FM17 - A Tactical Journey

[herne79]

I've been thinking for a little while about writing another tactical / strategy article, which I haven't really done since FM16.  I did do a club write up about West Ham earlier in the year, found in the Good Player & Team Guide forum, but that wasn't really about tactics.

At first I had thought of putting up an article about a 4-4-2 narrow diamond system I'd developed with West Ham, but I felt it was going to be a little formulaic.  Then I had an idea for something a little different - a journey man type of save, but focusing on tactical development as I get into each new club: how to start off and then evolve the tactical systems.

As an extra challenge, I'd also set a goal of not using the same formation at each club I end up at.  That should give some extra variety in showing my thought process, and hopefully not become too boring for anyone who reads it.

Arguably this thread should be in the FM Career Updates forum, but I'll be keeping it primarily focused on tactical development, along with some squad development and training info.

So, I'm starting this journey man save unemployed (although with fairly decent starting rep, I don't want to start at the very bottom) with leagues from Argentina, Brazil, England, Germany, Italy and Spain loaded.  We'll see where it takes me.

[herne79]

Two jobs were available to me at the start: Port Vale in League One, England; and Ceará Sporting Club in Campeonato Brasileiro Série B, Brazil.  Not a tough choice, so off to Brazil.

Ceará Sporting Club

Starting in July 2016, I join the club whilst lying 9th (out of 20) in Série B, 13 matches into the season.  A decent enough position and I'm only expected to avoid relegation.  I know nothing about the club or any of the players, so I need a starting point for tactical development.  The Team Report > Comparison is my first port of call:

Attribute Comparison

That's pretty good, I'm happy with that.  Technical and Mental attributes are all well above average, and Physicals are decent as well.  It's not shown above (I can't link everything ) but the team is actually well below the average height for the league, so a long ball game is out.  I'm already thinking a relatively short passing game could be in order to compliment the teams' technical ability, maybe with some zippy passing.

Player Comparison

Here you can see the relative strengths of my attacking, midfield and defensive players.  Defence seems a little meh, although marking and positioning are good.  This has started me thinking that I don't want my defence too aggressive - their strength lies in intelligent play, not aggressive tackling.  Defence is probably the first area to improve when the transfer window comes around.

Midfield and Attack on the other hand shape up pretty well.  Above average in all categories, with Anticipation, Off the Ball and Finishing of particular note.  If I have a decent Advanced Playmaker type, perhaps I can make good use of that Anticipation and Off the Ball running (think Risky Passes / Through Balls...)

Squad Depth

Still within the Team Report option, this is the Squad Depth tab.  For whatever reason, the formation for Ceará defaults to the 4-4-2 narrow diamond shown here.  Note there is a drop down box at the top where you can select any formation.  At this stage, I don't yet know which formation I am going to plump for, although given my comparative weakness in Defence, I'm thinking of using a player in the DMC position.  

What I need to do now is look at my strikers and wide players in more depth.  I know my Midfield is strong, but how many good attacking players do I have?  It's kinda pointless going for a 2 striker system if I only have one good striker, so that's my thought process.  As a comparison, here's how the squad looks in a 4-2-3-1 line up:

At first glance, it seems ok, but take a closer look at the AML players.  Biancucchi is actually the strongest AMR player, and the loanee Tontini is listed under AML/C and R (and looking at his profile he isn't that good).  That's going to leave me with a problem if I use any formation that requires someone at AML - if Ricardinho gets injured (or tired), I run short of options very quickly.  It's also worth noting my lack of cover at left back, so immediately I start to picture a big weakness down my left flank.

If I don't have much in the way of left sided players, perhaps the "wingerless" formation the Squad Depth screen defaulted to (see above) is a good idea after all.  However, before I make any decisions I'll have a ferret around in the Reserves squad and go through the First Team with a fine tooth comb to make sure I'm not missing out on any hidden gems.

More to follow...

[herne79]

On closer inspection, my worst fears about a left back have been realised.  There is only one natural left back at the club, not even one in the Reserves or the Under 20s.  Ouch.

As I also only have 4 central defenders ready for first team action (one of which is a loanee), ditching fullbacks in favour of 3 central defenders is not an option - not enough strength in depth.  There is however one right back who "can" play at left back, and I'm always quite willing to shoe horn players into unfamiliar positions if they look like they have the capability of doing a job, so I'll make do.

This is an overview of the first team squad sorted by ability (star rating):

And then their technical skills (sorted by passing ability):

What I'm looking for here are attacking midfielders, and thus how many I could deploy in my system.  I have one excellent AMC - Felipe Menezes - who looks like a deadly passer, but nobody else at AMC of a similar standard.  So playing 2 x AMC is out.  There are however some very good central and defensive midfielders which is great given my aforementioned thoughts on having good DMC cover for my rather lacklustre defence.  Overall, it looks like either a 4-1-3-2, a 4-4-2 narrow diamond or a 4-2-2-2 DM Box formation.

The Box is a tempter, especially as I'm in Brazil, but I do like the idea of Menezes as my fantasista at AMC, even though he is perfectly capable of playing in the central midfield position.  If I play him at AMC I have cover for him, but if he's positioned at MC, it's not quite so straight forward.  So 4-4-2 narrow diamond it is.

Bit of a long winded way of doing what the game suggested in the first place no?   

Some of the roles you see here are experimental at this stage.  I need to see how they play out during matches, so I'm starting with very neutral tactical settings - Standard mentality; Flexible team shape; and no team instructions.  We probably can get away with some more technical tactical settings as I mentioned above, but for now I need to get to know my team and get a feel for what we are capable of.  Keeping things very simple, at least to begin with, can be an ideal way of doing this.

Oh and my only natural left back at the club is currently suspended.  What a douche.

[Armistice]

Great stuff so far, will keep checking for updates as I am sure you will do more.

[Fosse]

Finally Herne returns!

[herne79]

First Four Matches:

A good start.

I'll start by saying that I changed nothing at all tactically during the first 3 of those matches, and then only one slight change (one role change) in the second half of the fourth match when it was still 0-0.

Now I'm blatantly ripping off Cleon here.  He used to talk long and loud about not changing anything for your first few matches so that you can get an idea of how your system works against different opposition, which is precisely what I've been doing.  And I have to say I like what I've been seeing - we've actually been playing in a quite technical manner:  good possession; nice passing; a variety in attacking play; defensively solid; good pressing high up the pitch; and players doing what they should be doing.  Have a look at these post match stats from the away game vs Londrina (who are 8th in the league compared to my current 6th):

Those results are typical of the matches I've been seeing (Londrina used a 4-1-2-3DM formation).  Here's the same screen from the 3-0 away win at Regatas (who used a 4-2-2-2 box formation and 3rd in the league):

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that if your core tactical system is sound, you can achieve good results without needing to resort to lots of fancy tactical instructions.  I said in one of the above posts about using my players' good technical attributes by perhaps creating a short and zippy passing style.  Well I've pretty much got that already because the players are doing it all by themselves.  And this is they key point - sure sometimes you need to tell your players to play with a certain style, but unless you've kept things simple and properly looked at your players' capabilities, all you may need to do is give them a basic framework.

