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Let's have a game of guess the score...


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3-1. :onmehead::hammer:

2nd minute: 1-0 off a counter attack due to a hole in there that big no team in competitive football actually commits to outside of schoolkid's levels. Lynn's manager applies some fixes quickly, hopes nobody was looking
3rd minute: Grimsby retreats into its defensive shell and lets their opponent happily dominate their stats
10th minute: 1-1 King's Lynn lucky scramble off an indirect free kick. Grimsby opens up again
12th minute: 2-1 scored off an assist of the jumping reach/header/strength 16 Target Man each, who as predicted proved troublesome for the Lynn's dwarven defense before
13th minute onwards: Grimsby building the Walls Of Jericho for realz, doesn't even try much for the remainder of the match
90+3th minute : 3-1 scored after the badly managed King's Lynn team went all frustrated/nervous/pretty pissed, leading to an error and an OG

Aftermath: Doing its very best to pay tribute to all the completely clueless football punditry in the world -- post match reports goes "wasteful King's Lynn!". What it failed to pick up on was any of the above. Or that King's Lynn tactics compressed the visible attacking space to the size of a tuna fish can even without Grimsby needing to "contribute". In turn leading to 3/4 of the 9 "on target shots" from Lynn  being from set pieces exclusively, which meant the forwards were under pressure on all, making life easier for the keeper (still a MOM award from those clueless amateurs, mind). 3 of the supposedly "clear cuts" were from yards out / immediately blocked, and two of them each fall in that range where you would expect to convert 1 in 5 at best, as whilst the forward was in reasonable space, the GK had it reasonably easy to worsen the angle by rushing out of goal.  Lynn Manager pretty pissed, rage-quit, logging onto community.sigames.com to post how he's never going to buy this again.

tldr; Not actually quite serious, but then it's tough to tell without knowing any context. :p

Edited by Svenc
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2 hours ago, smp20 said:

x

If I had to guess based on those statistics with absolutely no context, 0-2.

However given that you've felt the need to make this thread I'm going to say that it was probably 1-0 to Grimbsby.

I should also point you in the direction of the countless games of football that have happened in real life where a team has been completely on the back foot for 90 minutes and has come away with the win. Quite frankly if you look across the top 4 flights of English football you get one game a week where a team has been steamrollered all game but still taken home 3 points.

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Some good guesses here. @Svenc that's an incredibly detailed make-believe account of the game :D

It was, of course, 2-0 Grimsby. Ahh well it happens. Just had to be the first game of the new season to be a right kick in the teeth! Welcome to the conference, King's Lynn.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 2017-6-8 at 11:00, HawkAussie said:

How did you guess that so fast as it was 9-0 to the Wanderers which is a record for the league and the team.

20170607135348_1.thumb.jpg.87037e580a254d9c5201b3d58dfb77e5.jpg

 

Probably because the away team had an average rating of 8 which indicates a very high scoring line. ;)

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5 minutes ago, Skky said:

Man, have some mercy for Dutch football. I'm Dutch myself :p

All season my team have been creating lots of chances but not scoring goals. Often leading to terrible draws. They decided to wear their shooting boots for a match, it seems ;)

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On 26.6.2017 at 07:27, KlaaZ said:

 

Probably because the away team had an average rating of 8 which indicates a very high scoring line. ;)

Good spot. :D

 

I'd have a pack of three numbered in case anybody just wants to predict merely one... there was a purpose for posting multiple matches. Edited and added the scorelines and reasons into the spoiler tags below so to not leave anybody hanging. :)

Match 1:

kEHZ52m.jpg

 

 

LS2ctfz.jpg

Unfortunately, AI managers don't deal in makeshift backlines consisting of a wide full back and no protection in front of his. So yes, Concord was me. However, should SI ever want to stress test CCC / one on one conversion... or generally decision making in front of goals... everybody who vents about 40 shots no scoring should test this to get a feel for what decent chances really are ... and which aren't.

 

Match 2:

1m91CHr.jpg
 

 

coh2t5N.jpg

 


Leicester was me and City was an AI manager that went more stupidly aggressive which each goal conceded.

