Counter pressing football vs Possession football

[jc577]

Are counter pressing and possession football the same thing in fm17 in regard to how to set up a tactic? Currently trying to implement this in my Fulham save with a 4-4-2 but having some difficulty. 

[Fosse]

Counterpressing is without the ball and obviously possession football is with the ball. 

[llama3]

Counter-pressing does also tend to go hand in hand with a high tempo and possession with a lower tempo. Obviously not as simple as that. I must say, 4-4-2 doesn't strike me as a system to try counter-pressing with though.

[cns180784]

11 hours ago, llama3 said:

Counter-pressing does also tend to go hand in hand with a high tempo and possession with a lower tempo. Obviously not as simple as that. I must say, 4-4-2 doesn't strike me as a system to try counter-pressing with though.

Why cant counter pressing work with a 442? i'm sure it can work as long as he's playing with a very high line.

To make counter pressing and a possession based style work i think you can stick to the 442 as its a nicely balanced formation to press all across the pitch and as the idea is to win the ball back high up the pitch, the 2 strikers compliment that idea nicely. Play defensive mentality, very high D line, very fluid team shape with close down much more, prevent short GK distribution and short passing. You could also have retain possession and lower tempo but then you might not be penetrative enough. Also i'd go with dribble less.

I'm no expert but cant see why a 442 wouldnt be ideal for counter pressing.

[Rashidi]

In my opinion @llama3 is correct. A 442 is not suited to counter pressing. In order for you to do it, you would end up doing what @cns180784suggests and that would leave you open. Counter pressing as a strategy was designed with top loaded systems in mind.

[iMan]

Wasn't Roger Schmidt using a counter pressing 4-4-2 with RB Zalzburg and Leverkusen?

Seemed to work quite well for him (until this season).

I'd read up on his tactics if you want to try it with 4-4-2.

[Rashidi]

@iMan Schimdt does not use a 442, he uses a box 4222 system with 2 wide AMs, so his system is overloaded which explains why he can do the high press or I could be mistaken that his box is a more recent variant, but I am certain that their attempts to do a counter pressing system with a 442 are symptomatic of the problems that come with using systems that aren't designed for counter pressing.

[westy8chimp]

I don't believe counter pressing in it's true form is possible. you have a widget with 5 settings for pressing, your formation (top/bottom heavy) and you can choose your Dline. If you go top heavy with much more pressing and high d-line... you can get close, but I feel it's still quite individual - your LW will press the RB... the RB passes to a CB and your striker or two strikers may then press the CB... but you rarely see an overload of players pressing... like 3+ players.

The idea in simple terms is to press in numbers as soon as you lose the ball. If you don't win the ball quickly then fall back into your normal defensive shape.

In FM the transition when you lose possession, to me, seems too quick ... and then you just get individuals pressing (depending on their pressing TI/PI)

i.e. lets say you have 4222 box/wide and your LW loses the ball to the opponent RB ... in FM the player who loses the ball may press from behind/close up, [although usually frozen still for a few seconds allowing the opponent space for his first pass or dribble].... and if you are lucky the next nearest striker or CM will come in to press too. 

IRL with counter press, you would have the nearest 2-3 players and the player who lost the ball (so at least 3 players) charging down the RB... in FM I feel at best you will have the next nearest player... plus the one who lost the ball [once he recovers from his petrificus totalus]

---------

with that in mind it's more by virtue of having players in the immediate vicinity to the ball to press... so a top heavy formation will be far more effective than a flat 442. at least 3-4 players beyond the half way line. 424...4231... 4321 narrow... 4123 wide etc

[Fosse]

Leverkusen (and Monaco this season) pressed in a 424 shape where the wide players would indent towards central areas. It's not really a traditional 442, unfortunately it's impossible to consistently replicate that pressing movement of the AMLR in the match engine, hopefully this area of the game will be redeveloped for FM18.

[yonko]

Here is an interesting question I would ask everyone:

Is Diego Simeone's tactic Counter-Pressing one? Why or why not?

[cns180784]

7 hours ago, westy8chimp said:

IRL with counter press, you would have the nearest 2-3 players and the player who lost the ball (so at least 3 players) charging down the RB... in FM I feel at best you will have the next nearest player... plus the one who lost the ball [once he recovers from his petrificus totalus]

One way to at least cut off the RB's passing options is to use the mark tighter TI. But yea counter pressing in FM wont replicate exactly how its done in real life but hopefully as you said maybe it will get better implemented in the future.

