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Fitzcairn

Please expand the database on FMT

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Hi, could it be possible to let us choose more than 3 countries on FM Touch for players with iPad Pro or Air 2 who are both very powerful ?

I have been a longtime player of FM on PC but now that i can play on tablet everywhere i prefer the Touch experience. I know the Touch version is more streamlined but i would prefer to let players choose what they prefer without restrictions if our tablet can handle it.

I mean it seriously it bother me to have database players restrictions and can't make the team i really want just because you don't give the choice to the customers.

On PC you let players choose with a warning if they choose too much championships and too large players database. But in final it's their problem and own business.

SO PLEASE GIVE US THE CHOICE ON TABLET TOO DAMNIT. THANKS :)

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It's not locked down for an arbitrary reason. The fact is more leagues and players loaded consumes more memory. Until devices and tablet OSes are more able to allow games in general to use more memory then this isn't something that is likely to change in future.

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I understand your point of view but if the customers use a device who can handle it ? I mean the new iPad pro is a high quality and powerful product with lot of core, frequency and ram memory with also the new iOS systeme file who make it a lot better too.

Why not let the players decide for themselves ? The player with budget tablet can still use the actual restriction and the advanced users with expensive tablet could play without restriction it would be faire for everyone don't you think ?

I mean i'm pro-choice just let the gamers decide what is best for themselves i don't really like restrictions, people are not kids you should not decide for them so please let them free :)

Thank you

 

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43 minutes ago, Fitzcairn said:

Why not let the players decide for themselves ?

The decision on what can be handled isn't up to the user - we have to work within the hardware limitations on each platform. I already explained this in my first post.  

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On 13/05/2017 at 21:48, Lucas Weatherby said:

The decision on what can be handled isn't up to the user - we have to work within the hardware limitations on each platform. I already explained this in my first post.  

What about people who own the lastest iPad Pro from Apple and can handle more than 3 leagues ? I'm sure it's the same case with some Android tablet too. You could adapt the restriction for users with powerfull hardware. I think you are too restrictive.

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I agree to this. I can choose e.g. England, Germany and Portugal and got 12 Leagues. 6 in England, 3 in Germany and 3 in Portugal. Why isn't it possible to select 5 countries with 10 Leagues? I think you should restrict it by the number of league. 

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21 minutes ago, sgevolker said:

I agree to this. I can choose e.g. England, Germany and Portugal and got 12 Leagues. 6 in England, 3 in Germany and 3 in Portugal. Why isn't it possible to select 5 countries with 10 Leagues? I think you should restrict it by the number of league. 

That's something we looked at a long time ago and why we have the system we have now. Different countries and league systems are not uniform, there are a different number of teams, vastly different number of players added in extra as well that are all taken into account when making a limit. Which there has to be in order for the game to run on handheld devices.

3 hours ago, Fitzcairn said:

What about people who own the lastest iPad Pro from Apple and can handle more than 3 leagues ? I'm sure it's the same case with some Android tablet too. You could adapt the restriction for users with powerfull hardware. I think you are too restrictive.

Unfortunately it's not as simple as restricting by devices either. What might be possible on Android might not on Apple, for example. Like on PC we have to draw the line on whats possible with certain minimum requirements in mind. 

All the above said - that's just an explanation of why things are this way, currently. It is something we look at and if it's possible it could change in future. Hopefully as tech improves that's something we might be able to add to the game one day.

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I was going to mention this in the wishlist thread but found this thread instead. I agree that a bigger database would be great, but also understand that it's very difficult memory wise. I think that when playing in some countries, when playing at a certain level (for example playing in France with a team in lower to mid table in Ligue 1), you are quite restricted with the players you can buy. As mentioned, it might be difficult memory wise, but would it be possible when starting a new game to have the option to select a larger database and playing a 2D version or a lower 3D resolution ? Or removing some of the graphics like the stands and spectators or something?

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Big bump from me on this one. My shiny new iPad Pro feels hamstrung with only three countries. It’s a much faster machine than my MacBook but is held back by the number of leagues it can display. Now with more RAM too so could surely speed through several more leagues quite happily. 

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The three country limit and the 30 years limit are both ridiculous given the power of the most up to date tablets. Particularly iPad Pros and the newest Android devices.

Yes there are restrictions on what different tablets can handle but the likes of a Surface are coming out with full 2018 i7 processors. This along with the staunch refusal to allow even the most basic of editing scream of SI wanting to make sure people are forced to buy the new version every year. "It's against the ethos of FM Touch". Rubbish. I'm the consumer. Let me pick what the ethos is. I want the streamlined managerial experience but I would also like to not have Porto come up as FCP for goodness sake.