 



Match 3:

aRP6RG8.jpg
 

 

tv3U1Q7.jpg

Yes, those are full-match stats. We should be glad that AI isn't able to take that entire Tikinaccio crap to the next level after opening the scoring early on.




The general purpose:

 

This thread is good fun! However, be aware that the ME isn't quite 100% real football, and that we, to some extent even AI, can easily make sides play like no football team does, so real-world stat comparisons can be a bit tricky. Additionally, a few of those "key" stats are REALLY simplistic compared to what football analysis and actual managers use these days. Basic rule of the thumb, don't trust a stast page that shows little stats that give an indication of how ridiculously open anybody's back doors may be right there.

:D

Edited by Svenc
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  • 2 weeks later...

Um hoping to post a pic one day but im not good at it and ut takes time away from playing.  I recently went through a bad stretch of losing 4 games in a row as Monaco.  In the 4 games played i gave up a total of 21 shots with 6 on target and 4 goals scored with me losing all 4 games 1-0.  Im guessing bad luck or bad mechanics.

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Wilshere finds Drogba, how it ended up?

was it a goal? or GK becomes superman?

 

in the 2nd picture, Gradel finds Ibe in the other side and the Goal is almost clear, did it end up as a goal? or did Ibe pass it to the opposition GK for "safety"?

 

in the 3rd picture, the only threat the opposition had, while i understand that suppose to end up as a.... (i will let you guess), but what is francis doing?

marking of 14, concetration 12, positioning 14 and anticipation 15, wondering how a full back with such attribute cannot hold his player...and instead coming to the middle when he doesn't suppose to and while my CD are totaly useless at the middle.

in this particular scenario of the 3rd picture, francis suppose to mark gabiadinni (#20), and leave tadic (#11) to the central defender... which as you can see doesn't happen.

so let's see if you guys can guess how those ended up?

1111.jpg

22222.png

333.png

Edited by MHovel
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1-0 Southampton of course, as that wide ball not only results in a shot that changes direction instantly to go on target, making it an even bigger challenge if it's a first time shot rather than taking from the 2nd, 3rd, fourth touch (possibly involves bad defending for the winger to be unmarked, of course). Unlike the Drogba scenario it's also a ball played straight into the running path of the winger, whereas Drogba is facing the ball / player rather than the goal and either has to immediately turn and finish, or if he stops and shoots, has immediately all those defenders breathing down his neck plus the keeper possibly coming out to worsen the (centrally) angles too. Ok make that 2-0 from an own goal, as else that isn't a particular curious match from the stats, unless the scoreline would be 3-0. Naturally all of those could have resulted in a goal as far as you can say from still shots, but why else show those when the match went for Bournemouth? Perhaps it is 3-0? :D

 

As for this one, huge possession counts coupled with an above average corner count always looks suspicious (this is experience), and smells of a side pinned back all match but rarely stretched for set-piece-o-ramas (3/4 of those on target shots so-so headers etc. from a forward marked and under pressure, which I personally consider an ME weakness that it is so easy to amass those so "easily", btw), so probably no goals for Unterhaching, with the possibilty of Nürnberg winning it from an own goal probably helped a [tiny] bit by the frustration that would typically settle in upon wasting so many "quality" shots. :)

] EekdVwT.jpg

Edited by Svenc
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34 minutes ago, Marathon Dress Week said:

I love how people point out the once per season something like think happens IRL as a justification for it happening weekly in FM. 

1) FM isn't RL (for better and worse)
2) The managers typically competing in FM aren't real managers either (they wish they would be)
3) They seem however, too missing the point of threads completely

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9 hours ago, Marathon Dress Week said:

I love how people point out the once per season something like think happens IRL as a justification for it happening weekly in FM. 

Somewhere around 25% is how often it happens IRL.

So for an average week with 10 matches in the league you would expect the team with the worse stats winning two or three of them.

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1 minute ago, Marathon Dress Week said:

Where are you getting that figure from?

