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What do you consider to choose which players to get rid of? For me a player must be at least 2 and a half stars to remain into the team,if low then i will try to sell them. It is a good method?

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4 minutes ago, foskikaiser92 said:

What do you consider to choose which players to get rid of? For me a player must be at least 2 and a half stars to remain into the team,if low then i will try to sell them. It is a good method?


Its a method but not a good one.

You also need to be looking at attributes (especially for the position & role the player plays), hidden attributes & personality.

 

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Just now, Cougar2010 said:


Its a method but not a good one.

You also need to be looking at attributes (especially for the position & role the player plays), hidden attributes & personality.

 

More precisely?

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Just now, foskikaiser92 said:

More precisely?

Stars give you a general overview of how good a player is in terms of CA but thats all it is, an overview.

A) Attributes

There can be various differences between stars & attributes which make a player look & play worse than he should for his star rating.  It could be something obvious like a good DC having a low attribute in tackling or marking.  It could be that a player can play several positions meaning that his CA is stretched over more attributes so overall they are all a few points lower than what you would expect for the number of stars.  Finally you should consider a player's weak foot as that also costs CA and is part of the star rating.  A two footed player in an attacking role is ok but a two footed GK or DC will probably underperform a little.

 

B) Personality

Good strong personalities are easier to motivate, don't crack under pressure & are capable of raising their game when they go behind.  You are looking for higher levels of determination (Only one which is visible), professionalism, pressure etc

 

C) Hidden Attributes

Goes hand in hand with personality but here I would include those that don't effect their personality.  Consistency the main one.

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7 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

Stars give you a general overview of how good a player is in terms of CA but thats all it is, an overview.

A) Attributes

There can be various differences between stars & attributes which make a player look & play worse than he should for his star rating.  It could be something obvious like a good DC having a low attribute in tackling or marking.  It could be that a player can play several positions meaning that his CA is stretched over more attributes so overall they are all a few points lower than what you would expect for the number of stars.  Finally you should consider a player's weak foot as that also costs CA and is part of the star rating.  A two footed player in an attacking role is ok but a two footed GK or DC will probably underperform a little.

 

B) Personality

Good strong personalities are easier to motivate, don't crack under pressure & are capable of raising their game when they go behind.  You are looking for higher levels of determination (Only one which is visible), professionalism, pressure etc

 

C) Hidden Attributes

Goes hand in hand with personality but here I would include those that don't effect their personality.  Consistency the main one.

Attributes is the most difficult part to find

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In addition to what he said, you also have other considerations.  You might have a 2.5 star player but he's integrated into the team cohesion and is fluent in all your tactics; you can replace him with a higher-star player but the new guy won't know your tactics, hurt your team cohesion, not blend in and actually perform worse.  

I think the better approach is to at first ignore the star rating ask yourself if this guy has the attributes, position skills, personality, system fit, system familiarity, actual performance, wages, etc., that makes you want to keep him, then look at the star rating a something that might tip the scale if you're still on the fence.  Also, keep in mind that star ratings are inaccurate even with good scouts.  Your assistant manager might think he's only 2.5 stars but your scout might judge him as 3 stars (set up a custom view for your squad that has both your assistant coach's opinion of the player's current and potential and ability AND your scout's view of his current and potential ability, they are not always the same).

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4 minutes ago, b28937 said:

In addition to what he said, you also have other considerations.  You might have a 2.5 star player but he's integrated into the team cohesion and is fluent in all your tactics; you can replace him with a higher-star player but the new guy won't know your tactics, hurt your team cohesion, not blend in and actually perform worse.  

I think the better approach is to at first ignore the star rating ask yourself if this guy has the attributes, position skills, personality, system fit, system familiarity, actual performance, wages, etc., that makes you want to keep him, then look at the star rating a something that might tip the scale if you're still on the fence.  Also, keep in mind that star ratings are inaccurate even with good scouts.  Your assistant manager might think he's only 2.5 stars but your scout might judge him as 3 stars (set up a custom view for your squad that has both your assistant coach's opinion of the player's current and potential and ability AND your scout's view of his current and potential ability, they are not always the same).