[cns180784]

8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

@iMan Schimdt does not use a 442, he uses a box 4222 system with 2 wide AMs, so his system is overloaded which explains why he can do the high press or I could be mistaken that his box is a more recent variant, but I am certain that their attempts to do a counter pressing system with a 442 are symptomatic of the problems that come with using systems that aren't designed for counter pressing.

Just watched a pretty cool video explaining exactly how this works under Schmidt at Salzburg...here it is, and yea like you said he uses a narrow box 4222.

 

[iMan]

On 13/03/2017 at 15:31, Rashidi said:

@iMan Schimdt does not use a 442, he uses a box 4222 system with 2 wide AMs, so his system is overloaded which explains why he can do the high press or I could be mistaken that his box is a more recent variant, but I am certain that their attempts to do a counter pressing system with a 442 are symptomatic of the problems that come with using systems that aren't designed for counter pressing.

How would you line up that Schmidt shape in FM?

2 players in the cam postion or aml/amr positions?

[azug57]

It is very basic counter presing football style 

Jurgen Klopp style 

 

Team Shape - Fluid

Mentality - Control

Team İnstructions  - look for overlap, play narrower 

Formation 4-4-1-1

[azug57]

 Schimdt' s  442 tactic  same 

 

Team Shape - Fluid

Mentality - Control

Team İnstructions  - look for overlap, play narrower 

Formation 4-4-2

[azug57]

You can add  Push Higher Up Schimdt' s  442 tactic  

 

[azug57]

Schimdt' s  442 tactic  player roles

                                                      Norrmal GK

 

FB Atack                              CD Defence                  CD Defence                        wing back Suport 0r Complate wingback suport

 

Winger Suport                  MC Defence                 Ball wining midfielder Suport                                   Winger Suport

 

                        Trequartista or (Complate Forward atack)                   Advanced Forward

 

Changing positions between winger players themselves

[jorgvandervloed]

Someone put together a thread awhile ago;

 

[azug57]

Bielsa System

 

Team Shape - Flexible

Mentality - Control

Team İnstructions  - look for overlap, Close Down More, Much Higher defensive line, Lover Tempo

Formation 4 - 2 DM - 3 AMC AML- AMR  -1 FW tactic

[jc577]

Just wanna give this a quick bump..  been reading up on RB Leipzig and how they counter-press - it's a lot more organised than how Klopp's teams press, or at least I'm led to believe show. Their 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 becomes extremely narrow as the ball-near winger presses his opposite number against the flank and uses his cover shadow to block passes inside. The ball-far winger comes inside, abandoning the wing and taking up a central position, causing central overloads meaning if the opposition try to switch the play there is a strong possibility they will win the ball and launch an attack. Is the current ME too limited to counter-press in this way; in a 4-4-2? 

[Cleon]

5 hours ago, jc577 said:

Just wanna give this a quick bump..  been reading up on RB Leipzig and how they counter-press - it's a lot more organised than how Klopp's teams press, or at least I'm led to believe show. Their 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 becomes extremely narrow as the ball-near winger presses his opposite number against the flank and uses his cover shadow to block passes inside. The ball-far winger comes inside, abandoning the wing and taking up a central position, causing central overloads meaning if the opposition try to switch the play there is a strong possibility they will win the ball and launch an attack. Is the current ME too limited to counter-press in this way; in a 4-4-2? 

The ME is limited with pressing full stop imo. In FM terms pressing is all or nothing. Sure people believe they can create different pressing styles but really you can't, we don't have enough options and settings to create a sophisticated pressing system. A lot of things in FM are complex but pressing isn't one of them sadly, its very black and white. It's all or nothing with little variation and it doesn't matter what you try and do pressing is the same, you can't create a different style of it.

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Cleon said:

The ME is limited with pressing full stop imo. In FM terms pressing is all or nothing. Sure people believe they can create different pressing styles but really you can't, we don't have enough options and settings to create a sophisticated pressing system. A lot of things in FM are complex but pressing isn't one of them sadly, its very black and white. It's all or nothing with little variation and it doesn't matter what you try and do pressing is the same, you can't create a different style of it.

Hopefully that changes for future FM editions though.

[Scrench]

Setting up opposition instructions is the only thing that helped me create some form of more consistent high press, even counterpress sometimes. Always close down and tackle hard on the enemy backline will see your players engage them quicker and in more organised fashion.

