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Barbosa04

Suicide Squad – Breaking scoring records

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Other tactics

 Guardians - Creating defensive fortitude

The Magnificent Four - Strikerless crying havoc

___________

Han Solo - Asymmetric strikes back

 

 

 

In my previous attempt at tactic building the emphasize had gradually shaped into creating solid defensive structure. This time around I’m looking to smash scoring charts.

Considering that my previous tactic would average 2-2,5 goals a game at the end of the season,  I will define “goal bonanza” tag achieved if I’m able to average 4+ a game this time. As I don’t have a squad full of Ronaldos to achieve it, I will create a heavy-attack system, which would require to sacrifice some defensive form to be able to excel in scoring department. So I will be perfectly fine as long as I outscore the opponent. Here we go.

 

16kv1xd.jpg

 

Against Real Madrid in Champions League group match

 

epeyvr.jpg

 

A routine league game

 

4v0q9w.jpg

 

Tactic will arrive soon.

Edited by Barbosa04

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Let’ start from the goalkeeper

Nothing fancy. Despite playing high D-line, I will stick with a regular goalkeeper, as I trust my libero to prevent one on one situations.

Obviously I will be playing attacking football, but still I prefer my goalkeeper to initiate playing out of the defense in a considerate, safe manner. Because I know that my attacking configuration at the top doesn’t require quick balls. I’m happy that opposition will have time to restructure into defensive shape, as long as I can without pressure play out starting from defenders.

So, PI for Gk – slow pace down, roll it out, to specific player (libero), less risky passes.

 

Now to the defense

33p3i1i.jpg

When opposition attacking close to my box. Libero will aline with 2 defenders and act more like central defender on a cover duty. HB will act like an aggressive anchor man.

But what’s the benefit of libero and why can’t I just use CD(cover)? I would say that Libero is supercharged CD(cover) on a steroids. He exceptionally senses the incoming through balls over the top, and prevents one on ones almost always. This gives me a chance to raise the D-line to max even on a ATTACK mentality, which already raises it quite a bit. Secondly, libero pushes the CDs in front of him, such that in some transitions in the middle, CDs will look like DMCs. In conjuction with HB, such layout creates – say layers of defense. When opposition attacking with pace through the middle, HB will first try to engage the attacker, if he fails, next in turn there are 2 more CDs, while there is still Libero covering. Any precious seconds of indecision of attacker gives my wide players to slot into FB position, which then forms a proper 5 man defense with anchor man in front.

The fact that Libero pushes CDs forward gives me sweet triangular/romb like passing options. These special shapes will feature more prominently as we open up the rest of the tactic. See, Libero has forward passing option. It’s close, no need to attempt a long low chance pass. It moves ball forward, and makes the progression of ball in safe, short passes to the top.

Given Libero’s apt to step into midfield and HBs natural tendency to cover behind the CDs, this is magnificent combination, which interchanges beautifully during the play. I put Libero close as a receiver on throw-ins, and next to free-kick taker. This makes him involved quite often close to opposition’s box.

Here is his interception points

260tkp4.jpg

As you can see, he has the most interceptions. 24 to be precise. And that despite his starting position is the deepest. And he manages to intercept quite a few in the middle of the pitch. Perfect.

As these four defenders deal with a lot of crosses into the box, I will recruit only big, strong, with high jumping and heading attributes. Even HB’s will qualify if only he is in the mould of a proper defender, with height and arial prowess.

Now to the middlemen

ohrfdj.jpg    2uqzt4j.jpg

My intentions are to bypass the usually overcrowded middle, so it’s either WPs(wide playmakers) or DWs (defensive wingers) on the sides with AP (advanced playmaker) at the top.

This shape in the middle create another triangulars and a romb starting from HB. Considering I choose the narrow shape in TI and make the wide players to play even narrower. HB should most of the times have a short safe passing option.

While WPs attract ball, it in theory should make CDs and HB to target them as a shorter,safer passing option, which in turn makes the progression of ball in considerate, high-success passing manner. And AP at the top again will play out as magnet, offering shorter, safe pass option from the wide players.

I will play WP when facing opposition with wide midfielders. And DWs when I face  proper wingers.

DWs starting positions are deeper, and they are more inclined to excel in defensive department. Thus they are safer bet when playing against wingers. I’m perfectly happy for them  to decide for themselves when to make crosses. But to add variety I will instruct on to one of them to “go further up”, “cross from byline”. Second DWs PI “cross from deep”. They both are naturally eager to dribble their way up, which perfectly fine by me. And additional PI for both of them “stay narrower”, “mark tighter”.

WPs are naturally stay narrower, and they cut inside and with additional PI “dribble more” they will occasionally end up in AM strata, which results in 3 AMs operating behind my striking force. Sometimes it will pan out really scary, when they all charge forward close to the middle.

WPs should do a decent job defending and covering, when opposition playing with wide midfielders instead of wingers.

AP is a chief operator. He will have so much options on sides and in front of him, he will end up being the channel, initiator, creator, footballing god letting the goal festival to play out during the 90min of personal concert. He will assist, he will co-assist, and co-co-assist. He will always be heavily involved.

 

And now the striking force

2gsg7j4.jpg         zoavr9.jpg

Each variant will play out as third triangular/romb like shape.

As I’m eyeing up a lot of goals, who can I trust to deliver them? Yes, you are right, strikers.

Who has the best combination of Finishing, Composure, Off the ball? Yes, strikers.

Who will spend majority of his time in opposition box, and end up shooting from a closer position? Yep, yep, strikers.

Who will minimize the shambles of a striker who is having an off day? Yes, his partnering strikers, who hopefully didn’t colluded with each other to act like monkeys on a same day.

 

And now the whole system revealed

egbl81.jpg1r3yie.jpgdff043.jpg

...

 

...

Well, tell me thruthfully, aren't you impressed with absurdity of this set-up? I bet now Pep or Mou is anxiously contemplating to implement this in real life.

 

The romb like passing options are depicted below

This eases greatly the ball progression to the top safely, as players are in close proximity to each other and are prominent in every imaginary tactic floor/vertical strata.