Anyway, the small change I made in match 4 at half time was to amend my Poacher to an Advanced Forward.  Poachers can be a little tricky to get right, as they need proper feeding which isn't always possible when playing against packed defensive midfields.  The Advanced Forward can help to create a little more space in that crucial area by pushing against defenders rather than playing on the shoulder as Poachers do.  Coincidence or not, the AF scored 5 mins into the 2nd half and we ended up winning 2-0.  It was a subtle change, but we'd so dominated the first half there really wasn't a need for anything major.  This is the goal:

Following a long kick from the opposition keeper (collected by Muntuan), Lucas has nicked the ball off Muntuan.  Bragantino's back line is still advancing because they think they are in possession.  My AF (Ricardinho) has stayed high up the pitch, pressuring the back line, and Lucas plays a nice ball over the top which Ricardinho latches onto and scores.

So a great start but still a long way to go.  The tactical system won't change now - I'll be starting every match without any changes - but if I have matches where different changes are needed I'll post more analysis.

[Torskus77]

Really looking forward to following this thread progress. I have really enjoyed your previous tactical threads, and took great inspiration from them ( I still do now) I need it too, cos out of all the FM's I have played, I have struggled more with FM17 than any previous versions, for whatever reason. 

Very interested in following two roles in particular that you are using, that I have used this time around, that I had never really used before.  I had actually done similar to you and changed to advanced forward at times, the AF tends to drift out wide a little more, and as you mentioned create space. The BWM is a brilliant role that I have took to a lot, but so many bookings and sendings off has knocked the edge off a little for me. Anyway it's not about me, will definitely enjoy this thread, good luck. 

[herne79]

@Torskus77 cheers.

The BWM is one of my favourite roles, but it can be tricky in either the wrong set up or with the wrong player.  Get it right and he shouldn't pick up any more bookings than anyone else.  The things I look for in a BWM are: good amounts of Aggression (to compliment the active nature of the role), Tackling and Determination; low Dirtiness; and avoid the trait Dives into Tackles.

Because I have a relatively weak defence, here I'm using him as a destroyer to break up play (or at least disrupt it) before opponents get into my defence.

[Torskus77]

Yeah, I think I have picked up the right kind of players.  Similar to what you mentioned. I managed to get Kranevitter in the summer gone, which was a massive coo for my club, who looks to be on paper a world class BWM. He has the "does not dive in to tackles" Trait too, but oddly has had 2 red cards and has been yellowed virtually every game so far. Worse than the player I had been using who is more aggressive and has dive in to tackles trait. Guess it could be sample size , only 12 games in to the season. Have fined him two weeks wages and warned him, hope he calms down, spent most of my budget on him , looking for a bit of class in midfield.  I know what is going on around him matters too, if he is forced to make last ditch tackles etc, I have an eye on this, he just seems obsessed with hacking players down at the moment. I love the role though, it covers a lot of holes, I am  hopeful it will work out in the end. 

[herne79]

@Torskus77 Kranevitter was my favourite player in FM16, but I haven't used him at all this year - but only because I didn't want to keep using the same old faces.  Hope they haven't changed his attributes.

[Torskus77]

Still looks solid mate, playing the role as I'd like, just needs to calm down a little. 

[herne79]

I thought it might be useful to do a quick overview of why I picked the roles and duties as detailed in the formation linked above.  This is something I found a little while ago, and is pretty much my basic starting point for tactics these days:

It's a very simple thing but it conveys a lot of good ideas.  So moving onto my system:

Goalkeeper - Sweeper Keeper (defend).  Regardless of whether Sweeper Keepers actually do what we think a Sweeper Keeper should do or not (they don't really), they'll still behave like a goalkeeper anyway so there's no real downside to using one over a regular 'keeper (shamelessly ripped from @Jambo98 ).  Who knows, perhaps once in a blue moon he will actually step up and make a tackle/interception behind the defensive line, in which case the choice was worthwhile.

Fullbacks - both Fullback (attack).  "Attacking fullbacks", according to the checklist above.  So "tick".  These guys are my only regular width, both offensively and defensively, so need to be sound in these two areas.  Why not Wingbacks?  There isn't really a huge amount of difference, although Fullbacks tend to be a little more defence minded.  Given that my defence is my weakest area (see post above) this is a sound choice.  Wingbacks on support could have been an option, although they'll be more midfield support minded rather than actively getting up into dangerous areas.  Take a look at this video to see what I mean: both fullbacks are heavily involved in the build up play all along the length of the pitch (they have their names highlighted - Romario and Tiago).  The video actually shows quite a lot of interesting things, but try to only watch the fullbacks for now.  (Note I have given my FBs a PI of Less Risky Passes - they're not Pirlo and should only cross when necessary).

Defensive Midfield - Ball winning Midfielder (defend).  The "Tough Anchor".  I want someone here actively breaking up play, hounding the opposition and doing what they can to protect my defence.  As it is an active role, I don't want someone with passive attributes.  Attributes need to compliment the role - any role - so I value Aggression here.  Luckily Ceará have a couple of players like that and with my slightly shaky defence they should break up play nicely before laying the ball off short to a team mate.  No fancy passing here thank you very much.  By the way, don't confuse Aggression with dirty play, that's two different things.  Aggression helps a player get stuck into the action, actively taking part, rather than sitting back and waiting for something to happen.  Take a look at this short clip of my BWM (Richardson) to see what I mean - watch how he tracks the runner, allowing the two central defenders to hold shape and not commit themselves:

Central Midfield - both Central Midfielders (support).  These guys need to be the jack-of-all-trades: helping out in defence; shuttling up and down the pitch; supporting the attack.  So why not at least one Box to Box Midfielder?  Good question, to which I would answer why have one?  A BBM can absolutely serve a purpose and even has different coding, but unless you know you need to have one (or two), why go straight into choosing one?  Starting with a Central Midfielder starts you off with a relatively simplistic role which is highly customisable (I have mine set to Close Down More).  Also remember that a BBM has Roam From Position as a default PI which for this system at least I want to discourage.  So long as these players are getting up and down the pitch, helping the attack and covering defensively, that's all I'm looking for.  Take a look at this video - it's actually the same as the first video above, but this time watch it from the perspective of the two (highlighted) central midfielders, Marcos and Caucaia.  Watch how they start deep in their own half, help to bring the ball out with some nice passing and ultimately support the attack.

Attacking Midfield - Trequartista.  My "Fantasista" (I am in Brazil after all ).  My main man, my star player.  But I don't just want him being a passing machine (such as an Advanced Playmaker).  I also want him being a goal threat.  Now, this role more than any other I intend to keep a little fluid.  From previous experience this role can get caught out by defenders and made ineffectual (not often, but it can sometimes).  Changing the role to Enganche or even moving the player back to central midfield as an attacking midfielder (with suitable PIs) can alleviate any issues.  Again, just subtle changes which can have huge impacts.

Strikers - Complete Forward (support) + Advanced Forward (or Poacher).  This is my preferred striker combination, although for now can't be set in stone as the team are bloated with small, light weight, technical "strikers".  Luckily I do have one who has some strength and physical presence, so he gets the CF(s) place.  With two strikers, I like variety - one who can battle with defenders, hold the ball up and make lay offs (and score of course), with the other able to make darting runs and get on the end of through balls.  The following is a fast break away goal involving all 3 front players (Menezes is the TQ, Costa the CF and Biancucchi the AF).  Note how I've left one forward up the pitch during the opposition free kick, with my passer (the TQ) on the edge of the box.  Also interesting to see the right fullback get in on the action at the end, before the CF makes the final pass for the TQ to score.

