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Crucial Attributes for Head of Youth Development

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10 hours ago, mersk said:

 

Is there a particular reason these lines have a strikethrough? Is it meant to imply the information is no longer valid?

Yes.

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3 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

Yes.

Any chance you could elaborate? If Youth Recruitment doesn't determine the PA of newgens, what does? A lot of factors, obviously, but are there any you'd emphasize as particularly important? What are the functions of Junior Coaching, Youth Recruitment, and Facilities if they no longer affect the thing mentioned in that post?

 

I was also a little confused at how HOYD was said to mainly just affect the personality, but that all youth staff will slightly influence the PA of your best newgens, with JPP and WWY underlined as the key attributes. It was also stated that HOYD does the same thing, only with twice as much impact (I'm assuming twice as much as any given staff member, and not twice as much as all other staff members combined). So does the HOYD's JPP and WWY directly affect the newgens' PA or not?

 

It's surprising that so much of this information is kept secret, especially considering how important it is for both average and veteran players. I can appreciate keeping stuff 'under the hood' away from prying eyes, but it seems like it's been taken a bit too far.

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4 minutes ago, mersk said:

Any chance you could elaborate? If Youth Recruitment doesn't determine the PA of newgens, what does? A lot of factors, obviously, but are there any you'd emphasize as particularly important? What are the functions of Junior Coaching, Youth Recruitment, and Facilities if they no longer affect the thing mentioned in that post?

Youth Recruitment, Junior Coaching and Youth Facilities all contribute to the quality of newgens (both current and potential ability).

Training Facilities are used by all of your visible squads, the quality of which helps determine player progression.

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2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Youth Recruitment, Junior Coaching and Youth Facilities all contribute to the quality of newgens (both current and potential ability).

Training Facilities are used by all of your visible squads, the quality of which helps determine player progression.

So basically the algorithms have been made more intricate/complicated than before?

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The Head of Youth Development (HoYD)
The club’s HoYD is responsible for bringing Newgens into the club. He will influence what “type” of players are selected and can partially or fully pass on his personality to some of these Newgens.
The HoYD will also influence the rare “freak” or exceptional Newgens that come through, modifying their ability and style.
This role is filled by the HoYD by default, however if none is employed whichever staff member is set to be responsible for youth development will fill this role. It is also possible to select another staff member to fill this role manually on the Staff Responsibilities page.
All youth staff can influence Newgens, however the HoYD’s impact is double that of the others.

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So to sum up, your best bet for getting (and developing (apart from playing time of course)) good newgens is as follows?

  1. A HOYD with a good personality (ie. Model Professional, considering how rare/unlikely Model Citizen is) and good highlighted attributes (JPA, JPP, WWY)?
  2. Best possible Youth Recruitment, Junior Coaching, and Youth/Training Facilities
  3. Best possible youth coaches, with high values for (JPA?) JPP and WWY
  4. Pray to RNGesus
  5. Profit?

PS: When you say "all youth staff", does that include more than youth coaches? Can even U18 Physio, Data Analysts, and Sports Scientists have an impact?

Edited by mersk

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9 minutes ago, mersk said:

PS: When you say "all youth staff", does that include more than youth coaches? Can even U18 Physio, Data Analysts, and Sports Scientists have an impact?

Just those involved in training.

The nation you are based in is also a large factor. On average Brazil is always going to produce a better Newgen than Costa Rica. Nations also "styles" of Newgen, where Brazil may be more likely to produce a flairy, attacking wingback than say Serbia.

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21 minutes ago, mersk said:

So to sum up, your best bet for getting (and developing (apart from playing time of course)) good newgens is as follows?

Just one other point on developing - whilst match time and training are relevant for all players to aid development, before the age of 18 Training takes precedence.  From 18 and up, match time becomes more important.

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2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Just one other point on developing - whilst match time and training are relevant for all players to aid development, before the age of 18 Training takes precedence.  From 18 and up, match time becomes more important.

So it's still considered a good idea to move those promising youngsters to the first team in order to have them trained by better coaches, and just make them available for the U18 squad?

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9 minutes ago, mersk said:

So it's still considered a good idea to move those promising youngsters to the first team in order to have them trained by better coaches, and just make them available for the U18 squad?