And there is a way to do it correctly?i'm not so clever in assessing too many things like that.

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Stars are just a very rough guide. If a long-serving player has a low star rating but is still performing well for your team in your tactical system, why get rid of them?

Let me tell you a story about a striker I had at Romford in the English lower leagues back in FM13. I started off with him in the Isthmian North (the 8th level), and he would score goal after goal after goal over the next six seasons - 126 in 220 games, to be exact - as we made it up to the Conference South (the 6th level).

In his sixth and final season with us, this striker scored 19 goals in 31 league games. We finished quite low down the table, but without him, we could easily have been relegated. Try telling that to my assistant manager. He reckoned that he was merely a 'decent player' for the level below us and rated him at 0.5 star, even though he was by far and away our top scorer.

Why did he do so well despite being rated so lowly? Attributes-wise, for a Conference South striker, he had reasonable Finishing and good Composure, so even though he was not a particularly pacey poacher, he was still a dependable one. Other decent attributes (Strength, Teamwork, etc) made him capable of playing as a deep-lying forward as well. He also had a Fairly Professional personality, which made him an ideal tutor for the youth player who would ultimately succeed him as our first-choice striker.

Even though he was now 30 years old, I would've happily kept him on for at least a couple more years. The only reason he left there and then was because he had repeatedly refused to sign a new contract. I loved that guy so much that I brought him back to Romford a year later as a scout (he retired without joining another team), and I also took him to my next two clubs, but that's another story.

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4 minutes ago, CFuller said:

Stars are just a very rough guide. If a long-serving player has a low star rating but is still performing well for your team in your tactical system, why get rid of them?

Let me tell you a story about a striker I had at Romford in the English lower leagues back in FM13. I started off with him in the Isthmian North (the 8th level), and he would score goal after goal after goal over the next six seasons - 126 in 220 games, to be exact - as we made it up to the Conference South (the 6th level).

In his sixth and final season with us, this striker scored 19 goals in 31 league games. We finished quite low down the table, but without him, we could easily have been relegated. Try telling that to my assistant manager. He reckoned that he was merely a 'decent player' for the level below us and rated him at 0.5 star, even though he was by far and away our top scorer.

Why did he do so well despite being rated so lowly? Attributes-wise, for a Conference South striker, he had reasonable Finishing and good Composure, so even though he was not a particularly pacey poacher, he was still a dependable one. Other decent attributes (Strength, Teamwork, etc) made him capable of playing as a deep-lying forward as well. He also had a Fairly Professional personality, which made him an ideal tutor for the youth player who would ultimately succeed him as our first-choice striker.

Even though he was now 30 years old, I would've happily kept him on for at least a couple more years. The only reason he left there and then was because he had repeatedly refused to sign a new contract. I loved that guy so much that I brought him back to Romford a year later as a scout (he retired without joining another team), and I also took him to my next two clubs, but that's another story.

So i can manually compare key attributes to average level of the league to understand better if he is good enough for the level

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12 minutes ago, foskikaiser92 said:

So i can manually compare key attributes to average level of the league to understand better if he is good enough for the level

You could, and arguably should, do that. I'd suggest focussing mainly on key attributes for roles that your player(s) would normally play in.

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30 minutes ago, foskikaiser92 said:

And there is a way to do it correctly?i'm not so clever in assessing too many things like that.

 

The easiest things are personality and attributes like consistency, important matches, dressing room fit, etc., which you will find on the player's profile and scouting report.  You might have a 2.5 star guy who is resolute, is very consistent, relishes big matches, and fits in well with the personality of your squad.  Those would be big factors weighing toward keeping the guy.  If you only look at his star rating and get rid of him, you might bring in a 3.5 star guy who is inconsistent, dreads playing in big matches, and will have trouble fitting into your squad.  So the 3.5 star guy might have a higher star rating and better attributes, but he'll be nervous on the pitch and will show up for some games and but not others (inconsistent).  