Hopefully you've found the videos interesting.  I haven't really done much with video before but I think it conveys situations better than trying to interpret still screen shots.

[herne79]

Team roles and duties now completed in the post above, with some additional video .

[Armistice]

Looks good, it seems like you know exactly what you want to do with your system.

[herne79]

The following is a video of a full match I recently played away vs Tupi, from pre-match team talk through to post-match team talk.

We're several games into the season now.  I've become familiar with my players and what I can expect of them, so this match is played on key highlights.  There's no commentary, but I'll run you through my thought process of how I approached the match at each stage.  If it helps, pause the video at relevant points.

Pre-match -  we've been playing well and on a good winning streak.  We might be playing away, but Tupi are below us in the league and we're the pre-match favourites.  So I tell the players that.

Video time 0:18 (match time 1:00) - in between highlights, this is how I set my screen up.  The opposition formation is there so I can quickly see if they change things.  My player condition and ratings take centre stage so I can keep an eye on their performance.  Whilst in some instances player rating calculations can leave a little to be desired, it still gives a decent overview especially now I know my players and tactical system.  Over on the right is a match overview, which just gives me a feel for the match progress.

0:21 (5:14) - the first major highlight.  Overall I like my team's play.  We're passing the ball well, going backwards to retain possession when under pressure, fullbacks are providing great passing options out wide, my DMC is nicely positioned to pick the ball back up and recycle when Tupi clear, and we score a decent goal.  I'm a happy manager.

1:07 (11:44) - good play from us here again, and we're unlucky not to score.  However, the Match Stats in the bottom left are starting to concern me.  Tupi have matched me for shots and possession, plus they've had 4 corners.  There's an attacking threat there I need to keep an eye on.  At the end of this highlight (11:57) what their keeper does bugs me, which I'll come back to later.

1:25 (19:57) - we score from a corner.  Tupi haven't had any more shots or corners and their possession has dropped which I'm more comfortable with now.  However, the end of the previous highlight is still bugging me, so I pause the action after our goal and rewind the play back to 11:44.  I want to see what Tupi have done with the ball...

1:39 (12:00) - their 'keeper rolls the ball to a defender, but my front 3 are well positioned, blocking off passing options and pressing high.  All they can do is clear it long and we win the ball back.  That's good, I like the high press and positioning and was interested to see what was going on, hence the rewind.

2:21 (46:21) - the ref blows for half time.  The match stats are still well in my favour, and Tupi can't get their shots on target.  My players all have decent ratings, except my AF (Maxi).

2:22 - Half time team talk and analysis.  We're 2-0 up but the AI is perfectly capable of changing things up in the 2nd half, so I tell my players not to get complacent, which motivates them.  I also take a look at the shots.  My AF (#10) has only had one decent shot which was saved, which probably goes some way to explaining his low rating.  Strikers can have off days, it happens.  I also take a look at Tupi's shots (2:36) - it's ok but I'm a little concerned they're getting too many away.  Something to keep a very close eye on.

2:52 (57:41) - Now I am concerned and need some action.  Tupi have upped their game and are getting more shots, and on target as well, whilst we haven't had a single shot.  Tupi hit the post and I make my first changes - mentality shifts to Counter (for less risk taking) and Team Shape I amend to Fluid (which should help them play as a more compact team unit and give them some extra creative freedom for attacks).  I probably made a mistake here by not watching some actual action after the restart which may have led me to making the change sooner.

3:25 (60:10) - I make my first substitution.  My AF isn't playing well so I take him off and alter his replacement's role to Poacher due to his attributes and to give a slightly different way of attacking.

3:44 (64:38) - Nice build up play from us which leads to our penalty and third goal.  We've also stopped the rot on Tupi getting shots in.

4:32 (67:18) - Decent passing from us again, but we ultimately lose the ball on the right wing with my left back being caught too high up the pitch.  Pause the video at 5:11, I'm not happy with my defensive positioning at all:  we're back pedalling, caught flat footed and I don't like where the defensive line is.  My keeper comes to the rescue but we rode our luck there.  I push my def line a little higher to compress space a bit (5:20).  i also make my final substitution - a fresh BWM at DMC.

06:26 (90:00) - Tupi didn't have another shot after that final change and we saw the game out for a 3-0 win.  3-0 sounds good but it wasn't a comfortable win at all.  However, post match I told the players it was a good win for us and well done (anything else would have just annoyed them, which is a bit of a limitation).

 

[herne79]

Season 2

The good news is we got promoted to Série A.  Yay go me.

The bad news is I have very little money to strengthen the squad.

I can't afford to improve my first eleven, but I can afford to get in some exciting young prospects to bolster the squad.  And here's something I didn't realise about starting a save in Brazil - there are 18 year old newgens in the game at the start, and some of those newgens are going to be world class.  And here's the really amazing part: one is already at my club and others can be bought dirt cheap.  I spent £200k on three 18 year old newgens in January 2017, all of which are good enough to slot straight into the first team, will get plenty of game time and are rapidly developing.

Anyway, the relative strength of my squad is leaving me in a bit of a pickle.  From one of my posts above we already know my defence is a bit shaky and if I look again at my Team Comparison reports now that I am in Série A (which I pictured above when in Série B) I am way below average in pretty much every single category.  I'll be happy if I can avoid relegation (and so will my Board).

Perhaps I should react to that now by altering my tactical system to, say, a less risky set up to try to compensate.

But I'm not going to do that, that isn't how I play the game.  I start each match the exact same way and adjust during matches if needed.  If I don't know before the match starts how my opponent is going to play, if I made adjustments I could be ruining a perfectly good system.  Also, part of the fun for me at present managing in Brazil is that I have no clue at all about my competition.  So if I am about to play Sport Recife for example, I have no idea of how strong they are apart from some rather dodgy scout reports.  And because I have a somewhat simple and neutral tactical system it's easy to see how matches progress and thus make changes as things develop if needed.

Arguably not very realistic perhaps, but as someone much greater than me once said, "I'm paid to win football matches" .

Lets look at a live example.  Below is a video of my match away at Sao Paulo.  I have no idea whether Sao Paulo are championship contenders, relegation candidates or somewhere in between.  I'm only 2 matches into the season as well, so the table doesn't give me any clues either (they've actually won one and lost one).  So how am I going to approach this?  Well, I'm going to rip off Cleon and follow his process - I'll watch the first 10 mins or so of the match, and adjust things from there if I need to.

The video below is 12 mins long and could get a bit boring, especially without any in match commentary.  However, if you can stick it out, you'll see:

-  Starting from the formation screen so I get an idea of the formation Sao Paulo are playing.

-  The pre-match team talk does not say anything about my team being underdogs (phew).

-  The first minute or two we play quite well, but then Sao Paulo start to totally dominate us and we can hardly get out of our own half.  We have little possession, and what possession we do have tends to be deep inside our own half and clearing the ball long (which gives the ball straight back to Sao Paulo).

-  While I'm watching the action I have a clear screen, no widgets visible to distract me.

-  After a couple of minutes I highlight my fullbacks and DMC so I can keep track of them better.  They're key players.

-  In the ninth minute of the match I make one change to my tactic, and make no further changes during the match (apart from subs).