Its not just worse stats though is it. It's more often than not one side utterly steam rollering another.

Actually my post above needs slightly changing.

The team with the best stats fail to win approx 25% of matches so draws are included in that.

 

Go look at the Spanish League table when Barcelona were at the top of their game, despite steamrollering pretty much all the opposition they still failed to win approx 1 in 4 matches.

 

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48 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Go look at the Spanish League table when Barcelona were at the top of their game, despite steamrollering pretty much all the opposition they still failed to win approx 1 in 4 matches.

 

The topic of this thread was a light-hearted "guess the score" play of all kinds rather than "I have loads of shots but can't score" frustration dumps, which indeed, are a classic. But if we're here again... everybody who's ever consistently dropped points in extremely one-sided matches (on FMs simple stats level) has an interesting idea about "steamrollering" sides, long-term experience. Some of it may be his fault on the occasion (or at the very least, the game's stubborness to never teach his team sports basics 101). However, some of it is also ME related, and AI tactics. Consistently having huge stats and not scoring is typically down to barely creating space -- (the problem then is oft that it is still easy to get shots.. just mostly not very good ones). You should try some of the stuff that is shared, (and so should SI, as some of it could help to improve the ME/AI or at least understand // avoid player frustration). However, that's not the point of this thread, and any such is a flawed assumption, not only due to ME/AI. But also due to top class management typically managing space and play, rather than stats.

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@Maw74: Those possession stats are amazing! I think the widest margin I have ever seen in Football Manager is something like 54% vs. 46%. Even if I hammer a fourth-tier club 10-0.

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17 minutes ago, xzar_monty said:

@Maw74: Those possession stats are amazing! I think the widest margin I have ever seen in Football Manager is something like 54% vs. 46%. Even if I hammer a fourth-tier club 10-0.

Really? I have had many that have been like that and even bigger like this one > against Stoke which we lost lol.

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10 hours ago, Svenc said:

The topic of this thread was a light-hearted "guess the score" play of all kinds rather than "I have loads of shots but can't score" frustration dumps, which indeed, are a classic.

Not sure why you have quoted me there Sven, MDW implied it happened more often on FM than RL, I simply replied with how often you should expect it to happen compared to RL.

 

10 hours ago, Svenc said:

But if we're here again... everybody who's ever consistently dropped points in extremely one-sided matches (on FMs simple stats level) has an interesting idea about "steamrollering" sides, long-term experience. Some of it may be his fault on the occasion (or at the very least, the game's stubborness to never teach his team sports basics 101). However, some of it is also ME related, and AI tactics. Consistently having huge stats and not scoring is typically down to barely creating space -- (the problem then is oft that it is still easy to get shots.. just mostly not very good ones). You should try some of the stuff that is shared, (and so should SI, as some of it could help to improve the ME/AI or at least understand // avoid player frustration). However, that's not the point of this thread, and any such is a flawed assumption, not only due to ME/AI. But also due to top class management typically managing space and play, rather than stats.

You seem to be suggesting that I don't experience it or that it doesn't get me frustrated which is far from the truth.  You can see that simply by reading any of the career threads I've posted over the last ten years.

Maybe I'm a little more laid back, maybe I simply recognise how often I should expect it to happen, maybe I just don't feel the need to vent on the forum as much as others (Outside of career threads).  Just to take your link as an example the guy has had 52 shots in the match, 33 from distance.  My first thought wouldn't be the game has screwed me over, I'll go & complain on the forums.  It would be why the hell are my team having 52 shots and what can I do about.  In fact it wouldn't even get that far because I would have done something about it in match.  For perspective the last time I calculated my shot average over a season for a thread it came out at about 13 per match.

Anyway as you said this thread is meant to be light hearted so here are two pics from matches where I was the better team and deserved to win - I won one & lost one.

casQSDp.png

cuPLVGu.png

Spoiler

For those that want to know I won the Kotwica match 4-1 and lost the Sosnowiec match 1-0

 

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I really enjoy this thread, partly because it is a good place to dump matches that annoy you and have a relatively harmless moan about them (I could do that a lot in my current season, my team is currently the kings of switching off at the end of matches and conceding a stupid late equaliser), and partly because it highlights the thought process that different people experience when looking at such results.