That'll depend on the quality of your coaches.  Working with Youngsters is an important attribute for youth coaches however they still need good coaching attributes for their area of expertise.  If you do put them all into the senior squad, also be mindful of coach workloads - too heavy and it can have a detrimental affect on player development (although easily solved by hiring an extra coach to spread the workload).

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On 14/07/2017 at 07:53, Analog said:

Here's Speakman in 2019/2020, btw.  I think he will improve still.

 

Speakman.jpg

I have him in my staff shortlist. Am at AC Milan, 1st season in game and current HPYD contract is up at end of season, was thinking of replacing him with Speakman as he has the same preferred formation as mine.

BUT some of the other attributes are better in my current guy, AND we already have about the fourth best youth recruitment/facilities in the game so am wary of changing things.

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I have a head of youth that is a model citizen- Romuald Peiser a GK from France, got him initially in as a player, told him he'd make a great coach, offered him a great offer to be a head of youth and now he greatly influences my youth personalities

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I have a HOYD with excellent WWY and judging and who has my tactic, 4-3-1-2 Narrow, as favorite. Still I get loads of wingers and half-backs that are not used in my tactic. I also get player roles that are not what I use in my tactic. I'm guessing the roles are random but it would be nice to have the option to create a "vision of play" or template tactic to influence player roles and positions. (I would like to have more Complete WIng-Backs with flair since i do not use wingers...)

So how come I get wrong positions for my youths? Does the tactical knowledge stat play a part as well?

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5 hours ago, angelpure said:

I have a HOYD with excellent WWY and judging and who has my tactic, 4-3-1-2 Narrow, as favorite. Still I get loads of wingers and half-backs that are not used in my tactic. I also get player roles that are not what I use in my tactic. I'm guessing the roles are random but it would be nice to have the option to create a "vision of play" or template tactic to influence player roles and positions. (I would like to have more Complete WIng-Backs with flair since i do not use wingers...)

So how come I get wrong positions for my youths? Does the tactical knowledge stat play a part as well?

The HoYD can influence the positions of newgens but it won't guarantee them.  You can always retrain them to other positions.  As far as roles go the players are young enough for you to shape them however you want, all you have at present is a starting point to build on.

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Il 18/5/2018 in 14:25 , herne79 ha scritto:

Just one other point on developing - whilst match time and training are relevant for all players to aid development, before the age of 18 Training takes precedence.  From 18 and up, match time becomes more important.

I have a question about the match time: is it relevant for the development of player if he plays friendly matches and with the youth team or if he plays on loan in an actual league?

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7 minutes ago, Delvi said:

I have a question about the match time: is it relevant for the development of player if he plays friendly matches and with the youth team or if he plays on loan in an actual league?

Playing at a relevant level is usually the most beneficial.  If you loan someone out, especially someone with high potential, keep a close eye on their match time and development.  Always have a recall clause in the loan contract.

Friendly matches aren't as beneficial as players don't put in as much effort as competitive games.

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1 minuto fa, herne79 ha scritto:

Playing at a relevant level is usually the most beneficial.  If you loan someone out, especially someone with high potential, keep a close eye on their match time and development.  Always have a recall clause in the loan contract.

Friendly matches aren't as beneficial as players don't put in as much effort as competitive games.

Matches played with U20 and U18 teams are seen as friendly matches for the player development?

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1 hour ago, Delvi said:

Matches played with U20 and U18 teams are seen as friendly matches for the player development?

Friendly matches are seen as friendlies, regardless of which squad plays.

If your U20 or U18 play a competitive match, that's not a friendly.

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On 18/05/2018 at 12:51, Seb Wassell said:


All youth staff can influence Newgens, however the HoYD’s impact is double that of the others.

@sebwassel HoYD is double of all the others or HoYD effect = 2 youth staff involved in training? 

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I still would love to understand how, for example, in my 2073 save, the freiburg had so many Portuguese newgens with amazing PA, that became part of a great generation.

Also, I remember in FM2017 Stuttgart had loads of Polish players, when the HOYD was not even polish or they had any Polish Affiliated club.

I have a theory that most of the newgens are created based on famous/well reputed retired players from that Nation. Also the Nation reputation and achievements are what determines them.

What I cant understand is why sometimes (most of the time) I see, in low reputation/youth facilities club a constant creation world class newgens, year after year... 