-  The biggest thing that sticks out to me during those 9 mins is my lack of pressure on the ball.  The opposition are running rings around us, my midfield are like headless chickens and I have no control at all.  All I do is tell my players to close down more.  This should apply a little extra pressure on the ball, and thus help to reduce the control Sao Paulo have over us at present.  Check out the possession figures when I put the Match Stats widget back up.

-  One other thing.  Keep an eye on the opposition formation widget (top left) once I put it back up, and note how I don't make instant changes when the opposition does.

(The following spoiler contains info that gives away the result, so if you don't want to know don't read until after you've watched the video).

Spoiler

I'll mention my Trequartista here (Felipe Menezes), who ended up having a great game.  Watch how he is fully involved in all 3 of our goals and his movement looking for space.  This is exactly the kind of play I want from this role.

Also, if you can, note the Match Stats widget (bottom right) after I switch to key highlights and watch how it changes to become much more in my favour.

Changing just the team Closing Down setting is only a very minor change, but hopefully you can see just how much of an impact it had.

 

[jc577]

You make the game look so simple! Great Work 

[herne79]

3 hours ago, jc577 said:

You make the game look so simple! Great Work 

Thanks.

The trouble is that's both a good and a bad thing.  Yes the game can be played in a relatively simple manner, but what I'm in danger of doing is giving people a false impression of how simple it might be to actually do that (which I want to avoid).

Yes at it's core it just involves watching a game of football, which really shouldn't be hard.  But understanding what you're seeing and then making the right choices to get yourself a positive outcome is where the challenge is - and is a regular message I see on this forum.  I've never really put up videos before, and the reason I've started now is to try to help people with that challenge.

I've made mistakes along the way, I still do (occasionally ), so to adapt during a match comes from experience, trial and error.  But ultimately knowing your team and how your system is (supposed) to work is the starting point.

Perhaps I should put up a video of where I do cock it up and the lessons I learn from it.

[Thyra13]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Perhaps I should put up a video of where I do cock it up and the lessons I learn from it.

That would be amazing actually 

[Armistice]

It's amazing how you make the game seem so easy to play, as someone said before. I wish I could get at least half of your knowledge and results you're getting now.

Keep it up.

[herne79]

Overnight I had a PM from someone who liked what I'm doing here (thanks) but would find it more helpful if I could explain my thought process better in terms of the choices I make and why I make them when playing out matches.

Fair enough, I'll be more descriptive .

One thing I'll add - don't just try to copy me.  There is no substitute for trying things out, making your own mistakes and learning from them.

And speaking of mistakes, the next video is my away match vs Flamengo where I make mistakes and end up drawing 2-2 from a 1-0 winning position at half time.  It's a match I feel I should have won, but I messed up and eventually managed to salvage draw after going 2-1 behind.  I'll also try to think through what I should perhaps have done differently to win the match.

So onto the match.  Again, I start from the beginning and watch the first 10 mins or so.

We start off ok, but one thing that catches my eye is the space their striker and AMC (note their formation) seem to be finding in front of my defence.  Here's a still timed at 2:47 match time (1:52 video) (Berrio in space):

And again at 5:30 (3:35) where both their AMC and striker find space between my highlighted back line and DMC:

If I carry on conceding space like this, they'll score.  At 7:30 (4:51) I've seen enough and I alter the defensive line to try to limit this space.

What else could I have done?  I could have told my central defenders to mark tighter, but that would pull them out of shape and that's never a good thing for central defenders, especially against quality opposition.  I could have altered Team Shape and/or Mentality, but that would impact much more than just my defensive line, so why take a sledgehammer to crack a nut.  So I decide to just change my def line and see how it plays out.

When the next "key highlight" starts at 26:22 (6:57), my match stats are not looking good and I'm contemplating more changes.  While I'm contemplating what to change, at 26:50 (7:19) my central defender Valdo (passing 10, vision 5) takes matters into his own hands, hits a 60 yard pass to my striker that even Pirlo would rarely see, and we score with our first shot of the match.  oh FM, you so silly.  I actually laughed.

I could have carried on with a change, but I decided not to.  We're now 1-0 up, my players have probably had some pressure lifted, so just let them carry on.  And that's the score at half time.

At this point, I take a look at Flamengo's shots and they're all pretty decent efforts - mostly inside the area and forcing saves.  I also expect the AI manager to change things up in the second half - they're at home, they're the better team and they're losing.  However I won't change anything until I see if I'm right.

So the second half starts (video time 8:15) and immediately I see they have changed to an aggressive flat 4-3-3 formation and I make my first mistake.  All I change is Team Shape to Fluid.  My thinking here was to enhance the "team" mentality, constrict the vertical space a little and get my fullbacks working harder to try to catch the opposition fullbacks out of position.

With hindsight I think leaving Team Shape alone and dropping just mentality to Counter (or perhaps combined with the Team Shape change) may have been a better choice - less risky play and possibly better able to take advantage of the space the opposition are now bound to be leaving.  But I didn't and as the match continues we actually get in some shots while they don't have any - which lulls me into a false sense of security (my second mistake).

Before I know it, I've conceded two goals and the match is slipping away.  There's only 15 mins or so left to play and I decide I have nothing to lose (newly promoted Ceará away at the mighty Flamengo, I mean come on) so I switch to Overload / Very Fluid.  I believe my formation can take that sort of aggression (3 players high up the pitch, plenty of support from what would now become a quite attacking midfield and with bombing fullbacks), so I have at it.  Flamengo also change back to their starting formation of 4-2DM-3-1.

We equalise in the 82nd minute after Flamengo have again changed formation to a defensive box.  I eventually substitute both my fullbacks to bring on fresh legs, but I left it too late and should probably have brought them on sooner.

So the match ended 2-2 and overall I can't be disappointed with a draw away at Flamengo, but I made some mistakes and view it as 2 points lost rather than a point gained.

 

[nextqprmanager]

herne79, fantastic post, lots I need to learn.

I must admit, I would have picked Magno Alves as ST & Joao Marcos as CM [ instead of Lucas ].

Also, why don`t you change to counter when winning vs a bigger team?, sorry with the questions, but do you find altering your mentality depending upon who you are playing works?, eg. Counter for me [ QPR ] vs top 10-12 teams works generally, but not so much vs bottom 6?. 

Do you think starting with basic tactics would work in Prem?

ps. I notice you don`t use shouts?. Thx & GL

[herne79]

17 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

I must admit, I would have picked Magno Alves as ST & Joao Marcos as CM [ instead of Lucas ].

Alves is decent but now lacks the physicals (he's 40) - lacks pace for a Poacher / AF and lacks strength for the CF role.  Marcos plays regularly and is rotated.  Good knowledge .

19 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

Also, why don`t you change to counter when winning vs a bigger team?,

Have a read of the post above where I describe my game vs Flamengo.

19 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

sorry with the questions, but do you find altering your mentality depending upon who you are playing works?, eg. Counter for me [ QPR ] vs top 10-12 teams works generally, but not so much vs bottom 6?. 

It can absolutely work, I've done it myself before.  I now choose to play in a different manner, by starting each match in the same way, but that's personal choice.  I'm not for a moment trying to say one way is better than the other, it's simply the way I play.

22 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

Do you think starting with basic tactics would work in Prem?

Yup.  The tactical system I use here isn't too different from a West Ham save I have, or even with Real Madrid (CR7 as a Poacher is just insane).

23 minutes ago, nextqprmanager said:

ps. I notice you don`t use shouts?.