2lbicyc.jpg

 

Here is average position of the players after the game

25a6c5j.jpg

 

The majic of Libero/HB partnership

34xrtxv.jpg

 

The WPs creating 6-pack hellforce

ftn7rt.jpg

 

The good thing Of DWs crossing even from deep, that there are always 3 highly positioned strikers in hand, where the opposition defense will have hard time dealing with.

The possession stats are surprisingly pleasing.

9k8iva.jpg

 

TIs for league games for tactics with 3 strikers

11ih3dy.jpg

 

TIs for European games with SS(shadow striker) tactic

kcdws7.jpg

 

Let’s elaborate.

Shape – very fluid. The gaping hole in the middle forces me to address it via compressing the set-up both vertically and horizontally. Shape and width instructions will achieve this.

For league games I’m choosing attacking mentality. Yep, As I recall correctly, the aim was to rip apart the opposition’s net. Dough.

Highest D-Line. Captain Libero for the rescue.

Tempo- Normal. Well it will be quite quick on attacking mentality.

Width – Narrow. Don’t call me narrow-minded, it just that on wide systems, my wide players are hiding behind opposition making them useless most of the times. And it’s crucial to push wide players into friendlier zones, as they are the only the middle men connecting defense to attack. Dough.

Play out of defense, exploit the flanks. To insure the safe ball progression. Dough. Are you irritated yet?

Closing down - On default. Well, it’s attacking mentality, so it’s already higher than usual. I’m still not sure about increasing it. At first I thought I will be having less possession and too much pressing would result in more bookings. But now I see I can easily dominate possession at every game. So maybe max up the pressing? Well, there is  still a fragile defensive structure to consider. When one departs from that romb like shape, there are no CMs to slot-in to cover. So keeping that shape intact seems like safer option. But who am I to tell you? Maybe you will enjoy better results with different pressing.

Work into box. Having constant mobile strikers making runs inside gives me a luxury to be patient and considerate in choosing the right moment for a killer pass. No game passes, without my striker getting into one on one situation. That instruction also curbs unnecessary low-chance long shots.

Run at defense. Well on average higher dribbling attributes are in strikers and wingers. To my delight my offensive players are consisted mostly of them. So I will happily encourage them to do fancy stuff a little bit more often.

 

I think I covered the most parts... Wait, I didn’t tell the deficiencies of this tactic and the reasoning for SS roles. If I missed anything else I will elaborate tomorrow. Feel free to ask anything.

Edited by Barbosa04

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giphy.gif

If the animated gif. is working, you can see that my HB passing to AP who is instantly is pressed by opposition’s middle men. Their 4 back-line can only cover my 3 strikers+1 winger, while 1 obviously ends up unmarked and in dangerous position.

Such scenarios are the textbook goals of this system, as most defenses cannot cope consistently with 5 runners into the box.

If the gif isn't working

 

Edited by Barbosa04

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What is your point for using Libero and Half Back? ain't they just swapping their positions in transition?

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Very interesting analysis, looking forward to more :thup:  

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Hi Barbosa04

I agree with john1, very interesting.

I see that you tested with Anderlecht. From the screenshot you've put up the year 2023.

How many seasons have you tested this tactic. And how long did it take to get the team fluid in tactic.

Also was hard to find the right players to play the system.

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6 hours ago, yau said:

What is your point for using Libero and Half Back? ain't they just swapping their positions in transition?

Libero pushes CDs in front of him and gives me confidence in playing high D-line. In conjuction with HB this creates a nice romb like passing options which eases ball progression. Given Libero's tendency sometimes go further than DMs will usually go - having HB is crucial as he steps back to cover. So you won't lose that shape of 3 man defense.

6 hours ago, john1 said:

Very interesting analysis, looking forward to more :thup:  

 Will be delivered later in the day.

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5 hours ago, advice said:

I see that you tested with Anderlecht. From the screenshot you've put up the year 2023.

How many seasons have you tested this tactic. And how long did it take to get the team fluid in tactic.

Also was hard to find the right players to play the system.

After the success of defensive tactic in previous season, this is a new system, and I'm still adapting and looking to tweak to further increase its effectiveness. I'm in January right now and tactic isn't fluid yet, in fact it's tactical familiarity for SS tactic was defined as awkward in tactics screen before  Real Madrid game. I was also quite active in transfer market in summer window, as my new system required 1-2 new players for a new position and a lot midfield players were sold to raise cash. So I believe team cohesion isn't at its best at the moment.

As for finding right players, I believe apart from liberos, it shouldn't be a such a problem finding decent players. I would suggest to give a thought to how crucial are wide players in this system. You don't want to kick low-chance long-ball passes from defense to attack. So mobile and hardworking wide players who are eager to come deep and open up for short pass is desirable. They should be workaholics. Doing full-time shifts both in attack and defense and as connectors. To excel in these departments having high acceleration and pace are crucial. Also look for high work-rate, teamwork, stamina, crossing and dribbling. A nice compliment would be, anticipation, positioning, marking.

Regarding libero, surprisingly I still don't have half-a-star libero in my squad, but still whoever I place in there is doing a decent job with only occasional lapses. I'm retraining 28year old Dendocker from original Anderlecht squad and young defender into that position but it's taking a lot of time, especially with older players. So I wonder how much it's limiting their brilliance these low stars and how much better they will become once I have natural liberos.

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Hmm this is interesting, especially the formation, you have massive holes (central midfield, wide midfield, uncovered or weakly covered) so I think the right player selection has a massive impact on this tactic. I can see how hard it is for opposition to launch counter-attacks, or to keep hold of the ball, you've overloaded the central area (3 strikers + an AP) and they're being choked out, commiting mistakes or just lumping the ball forward to avoid those mistakes. I am wondering how hard it is for you to  cover those gaps in your formation against top sides in Europe.

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In other words, this is a tactic that just overloads and tries to overrun the midfield and the crucial "just outside the box" areas. Massively exploited area as far as this ME is concerned. That's why he can be 8-2 up after 16 mins against R.Madrid no less, and 11- nil up after 9 game mins. 

The very definition of a broken engine, if you needed proof. 