[Cleon]

7 minutes ago, Scrench said:

Setting up opposition instructions is the only thing that helped me create some form of more consistent high press, even counterpress sometimes. Always close down and tackle hard on the enemy backline will see your players engage them quicker and in more organised fashion.

Always close down only really impacts the zone the player enters in though, so isn't really counter pressing. It just means that every player when close to him will always go to close down when the so called zone is activated. The same with hard tackling it just means the player will will challenge for the ball even if its only 10% in his favour of winning the tackle for example. That's not any form of pressing at all.

To create any kind of pressing system you have to have the team working as a unit, OI's don't really do this in the sense that players don't cover the space vacated by the player closing down heavily.

[jc577]

3 hours ago, Cleon said:

The ME is limited with pressing full stop imo. In FM terms pressing is all or nothing. Sure people believe they can create different pressing styles but really you can't, we don't have enough options and settings to create a sophisticated pressing system. A lot of things in FM are complex but pressing isn't one of them sadly, its very black and white. It's all or nothing with little variation and it doesn't matter what you try and do pressing is the same, you can't create a different style of it.

That's a real shame - but I thought as much. Here's hoping FM18 will give us that bit more flexibility when it comes to pressing, as there are so many different ways to execute it. 

 

10 minutes ago, Scrench said:

Setting up opposition instructions is the only thing that helped me create some form of more consistent high press, even counterpress sometimes. Always close down and tackle hard on the enemy backline will see your players engage them quicker and in more organised fashion.

Have you had success using opposition instructions to guide the opposition in a certain direction? For example, when the opposition CB's have the ball from a goal kick, my strikers apply pressure and use their cover shadows to block off passes through the middle - forcing their CB's to either play the ball back to their keeper or out wide to the full-backs. If the latter option is chosen then we press heavily using the flanks as an extra man. 

[jc577]

9 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Always close down only really impacts the zone the player enters in though, so isn't really counter pressing. It just means that every player when close to him will always go to close down when the so called zone is activated. The same with hard tackling it just means the player will will challenge for the ball even if its only 10% in his favour of winning the tackle for example. That's not any form of pressing at all.

To create any kind of pressing system you have to have the team working as a unit, OI's don't really do this in the sense that players don't cover the space vacated by the player closing down heavily.

I also think it's very rare to see your side win the ball back by outnumbering the opposition in small areas of the pitch - in my experience there just isn't any co-ordination. 

[Scrench]

1 minute ago, jc577 said:

Have you had success using opposition instructions to guide the opposition in a certain direction? For example, when the opposition CB's have the ball from a goal kick, my strikers apply pressure and use their cover shadows to block off passes through the middle - forcing their CB's to either play the ball back to their keeper or out wide to the full-backs. If the latter option is chosen then we press heavily using the flanks as an extra man. 

I usually show them to the side where the weaker full back plays or just generally out wide and lot of the times it works, you can see how the player modifies his running direction in order to force it wide. The cover shadow usage however is not the most effective in the ME, it's almos non-existent, sometimes the players use it correctly, most of the time they just run at the ball carrier just for the sake of it, without blocking any passing lane, especially in the middle of the pitch.

12 minutes ago, Cleon said:

Always close down only really impacts the zone the player enters in though, so isn't really counter pressing. It just means that every player when close to him will always go to close down when the so called zone is activated. The same with hard tackling it just means the player will will challenge for the ball even if its only 10% in his favour of winning the tackle for example. That's not any form of pressing at all.

To create any kind of pressing system you have to have the team working as a unit, OI's don't really do this in the sense that players don't cover the space vacated by the player closing down heavily.

You are right, but OIs do help a lot to put pressure on specific players in order to force a long ball or a mistake. Using only close down more/much more with a higher mentality setting won't allow even this little customization. I tried using mark tighter on enemy midfielders but it did more harm than good, so yeah, pressing in FM is generally quite inefficient and relies more on luck than good co-ordination.

[jc577]

5 minutes ago, Scrench said:

I usually show them to the side where the weaker full back plays or just generally out wide and lot of the times it works, you can see how the player modifies his running direction in order to force it wide. The cover shadow usage however is not the most effective in the ME, it's almos non-existent, sometimes the players use it correctly, most of the time they just run at the ball carrier just for the sake of it, without blocking any passing lane, especially in the middle of the pitch.

Interesting.. how do you do this exactly? Do you show centre-backs onto their stronger foot so that they pass to the flanks?

[Scrench]

Just now, jc577 said:

Interesting.. how do you do this exactly? Do you show centre-backs onto their stronger foot so that they pass to the flanks?