For this particular system no I don't.  Check my 3rd post for more on that.  I will however use the odd shout here and there during matches if I see a need but it'll just be small adjustments, nothing major.  When I move on to my next club I'll be creating a new system (part of my challenge), so I may add in some shouts there to create a certain style.

[herne79]

Vasco da Gama vs Ceará.

I expected this tie to be tricky, and so it proved.  For context, VdG and ourselves were promoted together last season with VdG as run away champions.  After a dozen or so matches this season, Vasco are bottom while we are comfortably in the top half and our last game was a 6-0 home win in which I didn't change anything tactically.

So why am I expecting this tie to be tricky?  We're the in-form team after all.  Well because I don't really feel we're yet far enough into the season for relative form and reputation to start making much of a difference.  I could be wrong, but that's my gut feel.  That being the case, I think VdG will be viewing me as a similar team - not one they'll necessarily attack outright, but not shrinking violets either.  And these can be the trickiest opponents - they're not attacking me and thus gifting me space to attack or counter into, but neither are they sitting back trying to defend and nick a goal.

Anyway, that's my prediction.  As usual I don't change anything before the match, but I'm watching the start like a hawk.  Lets see what happened (video below the write up):

Formations: VdG have a 4231 and what appears to be a fairly attacking left flank.  Compare the relative positions to my players - possibly a support duty striker and AMC; left winger probably attack duty (higher up the pitch than the right wing); a solid looking midfield (one support and one defend duty - possibly even two defend duty players); and probably an attack duty wingback on the left (compare to my attack duty fullbacks).  If only two attack duty players I'm expecting not much risk taking from the AI (probably standard mentality as the AI tends to link mentality with number of attack duty players).  Nothing for me to warrant a change at present, just my initial read of things.  Could be wrong.

Pre-match talk: we've just won 6-0.  Carry straight on from the last match.

Video time 1:10 (match time 2:20): VdG play the ball out to their left back César.  Remember what I said about their left back possibly being an attacking wingback?  Over the next 30 seconds or so, watch how much of the ball he sees and where he is on the pitch.  My right back is not having a good time.

After this, the game settles down some.  Both teams seem fairly evenly matched, I'm not noticing much in the way of pressing from VdG, but they seem quite solid defensively.  We're passing the ball around nicely but without much penetration.

4:12 (7:11): I make my first changes.  I'm concerned by my lack of penetration and their wingers.  I need to be better in the final third and be a little more structured defensively.  We're a compact team and I think space is an issue.  I make 2 changes: shift Team Shape to Structured to create some additional vertical space and help my players focus a little more on their duties; and I increase width a notch to help free up space, especially in the midfield.

What else could I have done?  Changing mentality was a consideration but I'm happy with the risk being taken - if I go more aggressive I'll be playing more directly into an organised defence, and if I go more passive I may invite too much pressure and be even narrower in attack than I already am.  Effectively using space is my prime concern here and I don't think changing mentality is going to help me.

I also dismiss additional pressing either using the TI or as part of increasing mentality.  With their 4231, who am I going press?  My BWM at DMC is already aggressive, so my central defenders?  Dangerous.  My two fullbacks?  Might be ok against their wingers but what if they skip past the press?  Or use an aggressive wingback to double team me?  I need more structure, not players being pulled out of shape.

I make the change and continue watching the action for the next couple of minutes to make sure I'm happy (note the changes don't actually take effect until 5:36 video time).

6:50 (27:45): We seem to be edging the match stats although both teams aren't getting many shots in.  Possession is good but we need to start turning that into something useful.  And luckily my midfield and strikers oblige with a very well worked goal through the middle.  Notice how many CFs (Costa) comes deep and pulls a central defender with him, allowing my AF (Maxi) to make a dangerous run in behind before picking out my TQ (Menezes) running into the box.  I like how the space was used here which reassures me that I made the right tactical decisions above.

7:38 (36:04): I get caught up field and hit with a fast counter.  1-1.  Good goal, not much that can be done about that (unless it's happening regularly) so I don't change anything.  We almost score straight from the restart as well, so again no need for change.

8:44 (40:19):  I like what my right back does here.  Rather than getting involved in an aggressive press against the advancing opposition winger and fullback, he back peddles, holding defensive shape.  My midfield helps cover and this forces the opposition to pass inside where my BWM makes the tackle.  And now it's our turn to counter while their left back is out of position, ending in a nice goal.

9:36 (half time): I tell the team well done but there's room for improvement.  We're doing ok and I have a quick look at the shots.  They've only had 3 shots from inside our box which I'm fine with, while we've had 6 from inside theirs.  From the restart I notice VdG have dropped their two central midfielders to DM and their front 4 now look more aggressive.  A bit of an odd move, but I reckon they may have upped their mentality and so will be playing a more directly (they'll have to if they're going to pass the ball through that huge midfield gap).  I'm ok with that as it should open a little more space for me to use.

10:13 (55:57): I'm actually about to change my formation at this point by bringing my AMC down to the MC line to give him some additional space and help to dominate the midfield when a highlight pops up resulting in our 3rd goal.  VdG have been getting more shots in (as have we) which backs up my feeling of them taking more risks from using a higher mentality (they still only have 4 shots on target, so probably still taking long shots).  Anyway, we get another nicely worked goal.

10:56 (57:23): Another key highlight from kick off after a goal.  How unusual....  And VdG score (credited as an own goal).  *sigh*.  That sort of thing doesn't happen quite as often as it used to but still a little too often I feel.

11:50 (68:06): One of my defenders is having a bad day so I sub him off and I switch mentality to counter.  Arguably I should have made the mentality switch earlier.  It's a very aggressive front 4 from VdG and a counter mentality may have helped me keep a better defensive shape by taking less risks.  I also increase the defensive line slightly higher - a counter mentality has a deep def line by default, and a DMC pushes it lower still.  VdG are getting shots away and I don't really want them getting closer to my goal.

12:54 (89:16): I add on Retain Possession.  I just want to see the match out now.

13:12 (92:29): The recording seems to have missed the final 30 seconds of the match.  Nothing else happened and the final score was a 3-2 win for us.

I particularly wanted to show this match as it was a really tough win against the bottom side, which came off the back of our 6-0 win and good run of form.  That match could easily have been a loss.  How's that possible given our form and recent record?  I've seen plenty of comments on this forum asking that question and my answer to that is:

- Understand what's gone on before and why you have had a good run.

- Understand the context of the match you are playing in.

- Every team is different and they'll play in a different manner against you.

- Adapt in game if you need to.  Sometimes you need to grind out a result - and sometimes against surprising opposition.

I enjoyed that match, it made me think quite a lot.

 

[nextqprmanager]

herne79, welcome back, I enjoyed it as well. I think alot of players` would go attacking , very fluid, crush the bottom team ; but as IRL they are fighting for their lives.

I must admit I am comtemplating going Standard, Flexible / structured with no instructions! to start with next season [ maybe in friendlies first ] , just need the courage !

Got to sort out my squad depth  first I guess? [ lowest in Prem for most things! ]

GL

[herne79]

Ceará has run it's course (for now) and time to move on.  Managing in Brazil has been a great experience and I'd recommend everyone to try it (I'm actually going to keep the save and carry on with it in my own time).

It's 3rd January, so straight into a transfer window.  This is my next destination, with the club currently in 15th position in the Bundesliga.  I'll post my tactical analysis shortly.