Or maybe all of these only take effect after 5 to 10 years, so Imagine you have the best HoYD in the world, he only start bringing world class players after that time...

Just my 2 cents on this discussion, since I'm crazy about "Canteras" and I always try to use my clubgrown players, I try to do a Ajax,Sporting,Barcelona every team I go hahaha

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Any opinion on "perfectionist" as a personality for the HOYD? Also, has any of the above info changed for FM19? My HOYD is nearing the end of his contract and I'm wondering if I should replace him, and if so, with whom. Here is one candidate I'm considering:

image.png

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I'm not sure how most on here view it but I see it as a 'neutral' personality. There are positives for being a perfectionist but also negatives. Definitely better personalities. 

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5 hours ago, Weston said:

Any opinion on "perfectionist" as a personality for the HOYD? Also, has any of the above info changed for FM19? My HOYD is nearing the end of his contract and I'm wondering if I should replace him, and if so, with whom. Here is one candidate I'm considering:

image.png

With the Perfectionist personality basically he's an ambitious and professional individual  but short tempered too, i.e. low tolerance when things didn't go their way.

Edited by bangkonggedek

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8 hours ago, Weston said:

Any opinion on "perfectionist" as a personality for the HOYD? Also, has any of the above info changed for FM19? My HOYD is nearing the end of his contract and I'm wondering if I should replace him, and if so, with whom. Here is one candidate I'm considering:

image.png

Overall he'll influence (some of) your players to be faster learners with shorter tempers. Since he's also got excellent JPP/JPA/WWY he'll also have a slight positive effect on some of their abilities. 

It's also worth looking at his media handling which might hint that he's also very good at handling pressure which I think a lot of people overlook. "Evasive" sounds bad, but it'd actually be really, really good

Overall, it probably depends what matters more to you - youngsters developing quickly or youngsters not kicking up a fuss. And whether your existing HOYD is any good to start off with.

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5 hours ago, bangkonggedek said:

With the Perfectionist personality basically he's an ambitious and professional individual  but short tempered too, i.e. low tolerance when things didn't go their way.

 

2 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Overall he'll influence (some of) your players to be faster learners with shorter tempers. Since he's also got excellent JPP/JPA/WWY he'll also have a slight positive effect on some of their abilities. 

It's also worth looking at his media handling which might hint that he's also very good at handling pressure which I think a lot of people overlook. "Evasive" sounds bad, but it'd actually be really, really good

, it probably depends what matters more to you - youngsters developing quickly or youngsters not kicking up a fuss. And whether your existing HOYD is any good to start off with.

His media handling style is "volatile." I can't imagine why my HOYD would ever interact with the media, but this does seem to indicate a short fuse, which I suppose could be bad in general. Does having a HOYD who is quick to snap actually make youth players the same way, or would it beat them into submission? Not sure how psychologically we're breaking things down haha

I'd really love to hire Biasotto as my AM, but he will likely not want that role, in which case I would make him my HOYD, however he's not currently interested. Perhaps once his contract runs out he will be, or they will renew and I will move on. Costanzi isn't perfect, but as you can see he seems to be an improvement on my current HOYD in every way except for WWY by a very small margin, and, apparently, temperament. From what I can tell he is the best that comes up when sorted by people actually interested in signing.

Does reputation really have any effect? Do players work harder for a staff member they see as more reputable? I guess when thinking about the HOYD as simply promoting players already in the U15s as opposed to actually finding and convincing entirely new kids to sign his reputation feels less important. Also, I don't play with wingers, so I'd love to have an HOYD with a preferred narrow formation stop bringing in wingers, but it seems like that theory has been debunked so I don't really bother paying attention to it.

image.pngimage.thumb.png.4fbe563ce638303ae11a7e86ceafa470.png

Edited by Weston

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By the way @Weston, what other leagues did you load for your current save? If you included Brazil then Luiz Fernando Moraes could be a decent alternative who can pretty much be an extra hand of decent coach for your youth teams as well. He's usually stay unemployed since the start of the game and no clubs ever seem to bother to hire him in my saves. Sometimes his name won't show up in the Staff Search screen for some reason, so you should manually search his name.