The right CB to his right foot the left CB to his left foot.

If i want to direct the play to a specific side than i show both of them to the same side.

Against a 3 CB system i've not found a good solution so far

[Columnarius]

The original post for this thread was as follows:

On 3/12/2017 at 01:42, jc577 said:

Are counter pressing and possession football the same thing in fm17 in regard to how to set up a tactic? Currently trying to implement this in my Fulham save with a 4-4-2 but having some difficulty. 

So far we have primarily discussed how one would set up and what limitations exist with regards to the defensive part of counter pressing.

Although we briefly went into possible roles for a specific example (Schimdt"s), I think there is more to talk through about what counter pressing means once you win back the ball vs. possession football.

I see counter pressing as typically looking to exploit a counter attack, send runners forward quickly, and play a fast-paced vertical passing game.  To me that calls for an attacking mentality when possible.  If I recall correctly, the attacking mentality includes a higher likelihood of counter attacking when players believe there is an opportunity compared to control or balanced.  Also, when a counter attack is not on, the tempo is fast and players further up the field will play  more direct.  That feels more like counter pressing to me than a counter mentality or even a control mentality.

On the other hand, I see possession differently.  When winning the ball, there is much greater chance the team will want to cautiously re-build the attack and move it side to side patiently waiting for an opportunity to present itself.  To me this calls for a Control or even a Counter mentality (with less direct passing PIs for the more defensive players who otherwise would play more direct on a counter mentality).

Do others agree on these points?

[Jrddrkly]

As far as I am aware counter pressing and possessional football are two completely different concepts. Counter Pressing football aims to win back possession while the opponent is in the transitional stage between their defense and attack and in doing so leaving a team much less structured. To exploit this you must get the ball forward and attack as quickly as possible which is why a counter press only lasts for a couple of seconds before the team drops back into their defensive shape waiting for the next pressing trigger (Think Klopp's Liverpool)

Possessional football looks to build attacks by dragging the opposition around and out of the position and exploit the spaces made with through balls and passes. While a system like this may have a high press it is not a counter press as such as passing the ball around after winning the counter press would negate the advantage of winning the ball back while the other team is in their transitional stage. (Think Pep's Barca)

[Scrench]

Posession is a by-product of counterpressing as you limit the time the opposition can have on the ball and eventually force a turnover.

How you use the ball after the turnover is a completely different thing. Klopp goes with a more direct style, counter attacking more often however this is because they employ a specific brand of counterpressing, with nearby players rushing down the ball carrier and aiming to win the ball back. With having the ball won back earlier, and higher up the pitch the distance to goal is much shorter and with possible numerical and more importantly dynamical superiority they can cut through the enemy with a fast, vertical approach.

The teams of Guardiola employ a passing lane oriented approach, where they aim to press the pass, rather than swarming the ball carrier. So the pass is usually made but to the wrong place, therefore the team get the ball back in a deeper position, and the players have much bigger distances between them than is the previous example so counter attacking is pointless, and building a more structured attack is preferable, thus leading to the possession style you were saying.

Both of them use a counterpressing style but the implementation is vastly different.

[yonko]

4 hours ago, Scrench said:

Posession is a by-product of counterpressing as you limit the time the opposition can have on the ball and eventually force a turnover.

How you use the ball after the turnover is a completely different thing. Klopp goes with a more direct style, counter attacking more often however this is because they employ a specific brand of counterpressing, with nearby players rushing down the ball carrier and aiming to win the ball back. With having the ball won back earlier, and higher up the pitch the distance to goal is much shorter and with possible numerical and more importantly dynamical superiority they can cut through the enemy with a fast, vertical approach.

The teams of Guardiola employ a passing lane oriented approach, where they aim to press the pass, rather than swarming the ball carrier. So the pass is usually made but to the wrong place, therefore the team get the ball back in a deeper position, and the players have much bigger distances between them than is the previous example so counter attacking is pointless, and building a more structured attack is preferable, thus leading to the possession style you were saying.

Both of them use a counterpressing style but the implementation is vastly different.

Very true.

As @Rashidi has said, Klopp's pressing style is easy to represent in FM with instructions. Guardiola's style is much more complicated and very difficult (re: impossible) to represent in FM terms. Pep's style is about compressing the space, denying options and forcing opposition into difficult choices & traps to turn the ball over. In addition, while in possession, the players are positioned so they can apply this pressure immediately for 6 seconds and then retreat if unsuccessful. The 6 seconds rule we will never be able to recreate in FM. But with a combination of Play Narrower, Higher D-Line, Offside Trap, Tight Marking, show to specific side/foot via OIs and individual closing down via PIs (TI closing down = sometimes), we can get very close to this pressing style.