In many of my matches in my current save (I am Inverness and I have just dominated the Scottish Championship), I have the better statistics in every department. However, I take much of that with a pinch of salt anyway when it comes to claiming I dominate. I tend to have a lot of shots anyway because a couple of my midfielders have above average stats for long shots, and score enough to make it worth while letting them go for it. This means a lot of shots from range (I hover around 50%), which means a lot of poor quality shots. Possession I seem to dominate naturally since I play a 4141 to the most frequently used 442, and that extra man naturally gives me a good outlet for recycling ball. I also do not care about possession, I care about what we do with the ball when we have it. 

I would only claim to have dominated a match when we have created a lot of excellent goal scoring chances, and we have really limited the opposition to very few shots in general, and no good chances. There does not have to be 30 shots for me to think this, I would rather have only had 5 shots, but they all be good chances. Likewise, possession is a meaningless statistic to quote. I started the season playing a high tempo direct football, and was winning 3 or 4 nil regularly whilst having around 45% of the ball. Most of the time when I feel I have dominated, and not won, it has just been my players having a brain fart of a day. Shots at the keeper, shots at the post, shots just wide. It happens, you just have to move on!

Still, like I said, I enjoy the thread, but it would be great if people can also take something from it, not just use it to vent!

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25 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Not sure why you have quoted me there Sven, MDW implied it happened more often on FM than RL, I simply replied with how often you should expect it to happen compared to RL.You seem to be suggesting that I don't experience it or that it doesn't get me frustrated which is far from the truth.  You can see that simply by reading any of the career threads I've posted over the last ten years.

  Reveal hidden contents

For those that want to know I won the Kotwica match 4-1 and lost the Sosnowiec match 1-0

 

It's totally worth to point that out, though it was off-topic, hence my response. The difference between you and quite a few players is that for them it IS happening regularly, in parts as so many download tactics suscribe to limited "football logics" whatsoever, the universally stuff that's been rewarded by this ever since (which is about creating and denying space), both when going forward or when the ball is dropped. Both in combination oft a toxic combination, in particular against opponents dropping deep. When somebody posts these "stats" to prove something, check for the corner counts for instance. In retropsect, going through a few FM 2014/2013 discussions, where the immediate reply was "happens in football", it is remarkable that nobody had ever picked up on corners piling up into the 30s whenever somebody posted such "stats", and that was just the corners, basically one "created" every 2nd minute the ball is in play ME or otherwise. Some average 15-20 corners on this in particular against opponents dropping deep, whilst in football teams as Barcelona average just 7! It's partly ME, but it's also related to tactics. In real football managers would adapt, well manage. On FM, that can be a very one-dimensional affair, with only the AI using some of the tools at the disposal. Cue in that short AI switch to 3 central forwards mid-match never reacted to by anybody.

Additionally, another thing worth pointing out is that in football (and to me, in the ME likewise despite the flaws) it's not the side with more shots more likely winning this, but those with the better ones. Not always, as that's not football, but FM's missing all of the latter parts of this.  It's easy to big time dominate the stats whilst largely creating nothing but a load of crap, and some of the most "obnoxious" posters on the "loads ofshots to no return" kind are still suffering on it despite they were explicitly told what their issue was.

@Maw74 3-2? Stopsley taking something from this is kinda given away by the match ratings (better to hide those). :-)

Edited by Svenc
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@Svenc

I'm not convinced the ME plays anything more than a minor role tbh.

AI/opposition tactics are a different matter but users should be recognising the issues and dealing with them during the match. 

As for user tactics likewise, if they are causing an issue users should be recognising that and dealing with it.  Different tactics employ different ideas and different styles.  Its only natural that some choices will lead more shots through natural means.  Its not the MEs or SIs job to then go and crowbar in some coding so the user doesn't become frustrated.  Poor choices should be punished in the same way that good choices are rewarded with a little luck/random added along the way.

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