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20 minutes ago, samuelawachie said:

In other words, this is a tactic that just overloads and tries to overrun the midfield and the crucial "just outside the box" areas. Massively exploited area as far as this ME is concerned. That's why he can be 8-2 up after 16 mins against R.Madrid no less, and 11- nil up after 9 game mins. 

The very definition of a broken engine, if you needed proof. 

Stop it. Just stop it. You are too funny. Don't be so gullible to think that it's possible to get 11-0 after 9 min in ANY game engine. Those are full time results.

mhdf9s.jpg

If I pack and overload my defense and get defensive records, am I exploiting game engine?

If I overload the midfield and enjoy high possessions, am I exploiting game engine? You get the idea.

And those results aren't uncommon in real life. I would 8-2 be Arsenal fan when they infamously played Manchester United in not so distant past.

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1 hour ago, nightwalker22 said:

Hmm this is interesting, especially the formation, you have massive holes (central midfield, wide midfield, uncovered or weakly covered) so I think the right player selection has a massive impact on this tactic. I can see how hard it is for opposition to launch counter-attacks, or to keep hold of the ball, you've overloaded the central area (3 strikers + an AP) and they're being choked out, commiting mistakes or just lumping the ball forward to avoid those mistakes. I am wondering how hard it is for you to  cover those gaps in your formation against top sides in Europe.

Yes, on paper that hole in the middle looks depressing.  But that shortcoming can be somewhat reduced with specific D-line, width and shape instructions. When it plays out it doesn't look as scary as on tactic screen. But nonetheless it's a flaw, I'd say feasible deficiency consciously created to be able to power up the attack. Although my strikers pressurize opposition from playing out of defense, once they manage to deliver to their midfield, my strikers becomes useless for most of the time in defensive transitioning.

Their midfield aren’t pressed and have more time to decide their next move, without dealing with annoying closing down from my side.

And yet this is not the biggest flaw of this system. My wide players have to be on their top form for the full duration of the game, dealing with their wide offensive players. If you add on top of that an attacking fullback on overlap duty, my defense just can’t properly deal with that. There is no CMs who would naturally help out.

Yet still it turns out to be feasible tactic for my Belgian league. While definitely requiring small tweaking for European games. I will expand on that later.

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42 minutes ago, samuelawachie said:

The very definition of a broken engine, if you needed proof

No, not the definition of a "broken engine".

It's an example of creative thinking to exploit areas of the ME that it's not really designed for.  This has been possible since the year dot, and will probably always be possible.

There is a significant part of the community that enjoys playing the game in this way - thinking outside of the box to design such systems.  As SI continue to evolve the ME, creative systems such as this cease to be effective.  But that encourages these managers to continue their creative thinking to find other new ways of designing systems.  And so the cycle continues.

Of course if the rest of us want to design "normal" systems we are quite capable of doing that.  Different people play the game in different ways, it's not a "broken engine".

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16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

No, not the definition of a "broken engine".

It's an example of creative thinking to exploit areas of the ME that it's not really designed for.  This has been possible since the year dot, and will probably always be possible.

There is a significant part of the community that enjoys playing the game in this way - thinking outside of the box to design such systems.  As SI continue to evolve the ME, creative systems such as this cease to be effective.  But that encourages these managers to continue their creative thinking to find other new ways of designing systems.  And so the cycle continues.

Of course if the rest of us want to design "normal" systems we are quite capable of doing that.  Different people play the game in different ways, it's not a "broken engine".

I thought those were the scores at those minutes..my bad. 

But yeah, maybe people that create such tactics that specifically target certain areas of the ME, identify its weakness, and exploit that advantage to the zenit are really good for the rest of us. Coz they are the people that make SI determined to create a more robust game. 

So fair play to you, Mr. Barbosa

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1 hour ago, Barbosa04 said:

Yes, on paper that hole in the middle looks depressing.  But that shortcoming can be somewhat reduced with specific D-line, width and shape instructions. When it plays out it doesn't look as scary as on tactic screen. But nonetheless it's a flaw, I'd say feasible deficiency consciously created to be able to power up the attack. Although my strikers pressurize opposition from playing out of defense, once they manage to deliver to their midfield, my strikers becomes useless for most of the time in defensive transitioning.

 

Their midfield aren’t pressed and have more time to decide their next move, without dealing with annoying closing down from my side.

 

And yet this is not the biggest flaw of this system. My wide players have to be on their top form for the full duration of the game, dealing with their wide offensive players. If you add on top of that an attacking fullback on overlap duty, my defense just can’t properly deal with that. There is no CMs who would naturally help out.

 

Yet still it turns out to be feasible tactic for my Belgian league. While definitely requiring small tweaking for European games. I will expand on that later.

 

Ok looking forward to read it but regarding width, that's affecting the team when you're in possession so your wide midfielders will still go wide when your team loses possession because that's their position in the designated formation (I am sure you know that). Now, the problem here is that, if your wide midfielders lack extremely good mental attributes, you can be caught with through balls behind them very often (tried a similar sistem, with wide midfielders acting like wingbacks). Other than that, from what I know, the wide midfielders (including AM strata) defend wider than fullbacks (usually fullbacks tuck in and form a narrow back four in a conservative mentality), and considering that you've selected Attacking, I am wondering how good they are at defending narrow. Probably you gonna cover this aswell so looking forward to it.

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1 hour ago, nightwalker22 said:

Ok looking forward to read it but regarding width, that's affecting the team when you're in possession so your wide midfielders will still go wide when your team loses possession because that's their position in the designated formation (I am sure you know that).

Ok, to clear the misunderstanding – by playing narrowest, I’m not aiming to turn my wide midfielders into CMs. That’s not possible and it would go against my original intention to omit players in CM strata from my system. I’m trying to safely bypass the middle wall of opposition CM/AMs by positioning DW/WPs in such way, that they would be open for a short/safe/ straight pass to the feet. I’m perfectly fine with them doing their stuff whether it’s connecting with AP or cutting inside or dribbling their way up the field or crossing from deep. It’s just that I should make sure they will receive that ball in the first place.