[Jrddrkly]

10 hours ago, Scrench said:

Posession is a by-product of counterpressing as you limit the time the opposition can have on the ball and eventually force a turnover.

How you use the ball after the turnover is a completely different thing. Klopp goes with a more direct style, counter attacking more often however this is because they employ a specific brand of counterpressing, with nearby players rushing down the ball carrier and aiming to win the ball back. With having the ball won back earlier, and higher up the pitch the distance to goal is much shorter and with possible numerical and more importantly dynamical superiority they can cut through the enemy with a fast, vertical approach.

The teams of Guardiola employ a passing lane oriented approach, where they aim to press the pass, rather than swarming the ball carrier. So the pass is usually made but to the wrong place, therefore the team get the ball back in a deeper position, and the players have much bigger distances between them than is the previous example so counter attacking is pointless, and building a more structured attack is preferable, thus leading to the possession style you were saying.

Both of them use a counterpressing style but the implementation is vastly different.

Understood, but that doesn't mean that Guardiola implemented a counter-pressing system. Just because a system involves pressing doesn't make it a counter-pressing system. The aim of counter-pressing is to win the ball back as high up the pitch as possible and use it to launch an attack whilst the opponent is out of position. Tiki-Taka on the other hand aims to stretch the opposition and exploit the space created by doing this. Whilst sharing similarities in their systems Tiki Taka and Counter-Pressing are two different philosophies.

[Columnarius]

So in summary, you can't really achieve the defensive side of counter pressing in FM at the moment but....I believe the answer to the opening post is something like this:

Counter Press

While on Defense:

• Upon losing the ball, press the opposing player with the ball with 2-3 defenders and tackle aggressively to win the ball back
  • Play a top-heavy team formation (4-4-2 with AML/AMR or 4-2-3-1, etc.) so you have bodies to press high up the field
  • Set team instructions to play narrow
  • Set team instructions to high defensive line
  • Set team instructions to play the offside trap
  • Set player instructions to close down often or players in the AM / F stratas
  • Set team instruction to prevent short GK distribution
  • Set opponent instructions to close down always for opposing players in the DM / D / S / GK strats
• If you don't win the ball quickly then fall back into your normal defensive shape
  • Keep closing down team instruction at normal
  • Do not instruct your DM / D players to close down often (depending on the team shape, you may want to instruct your WB to close down often)

While on Offense:

• Play an aggressive mentality such as Attacking so that you either counter frequently or you play a more vertical passing game
• Maintain a high Tempo

Possession Football

While on Defense:

• Upon losing the ball, press the opposing player with the ball with defenders who are positioned to block passing lanes in order to force a poor pass
  • Play a team formation where players can press passing lanes (4-3-3 I believe gets close to achieving this due to the forward and AML/R converging from the left and right with one of the CMs directly in front of the opponent)
  • Set team instructions to play narrow
  • Set team instructions to high defensive line
  • Set team instructions to play the offside trap
  • Set player instructions to close down often or players in the AM / F stratas
  • Set team instruction to prevent short GK distribution
  • Set opponent instructions to close down always for opposing players in the DM / D / S / GK strats
  • Set opponent instructions to show onto the foot you prefer the opponent be forced into in order to turn away from their best passing chances)
• Ensure you contain if the opponent avoids your press
  • Keep closing down team instruction at normal
  • Instruct DMs or Defensive CM to hold position and consider closing down less
  • Consider instruction CDs to close down less

While on Offense:

• Play a control, balanced or counter mentality
• Play a fluid or very fluid team shape to create vertical compactness between players
• Play shorter passes
• Play out from the back
• Avoid risky passes by your defensive players and encourage them to play short, patient passes from side to side in order to move / open holes in your opponent's defensive shape
• Give your attacking players more creativity and directness so they can express their flair in the final third once an opening has been breached

[Scrench]

12 hours ago, Jrddrkly said:

Understood, but that doesn't mean that Guardiola implemented a counter-pressing system. Just because a system involves pressing doesn't make it a counter-pressing system. The aim of counter-pressing is to win the ball back as high up the pitch as possible and use it to launch an attack whilst the opponent is out of position. Tiki-Taka on the other hand aims to stretch the opposition and exploit the space created by doing this. Whilst sharing similarities in their systems Tiki Taka and Counter-Pressing are two different philosophies.

