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Help with Sarri's Napoli tactic

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5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Man what a freaking dilemma it is playing Napoli's system. The very weakness irl are coming to haunt me in this game. 

We played a match against Chelsea..at home

Match starts I decide to be conservative, lets go standard/flexible, things go well ,and then we take the lead. 20 mins later they score andequaliser from a corner we fail to defend from. I scream. With 10 minutes left to the end of the first half, I switch to control and we score 2 gems of a goal. Throughout the first half, I have concerns.

a. My Insigne role player seems to be caught dribbling sometime and loses possession, and my Hamsik dude sometimes gets caught out to. I pass it off. We are 2 goals ahead. 
b. My left back who scored a goal isn't the first choice but I have high hopes for him. He's already on 8.2 and we haven't; even ended the first half. A voice in the back of my head says, stop being sentimental, don't keep him on because you want the high ratings so he gets a knock on bonus to his development. I noticed he's been skinned twice in that half. I ignore the voice.

The second half starts, everything seems hunky dory, I sub off my Hysaj fullback cos I know we need a bit more stability there a player with good composure anticipation will be better. It's the right choice. That flank looks solid. A voice in the back of my head says we need to do sub off the Hamsik dude cos he just keeps screwing up at the wrong time. I don't want to cos I have a soft spot for him. We should be fine.

76 mins - My Hamsik role fails to read a pass, he moves off to early and the pass gets intercepted, the AI win the ball and rip through us to score because of our high line.
5 mins later - My fullback on the left My Ghoulam, gets skinned and they score from the ensuing cross.

Morale of the Story - Even the best laid plans get torn to shreds when you stop looking at the big clues in the game and stick to being sentimental. I was so pissed to see a  9 game winning streak come to an end. Monaco will pay in the next round and that will be the last time this tactic gets used, cos I need to use other tactics on the FM Tactics show. I wanna thank the OP and the rest of the people who contributed to this thread. It certainly was a load of fun.

Almost the exact same thing happened to me.. I was 3-0 up with half an hour to go and managed to draw 3-3. The warning signs were there.. the first goal they score their striker beat the offside trap. Usually this would be enough to make me drop my d-line but because I'm trying to replicate a tactic I didn't. The second goal was scored in the exact same fashion, I was still stubborn and thought we could hold on. After the game I checked the attributes of their striker and he only had 12 for acceleration and pace... definitely need some faster CB's that's for sure.

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37 minutes ago, jc577 said:

Almost the exact same thing happened to me.. I was 3-0 up with half an hour to go and managed to draw 3-3. The warning signs were there.. the first goal they score their striker beat the offside trap. Usually this would be enough to make me drop my d-line but because I'm trying to replicate a tactic I didn't. The second goal was scored in the exact same fashion, I was still stubborn and thought we could hold on. After the game I checked the attributes of their striker and he only had 12 for acceleration and pace... definitely need some faster CB's that's for sure.

I think you have to be a bit more flexible when replicating tactic...if you are holding on to a lead with 10 minutes go, you should make changes to make you a bit more solid at the back. IRL this happens too...even a very attacking team will get men behind the ball in the last few minutes to protect the lead. 

Edited by NabsKebabs

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6 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

I think you have to be a bit more flexible when replicating tactic...if you are holding on to a lead with 10 minutes go, you should make changes to make you a bit more solid at the back. IRL this happens too...even a very attacking team will get men behind the ball in the last few minutes to protect the lead. 

I agree. 100% should have dropped the d-line but I was being stubborn and payed the price for it. Man United vs Swansea was a good example of what you're talking about, lethal on the counter.

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@Rashidi After watching your YouTube vid on overloads (fantastic video by the way, very well explained) I have a far better understanding of your Sarri tactic, especially the roles and duties selected on the left side of the pitch to create combinations. The Spielverlagerung article I linked in the OP referred to the staggering of players during the build-up phases, and it seems you have replicated this nicely. If the AP-s was swapped out for an IF-s, would the overload still be as effective? 

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On 21.8.2017 at 09:51, NabsKebabs said:

A lot of people going for control mentality but in order to draw the opposition press towards your defence, wouldn't lower mentality be the way to go?

^ This. I think control has very nice additions it does, like changes a bit of defensive line and tempo, which will help creating the Napoli tactic, but I think standard mentality would be the best. Let me explain why:

If you use very fluid, which you should on Napoli tactic, adding control on top of it increases every players mentality pretty much to where they will take more risks on attacking and therefore can lose the possession very easily.