 

They have treated loyal fans of FM like crap for years.

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Current iPad Pros (most likely newer, faster models coming in 2018) and high-end Android tablets have so much more power than the tablets a few years back.

3 nations really needs to be upgraded to at least 5 and surely another decade could be added to the game duration?

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On 18/07/2018 at 00:20, KnightedManager said:

The three country limit and the 30 years limit are both ridiculous given the power of the most up to date tablets. Particularly iPad Pros and the newest Android devices.

The game is designed for other tablets as well, and needs to run on those. The minimum spec and demands on a tablet would have to increase as well to change limits. 

On 18/07/2018 at 00:20, KnightedManager said:

Yes there are restrictions on what different tablets can handle but the likes of a Surface are coming out with full 2018 i7 processors. This along with the staunch refusal to allow even the most basic of editing scream of SI wanting to make sure people are forced to buy the new version every year. "It's against the ethos of FM Touch". Rubbish. I'm the consumer. Let me pick what the ethos is. I want the streamlined managerial experience but I would also like to not have Porto come up as FCP for goodness sake.

 

They have treated loyal fans of FM like crap for years.

I don't think so and certainly wouldn't agree. A Surface can run the PC version of FM Touch, it does not run the Tablet version so I don't understand what you're getting at here. 

Additions for FM Touch take into account the platforms it's developed on. It's not currently possible to have an editor at the moment, particularly when we are bound by hardware limitations as well.

49 minutes ago, McClane29 said:

Current iPad Pros (most likely newer, faster models coming in 2018) and high-end Android tablets have so much more power than the tablets a few years back.

3 nations really needs to be upgraded to at least 5 and surely another decade could be added to the game duration?

All suggestions are welcome and the league and player limits is something monitored and we've experimented with. It's not an arbitrary limit but one chosen to ensure the game runs for 30 seasons on all compatible devices.

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10 hours ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

The game is designed for other tablets as well, and needs to run on those. The minimum spec and demands on a tablet would have to increase as well to change limits.

What I don't understand about this argument is that the full version of the game has minimum specs but no restrictions. If I were to run a maximum database with ten nations and all leagues on a minimum spec computer/laptop it would inevitably run slower than if I was running it on a ultra high end machine. A normal sized database with, say, five nations and all leagues would run slower after 30 years on the minimum spec machine than high end. People make that choice for themselves when they start their games. Of course they also have the option of adding or removing nations later - another very useful function omitted from Touch.

If loading more nations/leagues on the tablet version is a problem for longevity, is the option to replace nations not a viable alternative? Maintain the three active nations limit, but permit us to 'swap' active nations at the end of seasons. Use the same process as adding/removing leagues but only allow a new nation to be added if one is removed.

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2 minutes ago, KnightedManager said:

What I don't understand about this argument is that the full version of the game has minimum specs but no restrictions. If I were to run a maximum database with ten nations and all leagues on a minimum spec computer/laptop it would inevitably run slower than if I was running it on a ultra high end machine. A normal sized database with, say, five nations and all leagues would run slower after 30 years on the minimum spec machine than high end. People make that choice for themselves when they start their games. Of course they also have the option of adding or removing nations later - another very useful function omitted from Touch.

Tablets (and phones) run differently, on different operating systems with tightly controlled ecosystem and requirements any developer has to work within. This includes for example, how much memory a game is allowed to utilise. That's different to a PC which doesn't have that restriction (other than specified by the particular hardware in your machine - you'd run out of memory eventually there...). 

People do make that choice for themselves when starting a game, but a Tablet just isn't the same as the PC for the above reason, so there are restrictions we have to work within. That means, a 30 season limit and not being able to add and remove leagues (this requires more horsepower and memory), it all adds up. It might change in future but that's down to what's technically possible in order to provide a consistent gameplay experience for everyone.

 

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10 hours ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

I don't think so and certainly wouldn't agree. A Surface can run the PC version of FM Touch, it does not run the Tablet version so I don't understand what you're getting at here. 

Additions for FM Touch take into account the platforms it's developed on. It's not currently possible to have an editor at the moment, particularly when we are bound by hardware limitations as well.

My point is that the Surface is a high end tablet. Tablets are getting so advanced they can run the unrestricted PC version of Touch. It makes arguments about the limitations of specs and minimum hardware requirements seem a little odd. Just because the capability to run more nations or longer saves is there doesn't mean people are automatically going to use it. A lot of people take the 'projected speed' stars at database setup and adjust accordingly. Personally I have never minded a slower running game in full FM with larger, more immersive databases.