Then you can go to the player under menu Development>Tactics and it will show his tactical familiarity.  The 2.5 star guy might be totally fluid in every aspect of your tactic, whereas the 3.5 star guy will come in and be awkward with your formation, passing style, etc.  Eventually the 3.5 star guy will learn the tactic, but you might spend half a season with him hurting the team overall despite his better ratings.

With attributes, you want to look at which ones are important to your style of play.  For example, the 3.5 star guy might have that high overall rating because he can really cross the ball, but if you play a narrow tactic without wingers, that crossing skill isn't going to matter much if you're playing his as an AMC.  Also, for example, a right full back might be 3.5 stars because he's got great attacking skills, but if your tactic calls for a defensive full back, then you might be better off with a 2.5 star guy whose strengths are positioning, marking, and tackling.  Your tactic might also call for a holding defensive midfielder who is going to stick to the middle and defend the back line.  A 2.5 star guy might be excellent at that, but a 3.5 star guy might be a very aggressive ball winning midfielder type who is going to be running all over the place and ruining your tactical shape.

And then with wages, your 2.5 star guy will probably be reasonable, but the 3.5 star guy will probably demand more yet not be worth the extra money for the types of reasons stated above.

Also, in addition to the star rating, the scouting report will have an entry for current ability (e.g., decent second division striker) and potential ability (e.g., good second division striker).  I have a 4-star striker who is described as a decent player for most first division sides and a 3.5 star striker who is a decent player as well.  I also have a 3 star striker who is a leading second division player who performs far better than the other two.  Regardless of the stars or even your scouts' evaluation of their current division ability, there are a lot of other factors at play.

So like the first poster said, making decisions based on stars is one method but not necessarily a good method.  Im my opinion, finding players who have good personalities, fit my system, and can be kept as a stable part of my roster is more important than looking at the star ratings.  Sure, I'll take a 4.5 star player over a 2 star player every time, but when your talking 2.5 or 3.5, I think all these other factors are more important. 

Finally, when it really comes down to it, the difference between a 2.5 star player and a 3 star player might be a few attributes rated 14 instead of 13 or 12 instead of 10.  Given the incredible number of factors that go into what happens on the pitch, how much difference is it going to make if you're player's decisions are 11 instead of 10, etc.  

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sell players that don't perform to your standards, or aren't consistent.  I ignore star ratings, just work on my opinion of the player and if they are progressing well in training. 

Build a team that has the right mentality,and you will do better (in theory)  a squad of determined players will probably perform better than a squad of higher ability but lower determination... 

I always look for high determination, as it is, imho, a lot easier to challenge these players to do better than it is to try n baby/encourage someone lower to play to their best

here's my current 1st team squad

determ.png

Edited by rinso

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2 minutes ago, rinso said:

sell players that don't perform to your standards, or aren't consistent.  I ignore star ratings, just work on my opinion of the player and if they are progressing well in training. 

Build a team that has the right mentality,and you will do better (in theory)  a squad of determined players will probably perform better than a squad of higher ability but lower determination... 

I always look for high determination, as it is, imho, a lot easier to challenge these players to do better than it is to try n baby/encourage someone lower to play to their best

In all careers i see in the comments users that with a glance say if the player is good or not for the level and i don't understand how they do it. So good experts

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There's no such thing as being an expert, because you don't know how players are going to develop or what injuries they're going to have etc. 

Maybe the careers you're looking at managers use tools like Genie or fmrte to make their squads the best.

At the end of the day, it comes down to your opinion of the player, and what works for you. 

Example.

2 players in your squad, one is 33 other is 22. (both play same position)

coaches say to get rid of 33 year old, and to play 22 year old.

33 year old has been in squad for years and has consistently performed, whereas 22 year old when given chances has not performed. 

Which do you keep? 

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8 minutes ago, rinso said:

There's no such thing as being an expert, because you don't know how players are going to develop or what injuries they're going to have etc. 

