used the proceeds to bring in Belotti and still have some money left over. Never has a better piece of business been done. I just ignore it, and let them complain. So long as they keep offering me contracts and do not sack me.

I'm not worried, just annoyed they've the guts to bring it up :-p

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The situation is just as Neil Brock describes. For whatever reason, it appears that you absolutely will receive some negative feedback, even if there realistically isn't any.

 

I agree with the OP that this is immersion-breaking. And while we're on that subject, here's another example of a small detail that doesn't matter in any other sense, but it does really break the immersion and is therefore quite negative. Again, @Neil Brock, I suggest this is something you could take a look at.

 

When you go to the Match performance screen in the Confidence area, you will often see a list of players whose recent performances the fans have an opinion about. When you actually click on these opinions, they can be seriously messed up, and I mean seriously. At the moment, Philippe Coutinho is my star player who has something like 16 goals and 14 assists in 29 appearances, which is brilliant. And what do the fans say? They are "really happy about the number of INTERCEPTIONS he has made this season" (capital letters mine, for emphasis). D'oh. As if the fans ever cared about something like that for anybody other than a defender.

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Finished third in the PL with Nuneaton, won the EFL cup and got to the quarter final in CL after beating Barcelona and my board's (and probably my fans') focus was on losing in the FA cup and the game made it sound like it was the ultimate sin that I would never be forgiven for in my entire career.

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I should note that it would make sense if it were fans. Fans are never ever happy in real life, there is always something to have a gripe about!

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16 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

The situation is just as Neil Brock describes. For whatever reason, it appears that you absolutely will receive some negative feedback, even if there realistically isn't any.

 

I agree with the OP that this is immersion-breaking. And while we're on that subject, here's another example of a small detail that doesn't matter in any other sense, but it does really break the immersion and is therefore quite negative. Again, @Neil Brock, I suggest this is something you could take a look at.

 

When you go to the Match performance screen in the Confidence area, you will often see a list of players whose recent performances the fans have an opinion about. When you actually click on these opinions, they can be seriously messed up, and I mean seriously. At the moment, Philippe Coutinho is my star player who has something like 16 goals and 14 assists in 29 appearances, which is brilliant. And what do the fans say? They are "really happy about the number of INTERCEPTIONS he has made this season" (capital letters mine, for emphasis). D'oh. As if the fans ever cared about something like that for anybody other than a defender.

I would argue interceptions for perhaps a defensive midfielder could be equally insightful but yeah, absolutely agree for someone like Coutinho it's perhaps not the most pressing stat. Will have a look at it, thanks for bringing it up - although please do remember issues like this, no matter how small, are best suited for the Bugs Forum. 

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Some sort of threshold or sense-check is needed for the $randomnegativepoint that appears on that page. It is possible for you to be doing so well that there isn't anything particularly negative to report that's still relevant

I remember being on course for a second successive promotion and the board was still busy being disappointed about the money received eleven months earlier for a fringe player (barely worth any more at his new club)  who wasn't good enough for me even at the start of the game and would otherwise not have had his contract renewed. 

 

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One suggestion:

 

I'd like it if when a transfer happens we can release an official press release. No, I don't mean another interview, I mean an expansion on the current options of why we're flogging a player. You know the ones: "Player is unsettled", "We need the money." "Contract runs out soon."

 

This way I can say to the fans:

 

"Yes, you're pissed off I sold Jesse Lingard, however, he demanded to leave, he put in a transfer request, and yes, he demanded to move to our apparent rivals." - So when this announcement goes out, the fans can continue to chastise me for selling him to a rival, but they can at least turn their ire towards Mr Lingard for his shocking lack of loyalty towards the club. Bonus points if we boo him every time he appears at Old Trafford from that point on. Triple points if future news reports on Lingard making his career as an Arsenal reserve player results in mocking comments from United fans in-game: "Great career move, eh traitor!" >_>

 

But also, it would be great for other stuff too:

I sold Ashley Young to his boyhood club of Aston Villa down in the Championship. He was old, on high wages, rarely played for us, though he did put in a good shift when he came on. His place was taken by the World class (overrated) Depay and the soon-to-be world Class Marcus "The kid" Rashford.  Result? "The fans find your transfer of Ashley Young to be an aberration!" Apparently he was well-loved, we should have commanded an extorbiant fee, and well, I don't know what else really.

 

I get it, the fans aren't always privy to decision - they won't understand why I've sold Juan Mata, an icon at the club and our top assist provider for three seasons, to make way for the wonderkid Callum Gribbin (who matched Mata in assists with less games last season), so I don't mind those sort of outrage, but for basic stuff like Mr Lingard up there, or Mr. Young, in the twilight of his career, I feel things could be tweaked a little bit more, player and fan relations could be expanded upon etc. And I should be able to say, "I've sold Mata as he's in his 30's, there's a big bid, but also he basically told me he wanted to leave (he did) and I have this youngster who is the next Gazza right here to replace him, what say you?"

 

Then I can come back next season and complain about the fans' response to that sort of thing ;) (Mwahaha)

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It does become quite repetetive to hear the same thing over and over again for things that may in your view as manager be just sales. In the same way it gets boring to hear the board complain about certain results for ages, I mean let go and move on as life around a football club IRL is so much more immense than the board fixating themselves over these small topics for ages. But of course FM is not as immense as IRL-football like always so we are stuck to hearing the board complain over and over again for numerous times over a season over small things. 

And I agree with the operator above that you should be able to adjust your reasons for why selling a player to the fans just so that you don´t lose confidence as a manager in the fans perspective. 

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OP, would this particular piece of negativity not have something to do with you selling that player to Flamengo, I believe they are rivals with Santos, please correct me if I'm wrong. But it seems as though the confidence screen may be coded to include some form of negativity?

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In my experience the "negative" thing they show is always the "worst" thing which may in fact not actually be that bad.  A 48% transfer might do it.  I wouldn't read too much into that because I find it just shows the best/worst thing.

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On 15/07/2017 at 16:10, enigmatic said:

Some sort of threshold or sense-check is needed for the $randomnegativepoint that appears on that page. It is possible for you to be doing so well that there isn't anything particularly negative to report that's still relevant

 

This also goes for the weird negative points in press reports like "he suffered the indignity of being knocked out the FA cup by Stoke three years ago..." literally nobody irl would remember that let alone care enough to bring it up. Just seems weird after subsequently taking the club to a first ever title and a champions league win

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