I am wrong? Really?

[ilkork]

My player doesn't play well so i had the following chat with him:





Really? He provided "plenty" of assists? My criticism is "unwarranted"? REALLY?
Let's check his form:


What is he? Stupid?

And for those of you who might say "why don't you share your tactics with us to check if there are problems" i will respond with this: My tactics are almost perfect!

[Cougar2010]

No such thing as perfect tactics, they simply don't exist.

In terms of your OP though I suspect its down to his personality and maybe your rep/level of discipline.  Not that it matters though given he is leaving.

[KlaaZ]

To be fair, he does provide a LOT of key passes per game. It may just be that your other players aren't finishing the chances he provides?

[ilkork]

17 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

No such thing as perfect tactics, they simply don't exist.

In terms of your OP though I suspect its down to his personality and maybe your rep/level of discipline.  Not that it matters though given he is leaving.

Well, not perfect, nothing is perfect. "Almost" perfect.
He isn't leaving, he is on loan at my club but has a transfer arranged to join my club at the end of the year.

So, the in-game F. Pardo is like "the unknown manager is giving me $h1t"? Cause i selected Sunday-League footballer with Continental Pro.

EDIT: My stats:

[Cougar2010]

3 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

To be fair, he does provide a LOT of key passes per game. It may just be that your other players aren't finishing the chances he provides?

KlaaZ could be onto something thinking about it.

[ilkork]

4 minutes ago, KlaaZ said:

To be fair, he does provide a LOT of key passes per game. It may just be that your other players aren't finishing the chances he provides?

I don't know... Maybe yes?

[warlock]

Key passes are pretty good, and so is his pass completion rate, but when he starts he's rated 8.9, 9.3, 6.9, 7.9, 7.3, and you're telling him he's underperforming. I'd be pretty ticked off, too.

[herne79]

Strictly in terms of the conversation, the player is saying he's made plenty of assists when he clearly hasn't, which I think is what ilkork is driving at here - it's an apparent disconnect between stats and conversation.

From that perspective, it might be worth raising here, with a game save from just before the conversation took place.

[ilkork]

13 minutes ago, warlock said:

Key passes are pretty good, and so is his pass completion rate, but when he starts he's rated 8.9, 9.3, 6.9, 7.9, 7.3, and you're telling him he's underperforming. I'd be pretty ticked off, too.

Really?
1) He hasn't scored a goal or give an assist in the last month.
2) His last goal/assist was one month ago and it was in a FRIENDLY (11.10.2015).
3) His last goal in a league/cup/continental competitions was 2 MONTHS AGO (19.09.2015).
4) He doesn't even have 1 ASSIST so far.
5) He is a winger. What do you expect from wingers? GOALS AND ASSISTS!
Yes, he may be contributing a little, but he is a winger and i have higher expectations from a WINGER.

6) A player with a "Rotation" status has to perform as a sub as well.

[ilkork]

10 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Strictly in terms of the conversation, the player is saying he's made plenty of assists when he clearly hasn't, which I think is what ilkork is driving at here - it's an apparent disconnect between stats and conversation.

Thank you! That was my point.

[warlock]

Fair point. But I believe (I mostly play FMT where you can't have conversations) the interaction starts with "Criticise player", and then you pick the specifics. And I'd never criticise a player with his record. Obviously, ilkork has different standards.

[ilkork]

2 hours ago, Cougar2010 said:

In terms of your OP though I suspect its down to his personality and maybe your rep/level of discipline.

He is a bit controversial though...

 

[ilkork]

2 minutes ago, warlock said:

Fair point. But I believe (I mostly play FMT where you can't have conversations) the interaction starts with "Criticise player", and then you pick the specifics. And I'd never criticise a player with his record. Obviously, ilkork has different standards.

That's true. The conversation started with Interaction->Warn Player->Criticise Recent Form.
As for your last sentence, it really depends on which team you manage. In a team like Olympiacos, you are expected to dominate every match (except Ch. League matches).
My other wingers are doing great. And for a player who isn't in my main XI and with his appearances, i would expect more.