Maybe the careers you're looking at managers use tools like Genie or fmrte to make their squads the best.

At the end of the day, it comes down to your opinion of the player, and what works for you. 

Example.

2 players in your squad, one is 33 other is 22. (both play same position)

coaches say to get rid of 33 year old, and to play 22 year old.

33 year old has been in squad for years and has consistently performed, whereas 22 year old when given chances has not performed. 

Which do you keep? 

I'd keep the older but how about attributes?

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Attributes don't matter, for me. Pick the player that knows you and your system and performs consistently for you.

I've sold strikers that have been 160 PA +  because they just didn't work in my system when someone 140 CA did. 

For me, it is more important to have a squad that is less in terms of ability but higher in terms of determination.. my management style suits that and I can motivate them more. 

what level are you managing at? 

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My club is Rich and can afford to be lazy with this but i release youth intake players if their PA is below 3 stars. I do however mark them so if i notice that they have gone on to better things ill know and just buy them if i need to.

However if i was a small club i think i would pay more attention to attributes.

 

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I struggled with this last year and what I did was to create a spreadsheet that I could feed into the players' stats and then weight them based on the attributes needed for each role. So an advanced playmaker would have a higher weighting on passing and vision, less on dribbling and none on marking etc. which then gives players a rating out of 100 for each role. This allows me to 'see' at a glance where the players play best, whether they fit into my style of play and where they need improvement.

Previous instalments I've been able to do this by looking at the players stats themselves but I haven't played properly for a few years and I've been left behind a little.

From a real world example look at the difference between say Andy Carroll and Sergio Aguero. On paper Aguero is by far and away the better striker but play Carroll in a role he is suited for (target man?) and swing crosses into him and he will perform superbly. Play him as a role that doesn't suit him and he'll be useless. Play Aguero as a target man and he'll do a job but nowhere near as good as Carroll.

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4 hours ago, foskikaiser92 said:

Thank you to all i'm going to uninstall...too hard. One player must be a wizard to have success

So you open a thread asking a question and when people try to help you say you're going to quit? You don't have to be a wizard, you just need to know what type of player fits your system and the position you need them. The best way to do that is to look at their attributes.

It sounds as though you're saying SI should do away with attributes and judge every player between 1-5 stars and whilst that may save them a hell of a lot of money and time, who would feel any satisfaction from the game?

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27 minutes ago, wattzy said:

So you open a thread asking a question and when people try to help you say you're going to quit? You don't have to be a wizard, you just need to know what type of player fits your system and the position you need them. The best way to do that is to look at their attributes.

It sounds as though you're saying SI should do away with attributes and judge every player between 1-5 stars and whilst that may save them a hell of a lot of money and time, who would feel any satisfaction from the game?

I only want at the beginning of the season to assess which players remain and which have to be sold. Team report says me this but many people said me that isn't correct and not to follow it so i have to do by myself and i don't find the tools to see with a glance which transfers my team needs

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You can set it up your own views any way you like. Views that shows you anything you need to know at a glance.

If you don't want to setup your own views then you can borrow from someone else. Like Rashidi.

The linked video contains links to the views that Rashidi uses, they will show you most of what you need at a glance. You can even modify them (Like I have) to show more of the info you want. In the picture bellow I have highlighted the link were you can download the views.

rashidiview.thumb.jpg.042a65f7c29dca8ee376449b3e8a9fc6.jpg

The link bellow explains how you make/import views (Just replace FM16 with FM17):

https://mrkeysirensie.wordpress.com/2015/10/29/fm16-custom-screen-views/

 

 

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15 hours ago, foskikaiser92 said:

I only want at the beginning of the season to assess which players remain and which have to be sold. Team report says me this but many people said me that isn't correct and not to follow it so i have to do by myself and i don't find the tools to see with a glance which transfers my team needs

But how is this is any way in line with what a football manager does? Do you think when a manager takes over a club he immediately asks for a coach's opinion on how good each player is, and then proceeds to sell players on just that basis?