 

Screen Shot 2019-01-24 at 9.56.05 PM.png

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I think a little too much emphasis is being placed on the HOYD ahead of facilities etc. here. To hark back to my comments of 2017, the HOYD will influence only the "star" or "freak" newgens when it comes to ability. Personality-wise a number may come through similar to the HOYD. However, the majority of your intake will not. Other (youth) staff members can have an impact here too, but the HOYD is by far the largest contributor.

On 21/12/2018 at 09:36, BAD-RELIGION said:

I have a theory that most of the newgens are created based on famous/well reputed retired players from that Nation. Also the Nation reputation and achievements are what determines them.

This is untrue.

On 21/12/2018 at 09:36, BAD-RELIGION said:

Also, I remember in FM2017 Stuttgart had loads of Polish players, when the HOYD was not even polish or they had any Polish Affiliated club.

Because historically many people from either nation take up residence in the other, especially Poland > Germany. In the same way that England "produces" players like Wilf Zaha and Victor Moses, youngsters, their parents or grandparents migrate from one country to another and thus the footballer "comes through" a club from a nation not of their birth or chosen (footballing) nationality.

On 21/12/2018 at 09:36, BAD-RELIGION said:

What I cant understand is why sometimes (most of the time) I see, in low reputation/youth facilities club a constant creation world class newgens, year after year... 

Most likely because of the numbers involved. You control 1 club, but there are countless other clubs from which these newgens could come. If the same tiny club continuously produced incredible newgens over and over again I would say get it posted as a bug for us, but if it is simply a case of "other" clubs producing them as one-offs then that is just an inevitable result of the statistics. The chances of it being your club are very small, the chances of it being any other club but yours are very large.

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56 minutes ago, bangkonggedek said:

By the way @Weston, what other leagues did you load for your current save? If you included Brazil then Luiz Fernando Moraes could be a decent alternative who can pretty much be an extra hand of decent coach for your youth teams as well. He's usually stay unemployed since the start of the game and no clubs ever seem to bother to hire him in my saves. Sometimes his name won't show up in the Staff Search screen for some reason, so you should manually search his name.

 

Screen Shot 2019-01-24 at 9.56.05 PM.png

I loaded Brazil A, B, and C but I do not see him in my save. He seems a bit young to retire but it's 2022 now so maybe he just dropped out of the game for some reason.

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33 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

I think a little too much emphasis is being placed on the HOYD ahead of facilities etc. here.

What I'm confused about is when the players actually join the club. People say HOYD influences who comes in your youth intake, but other people say they're already at the club at younger levels not shown in-game. I'm an American manager and my youth intake has Americans in it. Managing a lower-league Italian club, surely this is influenced by me somehow, so they couldn't have been in the younger levels prior to my arrival.

36 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

To hark back to my comments of 2017, the HOYD will influence only the "star" or "freak" newgens when it comes to ability.

Can you please elaborate on what this means? I'm confused.

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3 minutes ago, Weston said:

What I'm confused about is when the players actually join the club. People say HOYD influences who comes in your youth intake, but other people say they're already at the club at younger levels not shown in-game. I'm an American manager and my youth intake has Americans in it. Managing a lower-league Italian club, surely this is influenced by me somehow, so they couldn't have been in the younger levels prior to my arrival.

It is worked out on the day of creation for a simulated academy process.

3 minutes ago, Weston said:

Can you please elaborate on what this means? I'm confused.

The HOYD will not influence every newgen coming through your club, only some of them.

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10 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

It is worked out on the day of creation for a simulated academy process.

I see, so it doesn't account for the fact that there was no American influence prior. Honestly I wish that the youth levels below U18 were just automatically populated with newgens of the appropriate age from the very start, but I understand this would be taxing on the database.

 

11 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

The HOYD will not influence every newgen coming through your club, only some of them.

But are you saying he only influences the good ones, or the good ones you get are the ones that he influenced, and the others were not influenced?

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9 minutes ago, Weston said:

I see, so it doesn't account for the fact that there was no American influence prior. Honestly I wish that the youth levels below U18 were just automatically populated with newgens of the appropriate age from the very start, but I understand this would be taxing on the database.

Due to child protection laws the age at which we can have players in the game is limited. And to be fair I don't know of a single First Team Manager that is concerned with specific U-11 players (the process as a whole perhaps).