[fmfan74]

From memory you can see each players key passes using video footage per game.  It has footage for each player for all games played.   In your situation you would want to observe these video footage scenarios per game before showing him the finger.

For me reading stats wasn't enough so I went into the players profile can't remember which tab it is and you can watch all his good and bad situations for the last game played.

I also use more smoother chit chats with my players praising more often than criticizing them as that ends up worse.

Training in cutting your players mistakes is mandatory for me.  No mater how hard I tweaked my tactics and TI's I found a workaround reducing mistakes by training them out.  One of my central defenders felt like he was a sniper taking long shots when tactics and ti's were configured so that he wasn't to be.  So I had to get a coach to get him not to think Mondays are Fridays. 

[lemeuresnew]

i think the form talk option is always a bit dodgy, and varies A LOT more for different personalities. Talking about the last game is much safer, so i always try to do this before a form option comes into play. Not an answer to the problem, just an easier option in general. Not just for the game but life lol

[enigmatic]

He's played a handful of games and has a 7.3 average rating and several key passes per game and you're giving him a warning for not getting any assists? Why were you expecting anything other than a negative reaction?

Technically the dialogue isn't great because he hasn't provided "plenty of assists" apart from in friendlies, but it's definitely not the player who's being unreasonable here...

[rafaelbenitez]

Looks like you've found the FM equivalent of Donald Trump

"Hey Felipe, you've got 0 assists in competitive games this season."

"FAKE NEWS!"

[ilkork]

16 hours ago, lemeuresnew said:

i think the form talk option is always a bit dodgy, and varies A LOT more for different personalities. Talking about the last game is much safer, so i always try to do this before a form option comes into play. Not an answer to the problem, just an easier option in general. Not just for the game but life lol

Thanks for the advice.

[ilkork]

4 hours ago, enigmatic said:

He's played a handful of games and has a 7.3 average rating and several key passes per game and you're giving him a warning for not getting any assists? Why were you expecting anything other than a negative reaction?

Technically the dialogue isn't great because he hasn't provided "plenty of assists" apart from in friendlies, but it's definitely not the player who's being unreasonable here...

Ok then, i guess, i have to treat him like a child in 3rd grade because of the "faulty" dialogue, "go Felipe, you are doing great!"

[ilkork]

32 minutes ago, rafaelbenitez said:

Looks like you've found the FM equivalent of Donald Trump

"Hey Felipe, you've got 0 assists in competitive games this season."

"FAKE NEWS!"

[ilkork]

19 hours ago, fmfan74 said:

From memory you can see each players key passes using video footage per game.  It has footage for each player for all games played.   In your situation you would want to observe these video footage scenarios per game before showing him the finger.

For me reading stats wasn't enough so I went into the players profile can't remember which tab it is and you can watch all his good and bad situations for the last game played.

I also use more smoother chit chats with my players praising more often than criticizing them as that ends up worse.

Training in cutting your players mistakes is mandatory for me.  No mater how hard I tweaked my tactics and TI's I found a workaround reducing mistakes by training them out.  One of my central defenders felt like he was a sniper taking long shots when tactics and ti's were configured so that he wasn't to be.  So I had to get a coach to get him not to think Mondays are Fridays. 

Do you know what i realized just now? If he had at least 2 assists, none of this would have happened.
No need for a thread, no wasting your time...

You are right about some things though.
1) I never "watch his good and bad situations for the last game", too lazy to do that.
2) I don't use "smoother chit chats". I just praise everybody at the same time once a month and criticize anyone who hasn't played well, a striker who hasn't scored goals or a winger who hasn't provided "plenty" of assists.
3) You are right about preferred moves.
It's just that, because i am dealing with, let me say "kids aged 20-24" who can, for example, see their dribbling go up one point, i prefer to have a player's dribbling going to 14 from 13 and AFTER that i am going to teach him a preferred move, because most of my players have heavy workload.