Counter pressing aims to regain posession as quickly as possible after losing the ball. It doesn't mean the team will win it back high up the pitch, as forcing an aimless long ball is just as succesful. Counter pressing is a transitional style, it affects how the team goes from attacking to defending. Upon losing the ball, the traditional way is to fall back to your defensive shape, the transitioning means that the players move to the defensive shape. Counter pressing is independent from a teams defensive shape, it happens between attacking and defending, aka in the transition phase. How a team counterpresses can be different from team to team as it has at least 3-4 official variants (man-oriented, leeway, passing lane oriented, etc.). To launch an attack whilst the opponent is out of position is called counter attacking, it is also independent from counter pressing, while for example in a leeway counter pressing(swarming the ball carrier) counter attacks have a naturally higher occurance because of the huge dynamic advantage. In a passing lane oriented approach positional superiority is the main advantage over the opposition which leads to a more posession style of attacking play. The best example is as usual Klopp vs Guardiola. Both of them use counter pressing, but differently. A high press is usually part of these systems as well because they have numbers up front by default, so even if the counterpress fails, or the opponent is building out from the back the hunt for the ball can go on.

Spielverlagerung has an excellent article on the matter, which is far more accurate and detailed than i can ever be, I highly recommend it: http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/10/07/counter-or-gegenpressing/

Side note: Don't use Tiki-taka please, it hurts my eyes and my soul 

[Rashidi]

9 hours ago, Columnarius said:

Set team instructions to play narrow

How does this help with counter pressing?

[MBarbaric]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

How does this help with counter pressing?

i guess the logic is that the team that plays narrow would be closer together while playing and closer together once they lose the ball. Theoretically, that would allow them to instantly press in higher numbers than if they were further apart. not sure how it works in ME but that would be a reasonable premise I guess. 

[Columnarius]

 

9 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

i guess the logic is that the team that plays narrow would be closer together while playing and closer together once they lose the ball. Theoretically, that would allow them to instantly press in higher numbers than if they were further apart. not sure how it works in ME but that would be a reasonable premise I guess. 

Exactly.  Now again - several of us (and I agree) have pointed out that you can't fully mirror this in the match engine.

That said, I've read (and it was pointed out several times in this thread by others) that coaches to counter press think of the field in vertical halves (or even quarters), direct an opponent into one or the other and press tightly within that vertical half space.  When most of the players invade one vertical half, they concede the other half, exposing them to someone making a fantastic ball across the field.  But most players can't do that when rushed by multiple defenders and instead they either try to shield the ball or make a bad pass.

The article Scrench linked to is an example of this in its first visual.  I believe you will get that kind of pressing of one side of the field when you play narrow and/or play more narrow formations.

@Rashidi, you probably you see that in your 4-1-3-2 or 4-3-1-2 formations, right?

[Jrddrkly]

On 9/20/2017 at 12:01, Scrench said:

Counter pressing aims to regain posession as quickly as possible after losing the ball. It doesn't mean the team will win it back high up the pitch, as forcing an aimless long ball is just as succesful. Counter pressing is a transitional style, it affects how the team goes from attacking to defending. Upon losing the ball, the traditional way is to fall back to your defensive shape, the transitioning means that the players move to the defensive shape. Counter pressing is independent from a teams defensive shape, it happens between attacking and defending, aka in the transition phase. How a team counterpresses can be different from team to team as it has at least 3-4 official variants (man-oriented, leeway, passing lane oriented, etc.). To launch an attack whilst the opponent is out of position is called counter attacking, it is also independent from counter pressing, while for example in a leeway counter pressing(swarming the ball carrier) counter attacks have a naturally higher occurance because of the huge dynamic advantage. In a passing lane oriented approach positional superiority is the main advantage over the opposition which leads to a more posession style of attacking play. The best example is as usual Klopp vs Guardiola. Both of them use counter pressing, but differently. A high press is usually part of these systems as well because they have numbers up front by default, so even if the counterpress fails, or the opponent is building out from the back the hunt for the ball can go on.

Spielverlagerung has an excellent article on the matter, which is far more accurate and detailed than i can ever be, I highly recommend it: http://spielverlagerung.com/2014/10/07/counter-or-gegenpressing/

Side note: Don't use Tiki-taka please, it hurts my eyes and my soul 

Ahh right, I think I might have got my wires mixed up with whats called what. Thanks for straightening that out for me. on a quick side note; thanks for the link to that article. Was a really interesting read