[jc577]

How shortly? I need my late night fix 

[Fosse]

You're not a purist are you Herne? 

First you wiped away West Ham for Thames Ironworks and now you're managing Hoffenheim a plastic village club!

[herne79]

9 minutes ago, jc577 said:

How shortly? I need my late night fix 

For "shortly" read "tomorrow-ish" .

3 minutes ago, Fosse said:

You're not a purist are you Herne? 

First you wiped away West Ham for Thames Ironworks and now you're managing Hoffenheim a plastic village club!

I'm not proud, so long as they pay me I'll manage anyone.  

(Except Spurs).

[brigzi]

14 minutes ago, Fosse said:

You're not a purist are you Herne? 

First you wiped away West Ham for Thames Ironworks and now you're managing Hoffenheim a plastic village club!

he could of gone for RB Leipzig so hoffenheim isnt so bad ha

[Bjick]

Looking forward to the next chapter in this tactical journey! Good luck in Deutschland

[Armistice]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

(Except Spurs).

So you'd manage Millwall?

[Fosse]

11 hours ago, brigzi said:

he could of gone for RB Leipzig so hoffenheim isnt so bad ha

Yeah true,

it actually winds me up a bit so many people manage Leipzig on FM which is sad 

[brigzi]

4 hours ago, nightwalker22 said:

So you'd manage Millwall?

i can agree with him, id manage anyone but spurs. legit hate them

[herne79]

So, onto Hoffenheim.

Things I know:

- We're 4th from bottom of the Bundesliga (ie., 15th) at the beginning of January, during the mid-season break.

- I have up to £16m to spend, but that leaves me with no wage budget available.  Adjusting that to £10m gives me £100k a week.

- Not many quality players want to join me, although I've been tracking a few young Brazilians from my time there.

Things I don't know:

- Everything else .

Where to start:

As above with Ceará.  I start looking through the Team Report screens and my squad list.  I won't link them all again, but it seems the team is actually ok in comparison so I reckon we've been underperforming - and probably why there was a managerial vacancy.  Talk about stating the obvious.  On closer inspection the team have mainly been playing with 3 at the back in a 5-2-1-2 WB formation.  That's going to change.

We're also short of cover at right back and right wing, so transfers will be targeted there.

What I need to do is grind out some results to get some morale back into the squad and take the pressure off the players.  My first 2 competitive matches are against the two teams directly below me in the league, so two real 6 pointers right from the get go.

In short - my defence is ok: big strong centre backs, a couple with great pace as well. Good work ethic and pace in my fullbacks.

The midfield is dominated by players with lots of Aggression and healthy doses of Determination which is great.  Aggression helps players to get stuck in without shying away from the opposition.  Determined players won't let their heads drop during matches.

For the more advanced players, We have two great wide men, a creative player through the middle and strong Target Men type players up front.

As I'm also changing my tactical system every time I change my team, this is my initial stab at something new for Hoffenheim - a 4-2-3-1:

Nothing overly radical there.

I don't want to start out matches by taking too many risks.  I'm 4th bottom of the league, we need some results.  I pick Counter mentality.  I've also picked the roles and duties that I want the players to primarily focus on - I want the roles and duties to define their behaviour - so I pick Structured as my Team Shape.

The roles and duties are picked to create variety in attack, and I've avoided using the Target Man role as I don't want my team just lumping the ball to him.  A DLF is good here due to his PIs which compliment my big strong strikers.

My two central midfielders are the key to a 4231.  I need a solid base both in terms of role selection and player selection.  All my CMs have plenty of work rate, aggression, stamina and determination.  Two are great tacklers, two others have more rounded technical skills, so a decent mix for a CM(d) and a CM(s).  A BWM could be overly aggressive, a BBM will roam around too much and none of the players would make a good playmaker type.

At this stage I'm a little unsure about my choice of role for AMC.  I don't want him overly attack minded as that may restrict space, and I don't really want to channel everything through a playmaker.  For now I settle on the AM(s) role with a PI of more risky passes - so a kind of pseudo playmaker role but without the attached ball magnet.

And speaking of PIs, I fine tune some other roles.  My front 4 are all told to close down much more - I'm not trying to create a Gegenpress here, just some hassling to unsettle opposition defenders.  My CM(s) has close down more, and both "fullbacks" are told to cross less and make fewer risky passes.  They're there to provide support to the midfield, not send loads of crosses into the box - again, risk aversion.

For Team Instructions I'm going to pick two for now:  a slightly higher defensive line to offset a little of that nasty space in front of my defenders; and be more expressive.  

That last TI is an experiment.  I only really have one very creative player, so why am I giving the entire team additional creative freedom, especially if I'm trying to be risk adverse?  Good question, and at present I have no other answer than it's something I've been meaning to experiment with for a while.  There's an old article on this forum written by SFraser for FM10 or 11 (you can find it if you dig through the stickies at the top of the forum) that goes into great depth about this shout and I've been meaning to revisit it with the latest match engine.  So no time like the present.

 

[Bjick]

All your choices are very well explained, looking forward to see it in action

[nextqprmanager]

herne 79, should be interesting, maybe start without the `be more expresssive` ? to see the difference?

[herne79]

On to some matches.

As mentioned above, my first two competitive matches are at home vs 2nd from bottom Stuttgart and away vs 3rd bottom Hamburg.  We're 4th bottom, so I'd really like 6 points here to put some distance to the relegation fight.

However, before I get into those matches, the Bundesliga is in its's mid-season break.  As my players' morale is pretty low from all the lost matches and league position, I schedule some friendly matches against low quality opposition.  This should guarantee some wins, and winning matches - even friendlies - can boost player morale.  Sure enough, I win the matches and player morale increases in time for the match against Stuttgart.

Hoffenheim vs Stuttgart

Like an idiot, I forgot to press the record button for my first competitive match, so no video.  As it turned out, that's probably a good thing.  We won the match 3-0, but it was kinda boring from an "I didn't do much during the match" point of view.  We were 2-0 up at half time, 3-0 in the 70th and I didn't change anything tactically until we hit the third goal - at which point I simply added the Shorter Passing TI to help us control the ball and see the game out.  Overall I liked how the team played, and the win was important.

Hamburger SV vs Hoffenheim

Much more interesting tactically and I recorded it.

The start of the video begins as usual with the formation screen (Hamburg start with a 442) and pre-match team talk.  I forgot to set highlights mode to full match (my memory...) so the action begins at match time 3:09 (video time 0:32).  We're the team in blue .

Unfortunately, due to unexpected file size limitations and a lack of a decent video editor the match recorded in 2 parts.  This is part one, with part two following underneath the part one write up.

The first thing I notice is my 'keeper kicking it long, even though he's been told to roll it out.  The reason he's ignoring the instruction is because nobody is free to receive the ball short (eg., video time 1:04), so I may adjust this instruction in future - perhaps to pass it to the fullbacks where there may be more space.

Video time 2:31 to 2:55 - This sequence of play troubles me a bit.  We're in possession and whilst the build up play is ultimately good - we pass the ball nicely and it's just the final ball that's lacking - I don't really like the amount of time players are dwelling on the ball.  It nearly costs us possession a couple of times and there may have been some better, more decisive passing options which were ignored.  Now this is a function of the mentality being used (Counter).  It's slow, patient build up play which supposedly leads to fewer but better chances.  That's fine, I'm happy with that aspect, but not at the cost of poor decisions or being caught in possession.  It's not the first time I've been concerned about this either.  After the resulting corner at the end of this period, I realise I haven't set up any set piece routines.  Seriously, my memory...