In narrow system, they are usually situated in the spot between wide midfielder strata and CM strata.

In default and wide systems, they are usually around their opponent or hiding behind them, making straight passes to the feet impossible most of the times.

2 hours ago, nightwalker22 said:

 Now, the problem here is that, if your wide midfielders lack extremely good mental attributes, you can be caught with through balls behind them very often (tried a similar sistem, with wide midfielders acting like wingbacks). Other than that, from what I know, the wide midfielders (including AM strata) defend wider than fullbacks (usually fullbacks tuck in and form a narrow back four in a conservative mentality)

Firstly, if there aren’t fullbacks behind your wide midfielders, your WDs will defend narrow quite similar to fullbacks. The difference between fullback and wide midfielder imitating a fullback is that fullback will be just a notch deeper relatively to opposition winger, so that to give himself a head start in pursuing a diagonal through ball. While defending wide midfielder will be naturally closer to opposition winger to cut out straight passes, but artificially inviting a diagonal through ball.

Secondly, that’s a choice of taste, whether you want to cut out straight passes to wingers, or give yourself better chances being first to the through ball. If the former, your wide midfielder should have anticipation, positioning attributes or acceleration and pace. Better yet both. And my preference to look out for pacey ones first.

But no matter how good your wide midfielders are, that’s an inherent defect of the system, so expect a lot of crosses and from dangerous positions. That’s why I make sure to have 4 big and strong  defenders at the heart to deal with different types of crosses.

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The AI in fm17 doesn't adapt to the tactic that it's facing. Thus it doesn't see glaring deficiencies  of opposition’s tactic and doesn’t try to exploit it.

It counts current reputation based on the strength of the team and current form. And chooses one tactic/mentality from a range of tactics preferred by that particular team or manager.  

It may field offensive looking set-up but if they are tipped to lose by the bookmakers, their mentality will at least be cautious. And that’s always happening to me in my league games. The AIs funny response to Anderlecht’s superiority is almost always identical. Putting both FBs on defend duty, and packing DMCs in front of defense. That represents AIs adaptation/acknowledgment but it actually benefits my style of play and plays to my strengths.

As FBs don’t charge forward, my only wide players don’t have to deal with deadly double penetration (what a description).

Here look

s3k0mw.jpg2a6v77d.jpg2myvzpy.jpg

 

 

Here opposition assumed that dominating the center would improve their chances. Having only fullbacks on wide strata just made my life so much easier. The middle 5 man-hoard looked like headless chickens doing nothing while the ball was spreading around them.

2wc2nwj.jpg

 

 

 

Here they went a little bit more ambitious with their fullbacks, but had similar problem of a hole in the middle, which complicated connecting their players.

vsi1w7.jpg

 

 

But it’s a different tale in Europe. Even lesser teams are more ambitious going forward. Thus in Europe my system is challenged and requires a little tweaking to pass the test.

As an experimenting I went with same mentality and 3 strikers tactic in group stage of Champions League against Zenit

bdlia.jpg

Those games become helter-skelter as both teams give little regard to actually defending. Thus so many clear-cut chances on both sides. Even if won and had advantage in numerous statistical data points, it’s just too risky to play this way and be confident that I will be lucky to progress this way in knock-out stages.

So I went with counter mentality for Europe with slow tempo, short passes and SS instead of F9s.

The reasoning is that, when opposition crosses the halfway line, my strikers become useless in doing actual defending, so my only AP tracks back and does a desperate job of CMs. Now 3 AM strata players increase my defensive body count. SSs attacking instincts aren’t hindered and they represent additional passing option from my wide players, thus increasing connectivity. Slow and shorter and counter mentality makes the game flow more considerate, reserved but still with lot of firepower, as I still have very mobile central attackers and considering European teams doesn’t hesitate to throw bodies forward, I should have a lot of openings. I also expect my DWs to be very cautious going forward, so not to expose my weakest points.

Now against Zenit in second match of group game, but with SS tactic

The scoreline doesn’t really represent the domination I enjoyed.

2vjby2t.jpg

 

 

To better test this system let’s look into double header against Real Madrid in group games

On my home soil they went more defensive, but with numerous runners. My tactical familiarity was far from fluid at that point.

2csar8w.jpgvdcmsg.jpg

 

 

On their soil they first went very attacking. Such layout greatly pressurizes me when playing out of defense. But with no DMCs and high D-line my creative players produced killer balls just for fun. In first half I went 4-1. At the beginning of second half, they went classic 4-4-2 but still with high D-line, so the goalfest continued.

1ywkza.jpgbeetmd.jpg

 

 

Look how many key passes being produced.

taosk5.jpg

 

Group stage results

14ugfvl.jpg

 

Now, I cross my fingers going into the knock-out stages.

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Really interested in this thread, whilst your other tactic was also brilliant, I (and I think several other fm players) love scoring goals more than anything. Your logic behind all the decisions you've made is very sound, and I too was surprised by the amount of possession you were having, although it now makes a lot of sense. Quick question; how differently does the tactic (league not europe), differ when using DW's?

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9 hours ago, jc577 said:

Really interested in this thread, whilst your other tactic was also brilliant, I (and I think several other fm players) love scoring goals more than anything. Your logic behind all the decisions you've made is very sound, and I too was surprised by the amount of possession you were having, although it now makes a lot of sense. Quick question; how differently does the tactic (league not europe), differ when using DW's?

Thanks. I really appreciate that. I would like to take a moment and point out the beauty of possibilities to construct originative systems on fm engines that is still possible and without being forced into framework of same old/same old classical tactics. I don’t have anything against 4-4-2 and its comrades, I’m just not a fan of a notion that “robust fm engine” stands for restrictive frame of selected tactics, mimicking real-life systems.

Considering now there is a serious sentiment to use fm database for real-life scouting, can we assume with child-like glee that new systems originated on fm – would turn out to be a source of inspiration for real life coaches? I promise I won’t sue Pep or Mou for brand infringement if they copy it into real life.

I hope ever-improving fm engine doesn’t go the way of being more restrictive in tactical frames but adding flexibility with tactical choices, expanded roles, widening the ways to play. Because for some of us yearly squad building is just isn’t attractive anymore.

