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MShing

help needed to understand my tactics please

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So I am in desperate need of help with my tactics, up until fm17 my tactics usually consisted of choosing fluid and either control or attacking with a 4-2-3-1 or 433 formation, with various TI commands not really knowing what every thing did. But I got results

Now in FM17 I have been trying to understand tactics more and try to get a good footballing tactic and get success with it, but so far I have not much luck.

I have read the majority of the tactics guides on here and have watched @Rashidi you tube channel. I understand that mentality adjusts the teams risk, and shape adjusts the distance between players and how they work together. I think I have a decent knowledge of what player roles do and in theory I think I can set up what looks to me a decent formation but I just cannot get my teams to play well at all.

I will post my tactics on here and hopefully you guys can tell me where I am going wrong

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I did have a flat midfield 3 having a cm(a) on the right side with pi's similar to an adv playmaker but that didn't work so I tried pushing him up into the AMC strata

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My TI's I change to be more simplistic to see where my team was going wrong, but even with TI;s my play was no good.

 

I thought a change of formation might help

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I struggle to create chances and convert them, could be my strikers being poor but they are decent for the league were in. My forwards are caught offside loads during games and cannot tell how to fix this.

 

As I have said I have watched rashidis youtube videos and read the guides on here but I just seem to struggle to see where my tactic is going wrong. I understand the principles of what everything means to an extent but I just cannot seems to translate it into my tactics. sometimes during matched we will get a couple of good periods of play and I just cannot figure out why we cannot play like that more often. Other times we just struggle to create anything and defend ok most of the time but inevitably will concede and we can just never come back from that.

I love this game and have played it since CM1 in the early 90s. (Not making me seem old at all :D) but until now I have never really looked in depth into tactics, but the tactics side of the game is now what draws me back to the game, I am just desperate to know how tactics work inside out so I can see what is going wrong and what to do to remedy it.

 

Thanks in advance

 

TL:DR

Been playing CM/FM over 20 years, still knows nothing about tactics. Time to teach an old dog some new tricks!

Edited by MShing

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Gonna look at your first system, inherently its fine, you play on control fluid, so your transitions should be decent, provided u get the ball to the midfielders. Your issue lies with attacking spaces. At the moment whenever you launch attacks, the balls could be making their way to the TM more than you like. So you could be seeing isolation. 

You are  playing deep which is fine, provided you have the players who can make the passes to the guys upfront. To make this tactic work, you will need a solid TM, if you don't you need to think of other options. If your TM has no strength, bravery and composure, then he can't play the role.

 

The thing about the first tactic is that it will fall apart if your players can't pass and if he can't hold up the ball. Even the AM needs good composure and first touch to do something with the ball.  The play is one dimensional because you are playing direct to a target which can work brilliantly if you can draw them out. When this happens you will need these players to hold up the ball and work well with the AM, so if the players aI talk about are not good at what they do, your system will fall apart.

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Thanks for the reply Rashidi. 

My TM isn't the best tbh. I have tried different players in different roles there. With my flat 3 midfield I tried a DLP and a F9 but I still couldn't create much. Once I moved a midfielder into the AMC role I am never sure whether it is a good idea to partner an AMC with a striker such as dlp or f9 ahead of them so that's why I tried the TM. 

My team is Red Star FC in French div 2 my midfielders have decent passing between 12-14

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13 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Gonna look at your first system, inherently its fine, you play on control fluid, so your transitions should be decent, provided u get the ball to the midfielders. Your issue lies with attacking spaces. At the moment whenever you launch attacks, the balls could be making their way to the TM more than you like. So you could be seeing isolation. 

You are  playing deep which is fine, provided you have the players who can make the passes to the guys upfront. To make this tactic work, you will need a solid TM, if you don't you need to think of other options. If your TM has no strength, bravery and composure, then he can't play the role.

 

The thing about the first tactic is that it will fall apart if your players can't pass and if he can't hold up the ball. Even the AM needs good composure and first touch to do something with the ball.  The play is one dimensional because you are playing direct to a target which can work brilliantly if you can draw them out. When this happens you will need these players to hold up the ball and work well with the AM, so if the players aI talk about are not good at what they do, your system will fall apart.

Now I am more awake to think about your advice that totally makes sense now. 

Ive never really thought about how players roles will effect how the players around him will react. And how that will affect the way the team plays  

Seems so simple now thinking about it. Use a TM expect long balls and an isolated forward if he hasn't got the support around him. 

Thanks again 👍🏻

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Nope still no good cannot buy a win anywhere. I've tried countless formations tonight with different variations of shouts and mentality/shape. I've reloaded matches to try different thing. 

Either my players are **** or I haven't a clue what I'm doing in fm17. 

Even when I'm in a winning position I will concede a late equaliser or a late winner to lose. I've got to the point now I can tell if the oppo will score late on 😂

The laptop almost got flung across the room on more than a couple occasions 😂😂😂

 

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I play a very similar system to yours.  However, I have players specifically to fit it so it may not work for you.  However, just in case it helps you I'll describe it and how it works as it might help you improve your system to achieve what you want.  Firstly, I play standard structured as my default mentality and shape.  Standard because it gives me a the greatest flexibility to change in game as I can go up or down the risk ladder depending on in game situations.  Shape is structured for a similar reason though also because when I designed the tactic I was playing in league 2 in England and I wanted my players to stick to the tactic.  However, if I feel my players are getting too big a gap between them then I will go up the ladder, often doing so when trying to break teams down as well.

I play a high pressure possession system where the team instructions fall into three camps:

  1. High press instructions of close down much more, tighter marking and offside trap
  2. possession instructions of shorter passing, dribble less and work ball into box
  3. optional instructions that are turned off and on as appropriate are be more expressive (now I have better players), pass into space and roam from positions

Of the optional instructions I tend to use them most of the time these days as my Aston Villa side is now one of the best in the world but they are not essential to the style.

The roles are set up for possession so there is only two attack duties and it is the same formation as yours

Standard GK

Stopper-Cover-Stopper at centre back and although I play them as central defender roles they are all fairly comfortable on the ball.

LCWB-a and RCWB-s no instructions though I will add close down less to both wing backs when facing a team which attacks mainly on the flanks using both wingers and attacking fullbacks

DLP-d and BBM - the DLP controls the ball from deep recycling possession if the team gets into trouble and is also able to break up opposition attacks.  He doesn't get assists but is a vital part of the way the team plays.  The BBM has moves into channels to encourage passing option creation

AM-s the player with the most instructions is set up to function as a playmaker without the ball magnet function of an actual playmaker he has: more risky passes, roam from position and get further forward.  This allows him to be creative and always be available for a pass in buildup by moving away from an opposition DM.  The get further forward means he will occasionally break into the box past the strikers often using a one-two to score.  My current player in the position has 11 goals and 10 assists in 27 games In the position.

STL - CF-s and STR AF-a no additional instructions on either.  You need a creative forward for the CF-s role and a standard AF for the AF role.

The long and short of it is that all players need at least decent passing for the level you are playing at though the centre backs and wing backs don't need to be that high though obviously more is better.

Hopefully this will help you think through your system.  If you have any questions or want to discuss anything I'm happy to help.

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Hi @WhyMe, thanks for the advise. I tried some of the suggestions you said, but I just dont think my players are geared up for the system and type of football I am trying to play.

I have since had a break through and are on a 5 game winning streak.

I sort of stumbled upon this formation and it seems to be working at the moment

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Hopefully we can sustain our good form for the remainder of the season.

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