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FootballTrainer

I think NFL Manager would be a hit

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I know there was a SI game back in the days based on NHL and ice hockey. I would love for it for SI to introduce other sport management games (i know it´s not gonna happen). But it would be a interesting buzz with NFL or NHL or NBA manager. Such a game would be a sell out back in the states.

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25 minutes ago, FootballTrainer said:

I know there was a SI game back in the days based on NHL and ice hockey. I would love for it for SI to introduce other sport management games (i know it´s not gonna happen). But it would be a interesting buzz with NFL or NHL or NBA manager. Such a game would be a sell out back in the states.

I think SI have enough on their plate getting FM to where they want it.  There are other developers who do NFL management games especially in the States

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I have played management sims from other developers on some of those sports, and they are never the same. Its not just the quality - its the sport itself. Football is a truly global game - none of those others are. Basketball is close, but its hardly popular in many areas, A lot of major aspects of FM that make many people love it are absent. There is no promotion so you can't take a tiny club and raise them to a major power. There is no continental tournaments of note. Youth development is much different - NFL teams are drafting nearly full formed players, not nurturing superstars from 15 year olds kids. There are only a handful of professional leagues, not hundreds to choose from. So many dynamics change. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't make for good games, but simply that they end up being very different games from Football Manager.

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My gateway drug game for management sims was a game called Baseball Mogul. Very similar to OOTP.

It was packaged with Football Mogul (American football, in this case). 

It was pretty lousy. The main problem is the 16 game season. It's not really enough events to be satisfying. In FM, your team will get 40-50 games/season. In OOTP, you get 162. Basketball and hockey? 82 each.

For a sim, where the only way to measure your progress is by analyzing the automated (or player-directed, but still largely automated) games, 16 is not really enough to give a sense of how your decisions affect the simmed outcomes. It's over before you know it. Further, play calling in American football is different than in any other sport. It's essentially a whole lot of set pieces, one after the other. I suppose you could call every play, or hire coaches to do that, but, at that point, you're in charge of too many little events for it to be any fun. So the granularity of it is deeply flawed. You either have to ignore the fundamental unit of football, the individual play, or be responsible for every single damned one of them.

I see why the idea might be appealing, but, at least in the manifestation I've seen, it didn't add up to a very pleasant experience.

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4 hours ago, FootballTrainer said:

I know there was a SI game back in the days based on NHL and ice hockey. I would love for it for SI to introduce other sport management games (i know it´s not gonna happen). But it would be a interesting buzz with NFL or NHL or NBA manager. Such a game would be a sell out back in the states.

Was? Still is... http://store.steampowered.com/app/301120/

NFL? There is Front Office Football on Steam also, check that out, I like it. It has been around a very long time and is a decent franchise, it is about what anyone could expect from an NFL game. It is amazing to me it has been around for as many years as it has and not many people know about it, so much for the theory it would be a sellout in the states lol.

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Front Office Football 8 recently released is by far the best sports sim behind football manager.  Like FM, it's been 20 years in the making.  Not as pretty as FM and not as many "options" like sending a player on a language course or media interviews, but the core "match engine," player development, and challenge/realism of acquiring players (draft, free agency)  can't be beat.

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7 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

I have played management sims from other developers on some of those sports, and they are never the same. Its not just the quality - its the sport itself. Football is a truly global game - none of those others are. Basketball is close, but its hardly popular in many areas, A lot of major aspects of FM that make many people love it are absent. There is no promotion so you can't take a tiny club and raise them to a major power. There is no continental tournaments of note. Youth development is much different - NFL teams are drafting nearly full formed players, not nurturing superstars from 15 year olds kids. There are only a handful of professional leagues, not hundreds to choose from. So many dynamics change. That doesn't necessarily mean they can't make for good games, but simply that they end up being very different games from Football Manager.


See the aforementioned OOTP (or any other Out Of The Park Development game), pluse Eastside Hockey Manager from SI, which only recently has seen a bit of a reboot after years of absence. At the core of this, this is really a niche thing. How many players/owners does EHM have on Steam? About 50k according to the not fully reliable Steamspy. What makes FM stand out is that it's a football product, and they're fairly clever marketing it as such too with it appearing in general media, rather than gaming ones exclusively. That is naturally the commercial side, it's great that there's despite it all there is also takes on other sports.

If you think it true, it's a bit ironic though. Assuming the sims of each sport were as close to their origins -- the influence of random chance is  nowhere near as high as in football... completely outsiders winning matches in most other team sports are unheard of to the same degree -- or teams being able to win with that one lucky shot. Talking purely the inherent core structure and build of the sports, not outside influences such as salary Caps/budget margins which influence the gap between teams competing and rub off on a competition as such. And the higher the amount of random chance inherent to a sport itself, the less of an enjoyable "gaming" experience a management game should be. At least in a traditionalist gaming sense -- there has always been players that have struggled to cope with the ambiguity of FM as is (helped by lacking and in some instances misleading feedback, mind). Naturally this goes full circle, as it is precisely the reasonable influence ofunpredictability that makes football the world's number one sport (except for those who call it by different names :D ) -- on top of the silly amount of money pumped into it. 

Edited by Svenc

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