Regarding your question, DWs presumably prioritize defense over attack. So they are better positioned and mentally more inclined to check the running of opposition’s winger. While in attack, they are less inclined to cut in unlike WP while enjoying spending more time with ball, whether it to go wide or bomb-in straight to the byline and cross dangerous fast low cross. So the difference in defensive transitioning may turn out to be very subtle, and my choice may be just a mental gymnastics in how much I want to be invested in defending.

Edited by Barbosa04

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I trialled this quickly last night, just using the formation (with 3 strikers), the TI's and player roles. Didn't use any PI's. It was with a Man United side I have just taken over in 2024 and the results were great.

Played about 7 games, won 6, lost 1 (Man City away). In every game I had 30+ shots and usually had slightly better possession. Most opponents managed no more than 4/5 efforts.

I don't have screenshots as I'm at work but just wanted to let you know my feedback. :thup:

Edited by WhiteRose90

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@WhiteRose90

I would suggest not to dismiss the importance of PIs of this system. Every bit of polishing should enhance the strengths and lessen the flaws of this system.

As for tough matches (Man. City away), when you are not clear favorites by the bookmakers, your opponents would likely put an attacking fullback. So counter mentality with SS tactic would better withstand such opposition in my humble opinion.

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First phase of Belgian league is over. Time to draw conclusions. The system gained consistent results surpassing my initial expectations.

But I have to admit that I’m having a tough love in my Anderlecht save. League prize/TV money and consistent windfall from European successes aren’t being enough to service ever increasing wage bill/agent fees. That pushes me to be a stern negotiator in contract talks, putting me on brink of braking relationship with players.

And it finally exploded. After implementing this system, goals poured, resulting in increased ratings for all my players across the board. My best players averaged 8.5. This must have made shockwaves across the Europe, bringing and attracting vultures namely scouts to access the extraordinary heroics happening in Belgian capital.

They somehow assumed that January transfer market is a Black Friday sales time, queuing up to rip apart my whole team. 9 first team players and most of back-up players were attempted to be hijacked with insultingly low bids.

My AP bought 2,5 year ago for 50 mil. hard earned money(wink, wink) to be a key player for the next decade, somehow decided he is entitled to go, when another team bid 23 mil. for him. What a hell? You are throwing a tantrum for me blocking a move that offers half the price you were originally bought at? Who is being irrational here? Another entitled queen striker Masek who sulked for the best part of last season, finally got his new contract in October making him the highest wage earner by far. What would you expect now from here? Yes, only 3 month passed, and he is already moaning about wages being not enough... For what? Starting a colony on Mars? Buying 3in1 indulgence from 3most trendy religious leaders… just to be sure?

2 more players complaining to teammates. 3rd made a training ground bust up. Squad harmony dropped to 65%. Mutiny is imminent. On this note let’s bring up the league results.

51vv5z.jpg

Ok. My primary objective is achieved. My team scored on average more than 4 goals a game. The goals conceded is somewhat misleading, as in first 23 games I conceded only five and after the mutiny 8 goals in 7 matches.

Let that sink in - 5 in 23 and then 8 in 7 games. That’s how much squad harmony affects results on the pitch. Luckily the attacking potency of the system ensured never failing to score tendency and outscoring the opponent wasn’t a problem in league games. The only draw of the season happened in September, when tactical fluidity wasn’t great and the game happened when players were returning tired from national duty. So it was 1 step from making a historic 100% season.

 

But, let’s not be distracted from unimportant data and return to bashing my players, and specifically an infamous striker Masek. To make sure you are on track with Masek’s story, it would be relevant to bring up memoirs of him hitting 52 in 47 games 2 seasons ago. Such sweet times. He was a golden boy, albeit with penchant to get rusty. Last season finished with him playing Champions League final. He ended the season on 2 goals in last 18 games.

A scarecrow would’ve put more pressure on opposition’s defenders. You dragged your ass across the pitch as if you’ve swallowed an anchor for breakfast. I know your aunt isn’t proud of you at these moments. I barely stop myself into barking out colored insults. Lord, give me a chance to run into the pitch to give you a hard kick-ass to bump up your acceleration attribute.

This season you decided to perform for a change. You’ve scored 25 in 22 games till January - now your annual point of sulking kicking in. This time your dream destination is Monaco. But they didn’t/won’t bid, while you will pretend to be Ronaldo on pitch, but with Bebe’s  legs. It’s DeJavu all over again. You smirk, nod-nod, wink-wink, and grin like a Cheshire cat when I criticize you after the game. You promise to improve, but that’s about it, you never go further than a promise.

This in conjunction with your treacherous teammates don’t give me high hopes going into knock-out stages of Champions League.

Edited by Barbosa04

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@Barbosa04 This is great to see working, I too tried to get a Libero and HB working with two CB's set to stopper. But i couldnt get it to fit with the rest of my team, however you have seem to of cracked it! 

 

I think you and i share the same passion for deep lying creative football, I think theres something exciting about converting a very talented ball player into a Libero watching him maraud up field strutting his stuff pinging passes around like a boss.

 

Great work and i will nab this tactic and see if i can make any adjustments to fit my team :)

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Very interesting thread and writeup. 

I always like a 3 strikers formation as it will cause immense pressure on opposition defenders. 

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Ok, so i gave the tactic a go with none of my own modifications with my Ajax team. Results were indifferent only lost two but won 4, and only two were 3 or more goals. 

 

I do like the way the football is played however could you possibly write out each players PI's that you use and perhaps the PPM's you recommend please?

Kind regards.

BTW my Libero is Matthijas De Ligt... not even a 1 star yet but is always my top defender, 7.3 and above in each game.

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Can we see screenshots of the key players. just to see their attributes

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23 hours ago, craigd84 said:

Ok, so i gave the tactic a go with none of my own modifications with my Ajax team. Results were indifferent only lost two but won 4, and only two were 3 or more goals. 

I do like the way the football is played however could you possibly write out each players PI's that you use and perhaps the PPM's you recommend please?

Kind regards.