Video time 3:30 (match time 7:46) - I decide to increase the tempo.  This should reduce the amount of time players dwell on the ball before doing something with it.  I could have shifted mentality up to Standard, but that's going to increase lots more things than just Tempo which would be overkill.  Between making the change and it actually taking affect, there are more examples of players spending too long on the ball: Demirbay at 3:55; Rupp at 4:00; Wagner at 4:03 which ultimately costs us possession.  And quite what Rupp thinks he's doing at 4:33 is just daft - but it's because of Tempo.  All of this just backs up my decision.

4:55 (9:46) - The Tempo change has taken effect and immediately I can see the difference when we gain possession at 5:06.  This is not a counter attack as Hamburg have too many players back for the ME to start a counter, so the difference is the Tempo change.  Amiri sprints forward with the ball down the right wing (he is a Winger after all).  He passes to Wagner, who lays it off to Demirbay, who attempts to find Kramaric.  ok the attack ultimately breaks down, but the movement and passing are much more snappy than before.  Good.  If you watch the next sequence of possession (starting from 5:23 video time to 5:41) it's more of the same.  Now don't get me wrong, none of this is ultra high tempo speed, that's not what I'm aiming for and from a base point of Counter mentality wouldn't be possible anyway.  It's just a subtle change of pace to hopefully off balance the opposition a bit.

I like what I see and switch to Extended (not Key) highlights.  I'm not using Key highlights yet because this is a still a new tactical system so I want to keep more of an eye on things.

8:05 (29:52) - we score our first goal (a nice debut goal for my young Brazilian back up right back).  Highlights up until this point have been fine - we're defending well (although their crossing could be dangerous - not really surprising when they play a 442 with wingers), clearing ball away from the danger zone when needed, and possession looks good.

8:44 (35:47) - we nearly get caught out by a quick ball over the top.  Always a danger when it's two strikers against 2 defenders.  If it happens a lot I'll have to change something, but not if it's uncommon - you can't always defend against everything.

9:23 (39:10) - I switch to key highlights.

10:04 (46:00) - we go in at half time leading 1-0.  I offer a little encouragement.  As soon as the 2nd half starts, I see Hamburg have gone more aggressive and switched to a 4231, and I decide to make a few changes.  My thought process here is to take the game to Hamburg, and try to catch them at their own game by using the space they're now going to concede.  The risk of course is that I leave myself similarly open, but we played pretty well in the first half and I'm feeling confident.  I change:

- Mentality to Control.  More risk taking overall, increases individual player mentality and hopefully encourage better use of the space that Hamburg will be leaving.

- Team Shape to Flexible.  Involve my players a little more in transitions, get them working a bit more.

- Defensive line back down to normal height.  Upping mentality also involves increasing the def line - I already had a higher def line selected which would increase the new mentality's def line even higher.  I also play the offside trap as the def line will still be pretty high.

- Pass Into Space.  Again to try to take advantage of the space Hamburg are conceding.

- Change my right back from FB(s) to FB(a).  He's having a good game, let's get him flying up that wing.

Now, I don't normally make so many changes in one go.  I could have changed nothing, or just a couple of tweaks.  But when the AI makes such a change as moving to a 4231 when they're a goal down at half time, that's a signal which would be wrong to ignore.  It signals the AI is coming after me and getting aggressive.  

Perhaps I could have just gone more defensive instead, try to soak up pressure and hit them on the break.  But in my opinion that would be totally wrong in this instance because I am using a 4231.  It's the wrong formation for that kind of play because I have so many players in advanced positions - I simply can't soak pressure and hit them on the break with my players positioned as they are.  So i decide to go on the attack instead and try to use the space which the AI will now be conceding.  Oh and if I were playing Bayern I probably wouldn't be doing this and have to think of something else.  But I'm not playing one of the best teams in the world, I'm playing a relegation candidate, so I'm happy to give this a go.

We score our 2nd goal 4 minutes after making the changes.  Phew.

That's where Part One ends.  Part two:

Straight into some action.

After 11 seconds (Match time 53:39) we catch Hamburg over extending themselves (as I was hoping), and my front 4 are well positioned to take full advantage of all that juicy space.  3-0.

We score our 4th with a thunderbolt from outside the area after a corner (who needs set piece instructions anyway ) in the 56th minute.

Hamburg pull one back in the 65th also from a corner (apparently I do need set piece instructions after all).

Video time 1:54 (match time 77:48) - I decide to remove some of my aggression to see the match out.  Mentality gets put back to counter, Team Shape to Structured, slightly higher def line, remove pass into space and put tempo back to normal.  I should probably have removed the offside trap as well, but by this stage of the match that doesn't really matter.  Before the changes can take effect, we go up the other end and score our 5th thanks to nice interplay between our striker and AM(s).

3:03 (85:58) - With 5 minutes left, I take off Be More Expressive and add in Retain Possession to kill the game off.  I'm not sure why those two shouts are not mutually exclusive as they seem a bit contradictory to me, but there we go.  And of course Hamburg pop up with their 2nd goal from a free kick before the changes take effect.

Note to self - sort out your set pieces!

And that's the match.

[TheJanitor]

Love this so far. Great idea of a tactical-driven career update. Made quite the jump from Brazilian Serie B to the Bundesliga!

35 minutes ago, herne79 said:

The first thing I notice is my 'keeper kicking it long, even though he's been told to roll it out.  The reason he's ignoring the instruction is because nobody is free to receive the ball short (eg., video time 1:04), so I may adjust this instruction in future - perhaps to pass it to the fullbacks where there may be more space.

Might be careful with it, Wing backs are not usually great outlets for starting attacks. I'd just keep things as they are- you saw it yourself, when the GK has no options he will kick it long, but the rest of the time I reckon he distributes as you wish. TBH these days I hardly change his settings, as it creates a gap between the CBs and the midfield that unless you have a good BPD can create issues if the opposition press you high. It also limits your chance to try and catch the opposition with counter attacks.

Would love to see a short review of your squad, do you got any promising regen? Training and youth development, as well as squad management as a whole is rarely touched upon here and this could be a perfect platform for it.

Do your thing, though. 

[herne79]

Cheers.

3 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

Made quite the jump from Brazilian Serie B to the Bundesliga!

I was in Serie A when I made the jump .

Re. the keepers' passing, I really wanted to highlight this to help people understand that just because you instruct a player to do something doesn't mean to say he'll actually do it.  It's the same thing as telling a striker to shoot less often but he still does it, or telling defenders to play out of defence but they still boot it long - because they don't have a practical option available to carry out the instruction.  But yeh, with the keeper I may experiment but I'm not too bothered.

8 minutes ago, TheJanitor said:

Would love to see a short review of your squad, do you got any promising regen? Training and youth development, as well as squad management as a whole is rarely touched upon here and this could be a perfect platform for it.

One decent looking keeper regen, but still in the youth team at present.  I could put up a squad review if people are interested. 

I've previously written quite a bit about training, youth development and so on in other threads (linked in the stickies at the top of the forum) so didn't want to bore people with that again.  Besides, I'm not really sticking around for too long at clubs before I move on (to keep this thread moving along if nothing else) so I'm not paying much attention to youth development in this save.