So standard would keep the players careful enough to not lose possession to stupid overtrying.

 

As for the shorter passing instruction, I would not probably go for it. I would use mixed. Shorter passing can limit the options and sometimes leave the wings too much out of the passing game and therefore not moving the opposition defense enough to create those spaces Napoli is looking for.

 

As for the formation, I would not use DLF. I would use CF - SU. The way I see it is CF-SU is like false9 and advanced forward combined. Will drop deep when needed to maintain possession but will also look to spearhead attacks unlike DLF.

 

For the roles I would go for

                         CF - SU

          IF - SU---------------------IF - AT

------ AP - SU // DLP - DE // CM SU --------

WB - SU // CD - DE // CD - DE // WB - SU

 

Just my take on this subject.

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One thing you see in Napoli that I don't know how to replicate is their fullbacks. They never push up at the same time, they play like you learn when you're a youngster kind of. If one go up the other stays back. And both to that, you see Ghoulam go up more because he's on Hamsik and Insigne side, but Hysaj does the same.

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I am a Napoli supporter so I watch all their matches... I feel I am quite knowledgeable of the way they play yet I am still struggling to replicate on FM. I think I am very close now, I am playing on high possession and creating a lot of chances. I am playing a Control/Flexible 4-3-3:

                         F9 - S

          AP - S---------------------RAU - A

------ CM - A // DLP - S // BWM - S --------

WB - A // BPD - DE // CD - DE // FB - SU

Will keep trying it, and if successful will post here all the details

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CF.thumb.png.1dadc7bb9aba0ab75cfd4ded1c015d57.png

Well, I don't think Mertens is a CF but definitely is a F9. Higuain, yes, he was a CF; Mertens...well is 1,69m tall and that says it all.

 

The tricky one is Hamsik role in my opinion. He is definitely a passer and he definitely can dribbler, he is always around helping his teammates with a passing option but he is also pretty aggressive in and around the box when the moment is right.

I've tried different things and:

-CM(A): is to aggressive for my taste. He is to early into the box, don't offer that support, that roam around before entering the box;

-AP: is a ball magnet, he move around nicely providing option for a pass, but even with attack duty not seems too aggressive and he attract the ball too much for my taste;

-RPM: almost the same as AP

And my personal choice is...pam pam pam...the Box to box. The BTB have by default "roam from position". Is a hard working role and with the "get further forward" a pretty aggresive one. He always roam around looking to provide a passing option but when the moment occurs he is in the box trying to score. My personal choice indeed.
How I set him: get further forward, more risky passes, close down more, dribble less (I'm not playing with Napoli and I have a bad dribbler).

 

As I said I'm not playing with Napoli, I'm enjoying a Eastern Europe journeyman save right now :D. But let see how BTB is moving at Banik Ostrava:

1. Here the BTB role is played by nr 15, Rogoveanu the MCR. My tactic is inverted, base on my players and the Hamsik role is played by the MCR. Just look how nice the BTB is positioning himself always to get the ball, providing always a passing option like a playmaker but when the moment is right he "get further forward" and BOOM! lethal finish.

2. Here the BTB role is played by nr 12, Nenita. He come deep to provide the passing option, he pass and then move, find the space and score. A big merit have also the F9 (nr 24) who drag after him 4 players and made space for my BTB to score. 

3. Here is again the nr 12, Nenita and he is doing exactly what I want and like: roam-pass-roam and then that beautiful "more risky pass", offering an assist for my F9.

 

Here we recover the ball high in the opposite half and do our pass thing. The BTB is roaming around nicely, coming deep, looking for the ball and then move up. I think I made my point.

Here is a quick counter attack that I love, with some nice and quick passes.
Here is another one with the F9 and BTB in action. Actually we played 10vs11 in this game cuz our DC managed to get a red card. We won because of this counter.

 

Well, I know that Hamsik is not a BTB but is the only role that I like how he moves and what he can produce. He can cover nicely, he move around nicely, he can pass, he can be a threat in the box. What do you think?