BTW my Libero is Matthijas De Ligt... not even a 1 star yet but is always my top defender, 7.3 and above in each game.

Craig, this is not a plug-and-play tactic. I wouldn’t expect it to instantly click with any team. But I’m pretty sure Ajax is strong enough for its league, so some tweaking and acknowledging opposition’s formation should do the trick. You should analyze what kind of goals you are conceding and try to shore up that weakness. I reckon most goals conceded are through a winger bombing from a wide positions.

The fragile defensive shape requires excellent teamwork. Players should know when to leave their position and when to cover for a teammate. Strong fluidity with tactical familiarity is imperative.

There is enormous pressure on wide players, and I would suggest to use all your budget to strengthen them as much as possible. About 95% of goals I concede come from a winger outpacing my wide player. But the center is rock solid and isn’t breached by any amount AMs/STs.

Another feature of this system is having big players. There is only 2 players shorter than 180cm in my squad, due to them being exceptionally talented and in offensive positions. My big central defenders including HB and Libero can deal with high crosses and being also strong presumably makes them tussle and prevent opposition getting into better positions in the box.  So this also helps in corners and free kicks. I conceded only 1 from corner and scored 17.

As for PIs there are not many. DW –“stay narrower”, “mark tighter”. WP – “dribble more”, “mark tighter”.

Goalkeeper – “slow pace down”, “roll it over”, “fewer risky passes”, pass to Libero.

Optional PPM for wide players – dribble down the flank, play one-twos, run with ball more often, mark tighter.

AP – “comes deep to get the ball”, “tries killer balls”.

In 3man attack, the wide strikers will usually come from uncomfortable angles, so putting a left-footed on the left and vice verse is preferable.

A DW may be put on defend duty with man-marking instruction, if he is struggling and facing a very talented winger.

Switching between 3 versions of tactic is desirable and some additional tweaking shouldn’t be disregarded. Once you are trotting on a streak of wins, oppositions will start lining-up defensively with FBs on defend duty which will greatly benefit you and prolong your winning streak.

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6 hours ago, GloryFan2002 said:

Can we see screenshots of the key players. just to see their attributes

Sure.

Here is my consistently inconsistent striker.

2rgi0t0.jpg

 

The midfield maestro, the conductor of the footballing orchestra. He may not have exceptional assists numbers, but he usually assists the assist providers.

dlsyok.jpg

 

And one of the best players I ever had on fm. Snapped him at 35mil. which is a bargain for such godly talent. Too bad he gets lengthy injuries every season right now.

331zi9s.jpg

 

 This pic expresses his and his backup player’s defensive and attacking prowess in numbers

2d9r8td.jpg

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Another ride in Champions League knock-out stages is underway. There is a mixed feeling of confidence and despair filling me up on account of swashbuckling football on show presented throughout the season, and coupled with dire state of harmony in team right now.

I faced Sporting in that stage last season. Opposition of this stature would be welcome. On behalf of my squad, I could promise that half of the team wouldn’t perform. Well it’s PSG then.

PSG. The team that doesn’t pass the chance to troll me every effing transfer window, planting dangerous ideas of greener pastures into the feeble minds of my players. Infidels in disguise of PSG scouts are constant breeders of disloyalty in my team. So either they knock me out and ultimately succeed in their trolling efforts, or I serve them a kick-ass football.

They set-up fm’s one of the most balanced formation, with one of the FB on attack duty.

292wn0p.jpg

 

In first game on their soil my trend of conceding every game continued, since the team harmony has sunk to all time low. Luckily, things at the other end of the pitch are still potent. So I won 3-2.

On return leg on home soil, they started the same way only switching to more attacking variant in the second half. The game was surprisingly low-key. I ultimate lost my faith in my consistently unsettled striker, who failed to score in both matches and was on trail of 10 continuous hours of misfiring.

4k90r9.jpg

 

Neeeexttttt- I exclaimed in joy and immediately was thrown a Bayern at me to knock that arrogance that was filling me up. Ohh, I can see I. Blank leads the line of Bayern’s attack. I wish him to be true to his name and fire blanks against me.

Bayern’s tactic

25rnz92.jpg

 

Let’s show the merits of individual marking instructions. Most goals that I concede come from wide positions and due to lapse of concentration of DWs. I accept that, as it would be unrealistic to expect them to do exceptional job for the full game/every game. And in Europe most opponents are not afraid to play on higher mentalities, thus increasing the forward run from their offensive players. In such cases, my DWs personally marking the opposition’s wingers reduces the threat.

Here opposition started playing out of defense. As using SS tactic, I can’t immediately put pressure on them. Look at the circle. Their winger is just about to start moving. My DW is closely following him.

2saz690.jpg

 

Moments later, their FB waits too long and his forward passing options are all closed down. Their winger in the circle made attempt to a forward run but wasn’t available for a pass, because DW is properly glued to him. So the defense in under pressure, they crack up, lump it forward aimlessly, I recycle the ball immediately, and the opposition is pinned down deeply, my DWs are not afraid to join the attack. I score moments later.

t631qd.jpg

 

Despite the dominance I enjoyed in the game, I came up short of getting a healthy lead before a return leg.

2i9sgat.jpg

 

Luckily, I sealed the defense for the first time in long run of games, courteous of Bayern receiving red in next game. I also saw one, but their happened in the first half, and they changed formation to wingerless, which greatly eased pressure on my defense.

2mh6hw2.jpg

 

So far, so good, A streak of 10 wins in Champions League. None are being able even to get a draw from a game against us. Perfect. Arrogance transforming in to cockiness didn’t sway learning we would face Man. Utd. in semis.

 

 

My best player by far, who recently won the World Player of the Year award, and plays in one of crucial positions (DW) is out with long-term injury as my second best striker also unavailable for the rest of the season. So I will reluctantly call up my rotting best striker Masek, who was kept out of the team for the last 4-5 games, and wasn’t even a bench-warmer those days. I hope that, these omissions will spur him and motivate to put on his scoring shoes. It also comforting that the squad harmony has improved and at 85% right now. But there are still players whose head are not properly placed and they show indifferent form. Ok, then.