I'll probably be doing some squad building during the next transfer window, so will update those dealings.

[nextqprmanager]

herne79, interesting, keep going

tbh most should know your players - most are seem good

[Bjick]

Very nice win in an interesting match! Again very clear what tactical changes you make and why. This helps a lot of people, great job!

[shirajzl]

Is this still a thing?

[herne79]

12 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

Is this still a thing?

Yes it is, I've just been stupidly busy recently plus I'm waiting for some new components to arrive to upgrade some PC hardware.  Trigger's Broom .

I'll be back on it later in the week.

[Bjick]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

Yes it is, I've just been stupidly busy recently plus I'm waiting for some new components to arrive to upgrade some PC hardware.  Trigger's Broom .

I'll be back on it later in the week.

Glad to hear, like this thread

[herne79]

Squad Building

I thought I'd change the pace a little, so instead of bombarding people with yet more boring YouTube videos and sleep-inducing write ups, here's some boring attribute analysis to wade through instead! 

Seriously though, this is my thought process during the closed season for some of my transfer business in strengthening both the squad and some key positions.  Hopefully you'll see why I made the decisions that I did.

Issues

-  I don't have unlimited funds, so transfer listed players are probably going to be the limit.  This obviously reduces my pool of players to choose from.

-  I'm Hoffenheim, not Bayern.  Not exactly the sexiest club in the world, and reputation matters when it comes to attracting players.

-  That can also work against me as my players can have their heads turned.

-  My forward line is great, midfield needs added depth, central defenders need work.  I play 4-2-3-1, so if my midfield and defenders aren't up to scratch it's going to be a long hard season.  My midfield must have a great work ethic (Determination, Work Rate, Stamina, Natural Fitness and Aggression will all come in handy).  Defenders need to be tactically aware and good in the tackle, so I'm looking for Tackling, Anticipation, Concentration and (ideally) Positioning.  Pace will also come in handy so they can recover faster when mistakes are made.  I also don't want too much Aggression in my central defenders: can be dangerous as it may encourage defenders to step up away from the def line at inopportune moments.

Solutions

-  There are some big teams sniffing around some of my players, so I should be able to boost my transfer fund.  Also, the AI is good at unsettling our players, so I'll do the same to the AI.  This can help get players Transfer Listed.

-  Not much you can do about changing your rep apart from winning stuff.  We qualified for the Europa League (just) which helps.

-  Nobody is irreplaceable, so make sure I have alternatives identified for everyone.  However this has to be limited.  Starting the next season with 11 new players because I sold everyone will cause all sorts of squad harmony and cohesion issues.  I'll be refusing some transfer requests which is going to upset some players, but tough luck, I'm the boss .

-  Lots of scouting. I start to identify players early in the year in order to get them 100% scouted in time for the transfer window.

Central Midfield

I'm by and large happy with my CMs.  They all have a great work ethic and will put in a shift.  I need one more for cover and to (hopefully) develop, and this guy was transfer listed by Monchengladbach for just £1.7m:

Consistent, likes big matches, ambitious, cheap, good potential & should develop well, great work ethic and versatile.  No reason why he couldn't become a first choice midfielder.

Central Defence

Not quite so straight forward.  Both my first choice central defenders wanted to leave (and I was quite happy to let them):

The Schär decision was pretty straight forward for me - Tackling, Concentration, Positioning and Pace were all below par, plus I squeezed £10m out of AC Milan for him.

Hübner was a little less clear cut.  He's actually pretty good, the club Captain and has decent personality traits.  However, he's too slow for my tastes, he's unlikely to improve any further and he wanted to leave.  £12.5m from OL seemed like a good deal.

So replacements.  I've got a nice kitty now (including from other dealings, more on that below) and there are some good looking targets.  But first, a couple of the players I rejected:

Rejecting Baumgartl may surprise some as he is a young German defender with bags of potential and a decent attitude.  However, whilst most aspects could be trained up, he'd need tutoring to improve his Determination which may be problematic given his reputation and (probable) first team status.  His Bravery is also too low and is extremely unlikely to improve much (if at all).  Defenders who are scared to make challenges will cause issues.

Also rejected:

I actually quite liked the look of this guy and would have bought him if others hadn't been available.  His Concentration, Composure and Pace could use some work, but his personality would help him to train well.  He has a couple of negatives, but adapting to a new country is just a short term thing and Big Matches can always improve (and doesn't bother me much anyway).

Central Defenders bought:

Transfer listed by Spurs for £13m, and pretty much a no-brainer.  I could do with him losing that PPM, but you can't have everything.  He's got everything I'm looking for, and will only get better.

I picked up this guy from Stuttgart (who were relegated by the way) rather than Baumgartl.  He's a big, strong centre back with great pace and a decent personality.  Will also train well and improve.  I almost bought Quarta (see above) instead of this guy, but his stronger all round mentals swung it for me.

Other Deals

I was reluctant to lose Kramaric.  He'd absolutely nailed his IF role the previous season and was a star performer.  However £24m is hard to say no to, especially as there was a ready made (and arguably) better replacement transfer listed by Juventus for just £8m - Marco Pjaca.  Already good enough for the first team, he has great potential, personality, consistency, can play on either wing or even up front.  He'd actually been transfer listed for about 6 months, so was very happy to join me and has proved to be a bit of a bargain.

And finally Philipp Ochs, my left back.  He's actually pretty good and was one I really didn't want to lose, however Bayern came sniffing and offered me a very cheeky £10m, which was his value at the time.  He had a contract release clause for clubs playing in the Champions' League of £38m, which is what I went back to Bayern with.  In return they offered me a non-negotiable £36m which I went laughing all the way to the bank with.  Ochs' replacement is Andrew Robertson from Hull, who was one of three or four choices I'd previously identified.

Great Technicals, good Mentals all across the board (would have preferred more Aggression) and fast enough.  Good potential and personality as well.

I'll also mention here that several other players came to me asking to leave, and I rejected all of their requests.  Naturally this upset them, but a short while after the close of the transfer window every one of them (with one exception) decided they wanted to stay after all and are now happily continuing their playing careers at Hoffenheim.  The one exception to this is my main striker Sandro Wagner.  He's in the last year of his contract and has decided he'll see it out and leave.  No big deal as I was planning on replacing him at the end of the year anyway.

[nextqprmanager]

Good insight / transfer dealings

[summatsupeer]

There's a lot of good stuff people can learn from in this topic. From making a tactic to get the best from the players you have, to then building on that with transfers who fit the system, I think this is a common issue with manager going for names/value/stars.

Keep it up 

[mattgranger]

On 6/7/2017 at 18:46, herne79 said:

Yup.  The tactical system I use here isn't too different from a West Ham save I have, or even with Real Madrid (CR7 as a Poacher is just insane).

Hi Herne

Did you document your west ham save? If so I'd be curious to see how it went!

[herne79]

2 hours ago, mattgranger said:

Hi Herne

Did you document your west ham save? If so I'd be curious to see how it went!

Hey Matt,

Kind of.  The initial idea for it started in that West Ham club guide I did https://community.sigames.com/topic/393991-fm17-west-ham-utd-fortunes-always-hiding/.

I ended up playing the narrow diamond with the transferred players I discussed there.  The Belotti / Lapadula combo up front were just insane.