Let's have a game of guess the score...

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

@Svenc

I'm not convinced the ME plays anything more than a minor role tbh.

AI/opposition tactics are a different matter but users should be recognising the issues and dealing with them during the match. 

As for user tactics likewise, if they are causing an issue users should be recognising that and dealing with it.  Different tactics employ different ideas and different styles.  Its only natural that some choices will lead more shots through natural means.  Its not the MEs or SIs job to then go and crowbar in some coding so the user doesn't become frustrated.  Poor choices should be punished in the same way that good choices are rewarded with a little luck/random added along the way.

The long-term issue is two-fold:
1) Fm on a stats level not providing that decent a feedback. How much can you trust a stats page that never shows how many counters a side concedes or how much opening it creates (from actually play, given that boxes are packed on anything else)
2) There is always some approaches in there that make it very easy to dominate possession and shot counts, even against the best teams. Imo FM 2017 has made it worse as all you would need is an advantage in central positions. You can clock Barcelona down to 30% of possession in their own back yard with average sides that ways. However, as they are pushed back then, that regularly creates lots of set pieces typically, in particular when the measures taken to dominate the possession run fundamentally opposed to stretching an opponent (often the case). This gives off the illusion that you would be "all over an opponent" if all you watch is stats, when in fact something else is going on. With some more adaptive AI, it wouldn't be as big a deal naturally.

However I agree it's nothing you can't deal with! The problem is typically when somebody isn't suscribing to team sport logics (opening/denying space), and/or confuses having three four five times as many shots plus dominating possession (:rolleyes:) as "playing well". Which is naturally what most stats shown on Television encourage. It oft isn't. Not a slight bit. It's having more of the ball and having more "attempts", no more no less. Unfortunately though, the post-match "reports" players get also draw heavily from such "logics", reassuring continuously frustrated players that they were just "wasteful" or "unlucky", never making them question that their approach to that match/opponent may have been fantastic at keeping the ball from them and pegging them all throughout back -- but at carving their defenses wide open it were pitifully poor.

@sporadicsmiles Good post!

Edited July 19, 2017 by Svenc

[Maw74]

7 hours ago, Svenc said:

 

@Maw74 3-2? Stopsley taking something from this is kinda given away by the match ratings (better to hide those). :-)

Yeah should really have hid those.

The result was................

[enigmatic]

On 7/16/2017 at 20:29, Svenc said:

As for this one, huge possession counts coupled with an above average corner count always looks suspicious (this is experience), and smells of a side pinned back all match but rarely stretched for set-piece-o-ramas (3/4 of those on target shots so-so headers etc. from a forward marked and under pressure, which I personally consider an ME weakness that it is so easy to amass those so "easily", btw), so probably no goals for Unterhaching, with the possibilty of Nürnberg winning it from an own goal probably helped a [tiny] bit by the frustration that would typically settle in upon wasting so many "quality" shots.

You weren't a million miles away, but that was the one that finished

Spoiler

1-0 to Unterhaching, which was probably the least weird scoreline of the lot

It's the others that were more remarkable, like the cup match later that week that finished

Spoiler

3-0 to Nurnberg. They scored with their first three shots. And frankly deserved it, because the large number of shots my Unterhaching side mustered up pretty much all came when I was 2 goals down and I never really looked like making a comeback. IIRC the "clear cut chances" were one-on-ones from a narrow angle with a striker that wasn't that great at finishing

 

And this one below, which is probably the most bonkers scoreline I've seen in FM

Spoiler

 

Unterhaching won 9-2. Yep, it's the human side vastly overperformed in terms of chance creation and conversion, but of course we human managers don't complain when they score nearly every other shot and the AI only converts 1 in 7 in a very open game because we're too busy being happy with how good we are 

(also Nurnberg's chances created flattered them and they were a lot worse than the game they won despite creating far more chances; I didn't bother to shut the game down after taking a three goal lead because it was the last game before Christmas and I was having so much fun mopping up their relentless crosses and playing the ball in behind their nonexistent defence...)

 

 

 

[gunner86]

Guess the score...

[Svenc]

On 22/09/2017 at 18:44, gunner86 said:

Guess the score...

0-1 with at least if not more than half of those SOT being the perennial Header from the set piece under pressure. As the shot count is this one dimensional, the AI went with ist extreme interpretation of parking bus tactics from the off, and didn't even try much. Arsenal played completely into their Hands by compressing the space both centrally and out wide, pushing Players up in vast numbers, never Opening up any quality space, barely ever stretching the Opposition so that it would have got a foot into the move over and over. The 0-1 was scored from a Buggy own goal, naturally. And whilst on average with that shot Count you'd expect there to be 4-5 Goals in there, were the game to deal in xG, the expected scoreline was 1-0 or 2-0 at very very best. However, as it doesn't… 

*bump*

 

This was a good thread, after all. And it may be actual useful for the devs to gauge how a) their Players Interpret the stats the game offers. and B) get ideas on where to improve them...….

Edited December 2, 2019 by Svenc