For the first game in Old Trafford, Red Devils went ultra attacking. Their set-up featured wingers with both FB on attack duty, and possibly Luke Shaw on CWB role. That’s a death sentence announcement before the game for me. Surprisingly they didn’t go high with D-line, and during the game I saw how quickly they transition into defensive shape.

15hylfr.jpg

 

As an experiment, I put my SS players to mark the Utd.s FBs. It can look ugly in play. Here is an example.

i6crox.jpg

 

In fm17 marking instructions are carried out only when the ball is played. So before a throw-in happens my SS player in circle is in his natural habitat. Once a throw-in  is executed, his marking instruction kicks-in and he rushes towards his far positioned marking target and stupidly exposes the dangerous area with unmarked opponent, requiring his teammates to react quickly and close-up that hole.

 

On other hand, in this case, his marking instruction bears fruitage as he intercepts the ball and kickstarts a counter attack.

2czdq87.jpg

 

So, it’s controversial decision to give your SS players man-marking instruction on FBs. There are pros and cons and it may vary from game to game the ratio of benefit/harm of such decision.

 

 

29zynw5.jpg

 

And finally I drew. Wow that’s  rather odd feeling. It must be strange not to be happy to draw with Utd. on away match. At last Masek decided not to be a passenger in game and scored a brace.

On return leg, they started with same set-up, but with rather reserved roles for their FBs despite needing a goal to progress.

A brilliant Rashford outsmarted/outpaced my DW and scored. Can’t complain, but that’s a worrisome start. And Man. Utd. immediately changed formation.

23lk3r7.jpg

 

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that’s double-decker bus in best of Mourinho’s traditions. So I changed to 3ST/attacking set-up.

Our ordeal continued as my usually super reliable Libero had a rare moment of brain freeze…

 

 

 

But drama wasn’t over. Utd. formed a wall. My strikers hammered relentlessly. In one moment of tussle in their box more reminiscent of a rugby match, the ball bound-rebounded and and Masek managed to direct it to into goal. Whoah. Masek, if I only had some chanting- creating skill, I would devote them to you. But we still need to chase the deficit.

And brilliant Masek continued to produce majic as his defense splitting pass put another striker through on one on one. Cool finish and the scores are level.

It took 89th min cross and Masek’s touch to crush the hearths of Red Devils and put us through to the final. Masek with another brace and assist, who is endless receiver of my malignant criticisms turned into a legend.

2ec3xpx.jpg

 

The Final awaits us.

Edited by Barbosa04

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Su 28/6/2017 alle 14:11, Barbosa04 ha detto:

Altre Tattiche



 

Nel mio precedente Tentativo di costruzione TATTICA Il sottolineare AVEVA un poco a poco forma Nella Creazione di Solida Struttura difensiva. This volta sto cercando di distruggere Classifica Marcatori.

Considerando Che la mia TATTICA precedente sarebbe nei media di 2-2,5 gol a partita, alla multa della stagione, mi definiscono “Obiettivo bonanza” tag raggiunto se Sono in Grado di mediare 4+ Un gioco this Volta. Come non ho Una Squadra Piena di Ronaldo per realizzarlo, creerò un Sistema pesante attacco, Che richiederebbe un Sacrificare Qualche forma di Difesa per Essere in Grado di eccellere nel reparto di Punteggio. Così sarò Perfettamente bene finchè io outscore l'avversario. Eccoci qui. 

 

16kv1xd.jpg

 

Contro il Real Madrid Nella partita del girone di Champions League

 

epeyvr.jpg

 

Una partita di campionato di ordinaria

 

4v0q9w.jpg

 

Tattica Arriverà presto.

 

Can we have this fabulous tactical friend?

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2 hours ago, All.blacks said:

Can we have this fabulous tactical friend?

Welcome to the forum.

If you continue reading the thread you'll find it's all there.

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22 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Benvenuto nel forum.

Se si continua a leggere il thread troverete è tutto lì.

 

I read both this post and the other but I do not find any files to download, I'm using the google translator I apologize for my language

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12 minutes ago, All.blacks said:

 

I read both this post and the other but I do not find any files to download, I'm using the google translator I apologize for my language

There are no files to download.

All the information to copy the tactic is provided, however the purpose of the thread is not to download it, but to discuss it.

Hopefully you understand :).

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I understand, but even with the translator I can not build the same tactics, if someone can put the file of tactics thank you ..

Edited by All.blacks

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I think it would be better to use regular fullbacks(someone in the mould of A.Valencia) as defensive wingers and a BPD as the libero. 

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Helo,

Very goo Job. No upload link to test your tactic?

Edited by herne79
removed very long quote

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25 minutes ago, jules34 said:

Helo,

Very goo Job. No upload link to test your tactic?

Welcome to the forum.

All the information you need to recreate the tactic is included above.

By the way, please don't quote such a long original post.  It makes the thread tough to scroll through.

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With a close read through post #1 it is possible to find both TIs and PIs - sadly havn't had the time to try it out yet, but interresting to see the libero role used, that dosn't happen too often :)

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3 hours ago, skyline72 said:

I think it would be better to use regular fullbacks(someone in the mould of A.Valencia) as defensive wingers and a BPD as the libero. 

But Antonio Valencia isn’t a regular fullback. Well he wasn’t for the most part of his career. He was converted to FB from winger position once he became predictable in his attacking moves.

In this system offensive qualities are more valuable than FB’s marking/tackling qualities for that position. It’s easier to find a proper wide player with explosive speed coupled with crossing/dribbling/vision/passing attributes and while having decent defensive nous. FB’s marking/tackling won’t appreciably improve defense in that position as DWs play a very high risk football, staying just in line with the opponent, so anticipation and speed are what counts in most situations.

And I also play WPs instead of DWs sometimes, so it’s definitely not in FBs set of skills. Add on top of that most FBs are tiny players, I would dismiss them right away, as I like to have big players everywhere ensuring domination in set-pieces.

For libero – converted BPD is an option. But I see for libero position - a converted player from DMC as the best. A proper defensive midfielder will have decent defensive attributes, sometimes with even better for such attributes as bravery, strength, and while having a visionary/passing skills. Add a height and aerial prowess, there you get an exciting Libero.