Anyway, thanks for the advice.

[Cougar2010]

3 hours ago, ilkork said:

Ok then, i guess, i have to treat him like a child in 3rd grade because of the "faulty" dialogue, "go Felipe, you are doing great!"

No but you have to treat him fairly.

As has been pointed out he isn't playing badly and is providing passes that lead to chances.  Put yourself in his position rather than throwing your toys out of the pram.

[ilkork]

1 hour ago, Cougar2010 said:

No but you have to treat him fairly.

As has been pointed out he isn't playing badly and is providing passes that lead to chances.  Put yourself in his position rather than throwing your toys out of the pram.

You are 75% right.
I give the other 25% to myself cause i am arrogant

Anyway, I've seen some improvement:

[MBarbaric]

indeed, the thing with conversations is that conversation that went well (player happy about your comment) isn't necessary going to spur the player to perform better. it might actually make him complacent and perform worse. likewise, player angered by your comment might perform better. depends on personality i guess and circumstances and luck.

[Halofon]

Well tbh those conversation like this are often not statistically accurate.

I would like to speak to a player in person. IRL I would argument the heck out of them.

Here I am tied by stupid options

[fmfan74]

I'll say this at the very least.  If i am going to train my players to increase their stats at maximum rate it will be when they are in there teens for e.g. 16 to 22.  anything above that won't increase at a quicker rate compared to a newbie.  But then again it all depends which coaches you have and how good they are with training youngsters let alone one of the most important is to have them guided by senior players who are older that can teach them a thing or two.

I'm not saying that early 20's players can't be trained but their rate wont be as quick as a youngster in his teens.  I push hard to get young guys learning the moves i want them to for my formations. Critical.  Again if you want your players dribbling well many attribute factors play a role like Decisions, Passing, Vision, Crossing, Dribbling. for wingers that is let alone other attributes i have missed.   I have been looking at my players mistakes lately and seeing where things are going wrong.

 

Go PAOK -)

[ilkork]

14 minutes ago, fmfan74 said:

I'll say this at the very least.  If i am going to train my players to increase their stats at maximum rate it will be when they are in there teens for e.g. 16 to 22.  anything above that won't increase at a quicker rate compared to a newbie.  But then again it all depends which coaches you have and how good they are with training youngsters let alone one of the most important is to have them guided by senior players who are older that can teach them a thing or two.

I'm not saying that early 20's players can't be trained but their rate wont be as quick as a youngster in his teens.  I push hard to get young guys learning the moves i want them to for my formations. Critical.  Again if you want your players dribbling well many attribute factors play a role like Decisions, Passing, Vision, Crossing, Dribbling. for wingers that is let alone other attributes i have missed.   I have been looking at my players mistakes lately and seeing where things are going wrong.

Well, here's the deal. I have this guy who is my main AMC, Advanced Playmaker->Attack and i want his dribbling(now at 15.0) and his passing(now at 15.2) to reach 16. When that happens (15.8 at least for both attributes) i am going to teach him to try killer balls often.

 

 

14 minutes ago, fmfan74 said:

Go PAOK -)

Hahahaha

[fmfan74]

Yes I think 15 is good enough now to train for killer through balls.  I have seen it on some player of mine who has 14.  I also make sure what character attributes they have.  Are they selfish etc.. that kind of thing.  I also focus on team attributes. 

[ilkork]

44 minutes ago, fmfan74 said:

Yes I think 15 is good enough now to train for killer through balls.  I have seen it on some player of mine who has 14.  I also make sure what character attributes they have.  Are they selfish etc.. that kind of thing.  I also focus on team attributes. 

Focusing on team attributes is good, but you always need a (at least one in my opinion) selfish player who will win the game for you.
I like my players to have Determination >=14 but i would still buy that super-duper winger with 10-12 determination or 8 for stamina/work rate (rare occurrences and only if he is TOP level).