You asked a question as to how people judge their players. Nobody is telling you that's the way you have to do it, but if you want a real indication of how well a player fits your system you will need to look further than the star rating.

Edited by wattzy

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It's really quite simple when you look at it. Don't complicate matters, but you need to analyse the evidence and come to a conclusion. The more often you do it (i.e. the more FM you play), the easier and quicker this process will become, which is why you see some people saying that they can assess a player in a second ;)

 

What do you want a player to be doing in his position? This naturally depends on your tactics, formation, shouts etc. As in real-life, players who are effective in one team or formation may not be effective in another. Sometimes, a worse player (you can define him as worse by attributes or assistant report or amount of stars or CA) can be more useful to your team than a better one.

 

Is he good enough to be an effective player in your system? Are there any better players in your squad at whatever it is that you want players in that position to be doing? These are all decisions you have to take as a manager. Will you make mistakes? Of course you will, real-life managers do. But if you have an idea on how to reach your aim, then your good decisions will outweigh your bad ones.

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It depends on position, I would never consider a centreback with weak mental attributes and low consistency for example.

However, an AMR/AML with weak mentals, low consistency but great technical/physicals? He's the perfect 1 season stop gap, the reason is because usually any longer than that and things will begin to sour - which has probably happened at his current club and he's available cheaply. 

Overall I don't think a fixed philosophy of who not to sign works, you should have a desired list for what you want in a player, but even negative looking players can work well if you treat it as a short term thing. 

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On 3/15/2017 at 21:24, foskikaiser92 said:

What do you consider to choose which players to get rid of? For me a player must be at least 2 and a half stars to remain into the team,if low then i will try to sell them. It is a good method?

No, it's about the worst possible method.

The star ratings are useful for gauging an overall idea of how good a player is, but they tell you almost nothing about how good that player could be if used correctly.

For example, in one of my long terms saves on FM15 I had a save that started way down about 4 levels below the Conference and took my team all the way to the top of the Premiership. In my first season in the Conference South I had a striker come through my youth system who looked very good for the level. By the next season he'd developed enormously and was rated as 4 stars for my team and he was absolutely banging the goals in.

When we got promoted he was rated somewhere around 2.5 stars.

When we reached League 2 he was around 2 stars.

League 1 dropped him to 1.5 stars.

The Championship dropped him to 1 star.

All that time he was still my first choice striker and was a very consistent goalscorer in every single season. He only lost his place in my starting lineup when we reached the Premiership but he was still a regular off the bench and got his fair share of goals every year until he retired, still at my club and still scoring goals.

The reason it worked is because while his overall rating was very low, he fitted perfectly into my team. He was lightning fast, a great finisher, had good composure and read the game fantastically well so he timed his runs in behind opposition defences to perfection. Sure he couldn't pass, couldn't cross, couldn't tackle, was weak as hell, couldn't jump, couldn't head the ball along with dozens of other failings, but he was exceedingly good at all of the things that mattered for the role I wanted him to be playing.

Star ratings are a starting point but attributes and, more importantly, performance on the pitch are the only true factors that matter.

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I have a 0.5 star player who's best player in my team, was league's top scorer last season aged 32. I also have 3 star defender who's useless. What's the difference between them? My coaches say the first one is consistent and relishes big matches, while the other one is not.

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The star system is not a "holy Grail" in terms of player's ability/potential. It is based on a coach or scout's OPINION of a player, and that depends on their ability. 

It's not black and white in the respect that a scout says a player is 4star player and he will automatically improve your team. 

It's also not a fact that coaches say your player is useless and should be sold if he is performing well, and scoring/assisting etc. 

The reports are there to AID you in making a decision, but at the end of the day, the decision is yours alone. The scouts can be wrong, the coaches can be wrong. The manager can be wrong. Unless you download 3rd party tools, there's no way to know for certain a player's ability or potential 

edit to add, even if you do downoad one of the 3rd party tools and see all the values, there's still no guarantee the players will reach those values... 

Edited by rinso

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