Edited by Barbosa04

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@Barbosa04

Thanks for sharing. I am thinking of 2 sets of players(2 DW and 2 WP). So its 4 different players. 

Your thinking of a Libero choice opens up my mind!

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So here we are, at the final hurdle – Champions League final. We had some high profile encounters against illustrious opponents this season, starting with dismantling of Real Madrid in group stage and getting scalps of PSG, Bayern and Man Utd in knock-out stages.

There is extra buzz going around after youth team also won U19 Champions League this season. It further illustrates the strength of the system, considering my youth team is average and without any standout players.

2w7hmif.jpg

 

But it wouldn’t be such cherished challenge without some bleak news, is it? As it’s the end of the season and the transfer rumors have started infecting the minds of my players. On the final day, the squad harmony is at 59%. Ok then.

Tactics

seq6iw.jpg

 

At the second half they went ultra attacking, so I switched DW to defend role and checked the man-marking role as their STs were changing positions with wingers.

 

ne8dio.jpg

 

DWs on defend duty coupled with counter mentality are very reserved and don’t join attack even when opposition is pinned deep at their box. It gave me some assurances in checking the running of their wingers.

Results

ru9zk7.jpg

2uiaeck.jpg

 

After this roller-coaster season, I’m super happy with football on show that was produced by this system. As probing in new horizons is always more exciting than staying in known habitat, I’m looking for a new system. I have already some idea in my mind for a new brand of football. Next time it will function on totally different principles than my previous two tactics. But one feature will remain – it will be unconventional system.

I will take some time from game before I plunge into another fm marathon.

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how would this tactic need to be tweaked if you were to use wingbacks rather than wingers?

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20 minutes ago, Asim said:

how would this tactic need to be tweaked if you were to use wingbacks rather than wingers?

Link-up play would be greatly affected. The distance between offensive and defensive players would create 2 sets of detached groups.  Certain opponents would easily press and force a lumping forward passes from your defense which isn’t desirable. Thus getting consistent results would be highly questionable.

Wide players play pivotal role of connecting these groups in this system, so they need to be right in between them to have a high success rate of passes.

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Will try this tonight with my Newport County team. Interested to see if this can score goals in lower leagues.

 

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I incorporated this into my FM14 game, with some minor adjustments. While it was very successful at first -- lots of wins, shots and scoring opportunities -- the goals did not materialize. I only scored more than a couple of goals in league games once or twice in 10 games, with no wins by more than one goal (I blew out two Championship teams in the FA Cup). The more I used it, the less effective it became, and I soundly lost to a Championship team, so I had to give it up. 

I have found your "defensive fortitude" tactic much more effective. 

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Great tactic very over powering for a strong team, im using it for a Man Utd save in year 2023, a few tiny tweaks, like using sweeper instead of libero(find I'm more confident comfortable with him staying back always) I'm allowing my front 3 to roam causes havoc as well, also have my 2 f9 my ap and wingers and hb all with the  mark tighter instruction, 60% possession 30-40 shots per game with plenty of ccc's,  thanks

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this is fantastic, probably one of the most coherently formulated tactical write-ups around! glad to see 'thinking out of the box' paying off :)

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11 hours ago, United_kaz said:

Great tactic very over powering for a strong team, im using it for a Man Utd save in year 2023, a few tiny tweaks, like using sweeper instead of libero(find I'm more confident comfortable with him staying back always) I'm allowing my front 3 to roam causes havoc as well, also have my 2 f9 my ap and wingers and hb all with the  mark tighter instruction, 60% possession 30-40 shots per game with plenty of ccc's,  thanks

I’m glad the system is working for you. As for tweaking, I find sweeper role is too limiting. There is nothing in his set of skills that are not present in Libero. Also there is half-back who can fill-in if Libero caught high up the pitch, so Libero wouldn’t be high-risk commodity to have. At least in fm17.

As for personal “mark tighter” instruction, I find in fm17 only wide players will naturally stick to opposing players. For the rest of the team, there is no visually apparent change in player behavior if you give them “mark tighter” instruction, unless you give a man-marking instruction. And that’s especially true for offensive players.

For “roam more” personal instruction, I see it is better utilized in systems where there are few attackers with slow build-up, so opposition can easily mark your attackers unless they are roaming to “unmark” themselves.

In this system, 3 attackers with 2 wide players joining on sides coupled with attacking mentality, which creates quicker transitions… opposition has no chance to mark every player. “roam more” of F9s could mean they roam in lateral direction, getting in your winger’s playing area.

But that’s just my suggestions. As long as you like what’s happening on the pitch – no reason to change.

10 hours ago, LPQR said:

this is fantastic, probably one of the most coherently formulated tactical write-ups around! glad to see 'thinking out of the box' paying off :)

Thanks. I took an example of your neatly well-presented tactical threads. So admittedly you are a trend-setter. :brock:

Edited by Barbosa04

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Very nice tactic, will try it out soon!

 

As for..

 

Quote

But, let’s not be distracted from unimportant data and return to bashing my players, and specifically an infamous striker Masek. To make sure you are on track with Masek’s story, it would be relevant to bring up memoirs of him hitting 52 in 47 games 2 seasons ago. Such sweet times. He was a golden boy, albeit with penchant to get rusty. Last season finished with him playing Champions League final. He ended the season on 2 goals in last 18 games.

The reputation thingy you mentioned earlier that AI plays against you (and maybe also the average rating) definitely plays a part in this. The more the player gets awesome ratings, the more he thinks he's Ronaldo/Messi and feels like he deserves 200K Euro per week. I've seen players at AI clubs barely move their wage up as they average 6.50 - 6.70, but if you get a tactic kicking in like this, you either must increase their salaries by a lot or expect to transfer players often otherwise you're in for such disgruntled Madonnas :D 

 

I'm currently telling half of my Fulham team that they "still have plenty of time on their contract" and that works for now, even though this lot promoted me from League One to the Championship and I'm still keeping them at 2.5K/3.5K Euro per week :D

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