9 minutes ago, Weston said:

But are you saying he only influences the good ones, or the good ones you get are the ones that he influenced, and the others were not influenced?

A bit of both. His influence is restricted to the best of the crop, but not all of the best, and to "freak" newgens. Freak newgens are those that break the mould, perhaps they come through considerably more developed (irrespective of PA) than their peers, perhaps they come through with a very specific set of attributes, etc. 

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1 minute ago, Seb Wassell said:

Due to child protection laws the age at which we can have players is the game is limited.

I know the laws make it so you can't have underage real teens represented in-game, but these wouldn't be real - if we can have 15 year old newgens why can't we have 14 year old newgens? Surely the laws don't apply to fake, fictional, generated people?

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28 minutes ago, Weston said:

What I'm confused about is when the players actually join the club. People say HOYD influences who comes in your youth intake, but other people say they're already at the club at younger levels not shown in-game. I'm an American manager and my youth intake has Americans in it. Managing a lower-league Italian club, surely this is influenced by me somehow, so they couldn't have been in the younger levels prior to my arrival.

Can you please elaborate on what this means? I'm confused.

It means probably that the thousands of u-16, u-15 players are 'already' in the game but on intake date, the game using facilities, club reputations, youth recruitment are distributing them between clubs.

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56 minuti fa, Weston ha scritto:

I know the laws make it so you can't have underage real teens represented in-game, but these wouldn't be real - if we can have 15 year old newgens why can't we have 14 year old newgens? Surely the laws don't apply to fake, fictional, generated people?

I have seen a 14yo in my intake (well he made 15 few times later). And i think 14 is the lowest age avaible.

I think newgens minimum age follows different national rules 

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3 hours ago, Weston said:

 

His media handling style is "volatile." I can't imagine why my HOYD would ever interact with the media, but this does seem to indicate a short fuse, which I suppose could be bad in general. Does having a HOYD who is quick to snap actually make youth players the same way, or would it beat them into submission? Not sure how psychologically we're breaking things down haha

I'd really love to hire Biasotto as my AM, but he will likely not want that role, in which case I would make him my HOYD, however he's not currently interested. Perhaps once his contract runs out he will be, or they will renew and I will move on. Costanzi isn't perfect, but as you can see he seems to be an improvement on my current HOYD in every way except for WWY by a very small margin, and, apparently, temperament. From what I can tell he is the best that comes up when sorted by people actually interested in signing.

Does reputation really have any effect? Do players work harder for a staff member they see as more reputable? I guess when thinking about the HOYD as simply promoting players already in the U15s as opposed to actually finding and convincing entirely new kids to sign his reputation feels less important. Also, I don't play with wingers, so I'd love to have an HOYD with a preferred narrow formation stop bringing in wingers, but it seems like that theory has been debunked so I don't really bother paying attention to it.

 

You don't have to worry about him speaking to the media, but the Volatile label means he has a poor temperament which can be passed on. I mean, you already knew that, but it could be even worse (at least he's not "short tempered"), and other stuff could be better (he's not "media friendly" so he's also got fairly poor controversy that could be passed on)

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It seems hard this version to even get half decent youth team players through, I get one half decent guy every 5 years or so, no real superstars yet I have top facilities etc.

This guy is my HOYD :

image.thumb.png.510350568c90646ddff9d6a2471c9b47.png

Is he just plain rubbish?

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So is a Model Professional (or Driven, Iron Willed...) HoYD with average WWY, JPA and JPP a better choice than one with high attributes but less positive personality?

If so, I don't really get the logic... He's a COACH (and a talent scout?), not a parent or a tutor! His job is to look for the best available young talents and nurture them on the pitch for a professional career. Personality is important, I know, but even Coach Jesus himself couldn't turn a Joey Barton or a Gazza into a Javier Zanetti...

It keeps on getting confusing: why are there attributes and ratings that "should" mean X, but then means Y and however Z is what you'd really be looking for???

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On 16. prosinca 2017. at 15:31, herne79 said:

Model Citizen, but highly unlikely you'll find one of those.

Model Professional, Professional, Resolute all good options.  Fairly Professional, Spirited can also be good.  But remember, even with a Model Citizen you won't suddenly be churning out loads of highly professional players.  Sure you'll get a few but it's not a magic wand.  Tutoring will always be your friend and also don't forget that your HoYD doubles up as a Youth Team coach, so coaching ability shouldn't be ignored.