It is about giving people the choice. Buying a game that works one way on one machine but is limited on another doesn't seem right.

In respect of an editor, what hardware issues prevent the use of .dbc files on Touch? The databases for Full FM and Touch, I would guess, use the same Unique IUD numbers and core structures. Those haven't really changed in years. We can use .ddt, .edt, and .lnc files for both. What exactly is the block on the editor? Cost? Time constraints?

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Just now, KnightedManager said:
11 hours ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

 

My point is that the Surface is a high end tablet. Tablets are getting so advanced they can run the unrestricted PC version of Touch. It makes arguments about the limitations of specs and minimum hardware requirements seem a little odd. Just because the capability to run more nations or longer saves is there doesn't mean people are automatically going to use it. A lot of people take the 'projected speed' stars at database setup and adjust accordingly. Personally I have never minded a slower running game in full FM with larger, more immersive databases.

It is about giving people the choice. Buying a game that works one way on one machine but is limited on another doesn't seem right.

The Surface runs a PC Operating System, not a Tablet one - it is completely different to having an iPad. There is a reason Apple don't let you run full blown macOS apps on an iPad...

These devices might be getting faster, and have more RAM (we support other devices too), but there are still restrictions on developers on what they can do for deploying to devices, whether that is the hardware themselves or developer guidelines from Apple/Nintendo/Playstation etc. Going against those rules means you can't sell in the stores. It's really not just about the spec sheet.

2 minutes ago, KnightedManager said:


In respect of an editor, what hardware issues prevent the use of .dbc files on Touch? The databases for Full FM and Touch, I would guess, use the same Unique IUD numbers and core structures. Those haven't really changed in years. We can use .ddt, .edt, and .lnc files for both. What exactly is the block on the editor? Cost? Time constraints?

The Operating Systems don't provide direct access to the filesystem the way you are allowed to on a PC. You can't do that as a user so these things you're talking about you just can't do.

The database on FMT is different as well to FM (it's smaller to work on tablets), so it has changed in order to bring a fuller FM experience to these devices. 

Hope that answers your questions.

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12 minutes ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

The Surface runs a PC Operating System, not a Tablet one - it is completely different to having an iPad. There is a reason Apple don't let you run full blown macOS apps on an iPad...These devices might be getting faster, and have more RAM (we support other devices too), but there are still restrictions on developers on what they can do for deploying to devices, whether that is the hardware themselves or developer guidelines from Apple/Nintendo/Playstation etc. Going against those rules means you can't sell in the stores. It's really not just about the spec sheet.

Obviously I do not know the developer side of it, nor if it is the same on Android, but Mac state in plenty of their notes about iOS there is no explicit limit on VM usage by apps. What is there, can be used. If you get towards the maximum you'll get a memory usage warning, just like a laptop or desktop.

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14 minutes ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

The Operating Systems don't provide direct access to the filesystem the way you are allowed to on a PC. You can't do that as a user so these things you're talking about you just can't do.

The database on FMT is different as well to FM (it's smaller to work on tablets), so it has changed in order to bring a fuller FM experience to these devices. 

Hope that answers your questions.

What prevents us from starting a game on the PC version of FM Touch, then cross-saving it later? Once edits (like adding missing youngsters, as an example) are in the database you wouldn't need direct access to the file system. We all know of the existance of an unofficial in-game editor that is able to run exactly the same edits on the desktop verison of Touch as full FM. If they can manage it, why can't the game's own developers?

 

While I have your attention by the way, any chance of an answer to this please:
 

On 18/07/2018 at 12:24, KnightedManager said:

Where can I find the

~AppData\Local\Sports Interactive\Football Manager Touch 2018 and

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Football Manager Touch 2018

equivalents in the iOS version, please.

 

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41 minutes ago, KnightedManager said:

While I have your attention by the way, any chance of an answer to this please:

I've already answered this question: 

1 hour ago, Lucas Weatherby said:

The Operating Systems don't provide direct access to the filesystem the way you are allowed to on a PC. You can't do that as a user so these things you're talking about you just can't do.

 

It is not possible.

47 minutes ago, KnightedManager said:

Obviously I do not know the developer side of it, nor if it is the same on Android, but Mac state in plenty of their notes about iOS there is no explicit limit on VM usage by apps. What is there, can be used. If you get towards the maximum you'll get a memory usage warning, just like a laptop or desktop.

Actually the operating systems themselves will just kill the app if they need the extra memory. 

You're placing too much equivalence to the desktop, they don't work the same way and FM Touch is designed for multiple platforms so development has to respect that and all the requirements and restrictions there-in. No amount of disagreeing can change the fact it is not currently possible.

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