 

The tactic

59a4eb0f72348_FCBanikOstrava_Overview.thumb.png.8dedf3d238ab03ea1e27dd18f73311ff.png59a4eb1109e6d_FCBanikOstrava_Overview-2.thumb.png.34f1dcf8c62077ac719a447ace6097ee.png59a4eb12675a2_MASTaborskovBanikOstrava_AnalysisTeams.thumb.png.7611704f9719ffd6df8b1d50662c979b.png59a4eb1451871_MASTaborskovBanikOstrava_AnalysisTeams-2.thumb.png.4ad7fe93575cf5e88d87aeb95671a4a6.png

I know that Napoli sufocate their opponents with a high pressing but I always start with standard-flexible-normal d-line, pause after 15min, analyse my opponents and adjust my mentality, d-line etc it depends. For a period I tried also low and whipped crosses.

GK: distribute to center back
CD: none
DR(FBa): shoot less often
DL(WBs): shoot less often
MCR(BTB): drible less; close down more; get further forward; more risky passes
MC(DLPd): drible less; more direct passes
MCL(CMs): drible less; close down more; roam from position
AMR(APs): sit narrower
AML(IFa): sit narrower
ST(F9): none

The drible less and roam for the MC's are essential for that pass-and-move. I may drop drible less for BTB when I will get one good at it and maybe add roam from position to those 3 up front.

 

Results

59a4ebdbc2f8a_Fotbalovanarodniliga_OverviewStages.thumb.png.cf70b513df28908627c67589d2b3aa67.png

Not so bad for my first year at a team that finished 13th in the second league of Czech Republic before I took them. I may thanks Rashidi for some inspiration and his OI's. Definitely the OI's make the difference.

 

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@IL Luce it is pretty much my tactic but yours is a Napoli-mirrored tactic as you are playing Hamisk and Insigne on the right while IRL they play on the left. It would be interesting to see other stats such as Possession, Shots, Chances per match; IRL Napoli creates a lot and has high %s of possession. Also IRL Hamsik is not dribbling so much so I don't understand why everyone trying to replicate Napoli's tactic want Hamsik to dribble more :) the only player who constantly tries to dribble his opponents is Insigne.

Had thought of Hamsik as a B2B but it is so far away from his real life style that I really can't as I love him so much :)

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On 8/18/2017 at 13:13, Jakob8b said:

This is a topic of great interest to me! Hope somebody comes up with something that emulates the style, whilst also giving good results.

 

I'm going to give it a shot aswell, and here are, what I consider, key instructions that I will start out playing with:

Shorter passing: As a team instruction, this will decrease passing length across the team. Has the added benefit of decreasing space between the players to allow quick, precise and short passing sequences. As a sidenote, I plan on giving key creative players PIs of more risky and direct passing to maximize "killerball" potential in the final third. Definitely the Mertens, Insigne and Hamsik role. Potentially the Jorginho role too (don't want to overdo it though).

Dribble less: A big part of Napoli's philosophy is passing > dribbling.

Roam from positions: I think this is necessary to create the free flowing pass-and-move style play that we see from Napoli. Also, with shorter passing and less dribbling, movement becomes very important for creating chances.

 

A note on tempo too: I don't love the idea of decreasing the tempo. The way I see it, Napoli draw out the opponents by lots of quick and "redundant" passes. My assumption is that very low tempo will make the players dwell on the ball too much and take away from the pass-and-move potential.

Another idea for drawing out the opponents could be the Retain Possesion instruction instead of shorter passing. Might look into that later.

Low tempo actually draws opponents out. It doesn't mean the players will be slow in acting, it just mean there would be more o sideays passing to draw opponents out and in turn this will create space to exploit.

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47 minutes ago, sherifdinn_ said:

Low tempo actually draws opponents out. It doesn't mean the players will be slow in acting, it just mean there would be more o sideays passing to draw opponents out and in turn this will create space to exploit.

It definitely makes the players generally spend more time on the ball before making decisions on what to do.

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1 minute ago, Saevel said:

It definitely makes the players generally spend more time on the ball before making decisions on what to do.

But yet I does encourage the sarri system

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41 minutes ago, sherifdinn_ said:

But yet I does encourage the sarri system

Not necessarily disagreeing with that :)

 

What FM needs is to separate tactics into build up and final third, or something like that. I believe FIFA does this. It should be possible for a slow and careful build up, and then explode into action once the ball is higher up the pitch (or the opposite, for that matter). If you could set tempo, risk (mentality) and passing for each of these stages, it would make things a lot more interesting.

 

Similarily, it would be nice  to be able to set separate instructions for defensive pressure and shape when the ball is deep in the opponent half, vs. when the play has been established in your own half. Like how Barcelona used to press really hard initially, and then fall back if that didn't work.

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