Well, if someone is interested, just found a model citizen HoYD who would actually sign for my parma save...

Truls Jenssen / Tromso, Norway!!!

also found two more great guys available on a free transfer:

Bernhard Peters and Luiz Fernando Moraes!!!

that german guy kills lol

cheers!

 

 

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So I should pick Speakmann over Costanzi then? The highlighted attributes average the same, and Speakman has better motivation, determination, and level of discipline. Do those attributes have an impact, I imagine? Speakman's media handling is evasive/reserved versus Constanzi's volatile. Should I be concerned that Speakmann is foreign (my club is Italian)?

Speakman has better coaching attributes also but it doesn't look like the HOYD actually works in training?

image.png

Edited by Weston

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HOYD (only) works in training the youth teams of your club. Check the Coach sub-menu in the Training tab of your Under 20s & Under 18s teams, then click the Edit Coach Assignments button. The HOYD should be available for any assignment.

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7 hours ago, bangkonggedek said:

HOYD (only) works in training the youth teams of your club. Check the Coach sub-menu in the Training tab of your Under 20s & Under 18s teams, then click the Edit Coach Assignments button. The HOYD should be available for any assignment.

Got it, I actually checked there but missed his name. I see it now. In that case then it seems Speakman is definitely best, even if I'm a bit worried that hiring an Englishman in that position will bring a bunch of non-EU Brits into my academy, which could fill up my allotted slots for squad registration...

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If I recall correctly his nationality won't play any part in determining the nationalities of your youth intakes. From my experience, at least.

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2 minutes ago, bangkonggedek said:

If I recall correctly his nationality won't play any part in determining the nationalities of your youth intakes. From my experience, at least.

But I'm an American manager at a small Italian club and we suddenly now have American youth players, so there must be a connection, no? Thankfully they all have EU second nationalities so far.

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Just now, Weston said:

But I'm an American manager at a small Italian club and we suddenly now have American youth players, so there must be a connection, no? Thankfully they all have EU second nationalities so far.

True, but it's our own nationality (the Manager) that occasionally do have an influence to the youth intakes' nationalities, not the HOYD. Usually my HOYD are either English, Dutch, German or Brazilian yet I never seemed to get any youth players of those nationalities coming into the club unless there's an affiliated club from those nations... While on the other hand as I'm always an Indonesian manager, somehow my Portuguese, Germany, Italian, etc. side sometimes had a few of quality Indonesian players from the academy with potentials to play in decent European clubs, which is ludicrous to be perfectly honest :D

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On 27/01/2019 at 19:02, Weston said:

even if I'm a bit worried that hiring an Englishman in that position will bring a bunch of non-EU Brits into my academy, which could fill up my allotted slots for squad registration...

As mentioned, nationality doesn't affect youths. But even if it did, they'd obviously have a second nationality (Italy/EU) since they're coming from your academy or affiliates. And in any case, players under the age of 18 wouldn't even be allowed to transfer abroad unless they move between EU countries and/or have an EU nationality.

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13 minutes ago, keijo said:

As mentioned, nationality doesn't affect youths. But even if it did, they'd obviously have a second nationality (Italy/EU) since they're coming from your academy or affiliates. And in any case, players under the age of 18 wouldn't even be allowed to transfer abroad unless they move between EU countries and/or have an EU nationality.

In the past I recall having a transfer fall through because, unbeknownst to me, I had 1-2 non-EU players promoted from my academy. Maybe they've fixed that now? But I definitely seem to remember it happening to me before, which is why I'm wary now.

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7 hours ago, Weston said:

In the past I recall having a transfer fall through because, unbeknownst to me, I had 1-2 non-EU players promoted from my academy. Maybe they've fixed that now? But I definitely seem to remember it happening to me before, which is why I'm wary now.

If in Italy, I think you have a limit of two non-EUs per year so the promoted youths may have taken your spots that year.

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1 hour ago, Snorks said:

If in Italy, I think you have a limit of two non-EUs per year so the promoted youths may have taken your spots that year.

They did, that's what I'm saying. I don't even think they'd been promoted.

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